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Thread: unOrdinary

  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: unOrdinary

    They do have one of the better dynamics in the comic.

    Also, sleeping with socks is superior. I can position my blanket however I want without worrying about my feet getting cold.

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    Default Re: unOrdinary

    Fair enough. But unless I'm freezing for whatever reason I just can't stand wearing socks (or shoes. Best part about being home? No foot-prisons.)

    New comic
    Okay, why the flying pig did the last update get a "strong language" warning and this one didn't?

    Also, Arlo's reaction to John's typing. I feel with him.
    Doubly so if it turns out John is doing it on purpose.
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

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  3. - Top - End - #93
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    I'm with Kantaki on the foot-prison thing... can't stand to wear 'em if I don't absolutely have to (drives my wife crazy, since I'll just wander outside barefoot in the snow if I'm just grabbing something briefly... )

    Going to be somewhat curious as to what set of abilities John is rocking for this gig... if he snagged, say, invisibility from a certain little scumbag, he's going to be rather difficult for the nasty Spectres to deal with.

    ... and I've gotta say, I'm rather impressed John is coping even as well as he is- he's been repeatedly brutalized, treated as a second-class (or worse) citizen for most of his life, and had his mind violated so thoroughly I'm not even sure it's exactly brainwashing anymore. It's amazing he's as stable as he is.

    EDIT- Also, I'm weirdly amused that the magic U-Mart hat of invisibility is still working... maybe he doesn't need to steal invisibility from... Terrence(?).
    Last edited by TeChameleon; 2022-03-05 at 03:18 PM.
    Times being what they are, the stars aligning and the End of All Things barely registered as background noise.

    At a bit of a loss as to what to do next, and with bills to pay, a certain Elder Thing has taken up bartending.

    This is...

    The Last Call of Cthulhu

  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeChameleon View Post
    I'm with Kantaki on the foot-prison thing... can't stand to wear 'em if I don't absolutely have to (drives my wife crazy, since I'll just wander outside barefoot in the snow if I'm just grabbing something briefly... )

    Going to be somewhat curious as to what set of abilities John is rocking for this gig... if he snagged, say, invisibility from a certain little scumbag, he's going to be rather difficult for the nasty Spectres to deal with.

    ... and I've gotta say, I'm rather impressed John is coping even as well as he is- he's been repeatedly brutalized, treated as a second-class (or worse) citizen for most of his life, and had his mind violated so thoroughly I'm not even sure it's exactly brainwashing anymore. It's amazing he's as stable as he is.

    EDIT- Also, I'm weirdly amused that the magic U-Mart hat of invisibility is still working... maybe he doesn't need to steal invisibility from... Terrence(?).
    I still don't agree with the "oh poor John" stuff. He's been treated no worse than most other characters in the setting, and they all managed to not become psychopaths.

    I do agree that he's doing much better now. The comic is becoming more interesting to me again now that we're getting past the constant angst.

  5. - Top - End - #95
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    While I'll mostly agree that the other characters have had similar backgrounds to John, there is one glaring exception to the 'he's had it the same as them'- namely the intensive, government-sponsored brainwashing that brought out the 'helmet-hair' persona.

    John's got some problems- he appears to have some untreated mental illness, and he needs to learn to take responsibility for his mistakes without tumbling into a destructive spiral of self-pity and -loathing, but he's a child (adolescent, whatever) in a very, very sick society, and I can't really blame him for a lot of his screwed-up-ness.
    Times being what they are, the stars aligning and the End of All Things barely registered as background noise.

    At a bit of a loss as to what to do next, and with bills to pay, a certain Elder Thing has taken up bartending.

    This is...

    The Last Call of Cthulhu

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeChameleon View Post
    While I'll mostly agree that the other characters have had similar backgrounds to John, there is one glaring exception to the 'he's had it the same as them'- namely the intensive, government-sponsored brainwashing that brought out the 'helmet-hair' persona.

    John's got some problems- he appears to have some untreated mental illness, and he needs to learn to take responsibility for his mistakes without tumbling into a destructive spiral of self-pity and -loathing, but he's a child (adolescent, whatever) in a very, very sick society, and I can't really blame him for a lot of his screwed-up-ness.
    I mean, the "brainwashing" was just making him live through the suffering he inflicted on others. Yeah, it clearly messed him up and gave him issues, but it's also the only reason he stopped being a monster for a while. John became a monster all on his own well before any of that happened. Obviously the growth he's having now is much healthier than the brainwashing was, but he can hardly blame that for his problems when he was acting the exact same way before it happened.

  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I mean, the "brainwashing" was just making him live through the suffering he inflicted on others. Yeah, it clearly messed him up and gave him issues, but it's also the only reason he stopped being a monster for a while. John became a monster all on his own well before any of that happened. Obviously the growth he's having now is much healthier than the brainwashing was, but he can hardly blame that for his problems when he was acting the exact same way before it happened.
    I'd say the brainwashing was more "forced PTSD by way of forcefully reliving your bad actions while someone charms you to believe you're inherently a worthless sack of crap because of them over and over and over and over.....", which is utterly reprehensible, no matter who you'd use it on.

    And in this case, particularly reprehensible, because it was used on a freaking teenager.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taevyr View Post
    I'd say the brainwashing was more "forced PTSD by way of forcefully reliving your bad actions while someone charms you to believe you're inherently a worthless sack of crap because of them over and over and over and over.....", which is utterly reprehensible, no matter who you'd use it on.

    And in this case, particularly reprehensible, because it was used on a freaking teenager.
    Sure. I absolutely agree that it's a reprehensible, cruel, and unusual punishment that shouldn't be inflicted on a teenager. I just don't think you can use it as justification for John acting like a psycho when he was already a full blown psycho before it happened.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Sure. I absolutely agree that it's a reprehensible, cruel, and unusual punishment that shouldn't be inflicted on a teenager. I just don't think you can use it as justification for John acting like a psycho when he was already a full blown psycho before it happened.
    How's that hard to understand? He's like the poor guy that got suddenly rich, then wasted his newfound wealth on petty things.
    He's been bottling his range/pain since school, then used his power to seek vengeance, with predictable results. No matter who he hurt he couldn't ever get satiated, a tale as old as time.

    Plus, conditioning from Keon ensured he'd only use his powers in situations he's backed in a corner. In those situations, his temper takes over. Even his dad said so in last season.

  10. - Top - End - #100
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    There's also the fact that John's 'psycho' actions were entirely in line with his society's values; those in power in his society want children pointlessly beating on each other so that they come to believe that abusing those weaker than you is the only way to get what you want in life, apparently to maintain their own positions of prestige and power (I'm not sure if anybody in a position of real power has made an appearance in the comic, at least that I can recall, so their motives are largely speculation at this point). Nobody stepped in until John started to look like a threat to the status quo.

    Don't forget, the book that John's dad wrote (which, from what I remember, would be a pretty standard-issue superhero yarn in our world) was considered such a threat to their society simply because it portrayed someone strong protecting the weak that it was banned and John's dad has... I'm pretty sure an arrest warrant out for him, at the very least.

    Was John behaving badly? Heck yes.

    Was John behaving in a way that has sympathetic, relatable motives behind it, as a result of horrific, societally-enshrined child abuse, glorified bullying and mental trauma (and most likely some form(s) of mental illness)? Also heck yes.
    Times being what they are, the stars aligning and the End of All Things barely registered as background noise.

    At a bit of a loss as to what to do next, and with bills to pay, a certain Elder Thing has taken up bartending.

    This is...

    The Last Call of Cthulhu

  11. - Top - End - #101
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    That's all true, but it's not really backed up with what the author shows us in the story. Almost none of the characters in the setting actually act that way. The only one who does is Zeke, and he's treated as if he's trash by the narrative and other characters. The way the characters act is not consistent with what the author tells us about the setting. Honestly, the setting has never been very internally consistent. If it was truly "might makes right" like we're supposed to believe then John would have never been arrested, businesses wouldn't have security to prevent high tiers from acting out, principals wouldn't be stepping in to stop fights, etc. The setting has always seemed more like an excuse to let characters act out rather than something truly fleshed out or realistic.

    You can say "well, the way John acts is completely normal for the setting" but if that's not actually shown by any of the other characters acting that way then it rings hollow.

    Quote Originally Posted by -D- View Post
    How's that hard to understand? He's like the poor guy that got suddenly rich, then wasted his newfound wealth on petty things.
    He's been bottling his range/pain since school, then used his power to seek vengeance, with predictable results. No matter who he hurt he couldn't ever get satiated, a tale as old as time.

    Plus, conditioning from Keon ensured he'd only use his powers in situations he's backed in a corner. In those situations, his temper takes over. Even his dad said so in last season.
    Understanding why someone does something doesn't make it ok. I understand why lots of terrible people end up the way they do.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2022-03-08 at 11:42 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    If it was truly "might makes right" like we're supposed to believe then John would have never been arrested.
    Ofc he would, might makes right is a mentality, not strict guidelines. They aren't all Klingons. Being best assassin doesn't give you right to kill the local boss.

    In John's case, he would not back down when ordered by higher up. He was a powerful mad dog. So the best course of action is to defang him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    You can say "well, the way John acts is completely normal for the setting" but if that's not actually shown by any of the other characters acting that way then it rings hollow.
    None of the other characters had to discover their power as late as John did. And none of those that did, had such a potent one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Understanding why someone does something doesn't make it ok. I understand why lots of terrible people end up the way they do.
    John isn't that different from say Blyke.

    Isolate Blyke, beat him consistently every day for years, berate him for being weak. Then give him a huge power boost, reward him for being violent, and you would see a lot of bloodshed.

    Explanation: Blyke is a person that is fast to anger, and society suppressing him and rewarding him for violence is recipe for disaster. He would try to never be in position of weakness, i.e. trample everyone, and since violence is rewarded he would prefer it.

    Growing in ****ty condition, becoming ****ty is the expected outcome.
    Last edited by -D-; 2022-03-09 at 02:45 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    I agree that bad conditions can lead to bad people. I just don't think you can use it as an excuse. Also, John is a special case in other ways as well. He's been raised from a young age to believe that society is wrong about the whole "might makes right" thing. He's had hardships, but he's also had benefits no one else had. The concept of protecting the weak is apparently so alien in this society that a single book about it spawned copycat criminals and was banned by the government...and John lives with the guy who wrote that book.

    It's funny you'd pick Blyke as an example, because he's probably the best person out of the main cast. He regularly steps up to protect other people and do the right thing, even when society raised him to believe he shouldn't, and even when it causes harm to himself. Would he be the same as John if they had the same events happen to them? Maybe so, but Blyke would never get himself in that situation. When Blyke had the opportunity to grab more power, he chose to give it up and take a beating instead. He's basically the anti-John.
    Last edited by Anteros; 2022-03-09 at 02:56 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    I agree that bad conditions can lead to bad people. I just don't think you can use it as an excuse.
    Look, how much difference having one true friend (Sera) made. Yeah, he was a **** to her. But she didn't hate him or abandon him at a crucial moment.

    This is his redemption arc. Honestly, I feel bad for Spectre.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Also, John is a special case in other ways as well. He's been raised from a young age to believe that society is wrong about the whole "might makes right" thing.
    By a person that only knows how the Cripples feel. As much as I admire John's dad, he doesn't have the full perspective and can't rein in John.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    lives with the guy who wrote that book.
    He wrote that book to help John out of the stump he found himself after Keon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    It's funny you'd pick Blyke as an example, because he's probably the best person out of the main cast.
    That's a weird way to write Remi. Without Remi as a Moral Compass, Blyke would be a much worse person. Hell, he started vigilanting to help Remi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    When Blyke had the opportunity to grab more power, he chose to give it up and take a beating instead. He's basically the anti-John.
    You're forgetting John took a beating for half a year just to not have to use his power.
    Last edited by -D-; 2022-03-09 at 02:23 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    but he can hardly blame that for his problems when he was acting the exact same way before it happened.
    I found that part to be one of the weak spots of the plotting of that arc. The circumstances of John's first tailspin were so radically different from the circumstances of this one. He didn't know he had significant power then like he did now, he hadn't had the prior experience of (what he perceived as) betrayal by his close friends, he hadn't gone through the horrible "therapy", he was living with his father, etc. And his behavior and reasoning was still basically the same!

  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by -D- View Post

    That's a weird way to write Remi. Without Remi as a Moral Compass, Blyke would be a much worse person. Hell, he started vigilanting to help Remi.


    You're forgetting John took a beating for half a year just to not have to use his power.
    Remi got him involved, but when it's time to step up it's Blyke that does so. Protecting people at school, with the drug, being a vigilante, protecting John, and
    Spoiler: bonus comic spoilers
    Show
    now in the park.


    John taking a beating had no altruistic elements to it at all. He's perfectly willing to watch people pound his loved ones into the ground. He just couldn't get past his own ptsd enough to use his powers. John has not been a good person for the entire run of this comic. He's just now taking his first steps to becoming one.

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    Remi got him involved, but when it's time to step up it's Blyke that does so.
    Blyke is also a person to cause mayhem fighting over a cake, and one to abuse less powerful if they threaten his friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    John taking a beating had no altruistic elements to it at all. He's perfectly willing to watch people pound his loved ones into the ground. He just couldn't get past his own ptsd enough to use his powers.
    Of course, it did. He was trying to emulate his father (hence the hair gel). John tried to live as his father preached, this shows the limit of following Ordinary's advice. High Tiers (in general) don't want to share the cake.

    Plus, John was self-aware enough to know he would abuse it given chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thales View Post
    I found that part to be one of the weak spots of the plotting of that arc. The circumstances of John's first tailspin were so radically different from the circumstances of this one. He didn't know he had significant power then like he did now, he hadn't had the prior experience of (what he perceived as) betrayal by his close friends, he hadn't gone through the horrible "therapy", he was living with his father, etc. And his behavior and reasoning was still basically the same!
    The reason circumstances repeat is that basic formula is the same - one part society ****tiness and one part John being as volatile as nitroglycerin - in a jet engine.

    Why John went berserk the first time. He wanted revenge on the world that denied him so much. This alienated his friends, he thought his closest friend manipulated him from the start. He was alone and angry. And he lashed out at everyone.

    Why John went berserk the second time. He wanted to not repeat previous mistakes. However, playing his demon on repeat ensured it would happen again. He kept interperting innocent things as people manipulating him. He ended up alone and angry. This time Sera reached out to him.
    Last edited by -D-; 2022-03-11 at 06:00 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #108
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    New comic

    Wait, is Terrence seriously surprised Sera doesn't trust Spectre?
    Really?
    And "We only don't restore your powers permanently because we can't" is entirely believable, sure.
    As if you'd say anything else.

    On the other hand her sister's part of Spectre, so it might actually be true. Lying about this'd just needlessly antagonise two people with good powers, one of which having inside knowledge about your group.

    Also, John is great here. Sera definitely needed that distraction. Arlo's annoyance i a small price to pay.
    Sera on the other hand?
    Well done on ruining John's perfect disguise.
    And it was working so well...
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

    Ronkong Coma "the way of the bookhunter" III Catacombium
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  19. - Top - End - #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
    That's all true, but it's not really backed up with what the author shows us in the story. Almost none of the characters in the setting actually act that way. The only one who does is Zeke, and he's treated as if he's trash by the narrative and other characters. The way the characters act is not consistent with what the author tells us about the setting. Honestly, the setting has never been very internally consistent. If it was truly "might makes right" like we're supposed to believe then John would have never been arrested, businesses wouldn't have security to prevent high tiers from acting out, principals wouldn't be stepping in to stop fights, etc. The setting has always seemed more like an excuse to let characters act out rather than something truly fleshed out or realistic.

    You can say "well, the way John acts is completely normal for the setting" but if that's not actually shown by any of the other characters acting that way then it rings hollow.



    Understanding why someone does something doesn't make it ok. I understand why lots of terrible people end up the way they do.
    The comic stated that kids who discover powers late like John tend to turn out like him.

    It's a systematic side effect of the society they all live in. Which is why I want the "outside of Wellston" plot to kick in so we can stop focusing on who is wrong or right between John and the royals since it's obviously the system is the big culprit here.
    Last edited by Ninja Dragon; 2022-03-20 at 10:02 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    Default Re: unOrdinary

    New comic

    Ah, nothing better for reconciliation than beating the stuffing outta a bunch of jerks who have it coming.

    These two idiots are gonna fight each other as much as those hooligans, won't they?

    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

    Ronkong Coma "the way of the bookhunter" III Catacombium
    (Walter Moers "Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher")



  21. - Top - End - #111
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    Hah. John's 'not so different' realization was summed up in just one brief facial expression... well, 'not so different', or 'huh, we have something important in common', at least.

    And the U-Mart hat seems to retain its powers- even people who have good reason to recognize John in a hurry don't twig to it being him until he's quite close
    Times being what they are, the stars aligning and the End of All Things barely registered as background noise.

    At a bit of a loss as to what to do next, and with bills to pay, a certain Elder Thing has taken up bartending.

    This is...

    The Last Call of Cthulhu

  22. - Top - End - #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    These two idiots are gonna fight each other as much as those hooligans, won't they?
    Why would they? They literally had the same thought.

    Spoiler: Chapter 252
    Show
    You will be surprised.

    Shadow King John indeed.

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    I was thinking more "get into each other's way" and less "actively trying to kill each other".

    Mind you, I think (hope) they can work together, however reluctantly, but it wouldn't surprise me if they don't work together well.
    Blyke fighting the bullies while John fights them too instead of Blyke and John fighting the bullies.
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

    Ronkong Coma "the way of the bookhunter" III Catacombium
    (Walter Moers "Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher")



  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kantaki View Post
    I was thinking more "get into each other's way" and less "actively trying to kill each other".

    Mind you, I think (hope) they can work together, however reluctantly, but it wouldn't surprise me if they don't work together well.
    Blyke fighting the bullies while John fights them too instead of Blyke and John fighting the bullies.
    For posterity.
    Spoiler: 252
    Show
    Actually writer took the third option.

    Blyke fights them. Then John fights them. Then Arlo "fights" them.
    Last edited by -D-; 2022-03-28 at 07:12 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by -D- View Post
    For posterity.
    Spoiler: 252
    Show
    Actually writer took the third option.

    Blyke fights them. Then John fights them. Then Arlo "fights" them.
    Spoiler
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    Well...more like Blyke gets cheap shotted so John backs him up, then predictably loses his **** and Arlo shuts everything down like usual.

  26. - Top - End - #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anteros View Post
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    Well...more like Blyke gets cheap shotted so John backs him up, then predictably loses his **** and Arlo shuts everything down like usual.
    Spoiler
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    It's neither John fights Blyke, nor a Blyke + John teamup, is my point.

    John went for tactical/moral support, and other guys were *******s.

    Anyway we see what happens if you don't properly pummel your attacker. They try to cheap shot you.

  27. - Top - End - #117
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    New comic

    Okay, so we're still working on the "paralysing flashbacks" thing. Sorry Blyke.

    On the plus side the first power John grabbed was the healing one.
    Progress.

    Now all he needs is not to murder those clowns.
    Or let them beat up him for that matter.
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

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  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Yeeeeah... their society has grabbed on to the whole 'strongest will rule' thing without picking up on the corollary of 'there's always a bigger fish'. Unfortunately for John, the story has cast him in the role of said bigger fish more often than not, and he's having to grow into it. Which isn't gonna be easy after the amount of trauma that's been dumped on his already-unstable nature. But at the same time, he's doing his best and he wants to help people, which goes a long way.
    Times being what they are, the stars aligning and the End of All Things barely registered as background noise.

    At a bit of a loss as to what to do next, and with bills to pay, a certain Elder Thing has taken up bartending.

    This is...

    The Last Call of Cthulhu

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    New comic

    Are you serious?
    Trying to backstab the guy who just got stopped from outright mulching you?
    There are less painful ways to commit suicide.

    So those clows not only have no honour but also no brains. See also dismissing two (technically) royals from the school known for its power houses because their "hierarchy is in shambles".
    I mean, it's not wrong exactly, but it doesn't mean they're somehow giving those titles out to low-rankers.

    Arlo: I should've waited a bit before shielding those morons...
    "If it lives it can be killed.
    If it is dead it can be eaten."

    Ronkong Coma "the way of the bookhunter" III Catacombium
    (Walter Moers "Die Stadt der träumenden Bücher")



  30. - Top - End - #120
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2007

    Default Re: unOrdinary

    The last thing John needs is to go back to torturing people who can't stand up to him, even if they do deserve it in this instance. Arlo did the right thing for everyone involved by shutting it all down.

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