Combat wheelchairs

[Draconi Redfir]

So far i think my biggest critique would be the magical self-locomotion at level 1. and even then I'm torn on it.

on the one hand, I feel like both mechanically and flavor-wise, it would be more interesting to have a manual-powered chair for the first five-ish levels, with a magical or mechanical upgrade being available at a reasonable cost later on, both having their own strengths and weaknesses. Perhaps adding an engine controllable via joystick would be safe in anti-magic zones and allow you to go faster and over more varied terrain, but it would make some background noise, causing a penalty to stealth. Meanwhile a magical method could be more reliable, perhaps mentally-controlled or with the "go this way and keep going this way" option it has now, it's quiet, and it doesn't need to be refueled. The downside is that the chair would completely shut down in anti-magic zones, possibly even locking up manual movement. and it's slower overall, and has more difficulty travelling over varied terrain as it's speed is a constant rather then adjustable.

On the other hand, this would pretty heavily limit the combat options in those early levels with just manual-power. It wouldn't be too bad i don't think, you'd just need at least one hand free to move the wheels which could probably be built capable of sharing an Axel so spinning one also spins the other. This would suck if you wanted to duel-wield or two-hand a weapon, but ranged weapons and one-handed weapons would all still be completely viable, maybe morso the ranged options then the melee ones. Using the chair itself as a weapon and keeping your hands free would still be perfectly fine though.

maybe i'm just one of those people who prefers the mechanical over the magical, idk. Guess i also can't really think of very many magical items (no matter how weak) someone would start the game with at level 1.

[EggKookoo]

3. But X player who isn't disabled just wants it to abuse the rules

Sure, a bad player is gonna be a bad player. See why they want to use this. If it's "I just wanna get some free benefits to improve my stats" feel free as a DM to say no.

There's an assumption here that an optimizer is a "bad" player.

[Wraith]

Like most people in the thread have said, the concept of the D&D Combat Wheelchair is excellent. It's inclusive and allows marginalised people to feel like there's a place for them within the game that doesn't have to be as far removed and abstract as "pretend to be a Winged Elf Wizard", and it does so without being patronising and giving such people "permission" to come and play.
The rules as presented are an advertisement - "stuff that lets you be you is already here, please come an experience it with us" and that is wonderful. More please.

Also like most people have said in this thread, the specific Combat Wheelchair as linked to in the OP is not very good, mechanically. It's a pretty overpowered homebrew item that highlights a very important issue, but then 'solves' disability in a way that makes it invisible, or worse, presents the narrative that disabled people get all the cool stuff and so its in some way a privilege to be disabled.

I don't think that D&D needs comprehensive rules for a Combat Wheelchair any more than it needs rules for an Ioun Stone of Hearing or a White Stick +1. All that happens to rules is that they get exploited and/or argued over, and even their original intent is obscured by poor or malicious interpretation, and then the conversation becomes more about the controversy than it does the game or the character.

I think that what D&D does need is to take the homebrew creation of something as basic as a wheelchair as a sign that WotC have missed something fundamental from their world-building.
What D&D needs is a double-page spread at the very beginning of the Player's Guide that explains how Adventurers comes from all walks of life and, regardless of their background, they are Adventurers because they are extraordinary, and not the other way around.
Don't specify rules for Combat Wheelchairs - instead, make it abundantly clear that to become an Adventurer, a person in a wheelchair has already learned to cope and can do whatever it takes to get around and act out their Class role, and that any issues which come up - if there are any appropriate to the type of game that you are running - should be storytelling points agreed upon by the Player and the GM to make it welcoming and fun, rather than an objective list of things that disabled people can and cannot do according to a list of arbitrary rules written by someone without an appropriate perspective. I'm pretty sure that disabled people already know that stuff, and don't need it abstracted incompetently for them in terms of stats and dice penalties.

Disabled people are everywhere, in and out of the game setting. Don't make them into 'a thing' that needs to be quantified and qualified, just make it clear that they are a source of roleplay and interesting perspectives to engage with, not something to be pitied and 'solved' any more than they are a humble superhero to be put on a pedestal.

I think the bottom line that I'm thinking here is; a game that needs rules for expansive Combat Wheelchairs hasn't solved the problem of how to include disabled people as both players and characters, and no amount of tinkering with items is going to fix that.

[StoneSeraph]

Like most people in the thread have said, the concept of the D&D Combat Wheelchair is excellent. It's inclusive and allows marginalised people to feel like there's a place for them within the game that doesn't have to be as far removed and abstract as "pretend to be a Winged Elf Wizard", and it does so without being patronising and giving such people "permission" to come and play.
The rules as presented are an advertisement - "stuff that lets you be you is already here, please come an experience it with us" and that is wonderful. More please.

Emphasis mine, and I wholly and entirely disagree with you on that point. If I presented the Combat Wheelchair, as is, to one of my players who regularly uses a wheelchair, saying "Here, this lets you be you", the entire group would boot me for being a rude, insensitive jerk, as if that player needed some magical item to make them feel special, let alone part of the game, or that "him being him" is somehow a problem that needs to be "fixed". I don't have the gall to be that rude.

That said, I entirely agree with your last several statements to a large extent:

Disabled people are everywhere, in and out of the game setting. Don't make them into 'a thing' that needs to be quantified and qualified, just make it clear that they are a source of roleplay and interesting perspectives to engage with, not something to be pitied and 'solved' any more than they are a humble superhero to be put on a pedestal.

I think the bottom line that I'm thinking here is; a game that needs rules for expansive Combat Wheelchairs hasn't solved the problem of how to include disabled people as both players and characters, and no amount of tinkering with items is going to fix that.

I don't think it needs rules for a Combat Wheelchair, or any other thing that caters to some issue de jour. I think you stated it best:

What D&D needs is a double-page spread at the very beginning of the Player's Guide that explains how Adventurers comes from all walks of life and, regardless of their background, they are Adventurers because they are extraordinary, and not the other way around.

[moonfly7]

Wouldn't wheelchairs be a useless magical item in 5e when magical prosthetic's already exist? If you don't feel like chopping off your legs because you're paralyzed from the waste down surely a magical pairs of leg braces would allow you to move around like nothing is wrong. Love the concept, but magic wheelchairs don't make any sense in 5e because there are simply better options for the disabled.

[Valmark]

Wouldn't wheelchairs be a useless magical item in 5e when magical prosthetic's already exist? If you don't feel like chopping off your legs because you're paralyzed from the waste down surely a magical pairs of leg braces would allow you to move around like nothing is wrong. Love the concept, but magic wheelchairs don't make any sense in 5e because there are simply better options for the disabled.

Depends on the availability. As it is there isn't a lot of support for that that I know of in terms of items that let you move around freely until you get to rare enough items.

If one homebrews then it's kinda moot since one can do whatever (or by keeping it narrative) but if there were 'official wheelchairs' that are more easily available then other options they'd be useful.

EDIT: And less controversial. I probably would never accept to have my legs cut off.

[Sigreid]

Depends on the availability. As it is there isn't a lot of support for that that I know of in terms of items that let you move around freely until you get to rare enough items.

If one homebrews then it's kinda moot since one can do whatever (or by keeping it narrative) but if there were 'official wheelchairs' that are more easily available then other options they'd be useful.

EDIT: And less controversial. I probably would never accept to have my legs cut off.

For one, the artificer Armorer armor would be something I would interpret as doing it. One example, but it's one.

[moonfly7]

Depends on the availability. As it is there isn't a lot of support for that that I know of in terms of items that let you move around freely until you get to rare enough items.

If one homebrews then it's kinda moot since one can do whatever (or by keeping it narrative) but if there were 'official wheelchairs' that are more easily available then other options they'd be useful.

EDIT: And less controversial. I probably would never accept to have my legs cut off.

Actually, counter point to myself: isn't it cheaper to just pay a cleric to cast restoration on you than it is to by a rare or higher magic item?

[KaussH]

My 2 cents

First off, in game wheelchairs, basic prosthetics, assistance cane, ect should all be a thing already. They may run from the cheap (we put wheels on the bottom of this box, we just hooked up a hook) but if people have survived to x point, they will have the stuff they need.

Combat wheelchair is just a higher end and more expensive option, and that is fine. I prefer lower magic higher tech (clockwork wind up propulsion for example) but that's the fluffy part. In game I would go one of 2 paths. 1) treat it like a lot of games treat a 0 point disadvantage. Aka, the accommodation works, it follows all the normal rules for whatever you are doing, and it is just narrative flavor. Your chair keeps up with the party, and you look cool doing the wheelchair pop up stairs. Less realistic but game wise super easy. Since it has no game effect, it's a level one staring coolness.

Option 2
I talk to the player and if they want a more involved chair, we work out an even/odds set up. Aka normal move in general, bonus for flat, reduced on stairs unless an check is made . Something like that, nothing that gives a flat advantage or disadvantage. I also keep the option open to get stuff built on later for money.


In either case. Wind up, minor repair, general care is all taken care of like weapon sharpening and polishing your boots, its stuff that happens, but doesnt get played or rolled since it's super boring.

I would not, at this time, have any, mass production of chairs. But I could see it if i introduced something that caused a lot of people to need chairs. In that case combat wheelchair would just be some kind of upgrade from general wheelchair.

[Sigreid]

Actually, counter point to myself: isn't it cheaper to just pay a cleric to cast restoration on you than it is to by a rare or higher magic item?

I suppose it could all depend. It's possible that the player has an issue from birth, something that didn't develop right such that there isn't really anything to repair as it's not damage, strictly speaking.

[MadBear]

Again, keep in mind, not everyone who uses a wheelchair sees it as a problem to be fixed. I have an entire documentary I show my students that goes over some of the newer prosthetics and technology that is being developed. Some people are truly excited and want bionic arms/legs etc. and others very clearly do not want that at all.

To the point that was made that it'd be insulting for you to bring it up to your player, that's because you'd be making a bunch of assumptions about how they have their fun in doing so. Maybe for them they prefer D&D to be escapism where they can play someone who has no need of a wheelchair. Maybe they want to play a character with a similar disability, but bionic/magic that fixed it. Maybe they'd like to play a character in a wheelchair. To put it in perspective, that'd be like us talking about including different ethnicities in the game and you saying "But wouldn't it be insulting if I just walked up to my asian friend and said "You can play an asian in this game"".

[CharonsHelper]

one time i almost played a character who was blind from birth. Came to an agreement with the DM that while they were "Blind", they weren't "Blinded", and didn't suffer the condition as a baseline outside a -2 to AC from ranged attacks. And they could still become blinded by the usual sources, even if it didn't make a whole lot of sense.

all it really takes to be honest.

Back in 3.5, there were rules such that playing a blind character was possible, at least by mid levels.

I played a blind character with no special rules, but with the Combat Focus feat tree he had Blindsight 5ft, and he had another feat which made pinpointing enemies very easy. He couldn't fire at range, but he had a tower shield to help out.

[MaxWilson]

Again, keep in mind, not everyone who uses a wheelchair sees it as a problem to be fixed. I have an entire documentary I show my students that goes over some of the newer prosthetics and technology that is being developed. Some people are truly excited and want bionic arms/legs etc. and others very clearly do not want that at all.

In a high-magic fantasy world though, a key question is "do wealthy disabled people who don't want Regenerate, Clone, or even prosthetics but aren't satisfied with regular wheelchairs constitute a market large enough to justify R&D?"

Would there even be real-world research into prosthetics at all if we already had regeneration technology? I am skeptical.

Back in 3.5, there were rules such that playing a blind character was possible, at least by mid levels.

I played a blind character with no special rules, but with the Combat Focus feat tree he had Blindsight 5ft, and he had another feat which made pinpointing enemies very easy. He couldn't fire at range, but he had a tower shield to help out.

Alert feat + Darkness or Fog Cloud is the 5E equivalent. Blind, Alert Shadow Monk works just fine, in combat at least. The out-of-combat stuff like meeting NPCs and exploring other people's houses can be amusingly awkward.