Combat wheelchairs

[Valmark]

ahh, gotcha. no further questions then.

Hopefully mechanical. Else that thing would make you super vulnerable in an anti-magic field.

though to be fair, those things aren't super common.

Partly magical actually- it uses some magical stones as part of the propulsion system. Oh and yeah, self-propelled but you need the upgrade to operate it mentally, otherwise you still need your hand to slide on the touch screen and tell it where to go (it doesn't actually have a touch screen but the description resembles that a lot).

Or maybe an optical mouse would be a better comparison, unsure.

[Sigreid]

Partly magical actually- it uses some magical stones as part of the propulsion system. Oh and yeah, self-propelled but you need the upgrade to operate it mentally, otherwise you still need your hand to slide on the touch screen and tell it where to go (it doesn't actually have a touch screen but the description resembles that a lot).

Or maybe an optical mouse would be a better comparison, unsure.

I think modern powered wheelchairs mostly have a joystick, so I would have assumed that.

[Valmark]

I think modern powered wheelchairs mostly have a joystick, so I would have assumed that.

According to the description it has "Beacon Stones" implanted in the armchairs and one slides their finger on them to guide the wheelchair. Interestingly on re-read they can also be pushed and that doesn't change the speed. Maybe they are only really needed for the levitation part.

I think the vulnerability to Anti-Magic Field is probably an oversight- Beacon Stones are immune to Dispel Magic, it says, so I kinda imagine the writer meant to make them impossible to deactivate (I could easily be wrong).

[Keltest]

According to the description it has "Beacon Stones" implanted in the armchairs and one slides their finger on them to guide the wheelchair. Interestingly on re-read they can also be pushed and that doesn't change the speed. Maybe they are only really needed for the levitation part.

I think the vulnerability to Anti-Magic Field is probably an oversight- Beacon Stones are immune to Dispel Magic, it says, so I kinda imagine the writer meant to make them impossible to deactivate (I could easily be wrong).

That would make them equivalent in power to an artifact, which is explicitly the only type of magic item that still works in an AMF.

[Valmark]

That would make them equivalent in power to an artifact, which is explicitly the only type of magic item that still works in an AMF.

Which shouldn't be the case since the stones should be equivalent in power to a cantrip according to the description.

But as far as I'm aware Dispel Magic doesn't work by default on magical items, which is why I got doubts (note that this is all speculation on my part, as written the stones are vulnerable to AMF).

[Sigreid]

Which shouldn't be the case since the stones should be equivalent in power to a cantrip according to the description.

But as far as I'm aware Dispel Magic doesn't work by default on magical items, which is why I got doubts (note that this is all speculation on my part, as written the stones are vulnerable to AMF).

I think dispel magic was able to temporarily suppress, but not end magic items. Not 100% sure.

[JackPhoenix]

I think dispel magic was able to temporarily suppress, but not end magic items. Not 100% sure.

Nope. It only ends spells on the target.

Also, beacon stone's description make it sound like trackball more than anything else.

[EggKookoo]

I do find the idea of wheelchair-accessible dungeons funny.

[noob]

I do find the idea of wheelchair-accessible dungeons funny.

I am quite sure it would make sense with wheelchair riding dungeon denizens.
But if you started doing that people would probably feel offended at the idea you associate handicap with living in a dungeon.

[EggKookoo]

I am quite sure it would make sense with wheelchair riding dungeon denizens.

I'm having visions of Monty Python.

Orc 1: Yeah, so here we have the pit trap. We disguised the floor with special tiles that look normal, but if you look closely some are colored different than the others. If you step on those colored ones, you can pass without triggering the trap.
Orc 2: Right right. Those tiles are pretty far apart, though.
Orc 1: Exactly! You gotta make big steps to get across. What, you're no weakling, right? You can do it!
Orc 2: Of course I can! I'm stronger than you!
Orc 1: Ha ha, yeah, in your dreams buddy.
Orc 2: Ok, so what's this path next to the trap?
Orc 1: That? That's for wheelchairs.

[PhoenixPhyre]

I'm having visions of Monty Python.

Orc 1: Yeah, so here we have the pit trap. We disguised the floor with special tiles that look normal, but if you look closely some are colored different than the others. If you step on those colored ones, you can pass without triggering the trap.
Orc 2: Right right. Those tiles are pretty far apart, though.
Orc 1: Exactly! You gotta make big steps to get across. What, you're no weakling, right? You can do it!
Orc 2: Of course I can! I'm stronger than you!
Orc 1: Ha ha, yeah, in your dreams buddy.
Orc 2: Ok, so what's this path next to the trap?
Orc 1: That? That's for wheelchairs.

And what about the color blind? We can't use colors for functional purposes! Those safe tiles have to have distinct patterns or icons!

[Amechra]

I do find the idea of wheelchair-accessible dungeons funny.

I think the level of silliness depends on what the dungeon is.

If it's a perfectly wheelchair-accessible natural cave or trap-infested kobold lair? Yeah, that'd be pretty weird. But there's no reason why a long-abandoned city, warlord's fortress, or lich's tower has to be impossible for people in wheelchairs to traverse.

[MaxWilson]

I think the level of silliness depends on what the dungeon is.

If it's a perfectly wheelchair-accessible natural cave or trap-infested kobold lair? Yeah, that'd be pretty weird. But there's no reason why a long-abandoned city, warlord's fortress, or lich's tower has to be impossible for people in wheelchairs to traverse.

How do you think the Combat Wheelchair crowd will react to the dungeons that happen NOT to be wheelchair-accessible? Or is the idea that all of the dungeons in the campaign just happen to fall on one end of the spectrum?

[Valmark]

And what about the color blind? We can't use colors for functional purposes! Those safe tiles have to have distinct patterns or icons!

As someone who is partially color-blind I'd like to say that this is pretty accurate :p

[MaxWilson]

As someone who is partially color-blind I'd like to say that this is pretty accurate :p

You could also go the other way and use colors as a distraction / optical illusion, so that the pattern is only visible to the color blind (alternately: when relying on darkvision).

[EggKookoo]

And what about the color blind? We can't use colors for functional purposes! Those safe tiles have to have distinct patterns or icons!

I was wondering if anyone was going to catch that.

If it's a perfectly wheelchair-accessible natural cave or trap-infested kobold lair? Yeah, that'd be pretty weird. But there's no reason why a long-abandoned city, warlord's fortress, or lich's tower has to be impossible for people in wheelchairs to traverse.

In real life, cities have accessibility options for most of the public areas, or places we want the general public to be. Any place that's tucked away like a hidden vault or guarded chamber is almost certainly not going to have it. And even then, "accessible" often means tech-based things. I used to work in a 10-story building in Boston that touted its accessibility, and what that really meant was it had things like lots of elevators. But if the power went out, a wheelchair-bound individual would basically be stuck.

Most other "dungeons" that a D&D party is going to explore are likely to be designed expressly to keep people out, wheelchair-bound or otherwise.

[Menji]

No thanks. Not interested in this nonsense or playing in any game in which it's being included. And this type of thing becomes a priority, I'm fine with buying and playing other games that aren't trying to push an agenda. Your move, WoTC.

[Jon talks a lot]

No thanks. Not interested in this nonsense or playing in any game in which it's being included. And this type of thing becomes a priority, I'm fine with buying and playing other games that aren't trying to push an agenda. Your move, WoTC.

It's a homebrew that some people want to play with. Don't really know why It matters to you so much. WOTC didn't even make it, nor is it stated that it will become official. Your move, guy who doesn't understand the situation.

And the idea that any game isn't trying to push an agenda in some form or other is just silly.

[KorvinStarmast]

And the idea that any game isn't trying to push an agenda in some form or other is just silly.

some of us play to have fun. I have played in D&D games whose tone made tearing about the dungeon in a magical wheelchair seem sane, dull and sober. Depends on the group, in my experience.

Crawford often add this to his tweets: follow your bliss.
I think he's right to keep making that point in his tweets.

[Sigreid]

And the idea that any game isn't trying to push an agenda in some form or other is just silly.

I think it's possible that the Savage Worlds Flash Gordon game is pretty agenda free. :P

On a more serious note, I'm curious about the logistics of it. Who is making these wheel chairs, and why is there such a demand for a combat focused wheel chair that they went beyond making a custom job for a friend but can market them as a standard model and upgrades?

[PhoenixPhyre]

I think it's possible that the Savage Worlds Flash Gordon game is pretty agenda free. :P

On a more serious note, I'm curious about the logistics of it. Who is making these wheel chairs, and why is there such a demand for a combat focused wheel chair that they went beyond making a custom job for a friend but can market them as a standard model and upgrades?

In the land of the legless, the combat wheelchair maker is king.

[PhantomSoul]

On a more serious note, I'm curious about the logistics of it. Who is making these wheel chairs, and why is there such a demand for a combat focused wheel chair that they went beyond making a custom job for a friend but can market them as a standard model and upgrades?

A whole city for retired adventurers (who didn't go for magic-item prosthetics and didn't want to use other magical adaptations?), probably the one city that reliably has elevators (or no second storeys, given ramp lengths required? Unless the whole city is two single-floor cities stacked up...).

[ProsecutorGodot]

I think it's possible that the Savage Worlds Flash Gordon game is pretty agenda free. :P

On a more serious note, I'm curious about the logistics of it. Who is making these wheel chairs, and why is there such a demand for a combat focused wheel chair that they went beyond making a custom job for a friend but can market them as a standard model and upgrades?

The page says that there's a crack team of Artificers, and if we assume magical healing is all but worthless at treating long term injuries, there would probably be an enormous demand for them from Adventurer's.

That's a pretty hefty assumption though, it assumes that an Adventurer with that kind of injury survives whatever encounter gave it to them.

I'm not sure the logistics really pan out from any angle and I'm not sure if it's meant to. I think it's meant to be handwaved and accepted.

You're also not really supposed to think about why they stopped at Wheelchairs and didn't fully replace Horses and Carriages for that kind of affordable price. I mean it's very nearly an armored vehicle already, I'm ready for the Twisted Metal x FR crossover.

[Sigreid]

In the land of the legless, the combat wheelchair maker is king.

Seriously, this could happen because of the aftermath of a great war.

For the logistics, in a world where travel for most is supposed to be difficult, it's having enough customers where you are or able to get to where you are. But yes, this is not a trade simulator game. :)

[Keltest]

As far as verisimilitude goes, the big problem for me is that these things assume a certain level of magic in order to work, but that level of magic also gives you significantly better solutions for missing limbs. Its pretty glaring that it exists specifically to let somebody play as that nerd in the crazy super science wheelchair that used to show up in older cartoons, and i at least would find it pretty hard to work around that.

[PhantomSoul]

Seriously, this could happen because of the aftermath of a great war.

For the logistics, in a world where travel for most is supposed to be difficult, it's having enough customers where you are or able to get to where you are. But yes, this is not a trade simulator game. :)

That's why you make it better than an actual (real-world) wheelchair; you want non-disabled people to buy it (because it's an upgrade for them too), which makes it easier to profit from!

(No, it still doesn't explain how this fits into a setting or is usable in it without being a starting point or direct consideration for worldbuilding -- at least the worldbuilding of any area the party could possibly go, and if available from the start doing it so that this is baseline available and considered for everyone. I guess you're hopefully working with critical wound tables!)

[Zhorn]

The page says that there's a crack team of Artificers, and if we assume magical healing is all but worthless at treating long term injuries, there would probably be an enormous demand for them from Adventurer's.

I think I remember from watching an interview with Sara Thompson one of the justification she gave as to healing magic not working on these individuals was (and I'm paraphrasing here) "what if this person was born without the ability to walk? Healing magic would be unable to restore something you never had to begin with".
While I'm pretty sure that justification was introduce after having implemented the combat wheelchair, it's not the worst justification I've heard and at least makes some form of sense.

If a child developed in the womb and just didn't develop a leg, it is at least justifiable that a Regeneration spell wouldn't grow a new leg, since there was no 'severed original' to replace.

Someone born with spina bifida causing their paralysis wouldn't be the same as someone paralyzed in combat through injury or magical effect, an so Lesser Restoration (or Greater) wouldn't have a condition to eliminate since their original state is the cause of the paralysis.

[ProsecutorGodot]

I think I remember from watching an interview with Sara Thompson one of the justification she gave as to healing magic not working on these individuals was (and I'm paraphrasing here) "what if this person was born without the ability to walk? Healing magic would be unable to restore something you never had to begin with".
While I'm pretty sure that justification was introduce after having implemented the combat wheelchair, it's not the worst justification I've heard and at least makes some form of sense.

If a child developed in the womb and just didn't develop a leg, it is at least justifiable that a Regeneration spell wouldn't grow a new leg, since there was no 'severed original' to replace.

Someone born with spina bifida causing their paralysis wouldn't be the same as someone paralyzed in combat through injury or magical effect, an so Lesser Restoration (or Greater) wouldn't have a condition to eliminate since their original state is the cause of the paralysis.

That make enough sense, but heroes with those sorts of conditions would be exceptional and probably fall under the "this wheelchair was made by my tinker friend for me" and not "they sell these in every major city in the off chance I show up" as Sigreid framed it.

The way the homebrew frames it, there's an active and easily accessible market for acquiring and modifying the chair, the only obstacle being that you can afford one.

[Zhorn]

Yeah, the narrative justification on existing marketplace part I can't defend as it doesn't make sense to me either.

[Ignimortis]

You don't even need "never leave my chair." Just "this is my combat chair which I use for more speed while exploring dangerous dungeons." Kind of like a combat exoskeleton.

The fact that the homebrew rules encourage this mentality is probably an unintended consequence--if combat chairs become a standard PC accessory I get the feeling the author would be unhappy at the erasure of a distinguishing trait.

I wonder if the enchantment can be reused for a mini-mecha. Or something like a WH40k Dreadnought (IIRC that's what those marine-mechas are called). The pilot being combat-impaired (if not useless) outside of their vehicle would also be a given for such.