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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Live and let live, not live and let murder. Evil doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's harmful behavior that you do to other people. A neutral character may look the other side but a good character would only do nothing if that is all they can do.
    I totally agree that Evil is an action, not a thought.

    I don't agree that Evil must be always active.
    Or even most of times.

    If you kill someone, you're still a murderer even 1.000 years later.

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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Good characters have a mandate to protect the innocent and (especially when LG) punish those who harm the innocent.
    Strongly disagree.

    A crusader has a mandate to do all of that.

    A person can be good and passive. Or good and cowardly. Or good and believe that each being must find good on their own or not find it at all - and that final judgment is rendered in the afterlife anyway. After all, this is a known fact of the D&D universe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Democratus View Post
    Strongly disagree.

    A crusader has a mandate to do all of that.

    A person can be good and passive. Or good and cowardly. Or good and believe that each being must find good on their own or not find it at all - and that final judgment is rendered in the afterlife anyway. After all, this is a known fact of the D&D universe.
    Yeah a doctor who spend all their free time providing free/discount medical aid to the poor is not neutral because they don't attempt to physically stop a heavily armed criminal. That's basically declaring you can't be good unless you are also a better combatant than any evil in the vicinity (or I suppose you could be a martyr, that however is usually exceptional behavior not the minimum threshold for good.)

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    I think there's a big difference between tolerating evil acts (especially when you don't have the power to effectively stop them), and continued working with someone in a way that will make both of you more powerful, and thus make that person able to accomplish more evil.

    That's if they're continuing to do evil stuff, mind. Could a good character be forgiving enough to work with a person who's done heinous stuff in the past, doesn't anymore, but hasn't really repented either? Sure.

    Likewise, could they work with an evil character out of necessity for a while, and afterward things remain basically unchanged? Also sure.

    But, "I'm going to achieve fame, fortune, and power - and I'll bring this small-time bully and abuser with me ... to become a rich, powerful bully and abuser who can single-handedly slaughter the entire town watch if it comes to that." Well, it seems pretty questionable. You're actually making the problem worse by doing so.

    This is mainly an issue for RPGs with significant power growth, like D&D. But since a lot of RPGs fall into that category, it's pretty relevant.
    Last edited by icefractal; 2020-12-17 at 06:01 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by icefractal View Post
    I think there's a big difference between tolerating evil acts (especially when you don't have the power to effectively stop them), and continued working with someone in a way that will make both of you more powerful, and thus make that person able to accomplish more evil.

    That's if they're continuing to do evil stuff, mind. Could a good character be forgiving enough to work with a person who's done heinous stuff in the past, doesn't anymore, but hasn't really repented either? Sure.

    Likewise, could they work with an evil character out of necessity for a while, and afterward things remain basically unchanged? Also sure.

    But, "I'm going to achieve fame, fortune, and power - and I'll bring this small-time bully and abuser with me ... to become a rich, powerful bully and abuser who can single-handedly slaughter the entire town watch if it comes to that." Well, it seems pretty questionable. You're actually making the problem worse by doing so.

    This is mainly an issue for RPGs with significant power growth, like D&D. But since a lot of RPGs fall into that category, it's pretty relevant.
    And if the evil person is evil because he gleefully tortures, villains who are significantly worse then him and only helps people because he loves being praised (but still helps them)?

    What if they use to be more evil but a good aligned friend caused them to be better, still not good enough to be neutral but better. Lets say he convinced them not to perform their worst act, not because its evil, an argument evil pc is unimpressed with but because it upsets good pc personally and despite being evil he still does care about his friend.
    Our good character knows that if they stop being friends the evil character will go back to his worst behavior and may pick up new ones without a good role-model.

    Our good pc could try and force the issue but then the bigger evil wins, either because one of them dies or because the party splits up and they are less able to oppose the worse foe.

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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by awa View Post
    Yeah a doctor who spend all their free time providing free/discount medical aid to the poor is not neutral because they don't attempt to physically stop a heavily armed criminal. That's basically declaring you can't be good unless you are also a better combatant than any evil in the vicinity (or I suppose you could be a martyr, that however is usually exceptional behavior not the minimum threshold for good.)
    The doctor can be good if he doesn't try to stop evil in hand-to-hand combat. He isn't good if he doesn't try to stop evil with the tools and methods he does have.

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by awa View Post
    And if the evil person is evil because he gleefully tortures, villains who are significantly worse then him and only helps people because he loves being praised (but still helps them)?

    What if they use to be more evil but a good aligned friend caused them to be better, still not good enough to be neutral but better. Lets say he convinced them not to perform their worst act, not because its evil, an argument evil pc is unimpressed with but because it upsets good pc personally and despite being evil he still does care about his friend.
    Our good character knows that if they stop being friends the evil character will go back to his worst behavior and may pick up new ones without a good role-model.

    Our good pc could try and force the issue but then the bigger evil wins, either because one of them dies or because the party splits up and they are less able to oppose the worse foe.
    I mean, Achilles is evil by D&D standards. He was praised as being a superior athlete and combatant, but he killed people because he wanted to be famous. I doubt anyone would have a hard time working with Achilles beyond his child like moods, he doesn't have a political bone in him. He kills for fame and sides with the popular side.

    The evil racist elves from Order of the Stick as well. They hate and kill goblins, and specifically kill them because they are goblins. This is no doubt evil; if you lived where there aren't goblins could you tell the difference between them and any other jerk? Like maybe they talk about Elves being the best a lot and how cruddy goblins are, but their evil would only come out in a scenario where you are already killing goblins.

    How do you tell the difference between evil and a scummy neutral person except in specific scenarios?
    Last edited by Tvtyrant; 2020-12-17 at 07:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tvtyrant View Post
    I mean, Achilles is evil by D&D standards. He was praised as being a superior athlete and combatant, but he killed people because he wanted to be famous. I doubt anyone would have a hard time working with Achilles beyond his child like moods, he doesn't have a political bone in him. He kills for fame and sides with the popular side.

    The evil racist elves from Order of the Stick as well. They hate and kill goblins, and specifically kill them because they are goblins. This is no doubt evil; if you lived where there aren't goblins could you tell the difference between them and any other jerk? Like maybe they talk about Elves being the best a lot and how cruddy goblins are, but their evil would only come out in a scenario where you are already killing goblins.

    How do you tell the difference between evil and a scummy neutral person except in specific scenarios?
    I'm not certain how this is relevant to my comment specificaly, but in regards to the larger argument it seems to support my general position that it is possible for a good person to be friends with an evil person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    The doctor can be good if he doesn't try to stop evil in hand-to-hand combat. He isn't good if he doesn't try to stop evil with the tools and methods he does have.
    So your argument is that in the real world their are effectively no good people? I mean every one around me is living in a 1st world country not rushing to impoverished war zones to sacrifice their time and resources. Our doctor might be living in a war torn country treating the wounded as an aid worker but because hes only helping people not fixing systemic problems by himself he not "good" enough? The bar you have described is far to high the amount of people that can claim to have reached it are a rounding error. Their are two many evil acts occurring all over the world all the time, it is literally impossible to try and stop them all, and worse trying can easily cause even bigger problems.
    Last edited by awa; 2020-12-17 at 07:32 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by awa View Post
    I'm not certain how this is relevant to my comment specificaly, but in regards to the larger argument it seems to support my general position that it is possible for a good person to be friends with an evil person.
    "And if the evil person is evil because he gleefully tortures, villains who are significantly worse then him and only helps people because he loves being praised (but still helps them)?"

    I was adding the example of Achilles as someone who is evil but in an acceptable way, and then included other examples of it. I'm in full agreement with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by awa View Post
    So your argument is that in the real world their are effectively no good people? I mean every one around me is living in a 1st world country not rushing to impoverished war zones to sacrifice their time and resources. Our doctor might be living in a war torn country treating the wounded as an aid worker but because hes only helping people not fixing systemic problems by himself he not "good" enough? The bar you have described is far to high the amount of people that can claim to have reached it are a rounding error. Their are two many evil acts occurring all over the world all the time, it is literally impossible to try and stop them all, and worse trying can easily cause even bigger problems.
    Straw man. You are taking it to an extreme that I wasn't.

    I don't personally spend all my time and resources traveling to war zones and helping people, but I do sacrifice a decent portion of my time and resources to charities that do go into war zones and disaster areas and help people.
    Most of my time is spent raising a family and providing for them, which is itself a good action, so long as I am raising good kids and not villains (I'm doing my best). The job with which I provide for them involves a fair amount of doing good as well.
    Last edited by Jason; 2020-12-17 at 08:03 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    Straw man. You are taking it to an extreme that I wasn't.

    I don't personally spend all my time and resources traveling to war zones and helping people, but I do sacrifice a decent portion of my time and resources to charities that do go into war zones and disaster areas and help people.
    Most of my time is spent raising a family and providing for them, which is itself a good action, so long as I am raising good kids and not villains (I'm doing my best). The job with which I provide for them involves a fair amount of doing good as well.
    so is a doctor in a warzone caring for the wounded good even though he is not using his position to smuggle out refugees? He not stopping the evil even though their is a chance he could succeed.

    You are not stopping evil even though you could, that's fine it sounds like your a good man and it just shows how flawed the argument is. Lots of bad stuff happens in the world and it's not your job to fix it.
    Last edited by awa; 2020-12-17 at 08:31 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by awa View Post
    So your argument is that in the real world their are effectively no good people? I mean every one around me is living in a 1st world country not rushing to impoverished war zones to sacrifice their time and resources. Our doctor might be living in a war torn country treating the wounded as an aid worker but because hes only helping people not fixing systemic problems by himself he not "good" enough? The bar you have described is far to high the amount of people that can claim to have reached it are a rounding error. Their are two many evil acts occurring all over the world all the time, it is literally impossible to try and stop them all, and worse trying can easily cause even bigger problems.
    It's impossible to stop them all, but that doesn't mean there's no point doing anything about any of them. And again, there's a big difference between "not personally stop" and "actively support".

    Also, I would say the majority of people are neutral. And even with an even split, only a third would be good. So if "most people" aren't Good by a given metric, that doesn't mean the metric is wrong.
    Last edited by icefractal; 2020-12-17 at 08:52 PM.

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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by Democratus View Post
    Strongly disagree.

    A crusader has a mandate to do all of that.
    "Protect innocent life" is in the basic 3.5 description of Good:


    Good characters and creatures protect innocent life. Evil characters and creatures debase or destroy innocent life, whether for fun or profit.

    "Good" implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others.


    "Punishing those who harm the innocent" is more a LG thing, true:


    Lawful Good, "Crusader"
    A lawful good character acts as a good person is expected or required to act. She combines a commitment to oppose evil with the discipline to fight relentlessly. She tells the truth, keeps her word, helps those in need, and speaks out against injustice. A lawful good character hates to see the guilty go unpunished.


    Code of Conduct
    A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
    Additionally, a paladinís code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    I can fight crime by reporting it when I see it, helping people secure their homes (like calling them when I see they left their garage open), and defending my own home. I don't have to spend all my time and money trying to become Batman and actively seeking out criminals to beat up in order to be considered good-aligned.

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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    and if you live/ are in a country where the police are the ones doing the crime? Do you stop being good if all you do is help people rather than fix the problem? It sounds to me like only people who have it easy are allowed to be good in that system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    I can fight crime by reporting it when I see it, helping people secure their homes (like calling them when I see they left their garage open), and defending my own home. I don't have to spend all my time and money trying to become Batman and actively seeking out criminals to beat up in order to be considered good-aligned.
    Which is one of the reasons why Good and Evil characters can get along.
    A character can be good without stopping all evil within their sphere of influence.
    A character can be good without perfect knowledge of the moral character of all the characters they interact with.
    A character can be evil without doing all evil within their sphere of influence.

    Therefore, even in the long term, good and evil characters have the possibility to get along. Specific examples might or might not get along, or anywhere in between. They might get along due to imperfect information. They might get along because characters are more than their alignment and the relationship does not require the good character to actively support the evil the evil character does, and the good characters is not required to stop all evil.
    Last edited by OldTrees1; 2020-12-18 at 09:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldTrees1 View Post
    Which is one of the reasons why Good and Evil characters can get along.
    A character can be good without stopping all evil within their sphere of influence.
    A character can be good without perfect knowledge of the moral character of all the characters they interact with.
    A character can be evil without doing all evil within their sphere of influence.
    Therefore, even in the long term, good and evil characters have the possibility to get along. Specific examples might or might not get along, or anywhere in between.
    yes, combined with the fact that people are exceptionally good at lying to themselves.
    Think how many times a killer is found out and his friends and family say they couldn't imagine he would do this despite sometimes literally saying he was going to do that thing.

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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldTrees1 View Post
    Which is one of the reasons why Good and Evil characters can get along.
    A character can be good without stopping all evil within their sphere of influence.
    A character can be good without perfect knowledge of the moral character of all the characters they interact with.
    A character can be evil without doing all evil within their sphere of influence.

    Therefore, even in the long term, good and evil characters have the possibility to get along. Specific examples might or might not get along, or anywhere in between. They might get along due to imperfect information. They might get along because characters are more than their alignment and the relationship does not require the good character to actively support the evil the evil character does, and the good characters is not required to stop all evil.
    But when we're talking about adventuring parties we're not talking about just tolerating or getting along in a community, we're talking about people actively helping one another towards their goals. If those goals are morally opposed it can't last. One side or the other will have to change their goals.

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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    But when we're talking about adventuring parties we're not talking about just tolerating or getting along in a community, we're talking about people actively helping one another towards their goals. If those goals are morally opposed it can't last. One side or the other will have to change their goals.
    No we were not talking about adventuring parties.
    This is a roleplaying games thread not a dnd thread so there is a lot of interactions that are not "being in a party and murdering stuff" and you can go along people in contexts other than being in a murder group.
    If you had to be in an adventuring party to get along with someone the title would not be "Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?" but would be "Can Good Characters Get Along with anything at all?" because adventuring parties are a fundamentally not good thing: you use physical power to impose your will over the other violently and get paid for violence.

    If you are in an adventuring party you probably are evil.
    Last edited by noob; 2020-12-18 at 10:31 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    But when we're talking about adventuring parties we're not talking about just tolerating or getting along in a community, we're talking about people actively helping one another towards their goals. If those goals are morally opposed it can't last. One side or the other will have to change their goals.
    For an adventuring party are the goals in opposition or merely the methods?
    Evil overlord want to destroy world, both want to stop this, its just the why and the how are different not the what.

    Good I fight the evil overlord to save the people with no thought of reward.

    Evil I fight the evil overlord because if he destroys the world where will I keep my stuff. Also I'm getting payed.
    Last edited by awa; 2020-12-18 at 10:34 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    But when we're talking about adventuring parties we're not talking about just tolerating or getting along in a community, we're talking about people actively helping one another towards their goals. If those goals are morally opposed it can't last. One side or the other will have to change their goals.
    As others mentioned some of the topic is about a more general case. However you were talking about adventuring parties and I think my statement holds after some elaboration.

    Yes, we are talking about people actively helping one another towards some of their goals. However good and evil characters can have some goals that are not opposed, even if they have others that are opposed.

    1) Just because the party travels together does not mean everyone is involved in every goal. The impatient barbarian and the studious dungeoneer might disagree about the dungeoneer's goal of studying trap #26. So the barbarian continues onward. Just because they had 1 opposed goal did not mean they had to come to conflict over it. The same is true for morally opposed goals, provided you agree that good characters don't need to stop ALL evil within their sphere of influence.

    2) Just because there are opposed goals does not mean there are not shared goals that muddy the issue. When playing chess I have a shared goal of both of us having fun and an opposed goal of trying to win. The opposed goal does not always trump the shared goal.

    There is a burning orphanage. The good character wants to save the orphans. The evil character wants to save their orphan friends and send a message to the arsonist. They work together to save the evil character's orphan friends, then the good character continues saving the other orphans while the evil character "sends a message" to the arsonist. After sending the "message" the evil character returns to save their good character friend who is still in the burning orphanage. They continue to fight crimes because the evil character wants to protect their good aligned good friend from getting in over their head. But the evil character continues other pursuits on their own time, including but not limited to, revenge whenever the criminal was unlucky enough to pick on the evil character's family/friends.
    Last edited by OldTrees1; 2020-12-18 at 10:52 AM.

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    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    "Protect innocent life" is in the basic 3.5 description of Good:


    Good characters and creatures protect innocent life. Evil characters and creatures debase or destroy innocent life, whether for fun or profit.

    "Good" implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others.
    And this is not the definition in the AD&D DMG. It says "Cruelty and suffering are undesirable" but does not demand that action be taken to resolve them. It only speaks to the general outlook of the individual, the "broad ethos of thinking" rather than an obligation to action.

    There are many different definitions of good.

    A god can be all powerful and good, yet still allow evil to happen - and even love those who perpetrate evil. It doesn't change the fact that the god is good. A personification of selfless love (whether a deity or a character) is good. And they can be entirely passive - allowing free will for all, even those who are evil - and still be good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    No we were not talking about adventuring parties.
    This is a roleplaying games thread not a dnd thread so there is a lot of interactions that are not "being in a party and murdering stuff" and you can go along people in contexts other than being in a murder group.
    If you had to be in an adventuring party to get along with someone the title would not be "Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?" but would be "Can Good Characters Get Along with anything at all?" because adventuring parties are a fundamentally not good thing: you use physical power to impose your will over the other violently and get paid for violence.

    If you are in an adventuring party you probably are evil.
    It's a pretty safe assumption that when we're talking about RPGs and "characters" that we are talking about adventuring parties, whether that's a group of D&D dungeon delivers or a super hero team or a starship crew, or some other group.

    Violence = Evil?
    So the Order of the Stick is fundamentally evil simply because they regularly use violence?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    But when we're talking about adventuring parties we're not talking about just tolerating or getting along in a community, we're talking about people actively helping one another towards their goals. If those goals are morally opposed it can't last. One side or the other will have to change their goals.
    But are these goals actually opposed instead of just not perfectly matching ?

    What are typical motivators of evil characters :

    - I want to get rich and live a life in luxury
    - I want to get revenge and don't care about forgiveness
    - I want to get famous because i am a selfimportant prick and my pride demands so
    - I want my (country, family, order, etc) to triumph over their enemies and am not interested in who is in the right nor am i picky about the means

    Motivator for evil is nearly never evl for evils sake. It is usually just about selfish goals and willingness to cut corners to get there. It is rather easy to evil and good PCs in the same party which each rather indifferent instead of opposed to each others goals.

    A potential problem in a party are usually the means, not the ends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satinavian View Post
    But are these goals actually opposed instead of just not perfectly matching ?
    If both sides maintain their alignment they will eventually have opposing goals. That's why I have maintained that you can only keep opposing alignments in a given party short-term. Even if they keep the same long-term goals, eventually they will disagree on the methods to be used, and whether the means justifies them.

    Motivator for evil is nearly never evl for evils sake. It is usually just about selfish goals and willingness to cut corners to get there. It is rather easy to evil and good PCs in the same party which each rather indifferent instead of opposed to each others goals.
    In fact I would say that nobody real is motivated purely for evil's sake. They just have twisted notions of what is acceptable to get what would could be considered good goals. RPGs can introduce creatures that are motivated out of pure evil, but then we're talking fantasy rather than reality. Even Sauron was motivated at the beginning by a desire for order - something good in and of itself.

    A potential problem in a party are usually the means, not the ends.
    I agree, the means will be the first difference of opinion to come up. It is precisely because the evil character won't care about how much collateral harm their plans cause that the good character will eventually have to object and decide that their alliance is not worth it anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    If both sides maintain their alignment they will eventually have opposing goals. That's why I have maintained that you can only keep opposing alignments in a given party short-term. Even if they keep the same long-term goals, eventually they will disagree on the methods to be used, and whether the means justifies them.
    But since they are characters they will have many goals rather than just 1 goal. So while you maintain they will eventually have opposing goals, I will maintain that is not an insurmountable hurdle for their relationship.

    1) The Impatient Barbarian and the Studious Dungeoneer have opposing goals when it comes to traps. The Barbarian wants to push onwards one the trap is bypassed. The Dungeoneer wants to study the trap. While those goals are opposed, the characters resolve that opposition by temporarily splitting. The Barbarian pushes on while the Dungeoneer stays behind and studies. They rejoin later.

    2) The Impatient Barbarian and the Studious Dungeoneer have opposing goals when it comes to books on traps. The Barbarian does not want the Dungeoneer to read the book and the Dungeoneer wants to read the book. They resolve that opposition by the Dungeoneer reading the book and the Barbarian being okay with not getting everything they want. You did say good does not need to stop "all" evil in their sphere of influence.

    3) The Impatient Barbarian and the Studious Dungeoneer having opposing goals when it comes to which quest to take next. But they have plenty of shared goals about sticking together. So they resolve the opposition by find a compromise that satisfies most of their goals rather than stubborning fight on 1 issue at the expense of multiple shared goals.

    These examples have parallels when it comes to evil & good, but since those are broad categories, I am using these amoral examples to keep generalization in mind.

    However for a concrete example:
    A party adventures together. When they get back to town one character goes to spend time helping at the orphanage and another character goes to steal from a noble's house. They regroup the next day to head out on the next quest to protect their world.
    Last edited by OldTrees1; 2020-12-18 at 04:29 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #177
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2009

    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    If both sides maintain their alignment they will eventually have opposing goals. That's why I have maintained that you can only keep opposing alignments in a given party short-term. Even if they keep the same long-term goals, eventually they will disagree on the methods to be used, and whether the means justifies them.


    In fact I would say that nobody real is motivated purely for evil's sake. They just have twisted notions of what is acceptable to get what would could be considered good goals. RPGs can introduce creatures that are motivated out of pure evil, but then we're talking fantasy rather than reality. Even Sauron was motivated at the beginning by a desire for order - something good in and of itself.


    I agree, the means will be the first difference of opinion to come up. It is precisely because the evil character won't care about how much collateral harm their plans cause that the good character will eventually have to object and decide that their alliance is not worth it anymore.
    That's making a lot of unfounded assumptions, a difference of opinion is not guaranteed to end a friendship particularly if their are considerable outside factors pushing them together. Second a person can be evil in one way but not in another. An evil character could care about collateral damage if their evil is focused in another area. Many threats are long term problems, that dont go away, if they are fighting to keep an immortal evil at bay the evil PC may always be the lesser of two evils.

  28. - Top - End - #178
    Titan in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2013

    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by awa View Post
    Many threats are long term problems, that dont go away, if they are fighting to keep an immortal evil at bay the evil PC may always be the lesser of two evils.
    Imagine if people teamed up IRL to try to save everyone from the eventual heat death of the universe. Talk about long term problems.
    Last edited by OldTrees1; 2020-12-18 at 05:58 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #179
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldTrees1 View Post
    Imagine if people teamed up IRL to try to save everyone form the eventual heat death of the universe. Talk about long term problems.
    I think it is a brilliant idea.
    Maybe form a club for that?
    I should have thought about recruiting people for that earlier.
    But since you got that idea before I am willing to join any club you make for that even if I throw poor innocent small animals for no good reason and that meanwhile you are a good aligned paladin(in fact if you are it would make me even more willing to join).
    Last edited by noob; 2020-12-18 at 04:57 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #180
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Virtual Austin

    Default Re: Can Good And Evil Characters Get Along?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldTrees1 View Post
    Imagine if people teamed up IRL to try to save everyone from the eventual heat death of the universe. Talk about long term problems.
    Steven Baxter (iirc) wrote a book about just this.

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