This year we kill it: Corona Virus Thread Mark II

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The fun bit? Thalidomide wasn't even something pregnant women should have been taking. Doctors were just writing prescriptions for the placebo effect on morning sickness.

Nope. That's as accurate as saying that a certain hypertension medicine that comes in a blue diamond-shaped pill is just written for the placebo effect on the male reproductive organ. There is nothing placebo about the anti-emetic properties of thalidomide.

As to what percentage of mothers were affected, I cannot find the number, although wikipedia suggests the effect was strongly localized to West Germany, with a full half of all cases (which might explain the difference in our perception of the event - I too have not encountered anyone affected). If I'm reading this right, in fact, it sounds like there is not probabilities involved - if taken regularly before the third trimester, it will cause birth defects or outright death of the fetus. From that, I'd say that those not affected either didn't take it regularly, or only started taking it after it no longer would affect the development of the limbs. Not every pregnancy involves morning sickness so bad you need medicine, after all.

Grey Wolf

[halfeye]

Nope. That's as accurate as saying that a certain hypertension medicine that comes in a blue diamond-shaped pill is just written for the placebo effect on the male reproductive organ. There is nothing placebo about the anti-emetic properties of thalidomide.

As to what percentage of mothers were affected, I cannot find the number, although wikipedia suggests the effect was strongly localized to West Germany, with a full half of all cases (which might explain the difference in our perception of the event - I too have not encountered anyone affected). If I'm reading this right, in fact, it sounds like there is not probabilities involved - if taken regularly before the third trimester, it will cause birth defects or outright death of the fetus. From that, I'd say that those not affected either didn't take it regularly, or only started taking it after it no longer would affect the development of the limbs. Not every pregnancy involves morning sickness so bad you need medicine, after all.

Grey Wolf

There were a lot of cases in the UK too, though apparently Germany was worse. It wasn't whether mothers needed medicine for morning sickness, it was whether they wanted it, because it was advertised. There were probably cases in France, Holland, Italy, Spain, Portugal etc.

It was probably a real example of that joke "a first world problem", it wasn't allowed in the USA, which was good for the USA, and it wasn't available in poorer countries because it wasn't generally exported (there may well have been some rich people in poorer countries who were affected).

[halfeye]

The nature of Prisoner's Dilemma is that people using purely individual logic leads to the worst outcome for everyone including them. The solution in practice is social action rather than individual action in order to change the payouts. For example, punishing people for defecting by ostracizing them or rewarding them for cooperating or helping to offset the cases where they take a risk in order to cooperate and it goes badly.

That is to say, you can't escape the trap purely by thinking about what you and only you should do.

In my opinion it's worse than that, there is no escape once you are in it. The time for action is when it is being set up.

[NichG]

In my opinion it's worse than that, there is no escape once you are in it. The time for action is when it is being set up.

Well definitely there are points of greater or lesser leverage. But if you're in it, a lot depends on the specific dilemma I think. For something like Covid, if you have a bubble of 100 people who all agree to get vaccinated if at all possible and then provide community for each other once 80% has been met then you can get the benefits of herd immunity locally even if your broader organizational group doesn't. Organizing a vaccine buddies group to hold proof-of-immunity-only parties or community events is something a motivated individual could plausibly initiate.

But I think it'd be much harder to resolve highly distributed consequences of defection like tragedy of the commons situations unless you have some form of leverage or power at the scale of that community already in hand. And private individuals won't generally be able to get that sort of power.

[sihnfahl]

We've marked 50 million inoculated for COVID - well, at least one dose - but that's still just 1/6th of the US population.

But it does seem to be making a good impact in the areas with high vaccination rates.

My state, with its population of around 22 million, has about 1.5 million with two doses, and 1.2 million with the first.

So, on average, we're doing a little better than the US as a whole, but that's still a lot of potential carriers and cases.

[Tyndmyr]

That's really not bad. The US is ahead of quite a few other countries in vaccination, so relatively speaking...that's solid progress.

And that resistant pool of people effectively stacks with resistance gained from people who've had the disease, so the overall resistant population is at least somewhat higher.

Certainly not there yet, but that should definitely be enough to make a significant dent in the transmission rate.

[Bartmanhomer]

We've marked 50 million inoculated for COVID - well, at least one dose - but that's still just 1/6th of the US population.

But it does seem to be making a good impact in the areas with high vaccination rates.

My state, with its population of around 22 million, has about 1.5 million with two doses, and 1.2 million with the first.

So, on average, we're doing a little better than the US as a whole, but that's still a lot of potential carriers and cases.

That's really not bad. The US is ahead of quite a few other countries in vaccination, so relatively speaking...that's solid progress.

And that resistant pool of people effectively stacks with resistance gained from people who've had the disease, so the overall resistant population is at least somewhat higher.

Certainly not there yet, but that should definitely be enough to make a significant dent in the transmission rate.

At least my country (USA) is making some improvement in getting vaccinated. I'm very happy about it.

[farothel]

The J&J vaccine has been approved by for Emergency Use by the FDA. So you have a third vaccine in the US (after Pfizer and Moderna).

In Europe the date for approval I've seen circulate in the news is the 11th of March. That will give us a 4th vaccine, after Pfizer, Moderna and AstraZeneca.

Things are looking up at least.

[sihnfahl]

In Europe the date for approval I've seen circulate in the news is the 11th of March. That will give us a 4th vaccine, after Pfizer, Moderna and AstraZeneca.

After distribution gets settled down. And production.

[Rogar Demonblud]

They have three million plus doses ready to ship now.

[Bartmanhomer]

Is it true that the second COVID makes you sleepy? I heard from my other supervisor that the second COVID vaccine makes you sleepy.

[Keltest]

Is it true that the second COVID makes you sleepy? I heard from my other supervisor that the second COVID vaccine makes you sleepy.

Ive heard of a variety of potential side effects, ranging from "nothing" to "i might as well have just gotten the darn virus."

Most of it seems like unreliable hearsay to me. The only people i would really trust for a list of known side effects are the people administering the shot, and people i know have gotten it.

[Tyndmyr]

Is it true that the second COVID makes you sleepy? I heard from my other supervisor that the second COVID vaccine makes you sleepy.

Feeling tired/sleepy is a fairly common side effect for a lot of things, I could totally see him experiencing something like that for a little bit.

Of course, anecdotes are going to vary a fair bit. You might react different from your pals, yknow? That's pretty much every vaccine.

In the military, they catch up *all* your vaccines at one go. Walk down the line, get needles stabbed in yer shoulders until all the boxes are checked. If you don't have medical records, welp, enjoy getting everything.

It's not uncommon for folks to feel pretty crappy for the next few days afterward, but it's not severe enough to make them stop doing it.

I've known some folks to have mild reactions to this one, but others have said they've gotten no symptoms. Doesn't seem all that different from a flu shot.

[sihnfahl]

Is it true that the second COVID makes you sleepy? I heard from my other supervisor that the second COVID vaccine makes you sleepy.

Reactions vary, of course.

But, yes, fatigue and fever tend to be the more common side-effects.

[warty goblin]

I know two people who have had the first shot, and one who has had both. Reports were some pain at the injection site for the next day or so, and I seem to recall that the second shot made that person feel kinda bad for about a day. Which basically sounds like a flu shot to me.

It's important to keep in mind that even if the vaccine makes you feel like crap for a day or so, its not actually you being sick. It's just your body perceiving that fresh load of spike protein as a threat, and firing up the most immediate defensive measures: raising your temperature and making you feel tired to avoid expending unnecessary energy.

[sktarq]

In particular with the second shot it is, in part, linked to the fact that the first shot has trained your immune system to react to stimuli...that's kinda the point. The second shot is providing more of the stuff your body is now trained to fight...and so it can cause it to gear up for a reaction to drive out the perceived invader. The fever/fatigue/sleepiness can all be linked to your immune system kicking in. Now this is true for pretty much any booster shot BTW not just the COVID ones. but basically it is a good sign that your body learned from the first one.

Now if you'd heard stories that this can led to all sorts of illness down the road that start in a similar manner....No but close... there are similar classes of shots (certain boosters) that can cause all sorts of issues (mostly auto-immune disorders)..these are not vaccines but the stories can get mixed up and can have similar early signs.

[comicshorse]

Speaking for myself I got the vaccine on monday. I've slept for about 10 hours each night since. On the first night I got a fever and chills but that was gone by morning.
Literally a couple of hours ago I got a sudden wave of nausea and dizziness. It's now better, in that I don't feel like I'm going to throw up any second but still there in the background.
Not pleasant but way better than getting COVID, especially for a 50 + asthmatic

[Sigako]

Getting my second shot next week. It's kinda strange to actually get a vaccine, with all that reputation about Russia.
I think after-vaccine symptoms are getting harder with age, personally: barely noticed my obligatory shots when I was a kid and a teen, now I'm almost 30 and I have to sleep them off.


EDIT: I was gung-ho for a while about whole #DeathToTheCoronavirus, but now I'm just tired of this crap and want it to end. And if I have to stuff a sock or dozen into anti-vaxxers' air-ducts to make them stop breathing this **** everywhere - so be it.

[Rogar Demonblud]

If you want I haven't washed my gym socks yet this week. That'd give you five pair to use.

[Sigako]

Judging by amount of AV-ers around - we'll have to stockpile them in bulk.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Hey, it's tournament time. We can get them in bulk.

[Sigako]

We could organize a charity this way - donate them after each game, for a noble goal.

[Rogar Demonblud]

If we'd done this a couple weeks ago we could've gotten the ones from the state hockey tournament as well.

[Rogar Demonblud]

And the Johnson and Johnson vaccine is granted the Emergency Use Authorization.

[sihnfahl]

And the Johnson and Johnson vaccine is granted the Emergency Use Authorization.

Which was no big surprise. Plus, being single shot, easier to work with from a distribution standpoint. One and done, no need for followups, no needing to hold vaccinations in reserve for the second dose, etc.

[Lacco]

Is it true that the second COVID makes you sleepy? I heard from my other supervisor that the second COVID vaccine makes you sleepy.

If you are talking about vaccine shots... based on anecdotal evidence... yes. My sister got both in. First was crappy feelings all around, the second was 2 days of sleeping or wanting to sleep.

But based on my current feelings (and my wife's feelings), catching covid gets you much more sleepy than that.

Never been so tired in my life.

[Sigako]

Got my 2nd shot this Wednesday, but was too overworked to say something. We use Gam-COVID-Vak, so side-effects might be different.
Was in a bad mood after the shot for reasons unrelated, so decided to go to bed earlier. I think I had some fever during that sleep judging by my sheets, but after waking up was feeling fine.
Also went without sleep for 26 hours straight after that, but that's most likely an overwork stress.

There was a lot of people there, so I really hope we can at least curb the spread of the virus, because I'm too tired of this pandemic. Or, more importantly, of all that stupidity, hypocrisy and *******ry that surfaced with it.

[Lacco]

There was a lot of people there, so I really hope we can at least curb the spread of the virus, because I'm too tired of this pandemic. Or, more importantly, of all that stupidity, hypocrisy and *******ry that surfaced with it.

True.

Had to stop reading news and unfriended about a third of my facebook friends (blocked temporarily another third) due to not wanting to get provoked into arguments about fake news, hoaxes, bulldohickey pseudoscientific solutions and politicking arggghholes.

I'm also tired of covid itself

[Rogar Demonblud]

The pandemic has made me very happy I walked away from social media several years ago.

[Keltest]

My sister and I both just set up appointments to get the vaccine. It is, i believe the pfeizer vaccine. 2 doses at the very least.