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2020-12-20, 01:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
Long time lurker I've only posted once or twice before but unfortunately lost my old account. I just have to say that does it appear that Elan in panel 14 is watching the action of team evil in panel 13 as they cross the Trap line.
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2020-12-20, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
Indeed, the mechanics are puzzling. The order can hear Team evil and Blackwing. But Xykon cannot hear them. Team Evil entering doesn't bring them to the Order, but Roy's Sword also doesn't just leave and smack Xykon... so where does the exit lead to, given it's not where they are seeing?
Attention LotR fans
Spoiler: LotRThe scouring of the Shire never happened. That's right. After reading books I, II, and III, I stopped reading when the One Ring was thrown into Mount Doom. The story ends there. Nothing worthwhile happened afterwards. Middle-Earth was saved.
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2020-12-20, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
Called it.
forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?622932-OOTS-1220-The-Discussion-Thread&p=24820656
Probably called by everyone else for all I know. 😂
"Sneaky sneaky. They have not entered the tomb behind the door they went through. That "trap" is a seamless teleport. That's why the floor on the other side is a different colour. Cause it's the colour of the floor of the tomb they're teleporting to.
I figure there is only one real tomb that keeps resetting and all the other's are just doors with a corridor.
Has someone been playing the original Doom?"Last edited by alowe; 2020-12-20 at 02:23 PM.
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2020-12-20, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
Well no, because that's not "every dungeon is two dungeons, but one is hard to find", it's "every dungeon is three dungeons, one is harder to find and one of them requires you to counterintuitively re-arm a trap behind you then intentionally walk into it".
Which is a lot more of a defence, because it's not the sort of thing anyone searching through the dungeon for a gate would think about doing unless something nastier was behind them than in front of them, and at the entrance that's unlikely.
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2020-12-20, 02:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2010
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
Thanks Giant!
I know you probably don't like the community speculating how the plot will go, but when you're so close to the end and have such little room to wiggle, what can you do?To find in order to lose; To fall in order to stand up
To freeze in order to ignite; To find myself within, and not fear the edge
To die in order to be reborn to the new world
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2020-12-20, 02:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
1. If every dungeon is three dungeons, please refer to what I said about every dungeon being two dungeons. If every dungeon is two dungeons and a shortcut to the Gate, it's still stupid, especially if the Gate is where the party with a a rogue would inevitably try to leave the second dungeon.
2. We have no evidence that bypassing rather than disarming the trap made any difference other than allowing the Order to enter the second dungeon while preventing Team Evil from doing the same.Last edited by Metastachydium; 2020-12-20 at 02:35 PM.
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2020-12-20, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
Well no, why would a party with a rogue that disarmed the trap on the way in arm it again before they walked back out and triggered it?
2. We have no evidence that bypassing rather than disarming the trap made any difference other than allowing the Order to enter the second dungeon while preventing Team Evil from doing the same.
We know that going through the portal the other way doesn't lead out of the dungeon because Xykon didn't see Roy's sword, which would have appeared in front of him if the portal connected to the outside, and the portal clearly works differently in different directions because the Order can see Xykon but Xykon cannot see the Order.
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2020-12-20, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
I must admit I laughed my head off at this issue!
SpoilerVery doubtful, but I still think there's only one dungeon, but that line I suspect is merely a contingency used to bypass the trap and that rather than the corridor is trapped its actually a door in itself that a rogue can use to sidestep the effect that covers the entire area including the village.
I think the bugbear village are PART of Serini's Dungeon which is why they haven't said anything.
I still think Xykon is going to lose his temper and use some kind of maximised dispel magic accidentally dispelling the "illusion" restoring the area to its true form the question will be how long will it take them to get back to the right path?
Fey would make sense of the Winter Court if thats the case or did 3.5 deal with that?
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2020-12-20, 02:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2018
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
If I remember correctly Rich at some point said that one of the dangers of the Dark One's Plan was that if he moved the Gate to another plane the Snarl would no longer be contained inside the Material Plane and could use any interplanar portal to go to any plane. Up until now if the Snarl managed to escape its prison it'd still be stuck inside the Material Plane and the gods could wait for it to calm down while hiding inside their own planes before imprisoning it inside a new world.
While the Scribblers might not have been aware of this I'm still rather sceptical they'd have moved a Gate out of the Material Plane because that's a rather risky thing to do if you're not entirely sure how the Snarl would react.Last edited by Worldsong; 2020-12-20 at 02:54 PM.
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2020-12-20, 02:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
For all we know, disarming the trap allows movement between the two dungeons, while all rearming the trap does is blocking movement. What's behind what Roy struck can very well be within the same corridor.
(Also, I'd find the Order just stumbling upon the Gate by dumb luck less than satisfactory. They deserve to actually deserve finding it through applied competence and stuff. Dumb luck would feel cheap.)Last edited by Metastachydium; 2020-12-20 at 02:59 PM.
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2020-12-20, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
SpoilerI think what Serini did was create a dimensional matrix but rather than placing the Gate within it, the matrix is surrounding a space that to onlookers appears to be the same place but isn't.
So rather than moving the Gate to another plane I think everything including the village is actually within that matrix and that line is the actual door they assumed they used to enter this corridor only it requires a high level rogue or some means to replicate their abilities to access it.
Of course had Serini mentioned it in her diary they should have been looking for it so I assume either that diary is incomplete or was released deliberately but that would suggest Serini had a falling out with the others but who knows?
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2020-12-20, 02:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
Interesting detail - Blackwing exited before the trap went live again. But whatever planar shenanigans are going on, he can still communicate with them.
...they could test what's happening by having Roy stick his sword out again (ha) and have Blackwing report in if it appears anywhere.Last edited by spruce56; 2020-12-20 at 03:01 PM.
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2020-12-20, 03:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
BRitF showed that as well. A good one for thinking through tesseract dungeons.
That's how it came off to me.
Maybe he's hungering for some goat's head soup.
They may be, but I don't think that they live inside the dungeons.Avatar by linklele. How Teleport Worksa. Malifice (paraphrased):
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b. greenstone (paraphrased):
Agency means that they {players} control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.
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2020-12-20, 03:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-12-20, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-12-20, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- nice try, Fed
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Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
The behavior of the "trap" portal implies *three* separate dimensions.
1) Original where Xykon was on the other side of the runes.
2) "Different floor color" where Roy and the OOTS are standing.
3) Wherever Roy's sword went when he tried to attack Xykon. It didn't show up in D1, so where is that exactly?
Now, they can still "hear" Blackwing from dimension 1), so this is really interesting.
Also, every door has this portal trap; do they all lead to the same destination if not temporarily disabled? If so, Xykon is running in circles.
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2020-12-20, 04:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-12-20, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-12-20, 05:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2018
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
There is an Eru Illuvatar in the OOTSverse?
It's a point more in its course to be defined as "a good man". Probably, as Chekhov's gun dictates, his trick will be discovered and he will be punished somehow. This punishment will be another stage in his rebellion against the Evil Team.Life is like a ladder in a henhouse; it is short, but full of guano.
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2020-12-20, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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2020-12-20, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
Que tous les anciens dieux et les nouveaux protègent la France.
Resistance Data in MM, Volo's, MToF. -- -- Petrocorus's 3.5 Paladin Builds List. -- -- French vs. EnglishOriginally Posted by King Louis XIII in The Musketeers
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2020-12-20, 06:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2012
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
What should the OOTS do next? I assume they will move forward to find the gate, but then what? They know they cannot destroy this gate or else everything is destroyed by the Snarl. Do they set up defenses and wait to fight Team Evil? Do they send word to the Sapphire Guard for reinforcements? Do they wait to ambush Redcloak after he uses up his spells?
So many questions!
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2020-12-20, 07:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
I'm not sure what you mean by "the same destination". The doors appear to lead to distinct dungeons. Oona doesn't expect that a given doorway, having been cleared of its monsters recently, should have been repopulated so quickly.
Seems to me that what they'll do next will involve some explanation by Haley about what she knows about the "trap", some pontification by Vaarsuvius, and then someone sticking their head back across the line to see what's on the other side, since they know that Roy's sword wasn't harmed. They might experiment with a critter from Roy's Bag of Many Things first.
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2020-12-20, 08:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2020
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
So.. only one person in this thread has commented about Redcloak's new Eye Design.
Red eyes look great on the gob-boi.
Edit: Right, true seeing. Still looks badass..Last edited by PattThe; 2020-12-20 at 08:12 PM.
@Patt
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2020-12-20, 10:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
I think that we need to be prepared for the mechanics of this trap to be somewhat asymmetric. Like many other things in the Stickverse, it follows the rules of drama rather than the rules of logic.
Consider: this can’t be the first time members of Team Evil have been on different sides of the magic line at the same time. If Redcloak walked behind Xykon into the dungeon, he would have noticed if Xykon disappeared once he crossed the line. So apparently, while the trap is active, light and sound travel to TWO different locations at once. However, the same is not true in reverse.
Here’s a schematic of the entire thing. As I see it there are two corridors: a green one (the one that leads from the door in Monster Hollow to the monsters that TE has been killing), and a yellow corridor somewhere else, that is accessible only if the trap is deactivated somehow, leading to and from unknown locations.
(I am assuming that it’s the Order that is teleported, rather than Team Evil, because of the floor color change. And yeah, I kind of think that deactivating any of the traps in any corridor would have taken the Order to where they are right now. This may not be as effective a barrier to the Gate as putting the teleporter in just one tunnel, but I will accept “Serini thought it was cool” as an explanation.)
G1 (door) G2 (monsters, TE current location)
Y1 ????? Y2 (Order’s current location)
Trap active
G1 light, sound > G2 AND Y2, G1 matter > G2
(Order and Xykon are BOTH able to see Redcloak enter the door.)
G2 light, sound > G1 (maybe Y1), matter >G1
(When TE enters or exits a dungeon, they don’t notice anything unusual happening around the trap.)
Y1 matter > Y2
(Roy’s sword came back.)
Y2 light, sound, matter > Y1
(presumably, since Xykon doesn’t hear or see Roy and there is nowhere else his sword could have gone)
Trap inactive
G1 light, sound, matter > Y2
(Presumably light, sound, and matter all go to Y2, since otherwise the first members of the Order to cross the line could have looked back and noticed that Roy and Belkar materialized when they crossed it.)
G2 light, sound, matter > unknown
Y1 light, sound, matter > unknown
Y2 light, sound, matter > G1
(Because again, Roy would have noticed if the rest of the Order suddenly popped into view once he crossed the line.)
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2020-12-20, 11:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2018
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
Personally, it makes more sense to me that Team Evil is the ones being teleported, for two reasons
1) It's more consistent with the idea of a trap being disabled
2) In 1203, Roy said that the dungeons had to be straight hallways to avoid them running into each other. (Also it just makes sense, given how close all those doors are) Meanwhile, Team Evil had already described the inside as complex and with a lot of twists and turns. These two things make it seem likely to me that the trap takes you to somewhere else.
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2020-12-21, 12:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
Plausibly, the "trap" magic includes providing a sight-and-sound illusion of what's going on "outside". From where the Order is now, they get to see what's going on at the doorway and in that short bit of hallway. If they cross to the other side (i.e. where the end of Roy's sword was for a moment), they may get to see Team Evil from behind, walking away.
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2020-12-21, 12:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
I see your point. The problems I have with that are
1) If the Order is in the "real" long straight corridor behind the door, instead of being teleported elsewhere, then why did the floor change color?
2) Since the bugbears keep track of how long it takes dungeons to repopulate, presumably they also would know if the same door always takes you to the same dungeon. Assuming it does, that means there's a full dungeon for each door somewhere that is being teleported to. I suppose, as many have said, it could be extraplanar, but still...wow.
3) Narratively, if the Order is just in a long straight corridor, that seems a bit...boring. Even more so if, as someone suggested earlier, they're just in a section of corridor that the teleporters skip over.
Maybe all the corridors converge in one big room at the end? I suppose that would make sense.
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2020-12-21, 12:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
The floor that gets walked on by a generation of bugbear hunters gets dirty. The floor that's hidden behind a teleport curtain doesn't get dirty.
2) Since the bugbears keep track of how long it takes dungeons to repopulate, presumably they also would know if the same door always takes you to the same dungeon.
3) Narratively, if the Order is just in a long straight corridor, that seems a bit...boring.The Giant says: Yes, I am aware TV Tropes exists as a website. ... No, I have never decided to do something in the comic because it was listed on TV Tropes. I don't use it as a checklist for ideas ... and I have never intentionally referenced it in any way.
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2020-12-21, 01:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2015
Re: OOTS #1222 - The Discussion Thread
Remember, Haley disabled the runes. This means that something did happen to TE that didn't happen to OotS. By Occam's Razor, it makes far more sense for TE to have been teleported than the Order.
I like heated water, not heated arguments.