OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread

[Mic_128]

3. We have not heard Team Evil discuss traps as much of an issue, and we did not see them have any concern about crossing the trap that appears to be present at the beginning of every door. Therefore, the trap apparently either does nothing when activated or does something not noticeable to the recipients (but noticeable to those that bypassed it)

Clearly the latter, as we just saw Team Evil all wander across the active trap and not notice.

4. One of the things I hate most about traps is that magical ones should be detectable using detect magic. I've got to imagine that at some point in all their travels through the multiple dungeons that Team Evil has used some detect magic like ability around the traps, and apparently not found them as they don't seem to be worried.

It's possible that the dimensional stone could be screwing with that. It's also possible that the bugbears who live there had spotted it at some point, but thought it didn't do anything, since they're able to go in and out unhindered.

I think the rune trap may actually be deactivated in every tunnel, and thus not be magical - until a rogue successfully activates it, then the trap teleports them somewhere on this plane. This means that without someone who can arm/disarm the trap, there is no way for a team without a rogue to get to the true dungeon.

But anyone with the skill to see the trap and successfully mess with it would clearly be able to see whether a trap is active or not, and Haley can see, understand and deactivate complex magical traps.

The problem with this is that, it is stupid to have all these tunnels and have all of them lead to the one true dungeon if your rogue can disable the trap. That totally removes the value of having all the different dungeons as camouflage, if any dungeon with a rogue takes you to the right location.

I doubt the Order is going to turn around and find the gate right there. It's highly likely that you just need a (really high-level) Rogue to actually get to the dungeon proper. The current thought is that you need a full, balanced party to make it though, just like the Order of the Scribble that Sereni laments seeing break up. It could also give her a way to go in and check on he gate itself.

The think I'm interested in seeing show up is the fiendish's trio's "direct intervention" which I assume was behind the abduction of the paladins, and I assume the return of Sabine with her Nale reconfigured in some way, I assume before the big show down, or maybe simultaneous with the big showdown with Team Evil...

I don't think so. Their speech balloons are completely different to every demon we've seen.

[danielxcutter]

Hold up, Detect Magic doesn't help with finding magic traps? Sure, it's not going to be enough since magic aura and the like are a thing, but I thought it at least helped with finding magic traps if not actually disabling them.

[BarakDeathBlade]

OK, I have a serious question, and I do understand that nobody has an answer to it...

What would have happened if Roy had leaned a foot or so further forward? His sword "went" somewhere, but Xykon didn't see it. If his hands had touched the "portal" would he have then gone back to the entryway? Or just followed his sword to where? Even Xykon would notice a green glowing sword appearing out of nowhere and hacking at him.

Hmm, this seems familiar, what's the name of that guy with the green hilt sword? The one who took my crown, but I totally took it back, man I was totally badass that day...

Or do they need the dead rat head replaced to get "back" to the entryway?

[Metastachydium]

OK, I have a serious question, and I do understand that nobody has an answer to it...

What would have happened if Roy had leaned a foot or so further forward? His sword "went" somewhere, but Xykon didn't see it. If his hands had touched the "portal" would he have then gone back to the entryway? Or just followed his sword to where? Even Xykon would notice a green glowing sword appearing out of nowhere and hacking at him.

MOst likely what the Order saw Team Evil through is just a screen of sorts, no thicker than a membrane. The space behind it should be another section of the same corridor the Order is currently standing in.

Or do they need the dead rat head replaced to get "back" to the entryway?

That, or they have to disarm the trap completely. (Hm. The latter should also disable the portal/whatever Team Evil walked through, so disarming the trap should prevent them from leaving the dungeon.)

[TheNecrocomicon]

So I've been trying to work my way through what is happening here with the Trap.

Seems to me that it's a one-way portal that only permits access to this other tunnel or system if you manage to find and disarm/bypass the trap. The reverse direction allows surveillance but not travel.

The think I'm interested in seeing show up is the fiendish's trio's "direct intervention" which I assume was behind the abduction of the paladins, and I assume the return of Sabine with her Nale reconfigured in some way, I assume before the big show down, or maybe simultaneous with the big showdown with Team Evil...

Frankly, I think that the IFCC's promised "vessel" is going to turn out to be Tarquin, who Sabine would abduct as revenge for him killing Nale. This fulfills two things: (1) an ignominious death and possession for Tarquin, ruining his dreams of ruling like an emperor or his legacy living on to be a legendary villain figure, and (2) an eventual final tussle between "Tarquin" (or whatever the IFCC call their vessel) and Elan, which is kind of what Tarquin wanted anyways.

[Peelee]

Frankly, I think that the IFCC's promised "vessel" is going to turn out to be Tarquin

I'll take that bet.

[Goblin_Priest]

Seems to me that it's a one-way portal that only permits access to this other tunnel or system if you manage to find and disarm/bypass the trap. The reverse direction allows surveillance but not travel.



Frankly, I think that the IFCC's promised "vessel" is going to turn out to be Tarquin, who Sabine would abduct as revenge for him killing Nale. This fulfills two things: (1) an ignominious death and possession for Tarquin, ruining his dreams of ruling like an emperor or his legacy living on to be a legendary villain figure, and (2) an eventual final tussle between "Tarquin" (or whatever the IFCC call their vessel) and Elan, which is kind of what Tarquin wanted anyways.

Except that'd be giving him all he wants, whereas he was set up to precisely get none of what he wants.

Tarquin already stated that it wasn't about the destination, but about the ride, for him. He's stated that he's at peace with the fact that he'll eventually meet his end, a probably violent one, but that it doesn't really matter, because he'll have enjoyed life up to that point. For him to die, only to serve as a plot-centric vessel and greater threat, would only further feed his ego about his place in the story/universe.

I don't expect him to make any further appearance.

[BarakDeathBlade]

Except that'd be giving him all he wants, whereas he was set up to precisely get none of what he wants.

Tarquin already stated that it wasn't about the destination, but about the ride, for him. He's stated that he's at peace with the fact that he'll eventually meet his end, a probably violent one, but that it doesn't really matter, because he'll have enjoyed life up to that point. For him to die, only to serve as a plot-centric vessel and greater threat, would only further feed his ego about his place in the story/universe.

I don't expect him to make any further appearance.

I'm inclined to agree with your last statement, and don't know what the fiends have planned (Stop the end of the world? Unleash the Snarl? Murder the Dark One? Hold out for favors in the New World? Not a clue...)

But they could promise Tarquin complete luxury for all the time this world exists. And they could be completely honest, even knowing about, say, the heart attack he will have next Tuesday... This is not outside reality.

Likely? No. In character? Maybe, but I suspect not, Tarquin likes the luxury of control, not a false luxury of illusionary control.

[WanderingMist]

Except that'd be giving him all he wants, whereas he was set up to precisely get none of what he wants.

Tarquin already stated that it wasn't about the destination, but about the ride, for him. He's stated that he's at peace with the fact that he'll eventually meet his end, a probably violent one, but that it doesn't really matter, because he'll have enjoyed life up to that point. For him to die, only to serve as a plot-centric vessel and greater threat, would only further feed his ego about his place in the story/universe.

I don't expect him to make any further appearance.

Yeah, Tarquin wants an epic final death scene. If he shows up again, let it be by doing something like drowning (which means dying by inhaling water, I see way too many people use it as inhaling water but surviving. Yes, I have similar problems with people saying electrocuted to mean shocked.) because his armor is too heavy after wading into a river.

[danielxcutter]

Yeah, Tarquin wants an epic final death scene. If he shows up again, let it be by doing something like drowning (which means dying by inhaling water, I see way too many people use it as inhaling water but surviving. Yes, I have similar problems with people saying electrocuted to mean shocked.) because his armor is too heavy after wading into a river.

Tarquin seems to be wearing a mithral breastplate though; he used Evasion to ignore the damage of Malack's Flame Strike IIRC.

[KorvinStarmast]

I'll take that bet.

Easiest ten quataloos you ever made.

[hungrycrow]

Except that'd be giving him all he wants, whereas he was set up to precisely get none of what he wants.

Tarquin already stated that it wasn't about the destination, but about the ride, for him. He's stated that he's at peace with the fact that he'll eventually meet his end, a probably violent one, but that it doesn't really matter, because he'll have enjoyed life up to that point. For him to die, only to serve as a plot-centric vessel and greater threat, would only further feed his ego about his place in the story/universe.

I don't expect him to make any further appearance.

I feel like Tarquin has to come back, not because his arc wasn't finished, but because Miron and Laurin left a huge dangling plot thread. I can't believe they'd dodge an attack from a reality-eating abomination and then just go back to business-as-usual until the epilogue.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I feel like Tarquin has to come back, not because his arc wasn't finished, but because Miron and Laurin left a huge dangling plot thread. I can't believe they'd dodge an attack from a reality-eating abomination and then just go back to business-as-usual until the epilogue.

I'm sure that those that survived the attack will have plenty on their hands - anything from trying to fight back to just putting up a "don't approach" sign and going back to their palaces, abandoning the idea of building anything there.

But their story is not this story. Laurin got attacked to ratchet up the danger of the rifts, not because this story cares about the fate of Laurin. Thus, the only reason we even know about this is to understand that the Snarl is now awake, and that the order will have to deal with that at some point, in proper foreshadowy fashion. But I would be very surprised is, of all the rifts the OotS could chose to have their last stand at, they did not go with the one they are at now, instead trekking all the way down to the desert. There is just no reason for them to do so, and thus, yes, I do not expect to hear anything from the Vector legion before the epilogue, and maybe not even then.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

I feel like Tarquin has to come back, not because his arc wasn't finished, but because Miron and Laurin left a huge dangling plot thread. I can't believe they'd dodge an attack from a reality-eating abomination and then just go back to business-as-usual until the epilogue.

Miron and Laurin surviving are as critical to the plot as the sandtroopers that survived a firefight with Han in the Mos Eisley docking bay were critical to the plot of the original Star Wars.

[TheNecrocomicon]

I'll take that bet.

Okay then, to go beyond the standard fare of shooting down any theory I have, who do you think it's going to turn out to be?

(I mean, I'll remember that total confidence in the remote off-chance that I turn out to be correct, though if I am, I'm not going to go strutting around with it in my signature like that person proclaiming how they called that the Scrying sensor belonged to the Drow wizard guy.)

Except that'd be giving him all he wants, whereas he was set up to precisely get none of what he wants.

Tarquin already stated that it wasn't about the destination, but about the ride, for him. He's stated that he's at peace with the fact that he'll eventually meet his end, a probably violent one, but that it doesn't really matter, because he'll have enjoyed life up to that point. For him to die, only to serve as a plot-centric vessel and greater threat, would only further feed his ego about his place in the story/universe.

I don't expect him to make any further appearance.

What Tarquin wants, for the record, is to either rule as a king or be immortalized as a legend. Going out as the hijacked patsy vessel of a greater villain (or really, three of them at once) denies him both of those outcomes.

The IFCC aren't just going to take the first random person they can get their hands on to be their "vessel". And since we've just been through an entire book centering around one of the Order of the Stick getting hijacked (i.e. Durkon), narratively it's extremely unlikely to be one of their party. But given how remarkably vaguely the IFCC were talking about it when we last saw them, it practically guarantees that their chosen target is somebody we've already met in the webcomic. And since the Order of the Scribble are pretty much all either permanently dead or exist in soul-form inside a gem, the most all-around powerful mortal individual that I can think of would be Tarquin -- mystical power is what the fiends have in spades, so they need physical prowess to match.

The brown-voiced fiend (sorry, can't recall the name) even makes a pointed remark about Sabine "mixing business with pleasure". I'm not sure what would give Sabine more pleasure right now than exacting crushing revenge upon the guy who very recently, casually and fatally stabbed her lover in the gut without blinking an eye. Maybe he's on the ropes against this rebel coalition, and she offers him a deal for power and/or a way out that gets him ensnared by the IFCC. Or maybe she plays on his ego to seduce him the old-fashioned (for a succubus) way.

Narrative structure even practically dictates that the stakes and tension and personal-ness of the story is only going to keep mounting from here. Having a family member of one of the Order come back in a warped way and as a major threat would certainly achieve some of that.

[bunsen_h]

Miron and Laurin surviving are as critical to the plot as the sandtroopers that survived a firefight with Han in the Mos Eisley docking bay were critical to the plot of the original Star Wars.

Tag and Bink?

(So far as I know, that wasn't one of the scenes that they stumbled into, but they did manage to "appear" in an awful lot of others.)

[Peelee]

Okay then, to go beyond the standard fare of shooting down any theory I have, who do you think it's going to turn out to be?

I do not have enough confidence to call out anyone (or anything) as a guess. I do, however, have enough confidence to say "not Tarquin."

(I mean, I'll remember that total confidence in the remote off-chance that I turn out to be correct, though if I am, I'm not going to go strutting around with it in my signature like that person proclaiming how they called that the Scrying sensor belonged to the Drow wizard guy.)

The only person I recall having anything about D'zitri's scrying sensor did it because of the continual confusion about it long after the Giant explained it, and had nothing to do about calling it before the fact.

[Rockphed]

What is all this mention of an IFCC vessel? I don't remember that...

[danielxcutter]

What is all this mention of an IFCC vessel? I don't remember that...

About the strip where V got some rubies from... I think Shira? The one with the twin rogue sons.

[Peelee]

What is all this mention of an IFCC vessel? I don't remember that...

1183.

#NotTarquin

[Metastachydium]

Mark my words, the vessel and the mystery ally are one and the same. (Alternatively, the vessel is Thog.)

[Yendor]

Except that'd be giving him all he wants, whereas he was set up to precisely get none of what he wants.

Tarquin already stated that it wasn't about the destination, but about the ride, for him. He's stated that he's at peace with the fact that he'll eventually meet his end, a probably violent one, but that it doesn't really matter, because he'll have enjoyed life up to that point. For him to die, only to serve as a plot-centric vessel and greater threat, would only further feed his ego about his place in the story/universe.

I don't expect him to make any further appearance.

Tarquin may say that, and he may even believe it, but in the end it's more likely to be another of his self-delusions. At any rate, his fate has been set up: to be defeated by a bunch of C-listers whom he's personally wronged but never considered a threat. It's a mess of his own making, and an entirely fitting and appropriate end for him. Whether he agrees or not.

[Rockphed]

Tarquin may say that, and he may even believe it, but in the end it's more likely to be another of his self-delusions. At any rate, his fate has been set up: to be defeated by a bunch of C-listers whom he's personally wronged but never considered a threat. It's a mess of his own making, and an entirely fitting and appropriate end for him. Whether he agrees or not.

Indeed. I expect the extent of Tarquin's future role in the comic to be Ian, the 2 bounty hunters, and Tarquin's latest object of desire telling the remnants of the Order of the Stick how they defeated him. His headless, decayed, and mutilated corpse might also be on display outside the city wall, but I doubt that any of the leaders of his demise are gristly enough to do so.

[Goblin_Priest]

I feel like Tarquin has to come back, not because his arc wasn't finished, but because Miron and Laurin left a huge dangling plot thread. I can't believe they'd dodge an attack from a reality-eating abomination and then just go back to business-as-usual until the epilogue.

Do we know that they survived?

I'm sure that those that survived the attack will have plenty on their hands - anything from trying to fight back to just putting up a "don't approach" sign and going back to their palaces, abandoning the idea of building anything there.

But their story is not this story. Laurin got attacked to ratchet up the danger of the rifts, not because this story cares about the fate of Laurin. Thus, the only reason we even know about this is to understand that the Snarl is now awake, and that the order will have to deal with that at some point, in proper foreshadowy fashion. But I would be very surprised is, of all the rifts the OotS could chose to have their last stand at, they did not go with the one they are at now, instead trekking all the way down to the desert. There is just no reason for them to do so, and thus, yes, I do not expect to hear anything from the Vector legion before the epilogue, and maybe not even then.

Grey Wolf

That scene, in my eyes, serves to show the reader that the rifts are indeed a threat, because all other actual depictions of the rift had shown non-hostile/non-dangerous things, such as a planet. Without that scene, a lot of us would, by now, probably start thinking that the rifts aren't a danger at all, or at least not the danger they were put out to be, and thus dramatic tension would be lost. Took a while for the billionth world reveal. In my eyes, that scene served to re-assert the hazards of the rifts and confirm some of the backstories that were narrated.

Miron and Laurin surviving are as critical to the plot as the sandtroopers that survived a firefight with Han in the Mos Eisley docking bay were critical to the plot of the original Star Wars.

I pretty much agree with this. Their last scene at the rift was precisely about the rift, not about them whatsoever. They no longer hold any importance to the story, unless they decide to come and avenge Tarquin and Malak, but I have a hard time seeing that happen.

What Tarquin wants, for the record, is to either rule as a king or be immortalized as a legend. Going out as the hijacked patsy vessel of a greater villain (or really, three of them at once) denies him both of those outcomes.

I feel like you should reread that page. "The beauty of it all" was not really part of his argument justifying his actions, he just tacks it on at the end like a cherry on a sundae. Prior to that he basically spends 10 panels explaining to Elan how life is good for the villain and that its conclusion is of little importance.

[BarakDeathBlade]

1183.

#NotTarquin

Thanks, I'd forgotten that.

So, for whatever reason, destroying this world is part of the IFCC's victory conditions. Good to note.

[KorvinStarmast]

(Alternatively, the vessel is Thog.)

Nope; I am pretty sure that Rich has left Thog under that rubble, and I won't explain why since it gets into some very contentious real world stuff.

The vessel and the 'once ever seen' character: not betting against. Not enough information.

As to Tarquin: he's the guy who thinks it's all about him. A narratively economical way to defeat him is to simply leave him out of the story, except as a footnote or an "oh by the way" at the end, and shine the spotlight on pretty much anyone and everyone else.

[georger0171]

Here are some potential people for the IFCC to use as a "vessel."

• Daigo
• Kazumi Kato
• Mystery dude from 1189

Just some options, but they should be good discussion points.

[KorvinStarmast]

Here are some potential people for the IFCC to use as a "vessel."

• Daigo
• Kazumi Kato
• Mystery dude from 1189

Just some options, but they should be good discussion points.

1. Nope.
2. Nope.
3. Nope, though them perhaps being on a task for the fiends isn't beyond consideration.

[TheNecrocomicon]

Here are some potential people for the IFCC to use as a "vessel."

• Daigo
• Kazumi Kato
• Mystery dude from 1189

Just some options, but they should be good discussion points.

Daigo and Kazumi are just standard mortal warriors, even if they have a handful of class levels each -- nothing that should really stand out to the IFCC in a world full of mortals.

As for the mystery beings from #1189, the IFCC might not know about their involvement at all, or even their existence in the first place. Plus there's been zero explanation or revelations so far about the nature of the two beings' existence or whether there are more out there. Similar reasoning to why I figure the MitD is unlikely to be the IFCC's promised "vessel" despite its obviously powerful nature, though maybe the MitD is the one who will go head-to-head with the IFCC after they make their arrival onto the mortal plane.

Besides Tarquin, the only other really good IFCC-worthy "vessel" candidate that comes to mind for me is that super-empowered eldritch-knight dwarf warrior who got Plane Shifted to an endless hellish pain-scape (courtesy of one of the vampire lackeys). Sabine might offer him a way out of his torment, thus ensnaring him for whatever the IFCC have in mind.

[Peelee]

The only other really good IFCC-worthy "vessel" candidate

What makes a vessel "IFCC-worthy"?