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2021-03-27, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
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2021-03-27, 03:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-03-27, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
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2021-03-27, 03:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-03-27, 04:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
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Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2021-03-27, 04:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-03-27, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
I don't like how the human's fluff doesn't fit the abilities, like, at all. You're going to tell me these things don't have a Wis penalty? Come on.
LA +0 seems like the right fit. It's a great option, but +1 seems like a bit much.
By the way, the favored class: any property which was discussed earlier is actually very useful for any table which uses these rules, IMO. Good for pretty much anything more complex than pure caster.
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2021-03-27, 06:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2021-03-27, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Human seems to be an easy LA +0. Sure, there are more powerful officially designated LA +0 races out there, but Human seems like a decent base line.
Fun fact: Tibbit and Dvati from Dragon compendium have any language as a bonus language, and lack the "except secret languages like Druidic" clause that most others have.My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
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2021-03-27, 06:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-03-27, 09:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
The LA Assignment Threads: Attempting to Make Monsters Playable Since 2016
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2021-03-28, 01:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
I mean, a high level wizard can just shapechange into a human, right? Why bother when the wizard just does it better?
LA: -0
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2021-03-28, 03:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Srsly, guys? A human beatstick gets free power attack. A human cleric gets free DIVINE METAMAGIC. And you don't seem to realize the number of high-op builds whose XP penalty a human just nopes. That XP penalty is the only reason we still see halfling rogues 20 and half-orc barbarians 20. And humans just don't care. Imagine taking a level in a prestige class that gives you these two things and ONE EXTRA SKILL POINT per level, FOREVER. Regardless of the class you take that level in. Is there a prestige class that does this? Of course not, because it would be ridiciously overpowered. I mean, there is a reason why humans are the most populous player race in practically every D&D setting. Not to mention the REAL LIFE setting.
A strong +1, and if I'd play with LA buyoff, I had no scruples to set it to +2.Last edited by Bavarian itP; 2021-03-28 at 03:21 AM.
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2021-03-28, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
...How much is this serious and how much is taking the piss?
Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
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2021-03-28, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
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2021-03-28, 11:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
I agree with this. +0.
Human is the golden standard against which all other races are judged. Both thematically and mechanically they should be LA +0 (albeit a strong one). There are many other races that are competitive, at least under some general circumstances, that also warrant +0. Many many default races are probably too niche or too penalized to deserve that, though, and would maybe warrant a -0 instead.
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2021-03-28, 02:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Last edited by Remuko; 2021-03-28 at 02:22 PM.
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2021-03-28, 03:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Yeah, it was a little early because we happened to get to where Humans would fall alphabetically in Libris Mortis before the actual first of the month. 100% joke, though I did have a small part of me wondering if anyone would genuinely argue in favor of -0 or +1. Anyway...
Mummified Creature
Acquired or Inherited: Acquired
Applied To: Any corporeal Giant, Humanoid, or Monstrous Humanoid
Type: Changed to Undead (Augmented [base creature type])
Size: Unchanged
Space/Reach: Unchanged
Hit Dice: Increase all current and future HD to D12
Speed: -10' to land speed, to a minimum of 10'
Ability Scores: Str +8, Dex +0, Con -, Int -4, Wis +4, Cha +4 - Net +12, one penalty
Armor Class: Natural Armor increases to 10, no change if it was already equal or higher.
Skills: Unchanged
CR: +3
WotC LA: +4
Our LA: +2
DR 5/- and Fire Vulnerability cap off a decent chassis. For reference, we gave standard Mummies +0 with 8 RHD. In addition to keeping its natural weapons, the Mummified Creature gains a slam attack if it didn't already have one. (1d8 damage for Medium creatures, keep old damage if it already had a slam.) All of the Mummy's natural weapons can inflict Mummy Rot, which works exactly the same way a standard Mummy's does. (Mummified Kobold anyone?) They also have the exact same Despair ability, forcing anything that sees them to make a Charisma-based Fortitude save vs 1d4 rounds of being paralyzed in fear. There's also the usual 24-hour immunity, but this one is regardless of success or failure on the initial save.
In short, like the Gravetouched Ghoul before them, they are a standard Mummy that keeps everything they had in life. They don't get as much Strength though, probably because WotC figured +14 was a bit much for a template they actually expected the PCs to use on occasion.Last edited by Debatra; 2021-04-01 at 08:14 PM.
Kaedanis Pyran, tai faernae.
The LA Assignment Threads: Attempting to Make Monsters Playable Since 2016
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2021-03-28, 04:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
My gut feeling tells me it's a no-brainer (with that -4 to Int, he) at +1. The Int penalty, movement reduction and fire vulnerability are somewhat annoying. But the other ability boosts are huge, Despair is a potent ability that does not require an action to be used (and has a range that's more or less unlimited), Mummy Rot has an incubation period of 1 minute so is actually somewhat relevant as a disease, the natural armor bonus is titanic, and the usual undead immunities are what they are.
I'd be hard-pressed to take it at LA +3, though. +8 Str goes only so far into enhancing one's damage potiential.
Hence, I vote LA+2.VC XV, The horsemen are drawing nearer: The Alien and the Omen (part 1 and part 2).
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2021-03-28, 04:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Mummified Creature
- Type change to undead (giants, humanoids and monstrous humanoids only. HD become d12)
- Speed decreases by 10 ft.
- +10 natural armor (which sadly does not stack with an existing value).
- Slam attack.
- Despair: on sight, enemies must make a Will save or be paralyzed with feat 1d4 rounds. Works 1/day on any given creature.
- Mummy rot: supernatural disease with relatively quick onset. 1d6 Con & 1d6 Cha.
- DR 5/-.
- Vulnerability to fire.
- Str +8, Con --, Int -4, Wis +4, Cha +4: net +12, one non-ability. Hit to Int is frustrating.
I dunno about this one. I'm going to say LA +2 for now, but I could be swayed down. The template comes with inbuilt downsides: loss of speed, vulnerability to fire, and -4 to Int. For that you get solid natural armor, two special attacks (disease won't act quick enough for most combats), and DR 5/-. Could make a decent Cleric or Swordsage, for instance.
As a DM, have to say this is frustrating as CR +3, because I don't think it powers the base creature up enough to be worth this.Last edited by Thurbane; 2021-03-28 at 04:50 PM.
My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
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2021-03-28, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
The stat boosts are pretty good, and the natural armor, with DR 5/- and d12 (plus the bonus from desecrate and corpsecrafter) gives it very good durability. I would see a martial cleric want this template without a doubt, even at +2. It doesn't have any incredible ability, though (Despair is very good, but a strong creature will probably resist and a horde of lower creatures will not be wiped out in 1d4 rounds), and Despair even becomes dangerous in social situations. +2 seems reasonable to me, maybe a weak +3.
Last edited by Beni-Kujaku; 2021-03-28 at 05:00 PM.
Resurrecting the Negative LA thread, comments and discussion are very welcome!
Do you want to build monstrous characters with reasonable LA? Join the Monster Mash! Currently, round XII: One-Punch Monster!!! Come judge single-strike entries!
Nice find! Have a cookie!
Searchable spreadsheet of 3.5 monsters by abilities, now with all online monsters
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2021-03-28, 04:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
I think this would be a little too strong for +2, if not for the drawbacks. With the penalties to speed and Int combined with the vulnerability to a common energy type, though, I think that's enough to satisfy my concerns. I'd give it a +2.
It doesn't get any turn resistance, does it?Last edited by Troacctid; 2021-03-28 at 04:57 PM.
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2021-03-28, 06:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
You pay a real price for this template, but it's still way too good for +1 IMO. Despair is very strong, 10 NA and DR help mitigate the HP loss, and the ability boosts are very good.
I'm voting LA +2 for now, but I might even be willing to change my vote to +3 if I see any good arguements for that.
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2021-03-28, 06:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
High +0, but yes.
I believe "secret languages" are specifically excluded. They can learn languages that they can't speak (e.g. Aboleth), which lets them understand them (and, if applicable, write their written component)...unless, of course, the unspeakable language is also secret. It's not clear what languages (other than Druidic and, if it still exists, Thieves' Cant) qualify.
Moving onto Mummified Creatures, let me draw your attention to the image used for them:
Spoiler
That's not the preserved remains of some great king. That's a flubbed necromancy experiment that was stuffed into the storage room, where it smashed apart crates full of toilet paper, plaster of Paris, and bottled water in search of...some kind of exotic woodwind instrument? What is that thing it's dragging? Is it supposed to be an ox skull or something?
In any case, mummified characters get a variety of boosts. A spot of damage reduction, d12 hit dice, some attribute boosts, an okay natural weapon, a disease that might have some marginal effect in unusually long fights. The big ones are a potentially double-digit increase to natural armor, +8 Strength, and the Despair ability. How useful are they?
Let's be honest, this is a bruiser class. Casters (wizards &c aside) like the Wisdom and Charisma bonuses, but that's small fry compared to the abilities which boost strength and tankiness (in a not-necessarily-futile effort to balance out losing a Constitution score). Potentially +10 to non-touch AC, +4 to melee attack and damage rolls, and a bit of DR are pretty significant buffs, and action-free paralysis is potentially awesome.
On the other hand, you're losing Intelligence (because some idiot assumed they could take brains out of mummies without any ill effect...though they were righter about that than I expected), you slow down (because some genius decided to try and restrain their dead leaders in case something like this happened), and worst of all, you're flammable. You don't have any defenses applicable to fireballs or dragons' breath, making fire vulnerability is extra dangerous.
A level adjustment of +2 seems reasonable. You're probably better at smashing trash mooks, especially if the party joins in on finishing off paralyzed enemies, but sufficiently literal firepower will burn you to a crisp faster than you can say "At least I don't have a Dex penalty".
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2021-03-28, 06:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
I made a webcomic, featuring absurdity, terrible art, and alleged morals.
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2021-03-28, 06:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-03-28, 06:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
On a cleric or druid, this is maybe worth +2 at low levels and -0 at high levels, because being behind a full spell level is going to suck the higher level you get, and the benefits just don't keep up with what spells give you. But this is Str +8, NA +10, DR 5/- creature. Cleric or druid seems like a bad assumption for the most direct choice: Paladin.
Mummified Human, Paladin Of Tyranny 5. You've got +9 to-hit before taking point-bought Str into account, you have Int 4 but still get 2 skill points per level, which is Ride and either Handle Animal or Diplomacy. Your horse is smarter than you but who cares, it gives you speed to make up for the fact that your own speed sucks. You've got Deadly Touch for either delivering damage+disease or healing yourself (maybe healing your mount too?), you've got Wis +4 boosting your bad Will save, you've got Cha +4 boosting all your saves. The latter will protect against most sources of fire damage (AoEs), and if you're really worried about fire-wielding monsters, you can trade away your armor and a feat for Dragonscale Husk (DrM pg 12) for a scales-with-level untyped bonus to AC and ER 5 (everything but sonic).
"Wait, isn't it NA and thus wouldn't stack with the mummified?" AFAICT, it's not an armor bonus or an NA bonus. Granted, it doesn't stack with armor and has ACP and max Dex, but that doesn't change that it's an untyped bonus. YMMV on how your DM chooses to read it though.
This would also work well as a Crusader or Swordsage. Str boosting accuracy/damage, and either Wis or Cha getting solid class synergy. Swordsage gets evasion at 9th, which helps against most sources of fire damage, and Crusader has their delayed damage tanking ability. Going (Unarmed?) Swordsage also gives you an easy way to go into Shadow Sun Ninja, with their alternating at-will positive/negative energy touches for unlimited out-of-combat healing in your party.
On a cleric, +2 kills you in the high levels. On a paladin, swordsage, or crusader? This is a strong +2, maybe a weak +3, and it remains fairly useful well into the high levels.
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2021-03-28, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
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2021-03-28, 08:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
+2 It has a LOT going for it. Need fire res/evasion to be extra safe, but flat DR makes up huge for the HP. A ton of goodies for being a bit slower and dumb. Bunch of strength and NA, wis and cha that is respectable, and your despair. Which might be workable with dread witch? It is a fear effect correct?
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2021-03-28, 10:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: LA Assignment Thread X: New Year, New Management, Same Old Unplayable Monsters
Note that if you already have a racial bonus to natural armor, this doesn't give as much as it would on, say, a human. Of course, a lot of monsters still don't have that much natural armor anyways, so you're probably getting a not insignificant bonus whatever you go for. Especially since you don't get a Dexterity penalty.
I wonder why you lose movement speed though. I know Dex and movement speed aren't tied together, but I wonder how you'd be considerably slower than in life while still being nimble enough to dodge things.Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
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