Crusader Kings III the Second: Partition Inheritance is a Pain

[IthilanorStPete]

First thread got closed due to necro'ing, so let's start a second one! How's the 1.2 patch treating people?

I've finally gotten around to actually playing a game; started as Malcom, King of Scotland in the 1066 start. So far I've got most of Ireland under my control, with a marriage set up to inherit one of the Welsh principalities down the road. I'm flush with cash thanks to a lot of economic buildings built by an Architect ruler, planning to plow that into some heavily buffed men-at-arms.

My corner of the world, nearly 50 years in:

Spoiler: Large image

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[GravityEmblem]

I went for the Munster 1066 start, as I'm a complete noob. In fact, it took me way too long to realize the best way to get income up was to get men-at-arm maintenance down. Who knew Train Commanders was the most economically powerful councilor action?

[DanswordMaia]

Now discounts in the steam and i want to ask you what is the difference from the second part of the game?I really want to play but I don't know if it's worth buying?

[IthilanorStPete]

I went for the Munster 1066 start, as I'm a complete noob. In fact, it took me way too long to realize the best way to get income up was to get men-at-arm maintenance down. Who knew Train Commanders was the most economically powerful councilor action?

Heh, does that really have more impact than the Steward's +taxes ability? I haven't noticed men-at-arms costing that much, at least in peacetime.

Now discounts in the steam and i want to ask you what is the difference from the second part of the game?I really want to play but I don't know if it's worth buying?

There's a lot of differences, but the biggest ones I can think of:

• Much more extensive character development, beyond what CK2 had with the Way of Life focuses. You select a focus (each of the 5 traits has 3 different focus options); that gives you experience over time, which lets you unlock Perks in a skill tree that give you various abilities.
• Play as any ruler out of the box (except merchant republics; Paradox is still working on revising their mechanics). Muslims, pagans, South Asians, steppe hordes, all playable right now.
• 867 start date is available out of the box, although you can only choose between that and September 1066.
• Military has been substantially revamped; you now use a mix of levies (semi-trained peasants) and men-at-arms (retinue replacements, basically, though more numerous). There's more available types of men-at-arms than there were retinues, and more types unlock with technology development over time.
• Religions have been fleshed out and made more dynamic; there's multiple branches of each major religion, and you can create your own branch, using similar mechanics to reforming a pagan religion in CK2 (with Holy Fury).
• Dynasties are more dynamic and impactful. Cadet branches of your dynasty can be founded, there's mechanics for the dynasty head gaining influence over other members of the same dynasty. There's also a whole new resource called Renown that accumulates from having members of your dynasty in power, which can be spent on various things like unlocking dynasty-wide bloodlines.

All in all, if you enjoyed CK2, I'd say it's well worth picking up.

[Silfir]

It's missing one feature from the entirety of CK II that I miss dearly, and that's random and shattered worlds, including a religion generator to take full advantage of the new customizable religions. The wackiness potential should be staggering. That and the relative lack of events content led to me putting it down for a while, waiting for new stuff to be added. But the fact I uninstalled CK II should say something.

The game is just much better designed from the ground up. Virtually everything that was substantially reworked is better for it - less complicated when being complicated didn't add anything, or expanded in all sorts of interesting ways. The new lifestyle trees combined with the stress mechanic all but ensure that you don't get stuck in the same optimized gameplay routine every time - there is now an active incentive to roleplay as your character as much as possible. There are actual downsides to being compassionate, just, or ambitious; and there are plenty of upsides to being an amoral bastard comfortable with blackmail, torture and murder. The option to do the latter is still available to the good guys, but they pay a price for it in terms of their mental health, as they should.

Even if there are still things you can do in CK II that are missing, the framework is more sound, and equivalents to the CK II+ or Historical Immersion Project mods should eventually find their way into the workshop. The one thing that's likely gone for good is the Anime Portraits mod. Thankfully the new 3D models don't look half bad.

[DanswordMaia]

Heh, does that really have more impact than the Steward's +taxes ability? I haven't noticed men-at-arms costing that much, at least in peacetime.



There's a lot of differences, but the biggest ones I can think of:

• Much more extensive character development, beyond what CK2 had with the Way of Life focuses. You select a focus (each of the 5 traits has 3 different focus options); that gives you experience over time, which lets you unlock Perks in a skill tree that give you various abilities.
• Play as any ruler out of the box (except merchant republics; Paradox is still working on revising their mechanics). Muslims, pagans, South Asians, steppe hordes, all playable right now.
• 867 start date is available out of the box, although you can only choose between that and September 1066.
• Military has been substantially revamped; you now use a mix of levies (semi-trained peasants) and men-at-arms (retinue replacements, basically, though more numerous). There's more available types of men-at-arms than there were retinues, and more types unlock with technology development over time.
• Religions have been fleshed out and made more dynamic; there's multiple branches of each major religion, and you can create your own branch, using similar mechanics to reforming a pagan religion in CK2 (with Holy Fury).
• Dynasties are more dynamic and impactful. Cadet branches of your dynasty can be founded, there's mechanics for the dynasty head gaining influence over other members of the same dynasty. There's also a whole new resource called Renown that accumulates from having members of your dynasty in power, which can be spent on various things like unlocking dynasty-wide bloodlines.

All in all, if you enjoyed CK2, I'd say it's well worth picking up.

I think this is enough to buy and try out the game.Thank you!

[Corvus]

I really enjoyed CK3 but it needs to get fleshed out a lot more. End game gets rather monotonous.

I didn't quite finish my first game - got to around 1400 or so and left it there. And that was after 200 years of not doing much but putter around. Did the 867 Makuria start and by 1400 I'd mended the schism, conquered Britannia and personally held Constantinople, researched all techs and had an unstoppable army despite my vassals not having to provide many levies at all.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I continued with the tutorial dynasty, and since this is my first CK game I don’t have anything to compare it to.

I feel like I’m waiting around for gold to accumulate a lot. Maybe the game is meant to be paced that way, or I am missing something obvious.

Overall though the game is fun so far. I’m happy to play past my mistakes because it leads to a more interesting story. Such as murdering my liege out of spite and then realising I couldn’t (or didn’t know how to) capitalise on that.

[IthilanorStPete]

I continued with the tutorial dynasty, and since this is my first CK game I don’t have anything to compare it to.

I feel like I’m waiting around for gold to accumulate a lot. Maybe the game is meant to be paced that way, or I am missing something obvious.

Overall though the game is fun so far. I’m happy to play past my mistakes because it leads to a more interesting story. Such as murdering my liege out of spite and then realising I couldn’t (or didn’t know how to) capitalise on that.

If you're having gold troubles, one thing you can do is take a Stewardship focus long enough to get the Golden Obligations perk from the Avaricious tree (lets you demand payments for hooks), then park your spymaster in a major court to discover secrets. It makes for a nice injection of cash every few months, which you can then invest in economy buildings in your holdings to increase your income.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

If you're having gold troubles, one thing you can do is take a Stewardship focus long enough to get the Golden Obligations perk from the Avaricious tree (lets you demand payments for hooks), then park your spymaster in a major court to discover secrets. It makes for a nice injection of cash every few months, which you can then invest in economy buildings in your holdings to increase your income.

That sounds like a neat trick; I’ll give it a try when I get the chance.

After a few upgrades things do speed up, but that early building period is a drag.

[Gwynchan'rGwyll]

I was gonna say, one of the biggest improvements over CK3 that hasn't been mentioned yet is the "secret-->hook" system. Meaningful subterfuge and espionage! Discover that your neighbour's spymaster is having a homosexual affair in order to blackmail them to murder your neighbour! It's brilliant, and the best spy system to date in any Paradox game.

[Corvus]

Dev Diaries are back - and so is duelling.

Its going to be in a free patch and they seem to have taken the duelling system from CK2 are really expanded it.

And there is an early look at the patch notes. Lots of stuff being worked on by the looks of it.

[IthilanorStPete]

So, version 1.3's out, along with the Northern Lords flavor pack. I don't think I'm going to get it any time soon, but I will when I have the urge to play in the area. Right now, I'm looking to start a new game, probably in the central/eastern Mediterranean; I was looking at 867 starts, but Confederate Partition everywhere really bites. Even in 1066, I'm thinking about starting with the de Hautevilles, but they're still stuck with Confederate Partition, and aren't likely to pick it up any time soon with William de Normandie being the culture head. Any suggestions?

EDIT: Some googling brings up the idea of playing Haesteinn of Nantes in the 867 start and going viking down south, which has some appeal. Any thoughts on that?

[mythmonster2]

And we've got our first full DLC announced: Royal Court! Trailer, Steam, article .

Seems really interesting from what they've announced: cultural hybridization and splitting, plus the royal court allowing for more management and roleplay.

[IthilanorStPete]

And we've got our first full DLC announced: Royal Court! Trailer, Steam, article .

Seems really interesting from what they've announced: cultural hybridization and splitting, plus the royal court allowing for more management and roleplay.

Not directly CK-related, but you forgot to mention frickin' Victoria 3. I never thought that was going to happen; I literally jumped for joy when I read that.

[Corvus]

Not what I was expecting for the first expansion but it sounds interesting. Certainly gives something else to do that isn't painting the map.

[Corvus]

New dev diary out, this time on the rework they are giving to cultures. All this is going to be in the free patch coming alongside the DLC.

This looks very, very good. Expanding on cultures, allowing cultures to diverge and change over time, and also cultural acceptance so you can go for multicultural societies rather than mass conversions. And learning languages is going to have a use now as well.

Oh, and my Nubians are getting their correct men-at-arms as well, rather than having placeholders by the looks of it.

[Gwynchan'rGwyll]

This Culture change is great, they're giving culture the same depth as religion! Even more, really. Unlike Religion, Cultures can change over time without being a new culture, while change in Religion can only be done through creating a Heresy. And it implies that cultural melting pots can be truly dynamic, through dynamically mixing the traditions and traits that the two mixing cultures have.

[mythmonster2]

This does seem really neat! In my last run, I started out in Nepal and ended up making an empire that straddled the Himalayas, so half my empire was Nepali and the other half was Tibetan. With the changes, it sounds like I would've be able to build some cultural acceptance between the two groups.

[IthilanorStPete]

Yeah, I'm really digging this new culture system; the lack of culture dynamism has always been an annoyance for me in CK2 and EU4. It's also great that it'll be part of the free patch, not DLC-locked.

[Corvus]

Some more information about the new cultural system has been released - specifically about hybrid and divergent cultures. These two parts will be part of the DLC even though the new cultural system will be part of the free patch.

Hybrid cultures are made by the fusion of two cultures already present in your realm (such as the historical Greco-Persian culture). You have to pick some elements from both or it isn't really a hybrid. The higher the acceptance of the other culture the cheaper is is to make.

Divergent is where you have a base culture and modify it, though some things like language and aesthetics might not hav options to change.

The AI will also make changes as well, resulting in new cultures popping up as the game progresses. And some historical cultures, such as English and Swedish, will also emerge if certain conditions are met.

Of interest to note, you don't have to be independent to undertake these changes - even vassals can do so. The chance for divergence does depend on how large it is, how unified it is and other factors - the Greeks tend to be unified under one ruler so they don't diverge much, but the Bedouins who are large, spread out and not all under one ruler, tend to diverge more.

[mythmonster2]

Also, you can't make hybrid cultures within the same heritage (formerly culture groups): so no Swedish-Norwegians. I'm hoping they've tweaked the AI right on this; I could easily imagine a scenario where they make it a bit too easy and every two-bit duke is boasting their own unique culture.

[Corvus]

From the looks of it, most dukes won't have access to two cultures in their duchy to form hybrids and diverging the cultures seems far more expensive prestige wise to undertake. We'll have to see though.

They also have said you can't hybrid a hybrid-culture, at least at base game settings. You change that in the settings (as well as frequency of cultures). Just be prepared to spot things like the Greco-Waddan-Sicilo-Greco-Bjarmo-Vepsian culture appearing - that was an example given.

[Corvus]

Artifacts are making a return with the upcoming DLC.

One of the major ways that they can be acquired is inspiration. In it a random dorf character has a mood inspiration and creates a random artifact. Hang on, thats Dwarf Fortress. If I can't get a throne made out of the skin and bones of my enemies, menacing with spikes fo even more bones, I will be disappointed.

On other matters, I fired up the game again after a break. I realised I'd never actually finished a play-through and got the achievement for ending the game. And then realised why I had sort of done so.

Basically, even on Ironman, I'd won so throughly that there was nothing really to do, beside painting the map, and I couldn't be bothered with that. I'm sitting on half a million gold, an army of 240K strong, with 5 of the 7 dynasty trees complete and a 6th started, with over 4000 living characters (from a start of just 2) and my vassals are more powerful than pretty much all other remaining nations. The faith is reformed, inheritance is now through designating my heir and they get everything and everyone loves me. The last 150 years (with about 40 more to go to the end) are pretty much non-stop going to feasts that my many vassal through or going on hunts while my vassals slowly take over the world.

[Rockphed]

Artifacts are making a return with the upcoming DLC.

One of the major ways that they can be acquired is inspiration. In it a random dorf character has a mood inspiration and creates a random artifact. Hang on, thats Dwarf Fortress. If I can't get a throne made out of the skin and bones of my enemies, menacing with spikes fo even more bones, I will be disappointed.

On other matters, I fired up the game again after a break. I realised I'd never actually finished a play-through and got the achievement for ending the game. And then realised why I had sort of done so.

Basically, even on Ironman, I'd won so throughly that there was nothing really to do, beside painting the map, and I couldn't be bothered with that. I'm sitting on half a million gold, an army of 240K strong, with 5 of the 7 dynasty trees complete and a 6th started, with over 4000 living characters (from a start of just 2) and my vassals are more powerful than pretty much all other remaining nations. The faith is reformed, inheritance is now through designating my heir and they get everything and everyone loves me. The last 150 years (with about 40 more to go to the end) are pretty much non-stop going to feasts that my many vassal through or going on hunts while my vassals slowly take over the world.

Sounds like you need to figure out how to increase the difficulty. Which is one of the things that CK2 has that nobody ever uses, so there might be an actual difficulty slider in CK3. In CK2 it just changes reinforcement rates and morale (as I recall), but it is more than nothing.

I would like to hear the story of this epic world conquest. Let your bards be sent forward to regale us with your dynasty's tale of victory and woe.