Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CVIII

[The Viscount]

This one's easy. They're separate feats and do not interact with one another.

This is correct.

[Halrax]

Just got several hours in (I'm new to the GITP formatting) and realized that the Trollblooded feat is from Dragon Magazine and thus not allowed. Would leaving it in cause the build to be disqualified or merely subject to a penalty to Elegance? Mainly don't want to go through the pain of restructuring the build, but I can do it if it's necessary.

[H_H_F_F]

Just got several hours in (I'm new to the GITP formatting) and realized that the Trollblooded feat is from Dragon Magazine and thus not allowed. Would leaving it in cause the build to be disqualified or merely subject to a penalty to Elegance? Mainly don't want to go through the pain of restructuring the build, but I can do it if it's necessary.

Just as a note, try not to be as specific when you can; there's a rule regarding anonymity, and if one of the builds will have troll-blooded, there'll be no doubt as to who's is it.

Now, as for the question itself: while flaws can be a valid choice to sacrifice elegance, purposefully submitting a build with disallowed content is not. It would be like purposefully skipping a qualification, or making a "mistake" with your ability scores. Don't use unallowed material.

[AvatarVecna]

Just as a note, try not to be as specific when you can; there's a rule regarding anonymity, and if one of the builds will have troll-blooded, there'll be no doubt as to who's is it.

Now, as for the question itself: while flaws can be a valid choice to sacrifice elegance, purposefully submitting a build with disallowed content is not. It would be like purposefully skipping a qualification, or making a "mistake" with your ability scores. Don't use unallowed material.

I'll add onto this by saying that one of the biases you can get in a judge is that, if a build is blatantly illegal in some fashion, the whole build ends up getting judged more harshly, even on aspects utterly unrelated to the illegal material. If I were to speculate on the why, I would say that judges are frequently people who try to cook for various contests but aren't able to be satisfied with their dishes but still want to contribute, so seeing somebody take illegal material in order to make the building easier feels...not really insulting, but kinda "I ended up scrapping my build because playing the rules couldn't make something I liked, how come you just get to break them", and this kinda subconsciously seeps into the whole judgement.

To bring back something I said in the previous contest, this is the equivalent for Elegance to the thing about Power I discussed: because 1 is the minimum, if one build is so un-Elegant that it basically redefines the low-point, it can arbitrarily raise the judge's opinion about the relative Elegance of all other builds.

(Avoiding that particular knee-jerk reaction is part of why I do the very orderly judging I do - its hard to give a slight boost to other Elegance scores when you've got a pretty solid history on judging Elegance a certain way. And even then, this particular phenomenon tends to come up in the power section of my judging anyway.)

[Halrax]

Yeah, okay, that makes sense. Sorry about mentioning the specifics, I'm still very new to this. I have to go back now and figure out what to replace it with, and edit the rest of the description accordingly (which is fine, it's just annoying that I forgot to check the source when starting it). Thanks for explaining.

[holbita]

Hi guys, long long time lurker on the forum, very recent poster. I was actually playing a level 13 Crimson Scourge in a game a few months ago so this seems like the perfect excuse to showcase it on the forum. This would be my first time joining the competion, I am curious to see how my build will fare compared to the rest of entries... I don't expect it will do a very good job but... we will try at least!

[H_H_F_F]

Hi guys, long long time lurker on the forum, very recent poster. I was actually playing a level 13 Crimson Scourge in a game a few months ago so this seems like the perfect excuse to showcase it on the forum. This would be my first time joining the competion, I am curious to see how my build will fare compared to the rest of entries... I don't expect it will do a very good job but... we will try at least!

Just make sure you carefully read the rules of the competition, and adjust your build if needed.

Good luck! And welcome!

[KrimsonNekros]

I am finding myself in a most unusual position. most of these competitions I'm fighting to get all my feats in and fitted properly. Now I have more feats than i know what to do with..... HELP!

[Gruftzwerg]

I am finding myself in a most unusual position. most of these competitions I'm fighting to get all my feats in and fitted properly. Now I have more feats than i know what to do with..... HELP!

lul, I still have the same problems as every to slim down my feat selection...^^
I would like to help, but for a fair competition we should avoid giving tips here.. ;)

[The Viscount]

I hear there's some really cool feats in the srd that give you bonuses to TWO different skills!

[AvatarVecna]

I hear there's some really cool feats in the srd that give you bonuses to TWO different skills!

I hesitate to even mention them, but there's some 3.0 feats that should be legal via grandfathering. They have base Fort prereqs, but they're essentially like taking Toughness multiple times with a single feat slot!

[holbita]

I have heard legendary tales about characters who took such feats... about the way they died or sometimes about how little they contributed to the group... legendary tales indeed.

[Piggy Knowles]

Somehow after not being able to muster a completed entry at all in time last round despite loving the ingredient, I've managed to complete and submit a build that I'm honestly pretty tickled with already despite more than 3 weeks remaining. Should be a fun one, interested to see what everyone else came up with.

[Gruftzwerg]

Somehow after not being able to muster a completed entry at all in time last round despite loving the ingredient, I've managed to complete and submit a build that I'm honestly pretty tickled with already despite more than 3 weeks remaining. Should be a fun one, interested to see what everyone else came up with.

I should be done soon. Need to write it up thou.

But somehow I'm afraid that others will have the same/similar idea because it is to tempting xD

[eversilentone]

You do not receive the appropriate feat, only proficiency. Sorry.

No problem, thanks for the quick response - that's one build already nixed lol!

[Hiro Quester]

But somehow I'm afraid that others will have the same/similar idea because it is to tempting xD

That’s how really cool builds get Vizinni’d into sacrificing awesomeness for what the creator thinks is “originality”.

Quite a few times I had an idea I thought was pretty obvious, so didn’t pursue, yet saw nothing like that in the actual submissions.

[Zaq]

Vizziniing too hard is how we end up with stuff like two prostitutes with Vow of Poverty (ardent dilettante) or two dark changeling trapsmiths (silver key).

Just go for it.

[WhamBamSam]

Vizziniing too hard is how we end up with stuff like two prostitutes with Vow of Poverty (ardent dilettante) or two dark changeling trapsmiths (silver key).

Just go for it.

Two Dark Changeling Trapsmiths out of four entries no less!

[KrimsonNekros]

Yeah I haveto fight Vizinni quite a bit on mine. Keeps screaming that's too obvious.

[The Viscount]

Two Dark Changeling Trapsmiths out of four entries no less!

Don't forget last round, where we had 12 entries and no Beguilers.

[Zaq]

Or my E6 Fighter round that had ten entries and zero dungeoncrashers.

[daremetoidareyo]

Or my E6 Fighter round that had ten entries and zero dungeoncrashers.

I liked that round. Dungeoncrasher wasn’t inspiring because of how much noise it gets on the boards.

[Sian]

Been poking a bit at it, and my first 3 (significantly different ) ideas as of how to utilize ended up being dumpster fires, being completely worthless since it was near-impossible to actually do what i had in mind

[The Viscount]

I liked that round. Dungeoncrasher wasn’t inspiring because of how much noise it gets on the boards.

Dungeoncrasher is for dumb jocks! People of culture use Zhentarim Fighter.

Been poking a bit at it, and my first 3 (significantly different ) ideas as of how to utilize ended up being dumpster fires, being completely worthless since it was near-impossible to actually do what i had in mind

Sounds like my normal Iron Chef build process!

[Sian]

Think i found a way to solve one of my ideas, but ran into another problem

Why the hell does the class ask for Handle Animal 8? ... I could understand if it was Gather Info 8, and possibly Sense Motive and/or Diplomacy, but Handle Animal?

[daremetoidareyo]

Think i found a way to solve one of my ideas, but ran into another problem

Why the hell does the class ask for Handle Animal 8? ... I could understand if it was Gather Info 8, and possibly Sense Motive and/or Diplomacy, but Handle Animal?

And you don’t use it at all for any class features!

Maybe they thought chattel was Middle English for cattle

[KrimsonNekros]

And you don’t use it at all for any class features!

Maybe they thought chattel was Middle English for cattle

I have my suspicions why they did it, but it might go against the speculation rules to state the reason

[The Viscount]

Think i found a way to solve one of my ideas, but ran into another problem

Why the hell does the class ask for Handle Animal 8? ... I could understand if it was Gather Info 8, and possibly Sense Motive and/or Diplomacy, but Handle Animal?

Now you see the hidden evil of the ingredient. It commits the greatest sin of all, wasting your time!

I've got nothing, other than to enforce a means of entry that as KrimsonNekros mentioned. Especially weird considering this is in Cityscape, the book of city stuff.

[Zaq]

Yeah, I have a guess as to why Handle Animal is required. KN and I are probably thinking along the same lines. If it was done intentionally, it's evil but actually kind of clever. If it was done haphazardly, it's evil and stupid.

[Hiro Quester]

Think i found a way to solve one of my ideas, but ran into another problem

Why the hell does the class ask for Handle Animal 8? ... I could understand if it was Gather Info 8, and possibly Sense Motive and/or Diplomacy, but Handle Animal?

This has been a roadblock for me on a few ideas. Most of the cool and promising ways to start this class have Handle Animal as a cross-class skill. It undermines a few combinations that could be interesting Scourges, if not for the need to have 8 ranks is a skill unrelated to the urban investigator theme.

Dipping to get HA in-class seems inelegant, and I needed all 10 levels in other classes to set up the aspects of the SI.

this has been an issue for two different potential builds I have abandoned.