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  1. - Top - End - #301
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grey_Wolf_c's Avatar

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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogar Demonblud View Post
    The fun bit? Thalidomide wasn't even something pregnant women should have been taking. Doctors were just writing prescriptions for the placebo effect on morning sickness.
    Nope. That's as accurate as saying that a certain hypertension medicine that comes in a blue diamond-shaped pill is just written for the placebo effect on the male reproductive organ. There is nothing placebo about the anti-emetic properties of thalidomide.

    As to what percentage of mothers were affected, I cannot find the number, although wikipedia suggests the effect was strongly localized to West Germany, with a full half of all cases (which might explain the difference in our perception of the event - I too have not encountered anyone affected). If I'm reading this right, in fact, it sounds like there is not probabilities involved - if taken regularly before the third trimester, it will cause birth defects or outright death of the fetus. From that, I'd say that those not affected either didn't take it regularly, or only started taking it after it no longer would affect the development of the limbs. Not every pregnancy involves morning sickness so bad you need medicine, after all.

    Grey Wolf
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2021-02-25 at 10:01 AM.
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    There is a world of imagination
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  2. - Top - End - #302
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Nope. That's as accurate as saying that a certain hypertension medicine that comes in a blue diamond-shaped pill is just written for the placebo effect on the male reproductive organ. There is nothing placebo about the anti-emetic properties of thalidomide.

    As to what percentage of mothers were affected, I cannot find the number, although wikipedia suggests the effect was strongly localized to West Germany, with a full half of all cases (which might explain the difference in our perception of the event - I too have not encountered anyone affected). If I'm reading this right, in fact, it sounds like there is not probabilities involved - if taken regularly before the third trimester, it will cause birth defects or outright death of the fetus. From that, I'd say that those not affected either didn't take it regularly, or only started taking it after it no longer would affect the development of the limbs. Not every pregnancy involves morning sickness so bad you need medicine, after all.

    Grey Wolf
    There were a lot of cases in the UK too, though apparently Germany was worse. It wasn't whether mothers needed medicine for morning sickness, it was whether they wanted it, because it was advertised. There were probably cases in France, Holland, Italy, Spain, Portugal etc.

    It was probably a real example of that joke "a first world problem", it wasn't allowed in the USA, which was good for the USA, and it wasn't available in poorer countries because it wasn't generally exported (there may well have been some rich people in poorer countries who were affected).
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  3. - Top - End - #303
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by NichG View Post
    The nature of Prisoner's Dilemma is that people using purely individual logic leads to the worst outcome for everyone including them. The solution in practice is social action rather than individual action in order to change the payouts. For example, punishing people for defecting by ostracizing them or rewarding them for cooperating or helping to offset the cases where they take a risk in order to cooperate and it goes badly.

    That is to say, you can't escape the trap purely by thinking about what you and only you should do.
    In my opinion it's worse than that, there is no escape once you are in it. The time for action is when it is being set up.
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  4. - Top - End - #304
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    In my opinion it's worse than that, there is no escape once you are in it. The time for action is when it is being set up.
    Well definitely there are points of greater or lesser leverage. But if you're in it, a lot depends on the specific dilemma I think. For something like Covid, if you have a bubble of 100 people who all agree to get vaccinated if at all possible and then provide community for each other once 80% has been met then you can get the benefits of herd immunity locally even if your broader organizational group doesn't. Organizing a vaccine buddies group to hold proof-of-immunity-only parties or community events is something a motivated individual could plausibly initiate.

    But I think it'd be much harder to resolve highly distributed consequences of defection like tragedy of the commons situations unless you have some form of leverage or power at the scale of that community already in hand. And private individuals won't generally be able to get that sort of power.

  5. - Top - End - #305
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    We've marked 50 million inoculated for COVID - well, at least one dose - but that's still just 1/6th of the US population.

    But it does seem to be making a good impact in the areas with high vaccination rates.

    My state, with its population of around 22 million, has about 1.5 million with two doses, and 1.2 million with the first.

    So, on average, we're doing a little better than the US as a whole, but that's still a lot of potential carriers and cases.
    May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.

  6. - Top - End - #306
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    Tyndmyr's Avatar

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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    That's really not bad. The US is ahead of quite a few other countries in vaccination, so relatively speaking...that's solid progress.

    And that resistant pool of people effectively stacks with resistance gained from people who've had the disease, so the overall resistant population is at least somewhat higher.

    Certainly not there yet, but that should definitely be enough to make a significant dent in the transmission rate.

  7. - Top - End - #307
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by sihnfahl View Post
    We've marked 50 million inoculated for COVID - well, at least one dose - but that's still just 1/6th of the US population.

    But it does seem to be making a good impact in the areas with high vaccination rates.

    My state, with its population of around 22 million, has about 1.5 million with two doses, and 1.2 million with the first.

    So, on average, we're doing a little better than the US as a whole, but that's still a lot of potential carriers and cases.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    That's really not bad. The US is ahead of quite a few other countries in vaccination, so relatively speaking...that's solid progress.

    And that resistant pool of people effectively stacks with resistance gained from people who've had the disease, so the overall resistant population is at least somewhat higher.

    Certainly not there yet, but that should definitely be enough to make a significant dent in the transmission rate.
    At least my country (USA) is making some improvement in getting vaccinated. I'm very happy about it.
    It's time to get my Magikarp on!

  8. - Top - End - #308
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    ElfRangerGuy

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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    The J&J vaccine has been approved by for Emergency Use by the FDA. So you have a third vaccine in the US (after Pfizer and Moderna).

    In Europe the date for approval I've seen circulate in the news is the 11th of March. That will give us a 4th vaccine, after Pfizer, Moderna and AstraZeneca.

    Things are looking up at least.
    Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett

    "Magic can turn a frog into a prince. Science can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with." Terry Pratchett
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  9. - Top - End - #309
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by farothel View Post
    In Europe the date for approval I've seen circulate in the news is the 11th of March. That will give us a 4th vaccine, after Pfizer, Moderna and AstraZeneca.
    After distribution gets settled down. And production.
    May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.

  10. - Top - End - #310
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    They have three million plus doses ready to ship now.

  11. - Top - End - #311
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    DrowGuy

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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Is it true that the second COVID makes you sleepy? I heard from my other supervisor that the second COVID vaccine makes you sleepy.
    It's time to get my Magikarp on!

  12. - Top - End - #312
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Is it true that the second COVID makes you sleepy? I heard from my other supervisor that the second COVID vaccine makes you sleepy.
    Ive heard of a variety of potential side effects, ranging from "nothing" to "i might as well have just gotten the darn virus."

    Most of it seems like unreliable hearsay to me. The only people i would really trust for a list of known side effects are the people administering the shot, and people i know have gotten it.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  13. - Top - End - #313
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    Tyndmyr's Avatar

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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Is it true that the second COVID makes you sleepy? I heard from my other supervisor that the second COVID vaccine makes you sleepy.
    Feeling tired/sleepy is a fairly common side effect for a lot of things, I could totally see him experiencing something like that for a little bit.

    Of course, anecdotes are going to vary a fair bit. You might react different from your pals, yknow? That's pretty much every vaccine.

    In the military, they catch up *all* your vaccines at one go. Walk down the line, get needles stabbed in yer shoulders until all the boxes are checked. If you don't have medical records, welp, enjoy getting everything.

    It's not uncommon for folks to feel pretty crappy for the next few days afterward, but it's not severe enough to make them stop doing it.

    I've known some folks to have mild reactions to this one, but others have said they've gotten no symptoms. Doesn't seem all that different from a flu shot.

  14. - Top - End - #314
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartmanhomer View Post
    Is it true that the second COVID makes you sleepy? I heard from my other supervisor that the second COVID vaccine makes you sleepy.
    Reactions vary, of course.

    But, yes, fatigue and fever tend to be the more common side-effects.
    May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.

  15. - Top - End - #315
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    I know two people who have had the first shot, and one who has had both. Reports were some pain at the injection site for the next day or so, and I seem to recall that the second shot made that person feel kinda bad for about a day. Which basically sounds like a flu shot to me.

    It's important to keep in mind that even if the vaccine makes you feel like crap for a day or so, its not actually you being sick. It's just your body perceiving that fresh load of spike protein as a threat, and firing up the most immediate defensive measures: raising your temperature and making you feel tired to avoid expending unnecessary energy.
    Blood-red were his spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat,
    When they shot him down on the highway,
    Down like a dog on the highway,
    And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.


    Alfred Noyes, The Highwayman, 1906.

  16. - Top - End - #316
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    In particular with the second shot it is, in part, linked to the fact that the first shot has trained your immune system to react to stimuli...that's kinda the point. The second shot is providing more of the stuff your body is now trained to fight...and so it can cause it to gear up for a reaction to drive out the perceived invader. The fever/fatigue/sleepiness can all be linked to your immune system kicking in. Now this is true for pretty much any booster shot BTW not just the COVID ones. but basically it is a good sign that your body learned from the first one.

    Now if you'd heard stories that this can led to all sorts of illness down the road that start in a similar manner....No but close... there are similar classes of shots (certain boosters) that can cause all sorts of issues (mostly auto-immune disorders)..these are not vaccines but the stories can get mixed up and can have similar early signs.

  17. - Top - End - #317
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Speaking for myself I got the vaccine on monday. I've slept for about 10 hours each night since. On the first night I got a fever and chills but that was gone by morning.
    Literally a couple of hours ago I got a sudden wave of nausea and dizziness. It's now better, in that I don't feel like I'm going to throw up any second but still there in the background.
    Not pleasant but way better than getting COVID, especially for a 50 + asthmatic
    All Comicshorse's posts come with the advisor : This is just my opinion any difficulties arising from implementing my ideas are your own problem

  18. - Top - End - #318
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Getting my second shot next week. It's kinda strange to actually get a vaccine, with all that reputation about Russia.
    I think after-vaccine symptoms are getting harder with age, personally: barely noticed my obligatory shots when I was a kid and a teen, now I'm almost 30 and I have to sleep them off.


    EDIT: I was gung-ho for a while about whole #DeathToTheCoronavirus, but now I'm just tired of this crap and want it to end. And if I have to stuff a sock or dozen into anti-vaxxers' air-ducts to make them stop breathing this **** everywhere - so be it.
    Last edited by Sigako; 2021-03-05 at 06:07 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #319
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    If you want I haven't washed my gym socks yet this week. That'd give you five pair to use.

  20. - Top - End - #320
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Judging by amount of AV-ers around - we'll have to stockpile them in bulk.

  21. - Top - End - #321
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    Hey, it's tournament time. We can get them in bulk.

  22. - Top - End - #322
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    We could organize a charity this way - donate them after each game, for a noble goal.

  23. - Top - End - #323
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

    If we'd done this a couple weeks ago we could've gotten the ones from the state hockey tournament as well.

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