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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Be a starting character IRL

    Merry Christmas!

    If, as a Christmas gift, some entity offered you the abilities of a starting character, what would you choose?

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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Be a starting character IRL

    PL10 Mutants & Masterminds superhero, definitely!

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Hmm... rimworld pawn. Even a base pawn can research the entire tech tree in a few years, and all of it can be made from basic materials. Everything from tree sewing to advanced prosthetics to intergalactic space travel. All as a basic pawn.
    ,,,,^..^,,,,


    Quote Originally Posted by Haldir View Post
    Edit- I understand it now, Fighters are like a status symbol. If you're well off enough to own a living Fighter, you must be pretty well off!

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Pretty sure Exalted is the right answer here. Especially if you stay in the real world, so you don't have to worry about the Exalted setting.

    RISUS could also be fun, though I do not have a good feel for how skilled 4 dice really is.

    Perhaps a hard sci fi setting would be strong too. Essentially bringing an advanced tech level. Much more personally vulnerable than being an Exalt but likely easier to scale up and really change the world.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Be a starting character IRL

    Quote Originally Posted by zarionofarabel View Post
    PL10 Mutants & Masterminds superhero, definitely!
    This, or a Prime Runner.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Be a starting character IRL

    Quote Originally Posted by zarionofarabel View Post
    PL10 Mutants & Masterminds superhero, definitely!
    this. so much this. deck myself out as a super sayan

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Be a starting character IRL

    So, tell me about RISUS and Prime Runner - what are they, why would you choose them?

    Does rimworld exist as an RPG?

    And is there not an RPG in which one can be a super sayan? Or is M&M just a better base for such?

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarionofarabel View Post
    PL10 Mutants & Masterminds superhero, definitely!
    I was going to go for Wild Talents, but this sounds a lot safer

    Although honestly, being an Unknown Armies Cinemancer is tempting. You can get 2-3 significant charges and maybe a handful of minors per day, more if you really concentrate on farming, and the ability to make movie cliches into reality. I don't care that I'd be mad, I could make movie cliches real! The only downside is that Taboo can occasionally give you the choice of shady or downright illegal actions or grounding out your magic.

    And yes, UA means I'd be at a much lower power level than I could otherwise be, if we were subject to game rules I'd be very squishy, and there are far more powerful magic users even just limiting myself to Urban Fantasy games (hello Mage. and Mage. and Dresden Files. and...). But that wouldn't let me be a ****ing movie cliche wizard.
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    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Theoboldi's Avatar

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    Definitely Godbound, picking Wealth, Health and Deception as my free words and probably spending all of my points to pick up Passion and Endurance as well.

    From there on, it's essentially just easy living with enough money to afford anything forever, perfect health, nigh-invulnerability and inexhaustible stamina, as well as insurance to make sure nobody ever bothers me about my powers.

    If I were to pick a much less overpowered system, how about a druid in 3.5 or 5e D&D? Many of their first level spells and cantrips are very useful and can provide decent utility from day to day. And if it's 3.5 I'll even get a cute pet out of the deal. What's not to love?
    Always look for white text. Always.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezekielraiden View Post
    You don't win people over by beating them with facts until they surrender; at best all you've got is a conversion under duress, and at worst you've actively made an enemy of your position.

    You don't convince by proving someone wrong. You convince by showing them a better way to be right. The difference may seem subtle or semantic, but I assure you it matters a lot.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Be a starting character IRL

    Nobilis is probably one of the more powerful choices. Even a character with zero in everything (worse than starting) can by default do anything any competent human could do at 100% consistency, can spend a resource pool to push that up to the level of any mythological figure, can use that resource pool to perform freeform miracles within a chosen domain, becomes unaging and unailing, and in order to even be injured requires the equivalent of a tank shell to the face (and there's pretty much no way to just be killed outright by a single event - ground zero of a nuclear blast is still one injury), though you do get easier to harm once you're injured.

    With initial points, you can for example be as good at anything any mythological figure is reputed to be, at all times. Or throw around free miracles in your domain enhancing, changing, or destroying aspects corresponding to whatever it is. There are also Gifts, which can be all sorts of weird things like 'anyone who interferes in your endeavors suffers karmic retaliation', though those can be pretty expensive in terms of starting resources.

    If this is 'conversion to setting' rather than 'abilities of', there's downsides: you get a hands-off boss who basically has your soul hostage and may choose to annihilate it if you displease them sufficiently; and you belong to a society where the three rules include 'you shall not love'.

    But just getting the powerset of a newborn Noble without having to deal with Imperators, Lord Entropy, or Excrucians trying to use you to steal concepts from reality by distorting the things you care about would be a pretty good deal.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    And is there not an RPG in which one can be a super sayan? Or is M&M just a better base for such?
    probably

    M&M is (if i had to describe it in one word) a toolbox. Some say it breaks down when power level gets too low but i think that is a feature; you would expect a normal person to outright die from a bullet to the chest. Much like how some players always want to be level 10+ in DnD there are some players that when given 15 points load up on weaknesses to fit Superman in that. You can build anything with it. Which is its biggest problem as new DMs hit the wall of "too much to do" when starting up.

    Which is why i prefer 2e as it is almost a clear 3.5 clone. You can port things over; you only have to make sure the numbers are not too high or low for the intended heroes. HP is a big hurdle if your moving in the opposite direction. Plus 2e has "mecha and manga" supplement that has specifically crafted powers to emulate anime.



    There might be a dedicated DBZ rpg but i don't know it. The 3.5 version stumbles where M&M can shift a few points to make an effect that is missing. Bleach Classless does a better job despite also being a 3.5 clone as enough was changed that it supports Bleach and latter supplements that go into DBZ territory. Is it perfect? No. Neither is M&M but it supports it better in my opinion.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
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    @Theoboldi - is Deception you "insurance"?

    @NichG - society wouldn't be copied, so I don't think "you shall not love" would be a concern. Is having a boss or your soul hostage in any way tied into the mechanics? Are there any requirements / qualifications to hold the soul? If "yes" and "no", respectively, then the granting entity could, in this case, count as a *very* "hands off" "boss" (as you'd never see them again). If "no" to the first, then you don't have the drawback. If "yes" and "yes", then they'd have to implement that part, as well.

    So it's… granted the powers of, by the minimal conversation to possible? (EDIT: so, for D&D, that might mean the creation of Magic, and rearranging the planar geography, so that spells work correctly, as their idea of "minimal")
    Last edited by Quertus; 2020-12-26 at 03:18 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Be a starting character IRL

    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    @NichG - society wouldn't be copied, so I don't think "you shall not love" would be a concern. Is having a boss or your soul hostage in any way tied into the mechanics? Are there any requirements / qualifications to hold the soul? If "yes" and "no", respectively, then the granting entity could, in this case, count as a *very* "hands off" "boss" (as you'd never see them again). If "no" to the first, then you don't have the drawback. If "yes" and "yes", then they'd have to implement that part, as well.
    So the mechanism by which a starting Nobilis character is created is that one of a class of entities (Imperators) which embody entire hierarchies of fundamental concepts of reality is too busy dealing with things to manage their portfolio correctly, so they pick something from the world and jam a shard of their own soul into it in order to create a sort of demiurge responsible for watching reality while it goes off to fight in the war or whatever it generally gets up to.

    On the meta-level, a group of players starting a Nobilis campaign will actually build their Imperator, buy attributes for the Imperator, etc. There are four attributes a Noble has (Aspect, Domain, Realm, and Spirit in 1ed IIRC) and basically all of the points spent on Realm get pooled at char-gen and can be used to augment the group's Imperator.

    So if this entity is respecting the meta-level/game mechanical aspects of being a 'starting character', then presumably you would become a noble and get to, in that moment, define your Imperator, their realm, etc. If they're respecting the in-world fluff of things, the mechanism by which someone becomes a noble would involve an Imperator (which presumably the granting entity could act as, given that going around and giving mortals the mechanics of fantasy tabletop settings is the sort of thing that Imperators might get up to - though technically that's not really outside of the realm of possibility for a Noble with the right Domain).

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    @Theoboldi - is Deception you "insurance"?
    That, and Passion. Deception covers just about everything related to stealth and social deception, making common mortals always believe me or letting me see through lies instantly as just two options I have. Passion covers emotions of all sort, which I can both kindle in and remove from the hearts of others. I could create loyalty and trust in others, or simply remove their curiosity in whatever suspicions they may have about me.

    There are two major weakpoints with picking this system, admittedly. As a first level PC who spends so many resources on becoming more versatile, I would run out of divine steam pretty quickly, which might put me in a tough spot at times. Each Word I have still grants some very powerful passive effects, mind, like peak human charisma, a neverending purse or the ability to go without sleep and food, but nothing extremely crazy.

    Also, as a first level PC some exceptional mortals would still have a chance to resist my powers, but those are few and far between. And I certainly wouldn't try and seek them out.

    Really, it's a choice for laying low and living an easy life.


    One big benefit of Godbound is that there are no outside limiting factors to the powers. There's no paradox, no spellbooks I'd need to protect, nor a higher authority I might have to worry about appeasing.
    Last edited by Theoboldi; 2020-12-26 at 06:01 PM.
    Always look for white text. Always.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezekielraiden View Post
    You don't win people over by beating them with facts until they surrender; at best all you've got is a conversion under duress, and at worst you've actively made an enemy of your position.

    You don't convince by proving someone wrong. You convince by showing them a better way to be right. The difference may seem subtle or semantic, but I assure you it matters a lot.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Be a starting character IRL

    Well coz I only play dnd5e, If I were to only be first level, I would 100% choose rogue. Expertise in something is too good to pass up. Although if subsequent levels were on the table, bard would be my next choice.
    We're all just humans who like other humans... or we don't...
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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Be a starting character IRL

    If I could start as a cleric, I could cast Cure Light Wounds and Mending. You have no idea how many times I wished that I could cast those IRL.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Wasn't PunPun a starting character, technically? If not, select any other infinite loops tomfoolery, because you could make top dollar even with chicked infested.
    That which does not kill you made a tactical error.

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    Clistenes's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    Merry Christmas!

    If, as a Christmas gift, some entity offered you the abilities of a starting character, what would you choose?
    Are we stuck in level 1, or is it possible to raise our level? Because I am willing to breed a few thousands of rats in my basement in order to get xp...

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    Pretty sure Exalted is the right answer here. Especially if you stay in the real world, so you don't have to worry about the Exalted setting.
    Yeah, immune to disease, incredibly hard to kill, hyper-competent at your favorite field from the get-go, a lifespan of 3,000-5,000 years, and none of the threats from Creation... nothing beats a Solar Exalted.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Fury View Post
    If I could start as a cleric, I could cast Cure Light Wounds and Mending. You have no idea how many times I wished that I could cast those IRL.
    Cleric of… ?

    (Also, system?)

    But yes, I cannot help but appreciate your reasoning

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    Are we stuck in level 1, or is it possible to raise our level? Because I am willing to breed a few thousands of rats in my basement in order to get xp...
    Ah, the first sign that the entity granting you these abilities might be a ****: they acknowledge your question, but do not give an answer.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Right, so… before sending the dreams, the entirety simulated a number of possible scenarios, and chose the one that produced the greatest net happiness. Which do you think that it would choose?

    0) don't send the dreams - leave Earth as it is.

    1) send the dreams; everyone is stuck at "starting character" power.

    2) send the dreams; everyone can advance as per their system's rules (kinda… what's a "session"? How does one measure hours of play? Etc)

    3) as #1, except each system is it's own world (or, from their PoV, only those who chose X system received the dream in the first place).

    4) as #2, except each system is it's own world (or, from their PoV, only those who chose X system received the dream in the first place).

    Any permutations I've missed? Amy thoughts as to which would produce the "best" result?

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Telok's Avatar

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    Default Re: Be a starting character IRL

    Hmm...

    Champions, with the usual 350 or 450 point start that depends on edition. Possibly some other supers system. Probably a rich, true immortality, margarita man build*.

    Or, Dungeons the Dragoning. Exalted lite, immortality & disease immunity, spell casting, millionaire lifestyle, Bird of Prey ship, and 100 absolutely loyal followers. Have to choose between extra magic and minor powers, or being an extremely hard to kill android/robot. Hard choice.

    *The build uses a low power but undetectable cumulative effect esp + (mind control or other powers) with a world wide range. Lousy in 6 or 12 second combat rounds, but awesome over the course of 30 minutes or so. You spend your days on a beach with a drink and quietly rule the world at a rate of one person an hour.
    Last edited by Telok; 2021-01-05 at 04:43 PM. Reason: Spelling

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    Right, so… before sending the dreams, the entirety simulated a number of possible scenarios, and chose the one that produced the greatest net happiness. Which do you think that it would choose?

    0) don't send the dreams - leave Earth as it is.

    1) send the dreams; everyone is stuck at "starting character" power.

    2) send the dreams; everyone can advance as per their system's rules (kinda… what's a "session"? How does one measure hours of play? Etc)

    3) as #1, except each system is it's own world (or, from their PoV, only those who chose X system received the dream in the first place).

    4) as #2, except each system is it's own world (or, from their PoV, only those who chose X system received the dream in the first place).

    Any permutations I've missed? Amy thoughts as to which would produce the "best" result?
    I'm not sure what dynamic range happiness has, but almost certainly 4 if only the happiness of the original inhabitants of Earth count, 0 otherwise.

    Very easy for random injection of personal power to concentrate happiness, and I'm not sure it's possible to be a trillion times happier than the average person.

    A variant 5) of 'you are on Earth with only those people who chose the same system (and can advance or not)' might work. Or 6) 'everyone who chooses a system gets their own Earth and can, as their system permits, create one-way opportunities for others from original Earth to join them'. Or even something like, you can go back and forth and bring people with, but only benefit from the system perks on the other Earth.
    Last edited by NichG; 2021-01-05 at 07:06 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quertus View Post
    If, as a Christmas gift, some entity offered you the abilities of a starting character, what would you choose?
    I think most starting point spreads in GURPS would let me build a 'me' I could get behind-- independent income, fit & longevity, couple of skills and languages I've always wanted to learn but don't really want to struggle through the novice part of the learning curve. Most importantly get to choose not to take the disadvantages current me has.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    I think most starting point spreads in GURPS would let me build a 'me' I could get behind-- independent income, fit & longevity, couple of skills and languages I've always wanted to learn but don't really want to struggle through the novice part of the learning curve. Most importantly get to choose not to take the disadvantages current me has.
    aren't you kinda worried your current sense of self is rooted in both the bad and good parts of you? That, perhaps, you are asking for identity/personality death?

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    aren't you kinda worried your current sense of self is rooted in both the bad and good parts of you? That, perhaps, you are asking for identity/personality death?
    No, because (last time I checked) Quertus isn't actually some kind of wish-granting genie. Also, wishes aren't real.

    In all seriousness, that is something I think a lot about. I've been fairly public about having a misadventure/injury-related disability, and the question of would I be the same person without it/would I wish for it to have not happened is the kind of thing I mull over during quiet times. To acquiesce to the OP's offer in the first place, I would have to be taking the premise at their word and assuming that this is a magnanimous Christmas gift rather than a Monkey Paw, and believe that (somehow) I would just change into 'still me', but with the head injury retroactively gone, all those other nice things added, and the details worked out somehow. Regardless, I'm not clear on how this is any more pertinent for my choice than anyone else's. If one instead wishes to be a Nobilis/Godbound/Exalted character, don't you also have to either preface it with 'these abilities/benefits just appear today,' or retroactively have it happen previously but you still be you (somehow)?

    Regardless, the primary point I was making, is that for me, the answer to 'what kind of superpower would you like'-style questions would be 'a comfortable, satisfying, mundane life.' No combat prowess, no immortality (shudder!), no great power over others, etc. Power to heal the sick or other great act of beneficence would be tempting, but I don't trust that I wouldn't just end up causing a huge disruption in the world when people realize magic/superpowers are real and end up causing more harm than good.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Regardless, I'm not clear on how this is any more pertinent for my choice than anyone else's. If one instead wishes to be a Nobilis/Godbound/Exalted character, don't you also have to either preface it with 'these abilities/benefits just appear today,' or retroactively have it happen previously but you still be you (somehow)?
    It's not. It just struck me as odd as you specifically stated you wanted your personality changed in some way. I did not mean to offend by singling you out...

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    In all seriousness, that is something I think a lot about. I've been fairly public about having a misadventure/injury-related disability, and the question of would I be the same person without it/would I wish for it to have not happened is the kind of thing I mull over during quiet times.
    You wouldn't be. In the beginning you would but you would have to change, adjust even. Your post reminded me of the comic where Vampire!Durkon and Belkar first talk. I recently rethought about that scene.

    Belkar is someone who changed slowly while the vampire was a forced change. Technically it's not Durkon which ruins the idea somewhat. Still Belkar had some choice in the matter. Which is why i thought your idea was worth discussing. My wish of being a Super Sayan (more importantly a gender flipped one) would cause quite the stir; good thing I'll be almost undefeatable. I know i wouldn't remain me forever but picking who i wished to be would sit better to me.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcore View Post
    It's not. It just struck me as odd as you specifically stated you wanted your personality changed in some way. I did not mean to offend by singling you out...
    I'm not offended, merely confused at why my entry caused the reaction.
    Where did I say I wanted my personality changed? I don't think I said that specifically or otherwise.

    You wouldn't be. In the beginning you would but you would have to change, adjust even. Your post reminded me of the comic where Vampire!Durkon and Belkar first talk. I recently rethought about that scene.

    Belkar is someone who changed slowly while the vampire was a forced change. Technically it's not Durkon which ruins the idea somewhat. Still Belkar had some choice in the matter. Which is why i thought your idea was worth discussing. My wish of being a Super Sayan (more importantly a gender flipped one) would cause quite the stir; good thing I'll be almost undefeatable. I know i wouldn't remain me forever but picking who i wished to be would sit better to me.
    Hmmm. I think I would still want to have learned the lessons I have learned through my misadventures, so wouldn't want to take them having happened away, but wouldn't mind the 'miraculous cure' that getting to rewrite my character sheet/become a starting GURPS character would entail.

    The Durkon situation is one of those sticky wickets that a confirmed soul/'actual self' does to storytelling. It's not Durkon with a forced personality change, it's just someone with all of Durkon's memories and inhabiting their body and who has a different personality. It's a distinction without a clear meaning except that the story specifically show us that it does (because 'actual Durkon' is in there imprisoned).

  28. - Top - End - #28
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    RogueGuy

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    I am going to be a crazy person here and say Rifts. I want to pilot a giant magical Mech at level 1. yes there is a class that allows you to do precisely that. you know, I find it refreshing that Rifts never bothered concerning itself with "game balance".
    Alternatively I could be a ghostbuster in my ghostbuster campaign.
    Last edited by vasilidor; 2021-01-08 at 12:52 PM.
    the first half of the meaning of life is that there isn't one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zarionofarabel View Post
    PL10 Mutants & Masterminds superhero, definitely!
    Yeah, a superhero or possibly a Traveller retired scout with my own starship and a high level of Jack-of-all-Trades skill.
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    I've tallied up all the points for this thread, and consulted with the debate judges, and the verdict is clear: JoeJ wins the thread.

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