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2021-01-09, 02:35 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
I recently was reviewing some classes and realized that it could be possible to be victorious over an enemy through certain Class Abilities, which brings me to the main question...
What abilities through a class or a feat allow you to overcome you opponent without combat attacks (even special attacks) or through spells (like dominate)?
As an examples,
Emissary of Barachiel has the Calling/Conversion ability that with the right build can be interesting to make sure all you come across would become Good.
Evangelist have the Convert the Unfaithful ability which is similar to the Emissary, but more direct to a certain alignment.
Many Classes receive Turning Undead.
What others do you know?
Ability List:
3e/3.5e
- Emissary of Barachiel - Calling/Conversion ability
- Evangelist have the Convert the Unfaithful ability
- Turn Undead ability
- Druid/Ranger - Wild Empathy ability
- Diplomacy
- Bluff with Glibness
D20
- Thief - Capstone class ability for Bluff
- Ruthless Agent Investigator - 11th Level Geas Ability (Pathfinder)
Last edited by MR_Anderson; 2021-01-19 at 08:03 PM.
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2021-01-09, 03:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2014
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- Sub-Prime Material Plane
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Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
Diplomacy optimization is the classic one. On that note, Wild Empathy
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2021-01-09, 01:57 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2005
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- Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
The capstone class ability of a thief in Iron Heroes lets you automatically succeed on a bluff check for one round, which is enough to get the enemy to hand you a victory if you are creative enough and the circumstances allow. It basically is how Bugs Bunny messes with most of his opponents.
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2021-01-09, 07:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
Diplomacy is actually how I found Emissary & Evangelist, I really like the skill, and it was the reason I started this thread to find abilities that would allow a similar effect to that skill.
I had a character that had an unreasonably high Diplomacy and the DM didn’t like it, which didn’t bother me, but the other players got tired of less combat encounters, so I saved it for times really needed to save the party, or when it served to further the adventure. Basically he was a character that couldn’t be touched, and could talk his way out of anything that might be able to kill him. He also wasn’t really an offensive out put so the DM kind of overlooked his invincibility.
This is funny, thank you for posting.
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2021-01-09, 07:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2014
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- Sub-Prime Material Plane
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Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
If you like the Evangelist ability, also note:
* It is not mind-affecting.
* It is not language-dependent; you may use pantomimes.
* Although there are provisions for what happens when the duration ends, there is actually no listed duration, so it technically lasts forever.
It is a very poorly-worded ability, to be sure, that ends up inordinately more powerful if your DM doesn't nerf it with a house rule.
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2021-01-09, 07:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2014
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- California
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Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
Sounds like you're looking for the Cards Over Swords feat, which allows you to resolve combats by challenging your enemies to a card game.
Rhymes with "Protracted."
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2021-01-10, 03:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2015
Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
Stealth, I suppose? If they never know you're there, you can get the loot/access without ever being detected and grab XP at the same time.
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2021-01-13, 02:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2010
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2021-01-13, 05:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
Vow of Peace (feat)
+
Apostle of Peace (prc)Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
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Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
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2021-01-13, 05:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2016
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- Schwäbisch Hall
Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
The glibness spell ain't an auto-success on a bluff check, but comes very close.
"Ash" avatar by linklele - thank you again!
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2021-01-13, 05:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2016
Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
For Pathfinder, there's the bonkers 11th level ability of the Ruthless Agent Investigator that lets you Geas somebody once per day as a Full Round action.
Last edited by Rynjin; 2021-01-13 at 05:39 AM.
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2021-01-13, 10:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
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Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
Thrallherd can enslave you if you happen to be susceptible to his ability to enthrall random people. Also, hostages.
Doesn't always work, however.Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2021-01-13 at 10:37 AM.
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
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2021-01-19, 07:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2019
Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
I can not find this.
I guess, but then there is always simple detection spells, then non detection counters. Just because there are so many ways to stealth and so many ways to prevent it, I will leave it off the list, unless someone can provide a detailed thread discussing this topic, then I will link it.
Cards Over Swords feat, was unable to be found by my searches, can you help?
I don’t see how this works and is a victory condition, can you explain please?
I really like Glibness, and have wanted to base a character around it.
Wasn’t looking for Pathfinder myself, but I will track it. I will assume you are correct on this, as I do not know pathfinder.
This is a non targeting ability, and while I believe that it could absolutely be used for victory, the thralls would have the fight. As a DM, I would never allow someone to gain control of a key enemy or an enemy to take a player in this way.
Your point is absolutely valid, and while I thank you very much for bringing this idea I don’t think it should be on the list, unless you can give me a reason I am missing how to abuse this for non-combat victory.
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2021-01-19, 08:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
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Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
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2021-01-19, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Terra Australis
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Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
It was on the WotC website as a Web Enhancmenet for Three Dragon Ante.
More info here: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthre...web-supplement
And here's my winning IC entry that focused on it: https://forums.giantitp.com/showsing...9&postcount=61My winning competition entries: Kinvig Arrumskor | The Great Pumpkinhead | Wynfrith d'Acker
Torn-City - Massively multiplayer online browser based crime RPG
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2021-01-19, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2016
Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
Any feat or race that lets you select charm person as a spell-like ability.
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2021-01-19, 08:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2014
Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
Swashbuckler 4 dead level: seduce to learn secret
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2021-01-20, 12:29 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
@MR_Andersom
Explanation:
Vow of Peace:
1. You are Constantly affected by a Calm Emotion aura.
2. Manufactured Weapon you try to attack you must make a save roll first or shatter on your skin, leaving no effect.
Apostle of Peace:
Requires the Vow of Peace feat, so the effects are included in this prc.
At lvl 2 an AoP gets Pacifying Touch. At will ability, no save nor SR, touch a creature to apply a similar effect to calm emotions (similar is not the same, and as such stacks with the aura).
You clear all desire to fight. What else you can want to win without fighting.Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
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2021-01-20, 12:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
Last edited by MaxiDuRaritry; 2021-01-20 at 12:33 AM.
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
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2021-01-20, 01:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
Nope you don't:
Originally Posted by Calm Emotions
edit: you can still outplay an apostle of peace (depends on his build, but we only assume a generic build here). Don't get in range and attack with a spell from distance.
Imho it is still a good tool for builds who want to prevent combat as much as they can.Last edited by Gruftzwerg; 2021-01-20 at 01:05 AM.
Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
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2021-01-20, 01:07 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Gender
Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
⚣ Tanuki in the Playground. ⚣
-
2021-01-20, 03:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: Abusing Abilities for Non-Combat Victory
Last edited by Gruftzwerg; 2021-01-20 at 03:52 AM.
Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)