New Dungeons & Dragons movie...?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Leaving aside how Hasbro has decided to Ride-Or-Die on the Realms, Eberron's technomagic is probably too sci-fi for a fantasy movie. Dark Sun might work for some small-scale Mad Max style stuff, but you won't build a multiverse on that. Ditto for Ravenloft and horror.

[Silly Name]

-snip-

For me it's because if those tropes aren't present (or at least toyed with or referenced), it wouldn't feel like a D&D movie. Perhaps a Forgotten Realms movie, but not a movie about Dungeons & Dragons.

That said, I do agree with your analysis for why it's unlikely it will happen, and that we're most likely getting a "straight" story set in the Realms.

[Anonymouswizard]

For me a lot of it is that they've tried a serious D&D film, multiple times, and at best reached the heights of 'okay'. Maybe a bit of silly is what's needed.

[Mordar]

...A few in jokes and references are to be expected (I assume), but you can't build a movie around things 90% of the audience have no connection or frame of reference to. Well, I mean, you can do that, you just won't make any money.

I think people need to take a more rational (or monetary) look at this. Is the goal to make money? Obviously the answer is yes. That eliminates a lot of ideas right there. Is the goal to start a franchise or shared universe? I have to assume it is. The IP is perfectly capable of supporting that. The Realms alone has over 200 novels (not that all of them are movie worthy, to be clear). Given the other two goals, is another goal to simulate playing the game? I don't think that's a given. As others have said, it is difficult (to be it mildly) to simulate a game that is different for everyone that plays it. And if it is the goal, towards what end? Selling more copies of 5E*? That would be very shortsighted. For one, it is unlikely to seriously move the needle on 5E sales. A decade of Marvel absolutely dominating the box office hasn't done anything to improve comic book sales., and reading those doesn't require lots of free time and a group of people that can reliably meet up. For another, the potential box office sales of a successful, ongoing series far outpaces any potential gain from moving more copies of 5E.

[SNIP]

Edit to add: I also don't think the right move is some "save the world" plot. Save the city/kingdom? Maybe. You don't have to have dragons (especially if you don't actually use the D&D name) if you make a compelling movie that doesn't need them. Waterdeep: City of Speldors is a story I feel could easily serve as the building blocks to a decent movie. It would need some work to have reasons to talk about/show things outside of Waterdeep and the plot probably needs work to be screen worthy, but it's self contained and doesn't have world shattering consequences. Build on that. Sometime down the road, make the Drizzt movie we all know they are dying to make.

Obviously lots snipped...

I think there will certainly be Easter eggs. It is in the GAMP (generally accepted movie principles) specifically to provide fan service without distracting or alienating non-fans walking in.

Firmly agree that any needle moving on RPG sales is strictly gravy. It would be revenue for an effectively distinct entity and could make a dent in the catering budget for a feature film. Definitely needs to be a standalone, but tying it to an IP will help mollify producers/investors as opposed to making a "generic fantasy epic".

Huge agreement on it not being a "save the world"...the one meta-element I hope they make use of is the idea of starting small. Big enough to be interested and visual, but small enough to have room to grow without massive escalation.

For me a lot of it is that they've tried a serious D&D film, multiple times, and at best reached the heights of 'okay'. Maybe a bit of silly is what's needed.

I'm...um...uncertain of a serious D&D film with anything other than a shoestring budget. The only feature was a buddy cop movie. Wrath of the Dragon (something) was direct release, I think (and maybe the one that reached "okay"), and Vile Darkness was again direct and maybe sorta okay.

I'm sure they'll try some MCU-style levity, but it'll probably fall flat because that seems to be pretty hard to manage.

- M

[Scarlet Knight]

Hmmm, what about a Galaxy Quest style movie?

Somehow the players at GenCon get mistaken for real heroes by a doddering wizard, but the world they get transported to is more Game of Thrones than Grey Hawk?

After a few horrible deaths they realize this is for real and basically have to metagame their way to escape?

That allows more comedy (which fits Pine) and all the D&D inside jokes. Since people mentioned Bards, you can have a villain drag a player to his Red Room, taunting the characters about the "sport" he has planned for her.

Before long she returns with the villain & several henchmen following like a puppies asking when they can see her again. When asked how this happened, she simply says: "Bard: name level."

[Spiderswims]

I'm a little surprised by the number of people with a dominant "D&D Slapstick" bent.

Unfortunately everyone, except a couple of serious players, everyone...the makers of D&D, movie writers, RPG writers, and the "common person" on the street all think D&D is ONLY: a wacky, goofy, slapstick game for kids and socially awkward overweight white loveless geeks. As seen in nearly any depiction of D&D ever. So unfortunately when making the movie, they will likely be "stuck" in this way of thinking. They are so deep in the rabbit hole of "this is the only way of things" that they would never consider anything else. Even the Lord of the Rings and related movies could resist this with things like "Goofy Gimily" and "surfboard elf".

So this leads to the goofy, slapstick fights too, so a lot less Braveheart or LotR and much more Hercules/Xena and Jackie Chan movies.

It would be a big deal for Wizards and all the people involved in the movie making to think outside this trap. Even though it would make sense from a business sense to show a diverse cast of player characters and make a SERIOUS fun movie....the chances are slim.

[Tyrant]

Unfortunately everyone, except a couple of serious players, everyone...the makers of D&D, movie writers, RPG writers, and the "common person" on the street all think D&D is ONLY: a wacky, goofy, slapstick game for kids and socially awkward overweight white loveless geeks. As seen in nearly any depiction of D&D ever. So unfortunately when making the movie, they will likely be "stuck" in this way of thinking. They are so deep in the rabbit hole of "this is the only way of things" that they would never consider anything else. Even the Lord of the Rings and related movies could resist this with things like "Goofy Gimily" and "surfboard elf".

I seriously doubt that the common person on the street thinks most of that about D&D. Most of the geek part, maybe (not sure why specifically white geeks). This is the kind of thing I meant about overestimating the cultural penetration of D&D. As for LotR, that is not even in the same ballpark of what we are talking about. Those movies had occasional moments of levity and some occasional silly moments (like surfing Legolas). Those things existed amid a very serious plot that was played completely straight and with no joking from the overwhelming majority of characters. Subject matter aside (given that it is fantasy), those were played as serious movies. We would be "go out and buy lottery tickets" lucky if we got that level of movie. I'm saying we need to avoid "Your Highness" level movies and people seem to think those would be a good idea for some reason.

[Hopeless]

I agree.

Now imagine this starts out as looking like a slapstick comedy until one of them is killed because they aren't taking this seriously.

For me what I'd like to see is if they go with a group transported from Earth to lets just call it the Realms but whilst say three of them are keen roleplayers, the two adults are former military veterans and have experienced warfare and the misery it brings.
The fifth is the Bobby of the group (the youngest) I'll go with an Evie because I liked the lead of the Fraser Mummy movie.

So they find a spell book and one of the roelplayers starts learning how to cast becoming the Presto but its a slow process another takes the Bard liking music and finding their own magic along the way.

Then they find out they're not the first such group to end up here, but unlike the others they have a common purpose the two adults want to get the kida home and when faced with the fact they can't all go home one of them chooses to stay behind making sure they make it home before as far as they're concerned facing certain death as the kids are returned to their parents with the remaining adult the US veteran grudgingly accepting their thanks as all are worried about the one they left behind.

To set up a sequel the last scenes after the credits reveals her walking out of the complex looking beaten up and stares down the army waiting for her.

"Okay either get out of my way or I go through you!" she glares starting walking forward using her new enchanted armour, shield and staff knowing she has little to no chance as her newly earned clerical abilities summon forth a wave of spirits to her defence!

[Silly Name]

I don't think anyone here is arguing in favour of d&d being depicted in media exclusively as goofy slapstick - but rather, embracing the campiness and silliness that often comes up during games.

Your average d&d group is a bunch of friends sitting at a table to have some fun, and this means that in-between delving in undead-infested ruins and foiling the plots of evil chancellors, they'll crack jokes and make puns and do generally silly stuff. And if you take all this out, you are left with a mostly generic fantasy movie.

Look at Baldur's Gate: Minsc and Boo are beloved characters, and despite being silly and humorous, they exist perfectly fine in a dark and serious storyline. There's tongue-in-cheek humour about the rules of the time, and references to the shared knowledge of d&d players.

I don't want an Avenger-style movie, either. Constantly quipping in battle and subsisting "witty" one-liners for plot and personality is not what I want. I don't want a poor attempt at replicating LotR, either: I love LotR, but d&d isn't Tolkien.

[Hopeless]

I don't want an Avenger-style movie, either. Constantly quipping in battle and subsisting "witty" one-liners for plot and personality is not what I want. I don't want a poor attempt at replicating LotR, either: I love LotR, but d&d isn't Tolkien.

Not any more.

It's been decades since it was released in print after all and over a decade since the movie trilogy.

[Eldan]

It's been 20 years, I'd quite like another series fantasy movie.

[Mordar]

Unfortunately everyone, except a couple of serious players, everyone...the makers of D&D, movie writers, RPG writers, and the "common person" on the street all think D&D is ONLY: a wacky, goofy, slapstick game for kids and socially awkward overweight white loveless geeks. As seen in nearly any depiction of D&D ever. So unfortunately when making the movie, they will likely be "stuck" in this way of thinking. They are so deep in the rabbit hole of "this is the only way of things" that they would never consider anything else. Even the Lord of the Rings and related movies could resist this with things like "Goofy Gimily" and "surfboard elf".

So this leads to the goofy, slapstick fights too, so a lot less Braveheart or LotR and much more Hercules/Xena and Jackie Chan movies.

It would be a big deal for Wizards and all the people involved in the movie making to think outside this trap. Even though it would make sense from a business sense to show a diverse cast of player characters and make a SERIOUS fun movie....the chances are slim.

I do think this assumes facts not in evidence. Yes, Gamers is very popular and plays the dysfunction to the hilt, but I believe that is because it is a well done trope-fest for the in crowd. I think most depictions in mass market, while not necessarily presenting glowing visions of what RPGs could be, don't seem to follow this path. Sure, they seem to present the geeks, but as serious geeks involved in geekery, not jokesters in stained black t-shirts.

Maybe it is a mass market vs. niche market issue...stuff made for the insiders leans way in to the insider tropes, mass market presents the nerd cliche.

Yup, LotR "had" to drop in comic relief and once Merry and Pippen were off screen it fell to Gimli. Don't even get me started on that! Surfing Legolas was an effort at cool action much like the oliphant kill, though, not at a funny Feng Shui or 7th Sea moment, IMO.

- M

[Scarlet Knight]

OK , let's assume the Movie Makers are similar in intelligence to the lot who thought "the Hobbit" would be improved by an elf/dwarf romance.

Now they decide they want to grab the "Game of Thrones" crowd and think a D&D movie can be their ticket. They want violence, nudity, gore and sex with it.

"Guardians of the Flame", with it's :

Spoiler

Show

dragons being enslaved for centuries to flame away a city's excrement, PCs gang raped by NPC bandits, PCs dying kicking on the end of a spear in the guts, and a wheelchair-bound kid winding up literally flamed to death in the real world

suddenly makes sense.

I can even hear the tag line: "D&D...it's not for kids anymore...."

[Clertar]

For me a lot of it is that they've tried a serious D&D film, multiple times, and at best reached the heights of 'okay'. Maybe a bit of silly is what's needed.

That used to be the case for superhero movies, and the problem with D&D is not that serious failed, it's that those movies were horrendous.

That can do it straight, in a fun adventure tone, and maybe crack it this time. General audiences are way more open to fantastic genres nowadays.

[Vahnavoi]

@Scarlet Knight:

If they actually followed that train of thought, we'd get the equivalent of live action Goblin Slayer or Berserk.

And I'd be fine with that.

[Ajustusdaniel]

OK , let's assume the Movie Makers are similar in intelligence to the lot who thought "the Hobbit" would be improved by an elf/dwarf romance.

Now they decide they want to grab the "Game of Thrones" crowd and think a D&D movie can be their ticket. They want violence, nudity, gore and sex with it.

"Guardians of the Flame", with it's :



suddenly makes sense.

I can even hear the tag line: "D&D...it's not for kids anymore...."

As a theatrical release (assuming those are ever a thing again...) I think that's unlikely, because the R-rating can hurt the box office. If you get a successful D&D franchise going, and there's money to throw around, I can see someone with a passion for the material and/or a specific vision making an R-rated D&D film (see: Logan and Deadpool) but I wouldn't expect them to launch the franchise that way.

Now, a D&D show on HBO or Starz or what have you I could definitely see going that way.

[Tyrant]

I don't think anyone here is arguing in favour of d&d being depicted in media exclusively as goofy slapstick - but rather, embracing the campiness and silliness that often comes up during games.

Your average d&d group is a bunch of friends sitting at a table to have some fun, and this means that in-between delving in undead-infested ruins and foiling the plots of evil chancellors, they'll crack jokes and make puns and do generally silly stuff. And if you take all this out, you are left with a mostly generic fantasy movie.

Look at Baldur's Gate: Minsc and Boo are beloved characters, and despite being silly and humorous, they exist perfectly fine in a dark and serious storyline. There's tongue-in-cheek humour about the rules of the time, and references to the shared knowledge of d&d players.

I don't want an Avenger-style movie, either. Constantly quipping in battle and subsisting "witty" one-liners for plot and personality is not what I want. I don't want a poor attempt at replicating LotR, either: I love LotR, but d&d isn't Tolkien.

Yeah, to be clear, I am not saying I wouldn't expect some humor and levity. I imagine there will even be some inside jokes, easter eggs, etc. Maybe even some jokes that focus on better known D&D tropes. What I don't expect is for the movie to be built around those things. If I were to guess, I would say it would be more serious than the average Marvel movie, but engaging in some of that type of humor (hopefully when appropriate). The big difference being the Marvel movies are starting from a point of "our world but slightly different" so jokey comments on the absurdity of the situations they are in make sense as a way to lighten the mood in the face of death/defeat/destruction. With a D&D movie, that is the world they know. Those situations won't seem absurd to them, so the joking about it will be questionable if not done well (though that applies to any humor* really).

*That's actually a big reason why I get worried when I hear talk of making these types of movies comedies. Humor is hard and rarely ages well. Modern humor and the obsession with referencing current events that will only really make sense in the moment even more so. I think comedic undertakings run a far higher risk of failure.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The only comedy I've seen that has managed to age remotely well is 9 to 5, because it really hasn't at all.

[Peelee]

The only comedy I've seen that has managed to age remotely well is 9 to 5, because it really hasn't at all.

Oh, hey, a chance to recommend In Bruges!

Also most Mel Brooks stuff (my favorite being the newer Producers) and Blues Brothers, off the top of my head, but In Bruges is both funny as hell and also incredibly and unexpectedly incisive.

[Scarlet Knight]

The only comedy I've seen that has managed to age remotely well is 9 to 5, because it really hasn't at all.

No love for Laurel & Hardy?

[Peelee]

No love for Laurel & Hardy?

It's sad to say that Frye and Laurie is old now, but it's old now, and if anything most of it has gotten more relevant. At least, the ones I've seen.

[dancrilis]

The only comedy I've seen that has managed to age remotely well is 9 to 5, because it really hasn't at all.

Personally still a fan of Blackadder.

Which I suppose could easily translate into DnD ...

[Rogar Demonblud]

No love for Laurel & Hardy?

Well, I do still send people a link to the piano movers bit any time they ask me to help them move.

[Eldan]

Personally still a fan of Blackadder.

Which I suppose could easily translate into DnD ...

Oh man. I'd kill someone for a Blackadder in the Forgotten Realms series.

Can we get Rowan Atkinson to play snarky old mentor to the adventuring party?

[Anonymouswizard]

Hmmmmmm... Lord Blackadder would probably be a Noble Rogue with Baldrick as his retainer, maybe Percy could be a Fighter? Or would that more be Bob? Lord Flashheart is clearly a Bard, I think we might be onto something here!

[Hopeless]

The real question is will he eventually become the BBEG or used as a henchman by the BBEG to dispose of the party when the BBEG no longer needs them and he can't refuse the order as the whole deal has been a charade to help him rise in the ranks of the nobility unaware he himself was being used to set up the nobility to be taken over or wiped out at the whim of the true villain whose been playing him the entire time?

[JoshL]

OK , let's assume the Movie Makers are similar in intelligence to the lot who thought "the Hobbit" would be improved by an elf/dwarf romance.

Been rewatching the Hobbit films, and they're not entirely wrong here, it was just executed poorly. First, to the plus, the dwarves in the book have literally no personalities ("good at starting fires" is NOT a personality) and some don't even get dialogue. Expanding the characters is a great idea, and a romance plot is not a terrible place to go, to get the elves invested emotionally. Tauriel is not a bad character either. However, starting that "romance" with a joke about checking what's in his pants is cringey at best. But the dialogue between them afterwards isn't terrible. Trying to build tension with a triangle with Legolas was a terrible choice, since Legolas has no chemistry with anyone without a beard. Again, not a terrible idea, but executed poorly. Where this all falls apart is having Tauriel, well, fall apart at the end, and having Legolas get the revenge kill. If she did, and maybe even used that as the motivation to distance herself from the rigid elven society, that could have been a strong moment. Instead, we get a climax with Legolas once again telling physics to frell off, and she becomes a weepy stereotype (not really how Tolkien wrote elf ladies).

Anyway, I like the Hobbit movies more than most, but they were sooooo....close.....to being great. A greater sin was spending way too much time with the Laketown advisor. Like, any time, really.

[Clertar]

Been rewatching the Hobbit films, and they're not entirely wrong here, it was just executed poorly. First, to the plus, the dwarves in the book have literally no personalities ("good at starting fires" is NOT a personality) and some don't even get dialogue. Expanding the characters is a great idea, and a romance plot is not a terrible place to go, to get the elves invested emotionally. Tauriel is not a bad character either. However, starting that "romance" with a joke about checking what's in his pants is cringey at best. But the dialogue between them afterwards isn't terrible. Trying to build tension with a triangle with Legolas was a terrible choice, since Legolas has no chemistry with anyone without a beard. Again, not a terrible idea, but executed poorly. Where this all falls apart is having Tauriel, well, fall apart at the end, and having Legolas get the revenge kill. If she did, and maybe even used that as the motivation to distance herself from the rigid elven society, that could have been a strong moment. Instead, we get a climax with Legolas once again telling physics to frell off, and she becomes a weepy stereotype (not really how Tolkien wrote elf ladies).

Anyway, I like the Hobbit movies more than most, but they were sooooo....close.....to being great. A greater sin was spending way too much time with the Laketown advisor. Like, any time, really.

I see it almost the same way as you. These were terrible ideas, and executed horrendously

[Silly Name]

-snip-

The issue plaguing the Hobbit movies is taking a fairy tale and trying to turn it into an epic movie trilogy.

The Hobbit, as the title implies, is about Bilbo and how the quest for the Lonely Mountain affects him. Yes, any dwarf that's not Thorin is barely a character in the book, but they are serviceable for what Tolkien wrote and why he wrote it.

Your point about Tauriel serving to expand the character of other dwarves is fair, but the problem a lot of fans like me have with the movies is that they seem to completely miss the point of the book by getting lost into all the subplots about other characters and making every thing grandiose and incredible when it doesn't need to - and relegating Bilbo's growth and learning to the sidelines.

Which, I guess, is sorta the same thing I've been thinking about a D&D movie: yes, they certainly make a fantasy movie, with good actors and effects and music, but can they capture the spirit of the thing?

[Ajustusdaniel]

The issue plaguing the Hobbit movies is taking a fairy tale and trying to turn it into an epic movie trilogy.

The Hobbit, as the title implies, is about Bilbo and how the quest for the Lonely Mountain affects him. Yes, any dwarf that's not Thorin is barely a character in the book, but they are serviceable for what Tolkien wrote and why he wrote it.

Your point about Tauriel serving to expand the character of other dwarves is fair, but the problem a lot of fans like me have with the movies is that they seem to completely miss the point of the book by getting lost into all the subplots about other characters and making every thing grandiose and incredible when it doesn't need to - and relegating Bilbo's growth and learning to the sidelines.

Which, I guess, is sorta the same thing I've been thinking about a D&D movie: yes, they certainly make a fantasy movie, with good actors and effects and music, but can they capture the spirit of the thing?

I mean, we have a reasonable group of intelligent, well-meaning and devastatingly attractive posters here. Can we agree as to what the spirit of D&D is?