Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 17 of 17 FirstFirst ... 7891011121314151617
Results 481 to 486 of 486
  1. - Top - End - #481
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Aug 2020

    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post

    I can't speak for the US, but I know it is legal in Canada. Case in point is a rabies vaccine. Before I can work as an Animal Health Tech, or with many different species of wild animal, I must have a rabies vaccine. If I don't have it? I won't be hired/can't work. There is no reason employers can't use the same logic with a COVID vaccine.
    Not sure how it looks in Canada and US but this kind of requirements in Poland are established in law or at least in standards issued by oversee agency. No employer can established its own requirements about medical issues, vaccination etc. Moreover we have pretty much closed catalogue of information the employer can asked from potential employee, and it doesn't include any question about medical history so in fact they are prohibited to even asked if you are vaccinated.
    "By Google's own reckoning, 60% of the ads that are charged for are never seen by any human being – literally the majority of the industry's product is a figment of feverish machine imaginations." Pluralistic

    The bots are selling ads to bots which mostly bots are viewing, We really are living in XXI century.

  2. - Top - End - #482
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Justanotherhero View Post
    Within the european union I assume.that privacy laws would make that rather difficult for standard businesses. Since gathering unnecessary data is one of the triggers:

    "General Data Protection Regulation Article 5(1)(c) states that personal data shall be “adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which they are processed.” So, personal data that is excessive or unnecessary cannot be collected and processed."

    Gathering personal data to fuel a vendetta against Anti Vaxxers would most likely fall under that I believe.

    Besides the downright creepiness of unqualified and unchecked people getting insights into other people's life.
    Imagine living in a small town and your Aldi cashier starts the rumour you are obviously terminally ill and will die soon since you have a medical vaccine exception. Yeah no thanks to that.
    Actually in this case your vaccination status would not be unnecessary data. The government shuts down the business based on whether or not your clients are healthy. In fact your entire industry depends on this not happening in the aggregate. Which means it is an absolute necessity for your business to know whether people are potential typhoid Mary's or not.

  3. - Top - End - #483
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Tyndmyr's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maryland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by NichG View Post
    The math is that the Herd Immunity Threshold is 1-1/R0. So for Covid (taking the 3.5 estimate), that means we would need 71% immunity in the population, whereas measles requires up to 94%. So yes, 71% is less than 94%. However, that also means that if 100% of people had the Astra Zeneca vaccine, it would just barely be enough, because the AZ vaccine is about 6 times less effective than Moderna/Pfizer (70% versus 95%), and something like 10 times less effective than the MMR vaccine (70% versus 97%).
    It's somewhat lower. Resistance from actually getting the disease stacks with vaccination, and a fair number of people have had the disease(some estimates are around 71 million).

    Additionally, that is a very conservative estimate. Measles vaccination is, as you noted, is below that mark, and also isn't 100% effective. And yet, measles is very rare. The US as a whole is sub-1000 cases in any given year. Such a rate for Covid would be an effective end to the pandemic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    The problem is literally anti-vaxxers and other people who refuse to get the vaccine for non-medical reasons. Measles has actually experienced a resurgance almost entirely due to these sorts of people.
    Anti-vaxxers are not great, but they're not essential for this particular effort. The virulence is far lower than for measles. We can largely ignore them and still beat this with a large margin to spare.

    Even if it *was* only reduced to the infection rate of measles, that would be a win. If covid were only infecting perhaps 900 people per year, a bad year for measles in the US, we'd be looking at single digit numbers of deaths. Compared to where we've been, that's pretty much nothing. And since covid is vastly less infectious than measles, we can probably outperform that easily.

    A few percent of the population refusing vaccines isn't that crucial, making the vaccines for the other 90-odd percent is. Right now, mostly people are just waiting on available appointments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I can't speak for the US, but I know it is legal in Canada. Case in point is a rabies vaccine. Before I can work as an Animal Health Tech, or with many different species of wild animal, I must have a rabies vaccine. If I don't have it? I won't be hired/can't work. There is no reason employers can't use the same logic with a COVID vaccine.
    Specific legalities probably vary greatly from place to place. However, in the US, the covid vaccines are approved under an emergency use authorization, and all such authorizations explicitly forbid the mandating of them, and require that it be the individual's choice if they wish to take it or not.

    We do have some jobs that require vaccines as well, but there's a huge difference between emergency authorizations and fully approved vaccines. This is, incidentally, the reason why the US military cannot require troops to take them. Masks are kind of a different thing, since masks don't require the approvals drugs do(and anyways, many masks were already in common use). This doesn't prohibit strongly encouraging vaccination, of course, and many places do so, often offering time off to go get the vaccine. That *seems* to be okay, given how common it is.

    TLDR: If you're in the US and contemplating some sort of vaccine mandate for your employees, you should probably find an actual lawyer that specializes in this.
    Last edited by Tyndmyr; 2021-04-08 at 02:19 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #484
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2010

    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    It's somewhat lower. Resistance from actually getting the disease stacks with vaccination, and a fair number of people have had the disease(some estimates are around 71 million).

    Additionally, that is a very conservative estimate. Measles vaccination is, as you noted, is below that mark, and also isn't 100% effective. And yet, measles is very rare. The US as a whole is sub-1000 cases in any given year. Such a rate for Covid would be an effective end to the pandemic.
    If you need 70% population immunity (from any source) to keep Covid outbreaks from growing, and you have the ability to sustain (administratively, culturally, in terms of effectiveness of available vaccines, etc) say a 65% population immunity from vaccination specifically, then as the population turns over - as people are born and die - you can expect that at any given time, even say a century from now, about 5% of your population will go through the experience of having Covid at some point in their life (in practice more like 10% if you have periodic outbreaks rather than slow burn, because of how overshoot works) as long as Covid isn't eradicated world-wide. If you only get 60% population immunity from vaccination rather than 65%, that number doubles. If you get 70%, its zero in the limit of an infinite population.

    A few percentage points can have an outsized effect when you're sitting very close to threshold, especially magnified by time. Given that the numbers are pretty close, precaution makes sense until we actually hit e.g. zero cases per day for a month. If that does in fact turn out to be easy to achieve, great. But saying 'it will be easy, so lets relax now' is exactly how we've drawn out this pandemic in the past.
    Last edited by NichG; 2021-04-08 at 02:43 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #485
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    So apparently there are Big Party-going plans for when vaccination reaches that critical herd immunity point.

    Quote Originally Posted by NY Post
    Some have dubbed it “slutty summer” or “the whoring ’20s.” Others have proclaimed that we’re in for a “Shot Girl Summer,” inspired by the viral Megan Thee Stallion song “Hot Girl Summer.” No matter what you call it, 1967’s Summer of Love isn’t going to have anything on 2021. With all New Yorkers over 16 eligible to be vaccinated and bars and restaurants opening, city dwellers have one thing planned for this summer: getting it on.
    Well, as a married man this isn't going to be of interest to me, but I hope other people are careful and remember there are other diseases in the world besides COVID

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    "Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."

    -Valery Legasov in Chernobyl

  6. - Top - End - #486
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    ElfPirate

    Join Date
    Aug 2013

    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    So apparently there are Big Party-going plans for when vaccination reaches that critical herd immunity point.



    Well, as a married man this isn't going to be of interest to me, but I hope other people are careful and remember there are other diseases in the world besides COVID

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    They won't. But on the upside repopulating after a crisis is a time-honoured tradition of human societies.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •