Combat wheelchairs

[Dr. Cliché]

I once had a paladin get hit with "Permanent blindness" due to a critical hit from an enemy mid-combat. so here i am all excited and thinking about all the angst and conflict that could arise from this, the different ways he could overcome it, the stories that could fall from him getting frustrated and discovering a new outlook on life... then in the next turn, someone casts greater restoration and completely fixes it without issue... Was kind of disappointing. Let the paladin keep fighting sure, but it was so much less compelling now. Not really "Permanent" blindness if you can just get rid of it in six seconds right?

Yeah, this is something I've encountered as well. I find that, at least from a narrative perspective, healing magic often makes things too easy.

It's a similar issue with stuff like curses. e.g. a player is bitten by a werewolf. Well this could offer some interesting new dynamics and- oh, nevermind, they just cured it outright with a 3nd level spell.

I don't know, it just seems like curing this sort of thing should really be a quest all on its own, rather than having an instant-fix.

[Draconi Redfir]

Yeah, this is something I've encountered as well. I find that, at least from a narrative perspective, healing magic often makes things too easy.

It's a similar issue with stuff like curses. e.g. a player is bitten by a werewolf. Well this could offer some interesting new dynamics and- oh, nevermind, they just cured it outright with a 3nd level spell.

I don't know, it just seems like curing this sort of thing should really be a quest all on its own, rather than having an instant-fix.

pretty much yup.

[Zhorn]

Nitpick: Find Familiar is pretty crummy for blind characters because of action economy clog: you can't see and attack/cast in the same round unless you Action Surge. For an actual blind character I recommend Alert instead or if you're playing with Tasha's rules, Fighting Style: Blindsight.

The exact mechanic being used was not the point, the comparison was the method of getting around it. One being given a solution for free on top of what mechanics the player would have access to vs using something within the limited choices of a character's build to address the problem.
Find Familiar isn't optimised, true. Just as a disability isn't optimized. Getting a perfect solution handed to you for free comes across as very different from building out your levels and limited skill choices to overcome the challenge over time.

[Unoriginal]

Don't you need Regenerate if the body part is destroyed, rather than Greater Restauration?

[Dr. Cliché]

Don't you need Regenerate if the body part is destroyed, rather than Greater Restauration?

(Minor point - technically it would be Lesser Restoration, not Greater, as for some reason the latter does not seem to be able to undo the same effects as the former.)

I think this is one of the issues with 5e's vague rules. Lesser Restoration simply says that you can end one condition on the target, including Blindness. However, it fails to specify any limit on this (so there's nothing to indicate that it can't undo blindness caused by physical damage, rather than by magical effects).

Hell, if you wanted to be That Guy, you could probably make a RAW argument for Lesser Restoration allowing a character to see in magical darkness. ("A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition (see appendix A).")

[JackPhoenix]

(Minor point - technically it would be Lesser Restoration, not Greater, as for some reason the latter does not seem to be able to undo the same effects as the former.)

I think this is one of the issues with 5e's vague rules. Lesser Restoration simply says that you can end one condition on the target, including Blindness. However, it fails to specify any limit on this (so there's nothing to indicate that it can't undo blindness caused by physical damage, rather than by magical effects).

Hell, if you wanted to be That Guy, you could probably make a RAW argument for Lesser Restoration allowing a character to see in magical darkness. ("A creature in a heavily obscured area effectively suffers from the blinded condition (see appendix A).")

Well, Lesser Restoration doesn't stop the condition from being re-applied immediately, so it's less useful as a mean of gaining darkvision.

[Dr. Cliché]

Well, Lesser Restoration doesn't stop the condition from being re-applied immediately, so it's less useful as a mean of gaining darkvision.

But by that logic, surely any spells or other effects that cause the blinded condition would also reapply themselves immediately (at least until their listed duration expires)?

[TheMango55]

But by that logic, surely any spells or other effects that cause the blinded condition would also reapply themselves immediately (at least until their listed duration expires)?

“If you can use a towel to dry off when you leave the pool, why can’t you use a towel to dry off while in the pool?”

[MaxWilson]

“If you can use a towel to dry off when you leave the pool, why can’t you use a towel to dry off while in the pool?”

You can if the towel is big enough and absorbent enough.

[Quaryon]

You can if the towel is big enough and absorbent enough.

Or you just need to sprinkle the towel with sufficient Dust of Dryness.

Although a Towel of Infinite Drying would be a great counterpart to the Decanter of Endless Water.

[MaxWilson]

Or you just need to sprinkle the towel with sufficient Dust of Dryness.

Although a Towel of Infinite Drying would be a great counterpart to the Decanter of Endless Water.

Heh. Just as long as you remember to put a rate limiter on it (100 gallons per day?), or it will immediately break your campaign.

[Sigreid]

Haven't read the rules, but if someone in my group wanted a wheel chair bound character or I wanted an NPC one who was competent in battle, I'd just go with "Play the character as normal but describe and hold in your mind's eye a wheelchair and how it works in the narrative. If you want to build your self what is essentially a tank, very cool. Tell me how you're investing your resources."

In short, I don't need special rules for this.

[HolyDraconus]

Haven't read the rules, but if someone in my group wanted a wheel chair bound character or I wanted an NPC one who was competent in battle, I'd just go with "Play the character as normal but describe and hold in your mind's eye a wheelchair and how it works in the narrative. If you want to build your self what is essentially a tank, very cool. Tell me how you're investing your resources."

In short, I don't need special rules for this.

That may be true, but what if these rules are adopted in a similar fashion as Tashas?

[MaxWilson]

That may be true, but what if these rules are adopted in a similar fashion as Tashas?

I'll burn that bridge when we come to it.

[Sigreid]

That may be true, but what if these rules are adopted in a similar fashion as Tashas?

Then like with Tasha's I'd consider using or not using any given option on an individual basis. Tasha's isn't getting adopted wholesale at my table.

[HolyDraconus]

Then like with Tasha's I'd consider using or not using any given option on an individual basis. Tasha's isn't getting adopted wholesale at my table.

So you arent concerned with the backlash from rejecting these rules which are in a similar vein to what happened when people rejected Tashas? A lot of those arguments can be made here after all.

[Sigreid]

So you arent concerned with the backlash from rejecting these rules which are in a similar vein to what happened when people rejected Tashas? A lot of those arguments can be made here after all.

Nope. I rejected half of what caused the angst in Tasha's. Since I see the different races as actually not human I've divided the racial abilities into actual inborn differences and cultural upbringing. So things like stats and what could be considered innate powers can't be changed but things that can be considered cultural like skill and weapon training can.

But, I also play with the same small group of 5 that I've played with for decades.

Edit: If someone at my table wanted to talk about rules, we can talk. I don't actually want to play with anyone that's going to throw a tantrum about rules. Also, from what I have seen in this thread, it sounds like the rules are just a way to make the handicapped character so much cooler than you walkers. Not down for that.

[Warder]

So you arent concerned with the backlash from rejecting these rules which are in a similar vein to what happened when people rejected Tashas? A lot of those arguments can be made here after all.

I think on the whole, people are far too concerned both with what's going on at other peoples' tables and with what people think about what's going on at their own tables. I have my own reasons for rejecting several of the new rules in Tasha's and I feel I'm on a pretty solid moral (and mechanical, and narrative) foundation. If someone on the Internet disagrees with me, that's fine, but it won't affect my own or their enjoyment of the game.

What I'm mainly concerned about is D&D 6e, which I suspect will adopt many optional rules as mandatory. If that happens, that's likely to fracture the community a great deal.

[ProsecutorGodot]

What I'm mainly concerned about is D&D 6e, which I suspect will adopt many optional rules as mandatory. If that happens, that's likely to fracture the community a great deal.

I doubt it will "fracture" it any more than those who chose to stay within 3.Xe or migrated to a new system during the 4e transition/5e starting phase.

Old editions won't suddenly become obsolete, the system won't suddenly become mandatory. Those who don't like new things in the eventual 6e probably won't play it, nothing wrong with that.

[Sigreid]

I doubt it will "fracture" it any more than those who chose to stay within 3.Xe or migrated to a new system during the 4e transition/5e starting phase.

Old editions won't suddenly become obsolete, the system won't suddenly become mandatory. Those who don't like new things in the eventual 6e probably won't play it, nothing wrong with that.

Yep. I didn't get into 4e not because I thought it was an objectively bad system, but I just didn't care for it. That could happen again and I'll be fine.

[noob]

Heh. Just as long as you remember to put a rate limiter on it (100 gallons per day?), or it will immediately break your campaign.

I was rather thinking about a flow limiter equal to the one of the decanter of endless water.
Flooding a valley is comparably destructive as drying a lake.

[Valmark]

Assuming it's the link that has been shared through the thread I'm not a fan of this homebrew- I don't think it hits the mark by creating an item that any adventurer should be keeping with them, not just disabled ones.

Maybe I haven't red it carefully enough, but it seems to me that while a basic combat weelchair puts you pretty much on par with other characters' mobility an upgraded combat weelchair would be a boost for all characters.

[MaxWilson]

I was rather thinking about a flow limiter equal to the one of the decanter of endless water.
Flooding a valley is comparably destructive as drying a lake.

Yep, that's one way to implement a rate limiter. Sounds good.

Assuming it's the link that has been shared through the thread I'm not a fan of this homebrew- I don't think it hits the mark by creating an item that any adventurer should be keeping with them, not just disabled ones.

Maybe I haven't red it carefully enough, but it seems to me that while a basic combat weelchair puts you pretty much on par with other characters' mobility an upgraded combat weelchair would be a boost for all characters.

Even the basic wheelchair would be of interest to Heavy Armor wearers with Strength < 15.

[noob]

Yep, that's one way to implement a rate limiter. Sounds good.



Even the basic wheelchair would be of interest to Heavy Armor wearers with Strength < 15.

"I am perfectly able bodied but I never leave my chair because this way I can wear more armour"
That would have rather interesting implications.

[MaxWilson]

"I am perfectly able bodied but I never leave my chair because this way I can wear more armour"
That would have rather interesting implications.

You don't even need "never leave my chair." Just "this is my combat chair which I use for more speed while exploring dangerous dungeons." Kind of like a combat exoskeleton.

The fact that the homebrew rules encourage this mentality is probably an unintended consequence--if combat chairs become a standard PC accessory I get the feeling the author would be unhappy at the erasure of a distinguishing trait.

[Draconi Redfir]

How exactly are you supposed to fight while in a wheelchair though? You need your hands free to move the chair don't you?



Just out of curiosity because i don't follow 5th edition very closely, what exactly is the apparent problem with Tasha's that was briefly discussed a few posts up?

[Sigreid]

How exactly are you supposed to fight while in a wheelchair though? You need your hands free to move the chair don't you?



Just out of curiosity because i don't follow 5th edition very closely, what exactly is the apparent problem with Tasha's that was briefly discussed a few posts up?

I assume it has some kind of self powered mobility.

On a side note, a real world viking had the nick name legless and was carried into battle by his followers on a litter.

[Unoriginal]

Just out of curiosity because i don't follow 5th edition very closely, what exactly is the apparent problem with Tasha's that was briefly discussed a few posts up?

There is no real "apparent problem" with the Tasha's. Factually, the Tasha's contains rules about the races, WotC claimed said rules were because of their new stances on political subjects we aren't allowed to talk on this forum, and some people have been unreasonable on the topic due to that.

[Draconi Redfir]

There is no real "apparent problem" with the Tasha's. Factually, the Tasha's contains rules about the races, WotC claimed said rules were because of their new stances on political subjects we aren't allowed to talk on this forum, and some people have been unreasonable on the topic due to that.

ahh, gotcha. no further questions then.

I assume it has some kind of self powered mobility.

Hopefully mechanical. Else that thing would make you super vulnerable in an anti-magic field.


though to be fair, those things aren't super common.

[Sigreid]

There is no real "apparent problem" with the Tasha's. Factually, the Tasha's contains rules about the races, WotC claimed said rules were because of their new stances on political subjects we aren't allowed to talk on this forum, and some people have been unreasonable on the topic due to that.

Not intending to start it up. Just wanted to say in my opinion, the people involved in the argument weren't all having the same argument. I think there were a few different arguments being made around the same center point.