A quick question

[bugsysservant]

Can you delay taking a feat voluntarily? Specifically, can you put off taking a feat in order to meet its prerequisites at a later level?

For instance: if I were playing a wizard 1 (precocious apprentice) cleric 3/mystic theurge 10 (yes, its cheesy, but also hypothetical) and I wanted to invest heavily in DMM, could I reserve a feat, from being human or another source, in order to meet its requirements later? And if not, would you, as a DM, allow it?

[Yuki Akuma]

Nope.

Obligatory text...

[OneWinged4ngel]

Can you delay taking a feat voluntarily? Specifically, can you put off taking a feat in order to meet its prerequisites at a later level?

For instance: if I were playing a wizard 1 (precocious apprentice) cleric 3/mystic theurge 10 (yes, its cheesy, but also hypothetical) and I wanted to invest heavily in DMM, could I reserve a feat, from being human or another source, in order to meet its requirements later? And if not, would you, as a DM, allow it?

Mystic Theurge isn't as cheesy as you think it is (straight Wizard or Cleric is better!). Also, no, it's not allowed and yes, that can be annoying sometimes.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Mystic Theurge isn't as cheesy as you think it is (straight Wizard or Cleric is better!).

I believe "cheesy" referred to the use of Precocious Apprentice.

[Temp]

(straight Wizard or Cleric is better!).

This might actually pay off with a near-epic summoning build along the lines of UA Conjuration Specialist 1/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 6/Malconvoker 10.
Six extra levels of Wizard spellcasting at the cost of a feat's always a good thing.


But to the OP:Feats don't work that way.

...Though some classes allow you a delay mechanism for feats. The Loremaster, for one. The Swiftblade, too, if a character snags Spring Attack and Bounding Assault before they're granted as class abilities.

[bugsysservant]

Mystic Theurge isn't as cheesy as you think it is (straight Wizard or Cleric is better!). Also, no, it's not allowed and yes, that can be annoying sometimes.

Actually, a non core mystic theurge can be pretty powerful. One of my personal favorite versatility builds is wizard 3/anima mage 4/ur priest 2/ mystic theurge 8/incantrix 3 (I think, I don't have my books with me) ninth level arcane and divine spellcasting, binds as a level four binder, divine metamagic, and a host of metamagic cheese. And it isn't possible without mystic theurge

[Yuki Akuma]

Seriously. Straight Wizard or Cleric is better than any build involving a Mystic Theurge. Having tons of spells does not make you powerful if you don't have enough time to cast them.

[bugsysservant]

Seriously. Straight Wizard or Cleric is better than any build involving a Mystic Theurge. Having tons of spells does not make you powerful if you don't have enough time to cast them.

DMM quickened persistent time stop. Can a wizard beat that?

[Yuki Akuma]

You can't apply Persistant Spell to Time Stop, and why would you need to Quicken it anyway?

[Keld Denar]

Actually, a non core mystic theurge can be pretty powerful. One of my personal favorite versatility builds is wizard 3/anima mage 4/ur priest 2/ mystic theurge 8/incantrix 3 (I think, I don't have my books with me) ninth level arcane and divine spellcasting, binds as a level four binder, divine metamagic, and a host of metamagic cheese. And it isn't possible without mystic theurge

See what you did? You involved Ur-Priest in there...That alone is cause to make rocks fall. Ur-Priest should have never been printed. It breaks almost every precident and convention ever set in D&D. Anything involving Ur-Priest is bound to be cheesy. Therefore, I rule your arguement that MT is broken is void on the grounds that you use Ur-Priest. That's like saying the CW Samurai is broken, because you can take Ur-Priest levels eventually. Dismissed.

EDIT: And you CAN technicallly use DMM on Time Stop. Only if you get it from a domain slot though. I don't have access to the exact wording on the spell (stupid work...) but if its an instantanious spell with a 1d4+1 round effect, it can't be persisted, but if its a 1d4+1 round duration, it can. I'm inclined to lean to the former, but I could be wrong with no way to cite it.

[bugsysservant]

You can't apply Persistant Spell to Time Stop, and why would you need to Quicken it anyway?

Why on earth can't you persist time stop? It has a duration: 1d4+1 rounds. Thus you act freely for 1d4+1 rounds. If you persisted it you would act freely for 24 hours. And even if you can't persist it, you can still maximize it. He could keep a persist foresight effect up, have celerity memorized, and automatically act freely for four rounds.

And I quicken because I can.

[bugsysservant]

EDIT: And you CAN technicallly use DMM on Time Stop. Only if you get it from a domain slot though. I don't have access to the exact wording on the spell (stupid work...) but if its an instantanious spell with a 1d4+1 round effect, it can't be persisted, but if its a 1d4+1 round duration, it can. I'm inclined to lean to the former, but I could be wrong with no way to cite it.

Actually, I am pretty sure you can use DMM on any spell you can cast. Thus a cleric 1/wizard 19 could cast a maximized (or whatever) time stop.

And if I am wrong, I am terribly sorry and will retract my statement, but I am confident that that is how DMM works.

[Leon]

When it comes to DMM and what combo's can be done or not, remember that the DMM has the final say

[bugsysservant]

When it comes to DMM and what combo's can be done or not, remember that the DMM has the final say

No DM in their right mind would allow it, since it absurdly overpowered, but by RAW it works.

[Overlard]

DMM has no place in games I run. Despite one player's insistence, making turn undead only useful for turning undead does not make the cleric under-powered.

[brian c]

Why on earth can't you persist time stop? It has a duration: 1d4+1 rounds. Thus you act freely for 1d4+1 rounds. If you persisted it you would act freely for 24 hours. And even if you can't persist it, you can still maximize it. He could keep a persist foresight effect up, have celerity memorized, and automatically act freely for four rounds.

And I quicken because I can.

Actually, I believe this is addressed somewhere in the FAQ. Basically, since the "duration" of Time Stop isn't real time, only "apparent time", you can't persist it. Really though, since you can't hurt anyone during a Time Stop, what the hell would you do if it lasted 24 hours? That would get kinda boring.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Lay a ton of delayed blast fireballs, perhaps? Or a lot of Explosive runes? with 24 timestopped hours, the world is your whore.

[Hranat]

Well, no matter what the books say, a good DM would never allow you to Persist a time stop. That's just game balance.

[brian c]

Lay a ton of delayed blast fireballs, perhaps? Or a lot of Explosive runes? with 24 timestopped hours, the world is your whore.

How many is a bunch? Can't be more than the number of spells you have left, unless you think you're gonna stop and go to sleep and get your spells back, then cast them again. I doubt any DM would allow that (although if it's a DM that let you persist Time Stop in the first place, then who knows what craziness that person would allow)

Well, no matter what the books say, a good DM would never allow you to Persist a time stop. That's just game balance.

If good DMs preserve game balance, then persisting Time Stop is the least of their worries. How about Time Stop in the first place, or DMM in the first place? My point is though, that according to WotC you can't persist Time Stop; people tend to be more accepting of a ruling from Wizards than from their DM if they think their DM is trying to screw them over.

[Keld Denar]

Actually, I am pretty sure you can use DMM on any spell you can cast. Thus a cleric 1/wizard 19 could cast a maximized (or whatever) time stop.

And if I am wrong, I am terribly sorry and will retract my statement, but I am confident that that is how DMM works.

Re-read DMM, it only applies to Divine Spells. I believe this is further covered in the FAQ. Therefore, the only way you could DMM a Time Stop would be to have the domain that grants you it (Time, Planning, several others).