How to make a Gunbreaker from FFXIV in 5E?

[jaappleton]

I've been dabbling in Final Fantasy XIV, and I've fallen in love with the artwork of the character Thancred as a Gunbreaker. Its just... Magical to me.

Unfortunately, I'm not quite high enough level yet to actually BE a Gunbreaker yet. So while I very much love the idea, I'm not entirely positive of the mechanics.

I'm aware someone took the time to convert all of FFXIV into 5E content, there's a whole portfolio out there of their work. And while commendable, and overall fairly good considering the endeavor, my table only uses D&D Beyond, so I can't utilize that.

So, what class and build would you utilize here to capture the feeling of it? Even more of an issue is that my table is only 5th level, but all 5E content (UA included, but must use the latest version) is on the table with all Tasha's optional content.

[Warder]

Honestly, there's no good class or combination of classes to represent the gunbreaker. Many of the FFXIV classes don't translate well to any existing classes in D&D, and I'd say Gunbreaker is the trickiest one - it's a tank class that has a combination of melee sword slashes and ranged gun attacks, mobility by jumping around and a very special mechanic tied to the number of shells you have loaded into your gunblade. There's simply nothing like it in 5e, and even though FF has its roots in D&D it has diverted into its own brand of fantasy decades ago.

I'd recommend going with some kind of Fighter and asking your DM for a special weapon that lets you do both melee and ranged attacks, that's my best recommendation.

[LudicSavant]

I've been dabbling in Final Fantasy XIV, and I've fallen in love with the artwork of the character Thancred as a Gunbreaker. Its just... Magical to me.

Unfortunately, I'm not quite high enough level yet to actually BE a Gunbreaker yet. So while I very much love the idea, I'm not entirely positive of the mechanics.

I'm aware someone took the time to convert all of FFXIV into 5E content, there's a whole portfolio out there of their work. And while commendable, and overall fairly good considering the endeavor, my table only uses D&D Beyond, so I can't utilize that.

So, what class and build would you utilize here to capture the feeling of it? Even more of an issue is that my table is only 5th level, but all 5E content (UA included, but must use the latest version) is on the table with all Tasha's optional content.

Level 80 White Mage here.

Haven't tried out the GNB yet, though.

[Warder]

Level 80 White Mage here.

Haven't tried out the GNB yet, though.

I played SAM and DNC myself, I used to love that game but in-game drama killed it for me. :(

[jaappleton]

I'm curious as to the prospect of utilizing Warlock or Paladin.

Both can Smite. Paladin with Divine, Warlock with Eldritch. Unfortunately, from an optimization standpoint, its not really worth using Eldritch Smite when compared to other spells that get access to most of the time. But its an option. Warlock gets Eldritch Blast, if I wanted to flavor that as a gunshot. Bladepact gets multiple attacks, like Paladin.

Paladin is undoubtedly the more tanky of the two, for sure. Ranged problem can be solved by taking Magic Initiate or the new fighting style for Cleric cantrips.

If the ranged abilities are overall considered a minor part of the Gunbreaker, I could forgo them to focus on other more prominent aspects of the job.

[Unoriginal]

I've been dabbling in Final Fantasy XIV, and I've fallen in love with the artwork of the character Thancred as a Gunbreaker. Its just... Magical to me.

Unfortunately, I'm not quite high enough level yet to actually BE a Gunbreaker yet. So while I very much love the idea, I'm not entirely positive of the mechanics.

I'm aware someone took the time to convert all of FFXIV into 5E content, there's a whole portfolio out there of their work. And while commendable, and overall fairly good considering the endeavor, my table only uses D&D Beyond, so I can't utilize that.

So, what class and build would you utilize here to capture the feeling of it? Even more of an issue is that my table is only 5th level, but all 5E content (UA included, but must use the latest version) is on the table with all Tasha's optional content.

DEX Eldritch Knight with the Gunner feat?

[Amnestic]

You'd need some homebrew in order to get an authentic gunblade, but we can adjust. Gunbreakers weave slashes with the blade and shots with the gun part depending on the attack.

They're a tank class, but they're not running around in plate (as standard) like (ff14) paladins, warriors or dark knights, so we're probably looking at medium armour.

They have a few spelly abilities and defensive abilties, so nothing purely mundane like a (D&D) fighter.

Pact of the Blade Warlock with Improved Pact of the Blade (XGtE) lets you use your pact weapon as a spellcasting focus. Refluff your spells as magical shells being fired from your 'gunblade', you're good to go. After that it's just finding armour. Hexblade obviously works, but you may want to consider Celestial (Gunbreakers can cast Regen on allies - BA heal works for that) and then MCing elsewhere. Multiclassing out might hit you a little bit since the pact only works for delivering warlock spells, you'd need a separate focus/component pouch for non-warlock spells though. Then again, gunbreakers don't use shields, so you should always have one hand free for touching your secondary arcane focus pulling another magical bullet from your pouch.

A paladin dip can grab you Compelled Duel for 'taunting' purposes, along with the desired medium armour if you're skipping hexblade. I guess part of it depends on what sorta level you're playing?

I don't think I'd look at any of the artificer options, none of them feel right.

(80 WHM/SAM representing)

[Warder]

I'm curious as to the prospect of utilizing Warlock or Paladin.

Both can Smite. Paladin with Divine, Warlock with Eldritch. Unfortunately, from an optimization standpoint, its not really worth using Eldritch Smite when compared to other spells that get access to most of the time. But its an option. Warlock gets Eldritch Blast, if I wanted to flavor that as a gunshot. Bladepact gets multiple attacks, like Paladin.

Paladin is undoubtedly the more tanky of the two, for sure. Ranged problem can be solved by taking Magic Initiate or the new fighting style for Cleric cantrips.

If the ranged abilities are overall considered a minor part of the Gunbreaker, I could forgo them to focus on other more prominent aspects of the job.

Hmm. That's waaaaaay more reflavoring than I'm personally comfortable with, but if you and your DM are okay with it you can probably make just about anything work. I still think the least intrusive way would be to ask for a custom longsword/greatsword that had a ranged attack, so you'd have more freedom in your class choices. Maybe something like 1d10, loading, ammunition, 30/120.

[jaappleton]

You'd need some homebrew in order to get an authentic gunblade, but we can adjust. Gunbreakers weave slashes with the blade and shots with the gun part depending on the attack.

They're a tank class, but they're not running around in plate (as standard) like (ff14) paladins, warriors or dark knights, so we're probably looking at medium armour.

They have a few spelly abilities and defensive abilties, so nothing purely mundane like a (D&D) fighter.

Pact of the Blade Warlock with Improved Pact of the Blade (XGtE) lets you use your pact weapon as a spellcasting focus. Refluff your spells as magical shells being fired from your 'gunblade', you're good to go. After that it's just finding armour. Hexblade obviously works, but you may want to consider Celestial (Gunbreakers can cast Regen on allies - BA heal works for that) and then MCing elsewhere. Multiclassing out might hit you a little bit since the pact only works for delivering warlock spells, you'd need a separate focus/component pouch for non-warlock spells though. Then again, gunbreakers don't use shields, so you should always have one hand free for touching your secondary arcane focus pulling another magical bullet from your pouch.

A paladin dip can grab you Compelled Duel for 'taunting' purposes, along with the desired medium armour if you're skipping hexblade. I guess part of it depends on what sorta level you're playing?

I don't think I'd look at any of the artificer options, none of them feel right.

(80 WHM/SAM representing)

Some solid ideas here. I like the Celestial angle.

I noticed the comment about Artificer. What about Artillerist? Yes, only one attack, which is a bummer. But Booming Blade gets +1d8 extra at level 5 from an Artillerist, doesn’t it? And Force Ballista can be the gunshot, which would actually knock the enemy back 5ft and thus BB’s rider would be triggered when they move back into my range.

Hm. Maybe a solid strategy but likely not the best way to represent Gunbreaker. Though if any class could thematically create a Gunblade, it’s likely Artificer.

[Amnestic]

I noticed the comment about Artificer. What about Artillerist? Yes, only one attack, which is a bummer. But Booming Blade gets +1d8 extra at level 5 from an Artillerist, doesn’t it?

That works if your arcane firearm is a quarterstaff (rods and wands aren't 'melee weapons that cost 1sp' as standard I don't think?) but staffs aren't blades. If you can get your DM to agree to letting your arcane firearm quarterstaff do slashing damage instead of bludgeoning, that would work.

[jaappleton]

That works if your arcane firearm is a quarterstaff (rods and wands aren't 'melee weapons that cost 1sp' as standard I don't think?) but staffs aren't blades. If you can get your DM to agree to letting your arcane firearm quarterstaff do slashing damage instead of bludgeoning, that would work.

I'm nearly positive I can get my DM to go with it, he's very open to bending rules to help players fulfill concepts they want.

My concern is that while its a good combo, and is a decent way to fulfill the concept, it does almost nothing to fulfill the role of the Gunbreaker as a tank.

[Vogie]

it's a tank class that has a combination of melee sword slashes and ranged gun attacks, mobility by jumping around and a very special mechanic tied to the number of shells you have loaded into your gunblade.

While I don't know FFXIV, I do know D&D, and you can pull something like this off.

I'd suggest Paladin 5 / Warlock 3 / Sorcerer X

Before anyone screams about Sorlockadin cheese, the way this would work is through self-restricting your mechanics of play. It comes online at level 6, with Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 3 / Warlock 1

Essentially, you solely use your spell slots to act as "ammunition" - Smites consume spellslots, and then you also consume both spell slots and sorcery points to fire off Quickened Eldritch Blasts as a bonus action. You will essentially ignore your spells known, unless they contain the word "smite". They are not spell slots, they are Eldritch Ammunition for your gunblade.

You choose the weapon you choose as your "gunblade", and make it your pact weapon, allowing you to use it as the focus to fire off your eldritch ammunition. You don't go full tank - you use either medium or light armor, or use the Armor of Shadows invocation to have the unarmored look. While you could go strength based and do somthing like a PAM Halberd paladin... Myself, I'd suggest requesting your DM allow you to use the Double-bladed Scimitar, allowing you to have a single weapon with the feel of dual wielding.


Alternatively, You could create a combination of Strength PAM Artillerist Artificer 5 with the Gunner feat with 6+ levels in Tasha's Bladesinger wizard. It's not as good, because you can't use that above-mentioned "ammunition" self-imposed mechanic, but it could theoretically work.

[Amnestic]

I'm nearly positive I can get my DM to go with it, he's very open to bending rules to help players fulfill concepts they want.

My concern is that while its a good combo, and is a decent way to fulfill the concept, it does almost nothing to fulfill the role of the Gunbreaker as a tank.

You're aiming to get people to hit you instead of others. BB is a good start with that. If you're gonna be focusing on BBing, you don't really need extra attack, so taking 3 levels of fighter to grab Cavalier (for mark), a fighting style, action surge, etc. might work? Wouldn't make you any more MAD* than you already are, like paladin compelled duel might. Warcaster and/or Sentinel sprinkled in for good measure.

Artillerist 5/Cavalier 3/More artillerist?

*It's a little mad. CON for health, strength for hitting stuff, 14 Dex for AC, int for spells and stuff.

[jaappleton]

So it turns out my friend mains GNB. I asked him to narrow down the three main aspects of GNB, so that I can help nail down what I should be focusing on (since I haven’t been able to play it myself). This was his response:

1. Damage mitigation for myself and the party

2. Nova damage

3. Gunbreaker is apparently capable of doing a little healing by casting Regenerate, which was news to me.

So, this brings me to the following:

A) Damage mitigation, to me, can mean a number of things. Saving throw bonus to allies? Impose DisAdv on enemy attack rolls? The Intercession combat style?

B) Nova. Smite? Action Surge? Eldritch Smite? Something like Undead Patron’s transformation which deals +1d8 on every attack? Five levels of Blood Hunter to do +1d6 on every strike (is that enough of a Nova?)

C) A little bit of healing. Celestial Warlocks bonus healing? Lay on Hands? Something that grants Temp HP?

With these considerations (assuming my friend is correct about the main factors of GNB) I’m at a bit of a toss up.

Out of the box, Psi Warrior actually fits quite well, using each Psi Die as a munition. At later levels, the whole telekinesis thing is out of place, but the early level stuff handles it pretty well I think. I have rolled very nice stats to Inspiring Leader is a consideration for the healing aspect.

Paladin fits quite well, too. Not positive about what Oath, maybe Watchers or Devotion. Just the base class gives pretty much everything the Gunbreaker does, just has to be reflavored without needing a specific subclass. But if I’m being honest, I think I like the Fighter more because IMO it has less to be reflavored. Does that make sense?

Warlock.... Isn’t bad overall. I think Celestial is a decent way to go. Undead Patron (UA) gets a transformation that boosts damage by a lot starting at 6th level. It gets full casting to try to cover some bases, but like Paladin needs a lot of reflavoring and I wouldn’t even know where to begin with that Patron to go with. Plus, only a d8 HD and it’d be very feat starved to get working, I think.

Artificer.... Honestly, I think Battlesmith does a pretty solid job but the Steel Defender doesn’t fit whatsoever. The Armorer gets an amazing ability with Thunder Gauntlets, as far as being a tank goes. I’m fairly certain I can get that reflavored to a longsword for looks, and Thunder damage even still makes sense if you consider it being used in conjunction with pulling the trigger. But again the d8 HD, and no real Nova ability to speak of (Unless I’m missing something).

[clash]

Everyone else has mentioned good class suggestions and I have nothing to add to that. My suggestion is for the gunblade.

Pick up crossbow expert and a hand crossbow and theme it as a gunblade. Paladin smite spells and warlock smite both work with ranged weapons. You can "make melee attacks with it" aka fire into melee without disadvantage and make ranged attacks with it and you can make a attack with it as a bonus action when you attack with it.

[Spore]

You cannot carbon copy an MMO class meant for real time combat as well as following the trinity of tank, healer and damage dealer into a turn based RPG where tanks don't exist, mainly just resilient bruisers. In this vein, a gunbreaker feels either like a Bladesinging Wizard (with a shortsword as its arcane focus) or a Dex-focussed Eldritch Knight (which needs a shield, so maybe your DM can refluff sword and board to a gunblade of sorts).

I am in favor of the bladesinger. Cartridges are your spell slots:
Attack combos are just refluffed basic attacks
Firebolt (Lightning Shot)
Mirror Image (Camouflage)
Blur (Nebula)
Demon Slaughter (Sword Burst)
Sonic Break (Melf's Acid Arrow but not really)
Heart of Stone (Stoneskin, but not for the group)
Fated Circle (I could swear Sunburst was the self-centered Fireball in 5e too)


The hardest ability so get are Aurora (healing is basically just with a dip or Magic Initiate), Superbolide (immunity never goes well in P&P, let alone with this horrible a down side) and some abilities are really just approximations.

Artificer is another nice idea.

[BerzerkerUnit]

What level you starting? Here's a 3 and 10 level.

3rd Artificer Armorer
Thunder Guantlet from Guardian, and scimitar in off hand and healing word.

10 Artificer 3, Bladesinger 6, warlock 1, Slasher or Crossbow Master feat
You can make 4 attacks per round: 1 guantlet, 2 eldritch blasts, 1 scimitar.

At 11th I'd take Warlock 2 with agonizing blast and lance of lethargy or repelling blast then go guardian or Wizard the rest of the way.

[jaappleton]

I have pretty much thrown in the towel finding something to thoroughly represent the Gunbreaker using existing materials. While lots of things work OK with some reflavoring, nothing really captures it’s essence.

So I found a Homebrew subclass for the Fighter that someone made on r/UnearthedArcana (their homebrew community).

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/4vSXUMqVO

Over there, it’s gotten a good amount of attention and feedback and by their standards, considered fairly balanced.

Just curious about the Playgrounds thoughts before I send it to my DM to ask for permission.

[ZRN]

I have pretty much thrown in the towel finding something to thoroughly represent the Gunbreaker using existing materials. While lots of things work OK with some reflavoring, nothing really captures it’s essence.

So I found a Homebrew subclass for the Fighter that someone made on r/UnearthedArcana (their homebrew community).

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/4vSXUMqVO

Over there, it’s gotten a good amount of attention and feedback and by their standards, considered fairly balanced.

Just curious about the Playgrounds thoughts before I send it to my DM to ask for permission.

It looks like each Cartridge is about as powerful as a battlemaster superiority die, but you get way more of them - I'd cut it down to the same rate as battlemasters. (Or alternately: you get double prof bonus max cartridges and only restore like 1-4 when you take a short rest, closer to the Psi Warrior's dice.)

[jaappleton]

It looks like each Cartridge is about as powerful as a battlemaster superiority die, but you get way more of them - I'd cut it down to the same rate as battlemasters. (Or alternately: you get double prof bonus max cartridges and only restore like 1-4 when you take a short rest, closer to the Psi Warrior's dice.)

It was designed with the Battle Master in mind, as a base. But the author wanted to make it slightly more unique, obviously to capture the feeling of the Gunbreaker.

You get more dice, but they scale more slowly (no d8 until 10th level, for example), and it actually costs an attack to ‘reload’ them into your weapon.

[jas61292]

Hey. Level 80 Gunbreaker here (well, really level 80 everything, but Gunbreaker is my main). As has been previously mentioned, trying to exactly translate something like the Gunbreaker to 5e is really difficult as, for all its unique traits, the most defining thing about any tank class is ultimately its role, and 5e really just does not have support for that kind of agro mechanics. That being said, what separates the Gunbreaker from the other tank classes for me personally is that in many ways it feels more like a DPS. You still obviously have all the stuff that innately comes with being a tank, but when it comes to your basic damage dealing, Gunbreaker feels good because of its offensive power. More specifically how its power just feels like a part of what it always does, and not some rare thing you build up to. I'm not a high end raider or anything, so I don't actually know which tank is the strongest in terms of raw power, but having your "burst" power in a combo of attacks you get to do every 30 seconds is more fun to me than having so much of that power packed into a single move you just use over and over. Don't get me wrong, spamming Fell Cleave as a Warrior has its own satisfaction, but what makes the Gunbreaker more enjoyable for me is that I feel like I'm actually doing something for that power, and not just hitting the same button over and over until a buff wears off.

So with that said, to best capture that feeling, I would probably want something that is more inspired by the battlemaster, where you weave together options that do different things and together combine for power, as opposed to something more like the paladin who gets DPS by just whacking with plain old smites over and over.

The linked homebrew subclass you posted actually looks like it would do a pretty decent job of this. While it somewhat disappoints me that the only reference to the only reference to the Gnashing Fang combo is with the 18th level Continuation, I understand that ultimately, that combo, while a big part of the feel of the class in the MMO, really just translates to "super flurry of blows with a sword" and that would not only have balance issues, but also wouldn't really provide the same feel anyways. Beyond that, it honestly does a pretty decent job capturing all the other core abilities of the class. Can't really comment yet on the balance. I feel like this would take a lot of playtesting to figure out the right balance point for the number of cartridges and how to recharge them and reload them. But yeah, in general, the idea of a class that is "battlemaster-like" but with more uses, tempered by a recharge mechanic, and a slightly lower damage point, feels like the right approach.

[ZRN]

It was designed with the Battle Master in mind, as a base. But the author wanted to make it slightly more unique, obviously to capture the feeling of the Gunbreaker.

You get more dice, but they scale more slowly (no d8 until 10th level, for example), and it actually costs an attack to ‘reload’ them into your weapon.

I mean, you have to reload when you spend six dice, which is all a battle master ever gets, right?

I haven’t played it or anything, but just at first glance I’d definitely say it’s overpowered specifically in its resource mechanic. Honestly I’d say just reduce the number of cartridges regained on a short rest and you’re most of the way there. Otherwise it looks like a pretty fun subclass - exactly the kind of thing home brew is great for. Dynamic and relatively balanced with a very specific flavor.

[Frankbit]

How to make a Gunbreaker from {Scrubbed} in 5E?

Scholar:

Blessing of Nym is way too strong. We balanced it by making it aetherflow clusters/spell level (i.e. level 3 spell costs 3 clusters)

Consider looking at their spell list again, not just for typos but other spell options to add/remove. I'm looking through the D&D spell list and theres a lot of spells that would work for Scholar that aren't on any job, and a few that don't really make sense on a scholar.

Dark Knight:

The "Well of Darkness" needs to be looked at again, we're ending fights and days with the DRK using maybe one point. He went Ebony Champion.

WoD has no use before level 3, it needs some kind of dump ability to just spend it on.

Monk:

It may be an issue with how Flurry of Blows is, but Greased Lightning is honestly useless. In the ~25 times that we've tried to use it, it has worked successfully 0 times. Might just be an issue with monk in general though.

[truemane]

Metamagic Mod: Thread Necromancy