Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 36
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Right Behind You
    Gender
    Male

    Default Gender Neutral Titles

    Doing some worldbuilding for a large scale game I run (Lots of participants, not just a single party)

    I've been trying to make it more inclusive, although this is an area I am not particularly skilled in. I'm doing my best to educate myself but I came to this later in life and I have a lot of catching up to do.

    I've been going back through all the game materials and tried to add gender neutral titles for the various ranks and statuses present in the setting. Most aren't too difficult, but some don't have real world equivalents and so figuring out a good one has me stuck.

    One of the militaries in setting, for example, uses Armsman/Armswoman (Derived from Man-At-Arms) as their Private equivalent. I'm having trouble figuring out an appropriate Gender neutral option. Armsperson is one idea, but it doesn't sound right to me.

    If anyone has a thought on a good term to use I'd appreciate it. Or if you could point me at a resource for gender neutral job titles/ forms of address in fantasy writing, I'd appreciate it. I haven't had much luck doing my own searching.
    Warning, this poster makes frequent use of jokes, snarks, and puns. He is mostly harmless and intends no offense.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Fodder?
    It is gender neutral and is a fairly accurate title since it is what they do in fantasy: die in droves to prove that evil person X is evil or if they are on the wrong side they die to the heroes because heroes have to get fights.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    On the "Web"
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Would Footsoldier work?
    Quote Originally Posted by Quarian Rex View Post
    Sometimes you need more than well crafted crunch. Sometimes you need well crafted crunch that is playable in the game.
    Steam: Papa Palpy Palpatine
    Pesterchum: mysticUmbra
    YouTube: Noctus Does Things

    Black(Blue and Green) or Sultai is my khanate, and my colour alignment.

    The Rest of my Signature
    My Hombrew

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Call them after their weapons the way you call musicians after their instruments?
    Like "I need a line of pikes here and bows behind"
    Last edited by noob; 2020-12-16 at 01:32 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    DrowGirl

    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    A tempest in a teacup
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by noob View Post
    Fodder?
    It is gender neutral and is a fairly accurate title since it is what they do in fantasy: die in droves to prove that evil person X is evil or if they are on the wrong side they die to the heroes because heroes have to get fights.
    Well, you seem to have some issues with fantasy stories

    To be honest, I usually think of -man titles as gender-neutral. As in, the abbreviation of hu-man. So I guess it would be armsman for a human, armsdwarf for a dwarf, armself for an elf, etc.

    But according to Google, [warning, silliness] you could also call them armsidividuals, armsmortals, armsouls, armsfellows (i have a particular fondness for fellow as a gender-neutral term), armsfigure, armspersonage, armscharacter, armstype, armsbloke, armsort, armsbeggar, armscustomer, armschap, armsfella, armscookie, armsgeezer, armsdude, armsdog, armswight, or [vulgar slang] armsbugger.
    elephants are made of carbon




    and so are you

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    I like armsouls the most from that list.
    Until you have soulless individuals in your army at that point you have to improvise to not make them feel discriminated.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Earth and/or not-Earth
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Armsbearer, perhaps?
    I'm making a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    EU
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    I second referring to them by role/equipment more than anything else.

    "Archer" is gender-neutral, so are "hoplite", "rider", "infantry", etc.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    EvilClericGuy

    Join Date
    May 2019
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Why not just ďarmstakerĒ as in, ďtake up armsĒ?
    Spoiler: Total War
    Show


    As
    The Celestial Empire of Longshan

    Spoiler: Domination Victory
    Show

    Equinox League

    Red Aurora College - Fae of the Four Courts - Khalos Guild - Celestial Empire



    (Pretend thereís more spoilers here because I havenít found the will to digitize my campaign setting yet)
    寧教我負天下人,休教天下人負我。

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by eru001 View Post
    Doing some worldbuilding for a large scale game I run (Lots of participants, not just a single party)

    I've been trying to make it more inclusive, although this is an area I am not particularly skilled in. I'm doing my best to educate myself but I came to this later in life and I have a lot of catching up to do.

    I've been going back through all the game materials and tried to add gender neutral titles for the various ranks and statuses present in the setting. Most aren't too difficult, but some don't have real world equivalents and so figuring out a good one has me stuck.

    One of the militaries in setting, for example, uses Armsman/Armswoman (Derived from Man-At-Arms) as their Private equivalent. I'm having trouble figuring out an appropriate Gender neutral option. Armsperson is one idea, but it doesn't sound right to me.

    If anyone has a thought on a good term to use I'd appreciate it. Or if you could point me at a resource for gender neutral job titles/ forms of address in fantasy writing, I'd appreciate it. I haven't had much luck doing my own searching.
    Just invent a new neutral word ender. Armek, Bowek, Swordek, Cavalryek, ekc. By page 10 it will look perfectly normal.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    sandmote's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    US
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Silly Name View Post
    I second referring to them by role/equipment more than anything else.

    "Archer" is gender-neutral, so are "hoplite", "rider", "infantry", etc.
    Thirded, although "riders," are usually broken up by what they ride: cavalry, camelry, elephantry, ect. as they have different battlefield use.

    The difficulty, of course, lies in the groups without common alternative terms. I think "pike squares," should work for those groups with reach weapons (as opposed to the hoplites), and "pavisier" (after their shields) for crossbowmen. I have no idea for dedicated swordsmen; swords usually weren't primary weapons. "Chargers," perhaps, given swords were used as a primary weapon when one intended to rush at the enemy and either bypass or withstand pikes or volleys?

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
    Armsbearer, perhaps?
    Minor issue is armsbearer is already a thing. The guys used to carry and maintain a knight or lords weapons and other equipment.

    Mind you, this is a made up fantasy world so if you want that word to mean something different more power to you.

    Some fantasy Iíve read that have worked fairly well was just making up their own names for things. Iíve seen elite warriors referred to as Carls or Husrieks used for any gender. Or they draw from different languages and older forms that still probably were gendered in the original culture but donít necessarily follow the gender suffix conventions in English so they get away with it. I donít think anyone bats an eye that the Thegn or Legionnaire is female even though thegn literally meant servant boy and being a man was a requirement of the Roman legion.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Thirded, although "riders," are usually broken up by what they ride: cavalry, camelry, elephantry, ect. as they have different battlefield use.

    The difficulty, of course, lies in the groups without common alternative terms. I think "pike squares," should work for those groups with reach weapons (as opposed to the hoplites), and "pavisier" (after their shields) for crossbowmen. I have no idea for dedicated swordsmen; swords usually weren't primary weapons. "Chargers," perhaps, given swords were used as a primary weapon when one intended to rush at the enemy and either bypass or withstand pikes or volleys?
    Kinda think charger more directly implies shock cavalry.
    Last edited by Dienekes; 2020-12-16 at 03:50 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2009

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by eru001 View Post
    Doing some worldbuilding for a large scale game I run (Lots of participants, not just a single party)

    I've been trying to make it more inclusive, although this is an area I am not particularly skilled in. I'm doing my best to educate myself but I came to this later in life and I have a lot of catching up to do.

    I've been going back through all the game materials and tried to add gender neutral titles for the various ranks and statuses present in the setting. Most aren't too difficult, but some don't have real world equivalents and so figuring out a good one has me stuck.

    One of the militaries in setting, for example, uses Armsman/Armswoman (Derived from Man-At-Arms) as their Private equivalent. I'm having trouble figuring out an appropriate Gender neutral option. Armsperson is one idea, but it doesn't sound right to me.

    If anyone has a thought on a good term to use I'd appreciate it. Or if you could point me at a resource for gender neutral job titles/ forms of address in fantasy writing, I'd appreciate it. I haven't had much luck doing my own searching.
    Well, what's a good substitute is going to depend on how tightly your play group uses the definition of man at arms and how well they'll accept a substitute that isn't precise-to-definition. If they're historically very precise then you pursue different options than if they're loose.

    These will likely work whether you're using man-at-arms in the old sense of heavy armored cavalry armed with something long and pointy, or just the general sense of "armored fighter":

    - the laziest jump is to gendarme...which is the French "person of arms" doing the exact same military role.

    - armiger is worth consideration, but it's a bit linguistically tangled because in Latin it's just "arms-bearer" in Italian "armigeri" is the equivalent man-at-arms role, but in English the term also is used in heraldry (bearer of heraldic arms as opposed to literal arms and armor).

    From there, the options are choices about what defines the role. Cataphract captures the idea of combatant that is on horseback and heavily armored, while lancer emphasizes the pointy stick and it's accompanying tactics but could be applied to lighter-armored cavalry. There are evocative culture-specific terms like hussar and of-an-era terms like dragoon and cuirassier that gesture at "person, armed and armored on horseback" but don't work if people are very precise about their terminology.
    Last edited by Yanagi; 2020-12-16 at 04:44 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Right Behind You
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleBison View Post
    Armsbearer, perhaps?
    I do like that one
    Warning, this poster makes frequent use of jokes, snarks, and puns. He is mostly harmless and intends no offense.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2014

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by GravityEmblem View Post
    Well, you seem to have some issues with fantasy stories

    To be honest, I usually think of -man titles as gender-neutral. As in, the abbreviation of hu-man. So I guess it would be armsman for a human, armsdwarf for a dwarf, armself for an elf, etc.
    "Human" and "man" are false friends; they're no more etymologically related than "man" and "manager."

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by VoxRationis View Post
    "Human" and "man" are false friends; they're no more etymologically related than "man" and "manager."
    True, though it still kinda works. Since man in Old English was the generic form of person were wermann was male and wifmann female deriving from proto-germanic languages whose origins are still being debated upon as far as I understand it.

    While Human comes from the Latin homo.

    So while the reasoning is etymologically nonsense, it kinda does stumble upon a valid use of "mann."

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Draconi Redfir's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Gobbotopia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    just remove the "man" and the "woman".

    The shall be: Arms.
    Avy by Thormag
    Spoiler
    Show


  18. - Top - End - #18
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2009

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Some other options: refer to them by rank, either social or military: Private/Soldier, Yeoman/Archer, Sarge, etc.

    Another option is to have most npcs respond to each other in the standard derogatory stuff of militaries throughout history. "Come on you apes, want to live forever". Dog soldiers, grunts, jarheads, etc.

    Last, you can always give units prideful nicknames to each unit. The immortals are famous, but the Sarwen of Axum are a really cool example, as they become a extended part of the ruling body, and you were bound to your unit even after retirement. So this unit might be the 44th pike, the shining dragons, and every private Soldier is called Dragon.

    "Captain, take Sergeant Brasco, Dragon Williams and whatever reptiles you can gather up from the shiny snakes to take that hill."

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Armiger is the obvious general neutral version of Armsman/Armswoman.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Mar 2020

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    "Folk" might be a useful alternative to gendered suffixes.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Bohandas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2016

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by eru001 View Post
    Doing some worldbuilding for a large scale game I run (Lots of participants, not just a single party)

    I've been trying to make it more inclusive, although this is an area I am not particularly skilled in. I'm doing my best to educate myself but I came to this later in life and I have a lot of catching up to do.

    I've been going back through all the game materials and tried to add gender neutral titles for the various ranks and statuses present in the setting. Most aren't too difficult, but some don't have real world equivalents and so figuring out a good one has me stuck.

    One of the militaries in setting, for example, uses Armsman/Armswoman (Derived from Man-At-Arms) as their Private equivalent. I'm having trouble figuring out an appropriate Gender neutral option. Armsperson is one idea, but it doesn't sound right to me.
    What specifically do you need the neutral title for? Because if it's for a warforged or an inevitable or other construct than clearly that's an Armsbot
    Omegaupdate Forum

    WoTC Forums Archive + Indexing Projext

    PostImage, a free and sensible alternative to Photobucket

    Temple+ Modding Project for Atari's Temple of Elemental Evil

    Morrus' RPG Forum (EN World v2)

    If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended. That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear, and this weak and idle theme, no more yielding but a dream. -Midsummer Night's Dream, Act 5, Scene 1

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Laserlight's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Virginia Beach VA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    In groups, I tend to refer to pikes, light horse, muskets, heavy cav, archers, that sort of thing. For mixed units, I'd either use the commander's name or the unit designation: "General Cordoba will advance on the city gates, with Second Tercio covering the left flank and Guzman's cavalry on the right."

    If you're thinking of individuals: soldier, serjeant, squire, knight, militia, levy, dragoon, hussar, lancer, cataphract.
    Junior, half orc paladin of the Order of St Dale the Intimidator: "Ah cain't abide no murderin' scoundrel."

    Tactical Precepts: 1) Cause chaos, then exploit it; 2) No plan survives contact with...(sigh)...my subordinates.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Somewhere over th rainbow

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    I feel like folk works in a lot of scenarios.. Merfolk.. lizardfolk... but somehow armfolk makes me think of sentient arms.
    We're all just humans who like other humans... or we don't...
    What am I?
    I am me, and will continue to be me, as hard as I can.
    Professional Ancient Relic
    Beware, Monologues
    Ambassador from Gen Z
    NBITP

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2015

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizard_Lizard View Post
    I feel like folk works in a lot of scenarios.. Merfolk.. lizardfolk... but somehow armfolk makes me think of sentient arms.
    Imagine the general deciding "we should do a gender neutral title for privates" then 3 years later they go to war against sentient arms and realise "oh no the armfolk is now confused about fighting armfolk."

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    Midwest, Unfortunately
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Thirded, although "riders," are usually broken up by what they ride: cavalry, camelry, elephantry, ect. as they have different battlefield use.

    The difficulty, of course, lies in the groups without common alternative terms. I think "pike squares," should work for those groups with reach weapons (as opposed to the hoplites), and "pavisier" (after their shields) for crossbowmen. I have no idea for dedicated swordsmen; swords usually weren't primary weapons. "Chargers," perhaps, given swords were used as a primary weapon when one intended to rush at the enemy and either bypass or withstand pikes or volleys?
    It has absolutely no basis in history or mythology, but the Fire Emblem games have somewhat popularized using "Myrmidon" as a gender-neutral term for a dedicated swordfighter.
    92% of forum users no longer put made-up statistics in their signatures. If you're part of the 8% who still do, copy and paste this into your signature.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2008

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonsonthemap View Post
    It has absolutely no basis in history or mythology, but the Fire Emblem games have somewhat popularized using "Myrmidon" as a gender-neutral term for a dedicated swordfighter.
    The soldiers of Achilles have no basis in mythology?

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    sandmote's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    US
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonsonthemap View Post
    It has absolutely no basis in history or mythology, but the Fire Emblem games have somewhat popularized using "Myrmidon" as a gender-neutral term for a dedicated swordfighter.
    I suppose that works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dienekes View Post
    The soldiers of Achilles have no basis in mythology?
    Just to run through the history:

    • The Greek myrmidons were known for unfailingly following orders, much like ants fighting against a far larger colony to the bitter end.
    • Stemming for this description, calling a soldier a "myrmidon" in the middle ages was basically the same as calling someone an "automaton," or "NPC" today.
    • The Japanese idea of a swordsman lionizes the same principle, (see: the samurai and the modern stereotype of bushido) so when they were translating the "Swordsman" class from the Fire Emblem games to English they used the "myrmidon" name.


    So filling the name gap swordsmen have with "myrmidon" is specifically what has no basis in history or mythology.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Jun 2005

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by GravityEmblem View Post
    To be honest, I usually think of -man titles as gender-neutral. As in, the abbreviation of hu-man. So I guess it would be armsman for a human, armsdwarf for a dwarf, armself for an elf, etc.
    This was an issue with the original Dungeons & Dragons. Player characters could be fighting men, magic-users, and clerics; and could be men, dwarves, elves, or halflings. Dwarves, elves, and halflings could be fighting men. Dwarves and halfings were required to be fighting men. Also, clerics as well as magic-users could use magic.

    I wish that I could honestly say that that D&D's terminology has much improved. As it is, it's still pretty poor at categorization, with word choice being just one part of that.

    Isn't it weird that "warlock" is now a class name? "Witch" is the one English example I can think of where the less connotatively gendered term is the feminine one. (Compare and contrast "god", "actor", etc.)
    Spoiler
    Show

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    HalflingPirate

    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    In English the only gendered pronouns are feminine. The so-called masculine pronouns are assumed to be neuter unless the subject is known.

    That said, soldier and trooper are gender neutral. Blade, cohort, dragoon, and a host of other titles will work as well.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Bohandas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2016

    Default Re: Gender Neutral Titles

    Quote Originally Posted by brian 333 View Post
    In English the only gendered pronouns are feminine. The so-called masculine pronouns are assumed to be neuter unless the subject is known.
    That's a very good point
    Omegaupdate Forum

    WoTC Forums Archive + Indexing Projext

    PostImage, a free and sensible alternative to Photobucket

    Temple+ Modding Project for Atari's Temple of Elemental Evil

    Morrus' RPG Forum (EN World v2)

    If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended. That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear, and this weak and idle theme, no more yielding but a dream. -Midsummer Night's Dream, Act 5, Scene 1

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •