The Force User (Jedi/ Sith/ Kid in TLJ with Broom) Build

[CMCC]

Anyway, it's interesting to me that you say you're "creating a single multi-class build option." What does that mean? If I want to play, I don't know, Qui-Gon Jin or Mace Windu or Adam Driver or some other Jedi who (as far as I recall) didn't have any special droid affinities, am I supposed to skip the Artificer levels, or take them anyway and just ignore the robot buddy abilities?

I would still take a min of 1-2 level in artificer for the sci-fi feel and infusions, but ideally you would just take armorer and flavor the gauntlets as a lightsaber. If you're going the Sith route this is a fairly solid option as they often have armor with high tech.

I still don't get why you'd pick wizard over, say, sorcerer or even cleric. The Force is CLEARLY not based on scrolls and spellbooks, and it's not just a "Jedi are dumb" joke to say that it's not intelligence-based. I'd say it's almost certainly wisdom-based, with the zen flavor, but you could make an argument for charisma, especially for Sith.

As we learned in TLJ, the Jedi have used books as an integral part of their teachings for generations. I would flavor my spellbook as one of those books - referenced when one wants to use a new or unfamiliar power. We know that force users rely heavily on ritual casting - as meditating and casting spells has been seen often since Empire.

Wisdom doesn't work for a Force build in 5e. Although I would agree that you should have a positive wisdom score - it shouldn't be a dump stat. But if you tell me Luke is a wise character in Hope and Empire, I'd probably laugh. To use the force you certainly don't need to be wise. But the films play on the old, wise religious master tropes - as mentioned above.

Charisma doesn't work for me either for the same reasons. Most Jedi just aren't particularly charismatic.

My build would be something like:
1. Convince your DM to let you play a Psi Warrior based in Cha instead of Int.

That's not RAW, so personally, I'm not interested in it. If it works for you > have at it.

Unlike the OP's combo, you don't have to explicitly gimp your character by refusing to prepare a ton of non-Jedi-like spells you have access to - just pick Jedi- (or Sith-) appropriate spells and go nuts!

I honestly don't know how picking jedi/sith spells with a sorcerer would differ from doing the same with a wizard. I'm probably missing something though.

Star Wars as a story was literally started by a princess trusting a droid with the macguffin and sending them a mission to find a wizard.

That the droid had to bamboozle a young man into removing their don't-escape device after having been sold in slavery doesn't change that.

The inciting incident of the story is Luke tinkering with R2 and finding the message. It's a plot device.

Jedi draw their power from Intuition / Wisdom and only people who draw from this power can learn to fight like them. Those who fall from the path of Wisdom become Sith.

The fighting arts of the Jedi are ancient and secret. They follow the old ways.

The Jedi seek peace and only resort to violence as a last resort.

Cool. Thanks. Good flavor here for those who want to go with Jedi.

[JediMaster]

The Wisdom based build represents the secret and ancient fighting art of the Jedi. An unarmored yet high AC Mobile Pole Arm Master wielding a Green Flame Blade/Booming Blade Shillelagh and a force pull (reflavored Thorn Whip/ Gust/ Gust of Wind/ Mage Hand/ Unseen Servant/ Bigby's Hand/ Telekinesis, etc.).

Animated skeletons, Tiny Servants (even Familiar) can be flavored as Droids. Give them Magic Stones.

Luke doesn't become a Jedi Master by getting a high Intelligence and dexterity. He becomes a Jedi Master by acquiring Wisdom.

Jedi don't require armor to fight. Monks unarmored defense is almost a requisite to being a Jedi.

[ZRN]

As we learned in TLJ, the Jedi have used books as an integral part of their teachings for generations. I would flavor my spellbook as one of those books - referenced when one wants to use a new or unfamiliar power. We know that force users rely heavily on ritual casting - as meditating and casting spells has been seen often since Empire.

One aspect of the Force that the films (and other media) have been pretty explicit on is how you learn to use it. It's pretty much ALL zen-master tropes. Yoda doesn't have a secret library in his swamp house to train Luke. You can reflavor stuff however works for you, but I don't know why you'd rather take the wizard class, which is loaded with fluff and mechanics that don't add up, than the sorcerer, which at least has simpler mechanics and fewer spells known to deal with.

Wisdom doesn't work for a Force build in 5e. Although I would agree that you should have a positive wisdom score - it shouldn't be a dump stat. But if you tell me Luke is a wise character in Hope and Empire, I'd probably laugh. To use the force you certainly don't need to be wise. But the films play on the old, wise religious master tropes - as mentioned above.

Charisma doesn't work for me either for the same reasons. Most Jedi just aren't particularly charismatic.

Okay, they're definitely not smart - the entire Jedi Council got outsmarted by some pretty dumb ploys in the prequels and Clone Wars. The whole zen-master thing is traditionally associated with wisdom - thus, monks - and you could argue that especially Sith have the whole passion/willpower thing that's associated with e.g. warlocks and sorcerers as charisma.

I honestly don't know how picking jedi/sith spells with a sorcerer would differ from doing the same with a wizard. I'm probably missing something though.

Just that the wizard class can learn an unlimited number of spells, and pick new spells every day, so it's weird if your guy refuses to cast anything but Telekinesis and Lightning Bolt.

[CMCC]

One aspect of the Force that the films (and other media) have been pretty explicit on is how you learn to use it. It's pretty much ALL zen-master tropes. Yoda doesn't have a secret library in his swamp house to train Luke. You can reflavor stuff however works for you, but I don't know why you'd rather take the wizard class, which is loaded with fluff and mechanics that don't add up, than the sorcerer, which at least has simpler mechanics and fewer spells known to deal with.

Jedi and sith must study and train HARD to get their powers. AND the power runs through their veins. Honestly I think Sorcerer and Wizard both have non-mechanical aspects that work well and also don't work well. Again, we do know that the Jedi have books that they are presumably studying. We have no idea if Yoda had books in his hut. I'm not sure why you assume he didn't. But even if he didn't, Yoda would have memorized all the important books in his 900 years life.

Sorcerer would be great if it multi-classed with psi-warrior and artificer. I'd definitely consider it. I'm also not trying to build some underpowered Sorcadin variant.

Okay, they're definitely not smart - the entire Jedi Council got outsmarted by some pretty dumb ploys in the prequels and Clone Wars. The whole zen-master thing is traditionally associated with wisdom - thus, monks - and you could argue that especially Sith have the whole passion/willpower thing that's associated with e.g. warlocks and sorcerers as charisma.

See below. RP as you see fit. Plenty of book smart people can be out-maneuvered in political warfare. This is honestly a non-issue for me. If it bothers others, they are welcome to try other things.

Just that the wizard class can learn an unlimited number of spells, and pick new spells every day, so it's weird if your guy refuses to cast anything but Telekinesis and Lightning Bolt.

Apologies if that was your impression. This character is using GFB or shadow blade (as a lightsaber stand in), spirit shroud for the force valor ability, animate objects, telekinesis, clairvoyance, divination, enhance ability, charm everything, hold person, levitate, lightning spells, detect thoughts, wall of force and literally dozens of other spells as listed in the sheet above.

Will it be the strongest use of wizard spells? Probably not. We're leaving out Polymorph, greater invisibility (although you can argue this can be used to), teleportation spells (misty step, thunder step, dimension door), among other standout spells.

That's an issue with the force, not the build.

The Wisdom based build represents the secret and ancient fighting art of the Jedi. An unarmored yet high AC Mobile Pole Arm Master wielding a Green Flame Blade/Booming Blade Shillelagh and a force pull (reflavored Thorn Whip/ Gust/ Gust of Wind/ Mage Hand/ Unseen Servant/ Bigby's Hand/ Telekinesis, etc.).

Yes you can acquire some force abilities with other classes. Are you able to get MORE than what I've provided with any wisdom build?

Animated skeletons, Tiny Servants (even Familiar) can be flavored as Droids. Give them Magic Stones.

Or get an actual droid.

Luke doesn't become a Jedi Master by getting a high Intelligence and dexterity. He becomes a Jedi Master by acquiring Wisdom.

You're welcome to increase your wisdom score via ASI or other means. The idea that our in game force user must use the in game wisdom stat is a very strange one to get hung up on. It's maybe the least important part of the build.

RP the gaining of abilities as you see fit. If you want to RP getting wiser. Do that. There is nothing in the rules against that. The wisdom you're talking about is not the wisdom stat of D&D.

Jedi don't require armor to fight. Monks unarmored defense is almost a requisite to being a Jedi.

Old Jedi did use armor and current Sith use armor. Unarmored defense is not important - and if you must use it, simply take the mage armor spell and max dex. You're at 18!

[Damon_Tor]

There's a lot in this thread about what's required to play a Jedi or Sith or whatever, what's vital to the concept. Frankly, I don't think there's any one class level that ALL force users would have in common. A pure bladesinger would make a fine Yoda-style Jedi without any multiclassing. A Psi Warrior would work great out of the box for many of the less cerebral Jedi. I do tend to think of Jedi as Int not Wis: they are way too easy to trick to have Wis worth a damn. The things they are hilariously bad at are insight-related: things like "is my Padawan banging the Senator he's obviously banging?" or "Who could possibly be the big bad evil guy who is manipulating everybody? Oh Hello Chancellor Palpatine, how lovely to see you." They have a variety of extra-sensory abilities, but that's totally in keeping with the various divination spells available to wizards, and I would argue that a Jedi built primarily for these sort of abilities would be best served by a Divination Wizard than anything a cleric or druid could offer.

Sith, however, I think are more likely to be charisma casters: they lean on talent (sorcerers) or act as power-parasites (warlocks) or simply rely too much on their emotions with the best of intentions (ironically, paladins). What we've seen of Sith seem to back up the idea that they lean heavily into charisma: Palpatine and Dooku certainly maxed out the stat, and even a blunt instrument like Maul managed to build himself a criminal empire. Anakin's natural talent and impatience with study marks him as more sorcerer than wizard, and paladin levels for his martial skills seem appropriate enough.

[JediMaster]

There's a lot in this thread about what's required to play a Jedi or Sith or whatever, what's vital to the concept. Frankly, I don't think there's any one class level that ALL force users would have in common. A pure bladesinger would make a fine Yoda-style Jedi without any multiclassing. A Psi Warrior would work great out of the box for many of the less cerebral Jedi. I do tend to think of Jedi as Int not Wis: they are way too easy to trick to have Wis worth a damn. The things they are hilariously bad at are insight-related: things like "is my Padawan banging the Senator he's obviously banging?" or "Who could possibly be the big bad evil guy who is manipulating everybody? Oh Hello Chancellor Palpatine, how lovely to see you." They have a variety of extra-sensory abilities, but that's totally in keeping with the various divination spells available to wizards, and I would argue that a Jedi built primarily for these sort of abilities would be best served by a Divination Wizard than anything a cleric or druid could offer.

Sith, however, I think are more likely to be charisma casters: they lean on talent (sorcerers) or act as power-parasites (warlocks) or simply rely too much on their emotions with the best of intentions (ironically, paladins). What we've seen of Sith seem to back up the idea that they lean heavily into charisma: Palpatine and Dooku certainly maxed out the stat, and even a blunt instrument like Maul managed to build himself a criminal empire. Anakin's natural talent and impatience with study marks him as more sorcerer than wizard, and paladin levels for his martial skills seem appropriate enough.

Palpatine's Deception skill simply surpassed the Jedi's Insight skill. Or did it?? After all, Darth Vader was a mole for the Jedi in the end.

[CMCC]

Sith, however, I think are more likely to be charisma casters: they lean on talent (sorcerers) or act as power-parasites (warlocks) or simply rely too much on their emotions with the best of intentions (ironically, paladins). What we've seen of Sith seem to back up the idea that they lean heavily into charisma: Palpatine and Dooku certainly maxed out the stat, and even a blunt instrument like Maul managed to build himself a criminal empire. Anakin's natural talent and impatience with study marks him as more sorcerer than wizard, and paladin levels for his martial skills seem appropriate enough.

What, mechanically speaking, would any of the charisma casting classes bring to the table that wizard doesn't already handle? I agree with everything you write lore and RP wise, but which actual mechanics, abilities, skills, spells etc are handled better with a CHA caster.

If you are going the route of the high deception type sith, you can still max INT, have a high CHA and take deception/persuasion skills.

This multi-class doesn't preclude that.

[ZRN]

What, mechanically speaking, would any of the charisma casting classes bring to the table that wizard doesn't already handle? I agree with everything you write lore and RP wise, but which actual mechanics, abilities, skills, spells etc are handled better with a CHA caster.

Persuade and Intimidate.

Subtle Spell is pretty important - Jedi don’t use magic words when they channel the Force.

Quickened Spell, Twinned Spell... pretty much any metamagic is both mechanically useful and situationally Jedi-like. Heck, in a pinch the new sorcery point to reroll mechanic from Tashas is Luke “using the Force” to shoot the Death Star.

[Damon_Tor]

What, mechanically speaking, would any of the charisma casting classes bring to the table that wizard doesn't already handle? I agree with everything you write lore and RP wise, but which actual mechanics, abilities, skills, spells etc are handled better with a CHA caster.

If you are going the route of the high deception type sith, you can still max INT, have a high CHA and take deception/persuasion skills.

This multi-class doesn't preclude that.

Oh it's purely a lore argument. Int = Hard work, Cha = Inherent power. Mechanically there's not enough difference between a sorcerer and a wizard to matter: sorcerers aren't lacking any spells that are critical to either concept IIRC. They lack a dedicated melee subclass, and the bladesinger is a really strong Jedi candidate, but then a sorcerer can MC warlock for hexblade and do quite well.

[CMCC]

Persuade and Intimidate.

You can take those with your background.

And take the metamagic initiate feat if you really want subtle spell. Force users don't mutter words, but they certainly all have a somatic component. So, that's kind of a wash for me. Material components can be taken care of with a focus (better yet, get a ruby of the war mage).

[ZRN]

You can take those with your background.

And take the metamagic initiate feat if you really want subtle spell. Force users don't mutter words, but they certainly all have a somatic component. So, that's kind of a wash for me. Material components can be taken care of with a focus (better yet, get a ruby of the war mage).

I guess it's a matter of focus/priorities. Glancing at your chart, it looks like a Psi Warrior 15/Sorcerer5 could do any force power except for mind control and force projection. You could dial it to a PW11/Sor9 if you want a heavier focus on force stuff. You're more MAD, but you also have 2-3 more ASIs, so maybe that makes up for it. (And it's not like a no-armor force user like... most of them other than Vader can afford to have bad dexterity.)

[CMCC]

I guess it's a matter of focus/priorities. Glancing at your chart, it looks like a Psi Warrior 15/Sorcerer5 could do any force power except for mind control and force projection. You could dial it to a PW11/Sor9 if you want a heavier focus on force stuff. You're more MAD, but you also have 2-3 more ASIs, so maybe that makes up for it. (And it's not like a no-armor force user like... most of them other than Vader can afford to have bad dexterity.)

I guess I don’t get why you would want to give up the flexibility of having all access to all force powers and go MAD with INT and CHA when you don’t have to.

Why wouldn’t you just do a PW 15/ wiz 5 build or 11/9 if you really don’t want to go with an artificer.

[Zaile]

You can take those with your background.

And take the metamagic initiate feat if you really want subtle spell. Force users don't mutter words, but they certainly all have a somatic component. So, that's kind of a wash for me. Material components can be taken care of with a focus (better yet, get a ruby of the war mage).

Force users are some of the chattiest people in Star Wars. Verbal composts = witty banter. All their mind-affecting powers are literally then saying what target is to do.

I second the Bladesinger, even comes with a built-in dark-saber.

Overall the Soulknife and Psi warrior are just "meh." Could make a descent multi-class PW 5,7 or 11/SK 3-9. Still neither class is gives more force-user powers than a caster.

[Damon_Tor]

Force users are some of the chattiest people in Star Wars. Verbal composts = witty banter. All their mind-affecting powers are literally then saying what target is to do.

I second the Bladesinger, even comes with a built-in dark-saber.

Overall the Soulknife and Psi warrior are just "meh." Could make a descent multi-class PW 5,7 or 11/SK 3-9. Still neither class is gives more force-user powers than a caster.

You don't necessarily need more powers, it all depends on which sort of force user you're looking to create. Someone like Maul would be perfectly happy as a Psi Warrior, where all you really need to do him justice is martial prowess and strong TK abilities.

[Quietus]

Old Jedi did use armor and current Sith use armor. Unarmored defense is not important - and if you must use it, simply take the mage armor spell and max dex and the defensive fighting style. You're at 19!

Unfortunately, Defensive fighting style doesn't work with Mage Armor. The fighting style requires that you wear armor, and mage armor requires that you don't.


I appreciate what this thread is trying to do, but I think it's just one option and is trying to run itself a little too ragged in an attempt to hit every checkbox. Very few (no?) Jedi knew every power, if memory serves. Beyond this, there are absolutely some Jedi who were more focused in one area or another. You could create a single classed caster with no Extra Attack, relatively few melee abilities, no droid, and still be a Jedi. You're just a Jedi who doesn't practice with their lightsaber, and instead focuses on the more esoteric aspects of the Force, and relies on Force powers to do what needs to be done. On the other end of the spectrum, as noted, Maul is a powerful Force user, but is very well represented by straight up Psi Warrior. He's a blunt instrument, made of raw force and martial talent. He doesn't have all of these Force powers, just the ones that have an immediate, palpable, and intimidating effect. Mostly Force Move.

The real trick is to say, "This is my build to represent Luke/Anakin Skywalker", and fit in powers to match that. Hell, if you've watched Rebels, you could probably get away with using some Ranger build to represent Ezra Bridger.

[Unoriginal]

I appreciate what this thread is trying to do, but I think it's just one option and is trying to run itself a little too ragged in an attempt to hit every checkbox. Very few (no?) Jedi knew every power, if memory serves. Beyond this, there are absolutely some Jedi who were more focused in one area or another. You could create a single classed caster with no Extra Attack, relatively few melee abilities, no droid, and still be a Jedi. You're just a Jedi who doesn't practice with their lightsaber, and instead focuses on the more esoteric aspects of the Force, and relies on Force powers to do what needs to be done. On the other end of the spectrum, as noted, Maul is a powerful Force user, but is very well represented by straight up Psi Warrior. He's a blunt instrument, made of raw force and martial talent. He doesn't have all of these Force powers, just the ones that have an immediate, palpable, and intimidating effect. Mostly Force Move.

The real trick is to say, "This is my build to represent Luke/Anakin Skywalker", and fit in powers to match that. Hell, if you've watched Rebels, you could probably get away with using some Ranger build to represent Ezra Bridger.

This is quite true. I had started a list of how to represent the different characters, maybe I should finish it.


Honestly something like being a Jedi would be best represented by a Faction or a Group Patron, with maybe a Background for "raised at the temple".

On the other end of the spectrum, as noted, Maul is a powerful Force user, but is very well represented by straight up Psi Warrior. He's a blunt instrument, made of raw force and martial talent. He doesn't have all of these Force powers, just the ones that have an immediate, palpable, and intimidating effect. Mostly Force Move.

I've argued and I'll still argue that Maul is best represented by Barbarian 2/Psi Warrior Fighter X.

[CMCC]

Unfortunately, Defensive fighting style doesn't work with Mage Armor. The fighting style requires that you wear armor, and mage armor requires that you don't.

Bleh. Off hand comment. Should have actually thought about it before posting. Hate when people do that. Edited.

The real trick is to say, "This is my build to represent Luke/Anakin Skywalker", and fit in powers to match that.

Obviously any individual build can be tweaked a bit, and there is very unlikely to be a build in the movies that you can't make with a combination of 1 or more of the classes and abilities/spells represented. If you want to go straight wizard - go straight wizard, but use my guide for the force powers. If you want to go straight fighter - do it, but use my guide to get the necessary force powers whenever possible (e.g. feats).

This is meant to be a broad guide for a generic force user. A specific force user will of course deviate due to specialization and character specifics.


As for the artificer dip that some people love and others seem to hate, well the perfect image to represent what we're doing here..

Spoiler: Spoilers for Mandalorian

Show

And yes, I know R2D2 didn't fight with Luke. He would have gotten slaughtered. I imagine you do the same thing when you're level 3 SD is by your side and you fight an Ancient Red Dragon.

And here are a bunch of times R2D2 helped out in combat situations. Sometimes with an attack. Other times by "mending" stuff. And others times by doing droid ****.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLmOteqmDYc

This is quite true. I had started a list of how to represent the different characters, maybe I should finish it.

If you do so, can you create a comprehensive list of each character's full abilities to see how closely we can match them?

I'd be very curious to see if there was any hard ability that you find (from the movies) that isn't covered in my force list.

[Unoriginal]

As for the artificer dip that some people love and others seem to hate, well the perfect image to represent what we're doing here..

Spoiler: Spoilers for Mandalorian

Show

Two separate adventurers working together, yes.

If you do so, can you create a comprehensive list of each character's full abilities to see how closely we can match them?

I can try, I'm not sure if you'd consider it comprehensive, though.

I'd be very curious to see if there was any hard ability that you find (from the movies) that isn't covered in my force list.

The idea is generally less that there are Force abilities that aren't covered by your list, and more that not every character needs all the abilities in your list.

[CMCC]

Two separate adventurers working together, yes.

You’re killing me on this one. Who is going to make r2d2 the D&D character? Wont ever happen. He’s a droid. A steel defender is the best match in the game.

I can try, I'm not sure if you'd consider it comprehensive, though.

The idea is generally less that there are Force abilities that aren't covered by your list, and more that not every character needs all the abilities in your list.

Totally agree.

That’s why the main post title isn’t specific to a person. Just a generic force user.

[masterjoda99]

You’re killing me on this one. Who is going to make r2d2 the D&D character? Wont ever happen. He’s a droid. A steel defender is the best match in the game.




Totally agree.

That’s why the main post title isn’t specific to a person. Just a generic force user.

I dunno man, warforged skill monkey build, plenty of folks would and have made r2d2 the D&D character. Methinks that that particular droid is a bad example...?

[Unoriginal]

You’re killing me on this one. Who is going to make r2d2 the D&D character? Wont ever happen. He’s a droid. A steel defender is the best match in the game.

A Warforged is, actually. If you want to go by Player options only.

[CMCC]

Warforged could possibly work for other droids like IG-11 or C3P0... but as r2d2? Strong disagree.

Again - he’s more akin to dr strange’s cape or Aladdin’s carpet than the other droids.

That said, I do want to see this R2D2 build and how it would not be awful.

[Damon_Tor]

Warforged could possibly work for other droids like IG-11 or C3P0... but as r2d2? Strong disagree.

Again - he’s more akin to dr strange’s cape or Aladdin’s carpet than the other droids.

That said, I do want to see this R2D2 build and how it would not be awful.

There was a webcomic at one point, "Darths and Droids" IIRC. In it, R2D2 was portrayed as the PC of an unrepentant powergamer who deliberately took a ton of weaknesses for this character (mute, no legs, no arms, etc) for minmaxing purposes. Doesn't really apply to 5e, which doesn't have a comparable flaws system.

I don't agree that Luke should be an Artificer so he can have a droid with him, though. If anything, use the the sidekick rules and make R2D2 a specialist or expert or whatever they called it. He's basically just a lockpicker/hacker/navigator skill monkey. Steel Defender doesn't really fit R2D2 at all.

[CMCC]

There was a webcomic at one point, "Darths and Droids" IIRC. In it, R2D2 was portrayed as the PC of an unrepentant powergamer who deliberately took a ton of weaknesses for this character (mute, no legs, no arms, etc) for minmaxing purposes. Doesn't really apply to 5e, which doesn't have a comparable flaws system.

I don't agree that Luke should be an Artificer so he can have a droid with him, though. If anything, use the the sidekick rules and make R2D2 a specialist or expert or whatever they called it. He's basically just a lockpicker/hacker/navigator skill monkey. Steel Defender doesn't really fit R2D2 at all.

He mends, distracts (e.g. provide disadvantage to attackers), defends, and has an attack. Seems fairly clear that it's the best fit in the game. Several people seem stuck on that because it's not a perfect fit. Again, the SD is NOT r2d2, it's just a sidekick drone.

Maybe Create Homunculus spell as a viable workaround to artificer, if you want to skip artificer. But that seems backwards (sequentially) to me.

BTW, thanks everyone for their opinions. Love it. Hopefully through disagreement we can arrive at some solid options for everyone.

[Unoriginal]

Again, the SD is NOT r2d2, it's just a sidekick drone.

Indeed. Which is why your repeated assertion that it's meant/a good way to represent R2-D2 puzzling.

[Quietus]

You’re killing me on this one. Who is going to make r2d2 the D&D character? Wont ever happen. He’s a droid. A steel defender is the best match in the game.

Looking at the official Star Wars game, droids are absolutely their own characters. You could represent droids via steel defender, sure. You could also represent them as characters. R2D2, C3PO, and Chopper are great examples of droids best represented via sidekicks or full on PCs, due to their strong personalities. SD is fine for the most generic of astromechs.

[CMCC]

Indeed. Which is why your repeated assertion that it's meant/a good way to represent R2-D2 puzzling.

He’s the most obvious example.

Looking at the official Star Wars game, droids are absolutely their own characters. You could represent droids via steel defender, sure. You could also represent them as characters. R2D2, C3PO, and Chopper are great examples of droids best represented via sidekicks or full on PCs, due to their strong personalities. SD is fine for the most generic of astromechs.

Yeah that could work too, but you lose the other benefits of artificer, so im not entirely sure it works better. But I’m sure it would work fine.

[Witty Username]

The divide between wizard(knowledge and study) and sorcerer(bloodline and talent) has started to bug me. It fundamentally assumes a wizard cannot have innate talent for magic or that a sorcerer cannot benefit from study. It also runs counter to how ability scores work, a high int wizard is measurably more talented than a low cha sorcerer. Not to mention Wizards get more passive effects where sorcerers get more active effects that cost resources making wizards feel more innately magical.

As for Jedi.
int makes sense because of knowledge and study.
wis make sense because of willpower and perception.
cha makes sense because... well cha is associated with innate power which fits force sensitive tropes.

I would say dealers choice, blade singer wizard, gloom stalker ranger, and hexblade are probably the best (multi-class before you start ripping out peoples ghosts). AT rogue is decent as well. Paladin is on theme but I feel divine smite is a bit overt for what force users tend to do. Cleric/monk would work but the domains aren't very cooperative, knowledge maybe?

[Unoriginal]

The divide between wizard(knowledge and study) and sorcerer(bloodline and talent) has started to bug me. It fundamentally assumes a wizard cannot have innate talent for magic or that a sorcerer cannot benefit from study. It also runs counter to how ability scores work, a high int wizard is measurably more talented than a low cha sorcerer.

It's not a question of talent, it's a question of power and where it comes from.

A talented Wizard still got their power by studying, while a smart, studious Sorcerer still got their power by being themselves.

[Witty Username]

It's not a question of talent, it's a question of power and where it comes from.

A talented Wizard still got their power by studying, while a smart, studious Sorcerer still got their power by being themselves.

Can anyone be a wizard?