Results 31 to 60 of 271
-
2020-12-25, 01:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Location
- Denver.
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.
-
2020-12-25, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
- Location
- USA
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Yes, but we're discussing GAME. Games have mechanical aspects. How do you express Orcs as "strong" without an in-game mechanic? Are you desiring a "let's-play-pretend" storygame that excludes modifiers and dice? If WotC did that with D&D it would destroy the game, and possibly the hobby.
You suggest a Vulcan being something other than a Roddenberry Vulcan. Okay. You can do that at your table if the group agrees. The issue is you wanting racial sameness to extend, as official content, across the hobby.
The preface of the AD&D GM Guide is Gygax telling DMs they can run any kind of game we want, outside of official, GENCON-related games. The rules are OURS, so homebrew is the STANDARD.
You want to make YOUR rules the standard. That will NEVER happen. EVER.
-
2020-12-25, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Poland
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
Interested in the Nexus FFRP setting? See our Discord server.
-
2020-12-25, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2012
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
My preferred way is to only have mechanical distinctions where they're going to have significant implications to play.
Rogue Trader inclues three non-human races to play as and each comes with a huge difference in stats compared to humans, has a unique class that only they can take and has access to talents/traits that humans can't get.
A Dark Eldar can jump off a building and take no damage where the others would all be smooshed to paste, a Kroot can peel open armour with it's bare hands, an Ork can survive a shotgun blast to the face that would reduce the others to a pile of miscellaneous meat, and those are only where their differences start.
They also interact differently with the medicine skill, implants, some weapons and armour, diplomacy and so on.
These differences generally grow more pronounced as the game progresses as well. The frailest starting Ork is as tough as all but the toughest humans, and by the end game a tough Ork is unable to be harmed by anything short of anti-tank weapons because they're just that big and tough.
For races as D&D does them a 5% difference to a roll here or there is so minimal it's not worth the paper it's printed on imo. Make elves agile as the wind and fragile as ice, orcs as strong as oxen and thick as planks and so on and they'll actually be distinct. A piddly little -x or +x here or there amounts to nothing more than statistical noise.Last edited by Grim Portent; 2020-12-25 at 02:05 PM.
Sanity is nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.
-
2020-12-25, 02:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
- Location
- USA
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
If you homebrew the rules, especially Abilities, you've already gone outside of the racially-based mechanics offered.
-
2020-12-25, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Actual solutions used by other games:
Ancient Domains of Mystery solution: Learning. That is, a stat representing general book learning and memory.
Praedor: no stat. Some skills are purely taught and you have to buy them up from a flat minimum, with no help from primary abilities.
Originally Posted by Ignismortis
Eliminating player skill is not a good game design goal.
Originally Posted by Ignismortis
Originally Posted by Ignismortis
For contrast, notice how you can't make the same argument for Strength. Obviously, it's possible to make a game based on real physical activity by players, but it rapidly escapes design space of a tabletop game, because you can't have people sitting at a table when they're running around. Point being: each real ability and each real skill has its own design space for making games. Abstracting them all to same type of simple math problem is easy, but it's not be-all-end-all for RPG design.
Originally Posted by IgnismortisLast edited by Vahnavoi; 2020-12-25 at 02:13 PM.
-
2020-12-25, 02:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2018
- Location
- EU
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Did you actually read what I wrote? The orc I proposed is still stronger (can carry and push more, deals extra damage in melee), it simply isn't so through getting a flat bonus to an ability score.
You suggest a Vulcan being something other than a Roddenberry Vulcan. Okay. You can do that at your table if the group agrees. The issue is you wanting racial sameness to extend, as official content, across the hobby.
You want to make YOUR rules the standard. That will NEVER happen. EVER.
-
2020-12-25, 03:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Gobbotopia
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Magical items, DM intervention, or just plain adaptation can all fix this.
Want to play a Goblin Bard but have lowsy charisma? Well, You could:
Get a headband of extra charisma
Talk to the DM to see if you can base your perform (Acrobatics) on Dexterity instead of Charisma
Adapt to say that your character is not a very good bard
Talk to the DM to see if you can trade your Dexterity bonus for a Charisma one via backstory
etc
If you chose to play as a Goblin Bard, then you should be willing and able to play as a Goblin Bard.Avy by Thormag
Spoiler
-
2020-12-25, 03:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
So you, as a game designer, state that playing goblin means playing on Hard Mode. Problem solved!
Seriously: there is no imperative for each playable character to be distinctly advantaged. Being distinctly disadvantaged can be a feature in itself, as it actually is in plenty of games.
This is where you need to, at least for a moment, abandon the idea that making a character is about player self-expression, and instead consider the idea that making a character is about choosing a challenge.
-
2020-12-25, 04:26 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2019
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
So...you read the race write up, including whatever makes you suck at something, and you choose to be a goblin anyway? In my brain that means you want something else from the goblin write up. It has, as written, something you like.
So race attributes, depends a little on the game, but for me the stat mods +/- just reflect details about that race. I made a race with a + st and - int for 2nd ed. It's a larger than normal oral tradition race. (7 foot is on the low end) self proclaimed masters of the sea, sailors and islanders. No one one ooc or ic thinks they are dumb, and its presented in game as a lack of written training (int) and more stories, traditions, songs, ect (wis and cha learning and skills)
Long point made short, as long as you dont make a terrible culture, the stat mods are often fine.
Now to address the best race with best stat to be the best class, that is honestly an ooc issue. Being the best is not needed to play games. You want to be a person, not a robot statatron (my 2 cents)
But in game, characters dont say "Bob's half orc gets a plus 5 and I dont." That is a purely player thing.
-
2020-12-25, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
It depends what is the problem you're trying to solve.
Some peoples have absolutely 0 problems with races having ability modifiers in-universe, but dislike the mechanical effects of it at the level of character creation. And for that this is the perfect solution, you keep the in-universe distinction and get rid of the unwanted mechanical effect.
On the other hand, some peoples have 0 problems with the mechanics of having racial ability modifiers but are uncomfortable with the consequences it has in term of world-building, and for them this solution is obfuscation.
-
2020-12-25, 05:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Location
- Denver.
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
It is an issue both in and out of character. Stereotypes will absolutely exist in universe, and there will be many characters in the setting who are told they cant do something they want to do because of their race.
At a player level, many players simply want to be the best character and wont choose an inferior race, thus reducing diversity at the table.
On the other hand, some players will just like a race and be frustrated that they have to suffer penalties for playing the race they like.
Imo PCs are already special individuals, I don’t see any problem with having PCs who break stereotypes instead of reinforcing them.Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.
-
2020-12-25, 05:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
It has been pointed out you by multiple people that you don't really get stereotype-breaking characters if your point-buy system makes it too easy and too optimal to play a stereotype. Having player characters break internal stereotypes of your setting is not really preferable. To use an example that's been spoofed all to Hell, including in Order of the Stick: a Chaotic Good male Drow rebelling against their Evil matriarchal society was only original the first time. If all playable Drows fit that bill, you've only "broken" the stereotype of Evil Drow by substituting it with stereotype of Self-Hating Drow.
Originally Posted by TalakealLast edited by Vahnavoi; 2020-12-25 at 05:54 PM.
-
2020-12-25, 06:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
- Location
- Waterdeep
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Roll for it 5e Houserules and Homebrew
Old Extended Signature
Awesome avatar by Ceika
-
2020-12-25, 06:23 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Location
- Denver.
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Maybe in an MMO or something, but for a tabletop RPG the sample size is really too small for that to be an issue. The Drizzt thing isnt a trend for players, its a popular novel character who has, allegedly, been copied a whole bunch, although I must admit I have been playing D&D for decades and never seen it.
If diversity in PC races is your goal, I don't see how forcing then to adhere to stereotypes is going to help. Likewise, I don't see any reason why it is a bad thing for PC demographics and NPC demographics to line up.
Aesthetics? Culture? Psychology?
For example, I am currently playing a Changeling the Dreaming campaign. In that system, there are a plethora of different fantasy races, and the only mechanical difference between each race is that they get two benefits and one penalty. Sometimes these are numerical in nature, but usually aren’t.
Still, the different races are so fleshed out that people still enthusiastically choose races and have all sorts of preferences.Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.
-
2020-12-25, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Location
- Denver.
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.
-
2020-12-25, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Gobbotopia
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
The only people being "Forced" to adhere to stereotypes are the people who think they are the only way to play. there is nothing preventing anyone from playing a halfling barbarian or a half-orc wizard. you can absolutely play those without issue and still have them be viable and effective characters. the racial traits are only a problem if you -personally- make them a problem.
Avy by Thormag
Spoiler
-
2020-12-25, 07:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Location
- Denver.
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Do keep in mind that I was directly responding to this:
I suppose the word "force" is a bit of hyperbole, but it really depends on the system.
We aren't talking about D&D as is, but about designing a system in a vacuum. Some systems do indeed flat out prohibit certain race / class combinations, for example World of Warcraft bans players from making characters of non stereotypical race / class combinations because it wants those rare NPCs who buck the stereotypes to feel more special. And some systems effectively ban certain combinations by just making them too mechanically ineffective to even consider.
When designing a new system, I really don't think there is any valid justification for saying "no" to a player who wants to have green skin and tusks but also wants to (eventually) be the most powerful wizard in all the land just because most orcs are anti-intellectual barbarians.Last edited by Talakeal; 2020-12-25 at 07:12 PM.
Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.
-
2020-12-25, 08:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
- Location
- Waterdeep
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Roll for it 5e Houserules and Homebrew
Old Extended Signature
Awesome avatar by Ceika
-
2020-12-25, 09:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Going to take a moment here to point out that this is a feature, not a bug. If you want to play a goblin, then youre either expecting to play into their type, in which case this isnt a problem, or youre prepared to play against type and are actually banking on that.
Like, if i want to play a big muscly barbarian, im not going to be a gnome unless i deliberately want to invoke the gnome doing something he's bad at as part of the character.“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”
-
2020-12-25, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2020
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Renaming "intelligence" to "learning" (or "memory," which I think is a bit more appropriate, but either would do) won't solve all problems forever, but I do think that it would be a step in the right direction.
Your example of a player who wants to play as a character who's more intelligent than they are actually supports my point. It's inevitable that one of the following will be true:
- Either someone else tells the player what their character won't do, or
- their character will sometimes make stupid mistakes, or
- they need to be intelligent IRL in order to play an intelligent character.
A player who isn't aware of this Morton's fork could walk into a game with expectations that'll inevitably never be met. They're doomed to disappointment. Letting them write "INT 18" on their character sheet sets up and reinforces this doomed expectation, and when you take these players out back to quietlyshoot themmanage expectations, they'll point to those character sheets and exclaim "But this! This! This says that I can get the experience that you're now turning around and saying is impossible!"
If those sheets instead read "MEM 18" (or LRN 18 or something similar) then those troublesome expectations either wouldn't exist in the first place or would be easier to expel.
In short, having a stat named intelligence doesn't let players bake intelligence, as in the ability to make good decisions, into their character concept. It only lets them think that they can and sets them up for disappointment. It's better to rip that bandaid off at character creation IMO.
MoiMagnus is mostly right here; I'm trying to solve the mechanical problems associated with racial ability modifiers. The worldbuilding implications aren't what I'm trying to address through mechanics.
That's not because I don't care about the worldbuilding implications and I'm not trying to obfuscate anything, though. That's because I think that worldbuilding implications should be addressed through worldbuilding. There are two directions that you can go in here.
The first would be to build a non-discriminatory cosmopolitan society around whatever mechanics exist. Most races in DnD have ability scores that still usually fall within the human norm. -2 isn't more than human-to-human random variation. Sure, clever half-orcs are statistically less common than clever humans, but they do exist, so every half-orc deserves the same chance as a human would get. Fictional races with severe negative ability score modifiers aren't fundamentally different from humans with disabilities, so we can look to the way that people with disabilities are (or should be) treated for inspiration. There's a tricky balance to be struck here - on one hand, acknowledging and providing support for the disability, and on the other acknowledging that people with disabilities still have agency and can sometimes be quite capable. Nonetheless, that's a balance that can be struck in the real world so there's absolutely no reason why it couldn't in a fictional one.
The second is to build overtly discriminatory societies around the mechanics, make it clear to your players that these societies are not OK, and use that as a source of conflict in your games.
Personally, I'm inclined towards the second approach. It makes for a more thoughtful and more complex game where even the "good guy" authorities are morally flawed and where the players will on occasion need to subvert those authorities to do what's right.
What I said about elves compared to humans was just an example of something that might be true in a given campaign setting - it's a possible facet of worldbuilding that's compatible with the mechanics that I'm suggesting, but not required by anything.
If PC/NPC separation is a pet peeve of yours, then . . . well, that's you. Most players are comfortable with it. PCs in most RPGs, DnD included, are significantly more capable overall than the average inhabitant of their worlds.
The fact that a problem can be fixed doesn't change the fact that there's a problem. By using the word "fix," you're implicitly acknowledging that there's something broken here. A better system wouldn't have that problem in the first place.
Theoretically, any build could be made viable so long as players are willing to accept a reduction in power and/or DMs are willing to hand out whatever homebrew or level-inappropriate thing is required to balance it. Realistically, most players don't like being underpowered and most DMs are wary about handing out things which a different player might later abuse.
Practically speaking, you do end up with situations where players say to themselves "Hey, you know what would be comedy gold? A goblin bard! Every song he sings would be incredibly crude - 'casue that's just how goblins roll - and he'd end up adventuring because every respectable employer kicks him out . . ." and then wind up being disappointed that they couldn't make a viable character out of that idea.
There are other combinations that obviously don't and probably shouldn't work, such as a pixie barbarian. Someone who wants to play as a pixie barbarian obviously wants to have a hard time. My point here is that the range of character ideas that are viable is much less broad than it should be and that the racial ability modifier score system is to blame.
-
2020-12-25, 09:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2010
- Location
- Gobbotopia
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
i think you're looking at small racial modifiers too much as big character-defining things. At the end of the day, there is very little difference between a level 10 sorcerer with a charisma of 20, and a level 10 sorcerer with a charisma of 18. just because one got a +2 charisma bonus and one got a -2 charisma penalty doesn't mean squat in the long term, they're both equally viable characters who can both do what they need to do to more or less the same effect. The first sorcerer might have a higher DC to their spells, but that's really about it.
racial bonuses are really more general flavor for culture and biology then anything else. The Dwarves are hearty and wise, but pretty blunt, hence +2 con, +2 wis, -2 Cha. You can still make a dwarven bard all you want, nothing is stopping you, and you'll likely be just as good as that Elven bard down the line. In the meantime you could use those modifiers to help define or balance out your character. if you wanted, you could drain your Con down to an 8 for extra point buy, then use the +2 racial bonus to keep it at an average 10. Or just put a couple points into it to get a pretty decent 14.Avy by Thormag
Spoiler
-
2020-12-25, 09:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2014
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Ah, fair. I apologize for the misunderstanding. I thought that you were reacting to the OP's original vein of conversation, that an aversion to ability score modifiers was to be viewed in the context of addressing racism and whatnot.
If PC/NPC separation is a pet peeve of yours, then . . . well, that's you. Most players are comfortable with it. PCs in most RPGs, DnD included, are significantly more capable overall than the average inhabitant of their worlds.
Theoretically, any build could be made viable so long as players are willing to accept a reduction in power and/or DMs are willing to hand out whatever homebrew or level-inappropriate thing is required to balance it. Realistically, most players don't like being underpowered and most DMs are wary about handing out things which a different player might later abuse.
Practically speaking, you do end up with situations where players say to themselves "Hey, you know what would be comedy gold? A goblin bard! Every song he sings would be incredibly crude - 'casue that's just how goblins roll - and he'd end up adventuring because every respectable employer kicks him out . . ." and then wind up being disappointed that they couldn't make a viable character out of that idea.
There are other combinations that obviously don't and probably shouldn't work, such as a pixie barbarian. Someone who wants to play as a pixie barbarian obviously wants to have a hard time. My point here is that the range of character ideas that are viable is much less broad than it should be and that the racial ability modifier score system is to blame.
Now, if you acknowledge that pixie barbarians (being a rather extreme case) "shouldn't work," how do you plan on reinforcing that without having ability score modifiers? You could try and hack it by adding various traits like "does 1/4 melee damage" or the like, but that ends up being roundabout ways of doing the same thing as just giving them a Strength penalty and ends up breaking in various other scenarios, like said barbarian moving heavy objects.
-
2020-12-26, 01:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Location
- Denver.
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Yeah, they aren't toobad in D&D. But still, in a reasonably low op game, but if you are playing a race with a -2 penalty to your prime stat vs. a race with a +2 bonus to the same stat, that can be a pretty big difference, especially when combined with other racial abilities that may or may not suit you.
Nothing too special, Agility, Charisma, Dexterity, Endurance, Intelligence, Perception, Strength, Willpower.
Starting characters get 50 points to distribute amongst their stats. They can also use these points to buy additional skills or feats, or take flaws for extra points.
Over the course of play characters get more points to improve their ability scores, and a maximum level character has roughly twice the currency of a starting character.
A whole bunch. The game is built around the default assumption of human PCs, but the rules allow you to play anything in bestiary with GM permission.
Humans have 1-10 in all stats. Magic, equipment, mutations, and the like can increase maximums up to 15.
Same races have natural caps as low as 5 or as high as 15. The augmented maximum is still fifteen.
So, let's look at Orcs, as they are often discussed and a pretty close to human analogue.
Currently, their ranges are:
Agility 1-9
Charisma 1-9
Dexterity 1-9
Endurance 3-12
Intelligence 1-9
Perception 1-9
Strength 3-12
Willpower 1-10
They also have symbiotic algae in their cells which halves their food intake and can see into the infrared spectrum which allows them to see warm bodies clearly in the dark but also blinds them in areas of excessive ambient heat.
At this stage pretty much anything short of redesigning the core mechanics of the game.Last edited by Talakeal; 2020-12-26 at 01:50 AM.
Looking for feedback on Heart of Darkness, a character driven RPG of Gothic fantasy.
-
2020-12-26, 01:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2020
- Location
- USA
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Racial modifiers are a mechanic of CHOICE. RPGs are big on player choices.
Removing the distinct aspect of racial choice and how that modifies capability takes something away from the game. Emphasis GAME. This isn't simple "Pretend", it is a game played around the world by some people that take it very seriously. If you remove options they've become accustomed to, they might feel a certain way.
Remember the 4th edition changes? It led to Paizo's Pathfinder becoming the dominant game over D&D.
As influential as D&D is now, never forget that tampering with the game mechanics can lead to ruin. It's why WotC isn't listening to the SJWs and their rant against races.
They've given you monsters to play as characters, but there will always be a level of culture and mechanical capability attached to that monster.Last edited by SwordCoastTaxi; 2020-12-26 at 01:23 AM.
-
2020-12-26, 02:43 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Poland
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
Interested in the Nexus FFRP setting? See our Discord server.
-
2020-12-26, 03:04 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
- Location
- Waterdeep
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
I personally dont see enough of a reason to sparate dexterity and agility but thats probably off topic.
50 plus Flaws plus another 50 from progression may be too generous? It sounds really generous, suppose that impression depends on skill, feat and ability costs.
Im not seeing a problem with that really. Some might chafe at the ‘penalties’ though, same reasoning that 5e dropped them.
Edit: what i would suggest is instead of races changing the available range (which is a racial bonus in disguise) institute increasing costs for higher stat values and races give discounts to that increasing cost. There is still an ‘optimal’ use for your points, you cant really get around that, but at least you arent ‘forced’ to spend you points in certain ways based on race and feel ‘wasted’.Last edited by Kane0; 2020-12-26 at 03:09 AM.
-
2020-12-26, 05:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2020
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
If you're raising too small sample sizes as a point, that implies you don't except to play a lot of different games with your own system, and don't really care about what other people do it. Also, Drizzt thing was a trend for players, that's part of what the comic was spoofing. Drizzt codified the idea that a Ranger fights with two swords and this wormed its way to game mechanics of multiple games, including his parent game D&D. If you didn't see it, you didn't look too hard
Originally Posted by Talakeal
Originally Posted by Talakeal
The point I want to make here is that since it's your game you want feedback for, explaining aesthetics, culture and psychology of your races is part of your system. It's part of the same package as your mechanics. If you're doing your job competently, the mechanical facets of your system are congrous with what you say about their aesthetics, culture and psychology.
So, for example, if your system says goblins are small, ugly and evil and they are at mechanical disadvantage because of that: if a player wants to play a goblins that's neither small nor ugly nor evil, what exactly are they liking about your goblins?
Originally Posted by Talakeal
It's already been pointed out that if you want race to be a cosmetic difference - if putting green skin and tusks on a wizard is all it's about - then nix racial modifiers entirely. Don't complicate your game system with mechanics that you don't really want to matter.
But beyond that, let me write you another satirical conversation:
GM: "In this world, dark elves are called Drow, they are an evil, subterranean, matriarchal spider-worshipping race."
Player: "That's so cool! I want to play a Drow!"
GM: "Nice! So let's start by rolling your abi-..."
Player: "But I don't want to be evil."
GM: "Okay? Well, that's workable..."
Player: "I also don't want to play any subterranean adventures. Those are so cliched."
GM: *Puzzled* "... well okay, you could be
part of an exploration party send to the surface..."
Player: "I also don't want to worship spiders."
GM: "... well they do have some other gods..."
Player: "Also, I find this matriarchy thing not to my tastes, so I'll play a lone male who has no ties to that social paradigm.
GM: *Looks at the player* "Okay, let's see if I got this right: I described an evil, subterranean, matriarchal spider-worshipping race..."
Player: "That's right!"
GM: "... but you want your character to not be evil, not live underground, not worship spiders and not have anything to do with their social order?"
Player: "Yes!"
GM: *crossing their arms* "... what, exactly, did you find cool about my Drow?"
Player: *points to a book* "Well, you see, they have dark skin in that picture."
GM: "And?"
Player: "And I find your game has too few dark skinned people in it."
GM: "Okay?"
Player: "So I thought I'd fix that by playing a Drow."
GM: "Uh..."
Player: "But I don't want to be part of an evil matriarchy. That'd give a bad impression of dark skinned people. So, instead, I will be lovable good ranger!"
GM: "You... you do realize my setting has actual dark skinned humans in it? Including an entire culture of immigrant from historical Egypt?"
Player: *puzzled* "Yes?"
GM: "So if you want a positive representation of dark skinned people, why not play, you know, a dark skinned human?"
Player: "... but they're not elves."
GM: "... I'm sorry?"
Player: "They're not elves. So they don't have pointed ears. Or this totally awesome bonus to dexterity. Playing a ranger is totally unoptimal without a bonus to dexterity."
GM: "Doesn't sound like you really want to play a Drow at all."
Player: "How come? I just said I wanted to play a Drow."
GM: "Would you be satisfied with playing an Egyptian with one-time boost to dexterity?"
Everyone else at the table: "Hey, wait a second! You didn't give us that option when we made our characters!"
GM: "... why's that a big deal all of a sudden?"
Player 2: "I totally wouldn't have picked orc and eaten an ability score penalty to mental stats if I could've just been a human with a bonus to strength.
GM: "But I thought you liked exploring orc culture and special disadvantages they have in society?"
Player 2: "Well sort of, but these penalties totally stink. I could've just picked a human and... I dunno, pretended I was still an orc?"
Player 3: "Refluffed."
Player 2: "Say what?"
Player 3: "Not 'pretended'. Refluffed. It's what you call it when you take a mechanic made to model one thing and use it for a completely different thing!"
GM: "Hold on... so you would've been fine playing... refluffed humans?"
Player 2: "Yes."
GM: "But then, what was the point of me creating all these special mechanics to model differences between orcs and humans?"
Player 2: "Eh, I don't play orcs for the mechanics, I play them to explore the culture, the psychology..."
GM: "But those mechanics are there to model the culture and the psychology! How are you supposed to explore being disadvantaged withouy actually having any disadvantage?"
Player 2: *sips juice through a straw* "Eh, I can just roleplay it."
Player 1: "So, can I play a Drow now?"
-
2020-12-26, 05:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2011
- Location
- Waterdeep
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Roll for it 5e Houserules and Homebrew
Old Extended Signature
Awesome avatar by Ceika
-
2020-12-26, 06:21 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Poland
- Gender
Re: Right way to do racial stat modifiers?
Racial bonuses to attributes and skills could work in a "lifepath" style of character creation, where you assemble your character from various options instead of having direct control over the numbers. So getting a strength bonus for being an orc wouldn't be much different from getting one from being a laborer or getting a survival bonus for having survived famine or whatnot. In a more traditional point-buy, they're a waste of time.
Last edited by Morty; 2020-12-26 at 06:21 AM.
My FFRP characters. Avatar by Ashen Lilies. Sigatars by Ashen Lilies, Gullara and Purple Eagle.
Interested in the Nexus FFRP setting? See our Discord server.