Blackwing was a mistake?

[Precure]

While checking out Rich Burlew's recent Patreon answers, a certain question and answer made me wondered. This one:

Question: What drove you to make Blackwing a deeper and more relevant character as the comic went on?

Answer: ...after putting Vaarsuvius through all the trouble with the fiends and the black dragons, I knew I was going to have them keep that a secret from Roy and the others. But I also needed a character for them to talk to about it because most of the story takes place through dialogue. Blackwing provided someone who would already know everything that had happened and could serve as V’s confidant in those matters.

After thinking about this hard an long, I've reached into the conclusion that Blackwing's recent relevance as the sole confidant of Vaarsuvius was not only unnecessary, it was actually detrimental to V's character and their relationship with other characters. I'll try to explain my reasoning.

First of all, it was unnecessary. V already had a friend they could confide in matters such as this, namely Haley Starshine. I can understand V's reluctance to talk to Durkon and Elan considering the past events, I could also see why they keep it a secret from Roy considering his paladinisch tendencies, and Belkar was probably too unpredictable to trust. But as far as I can see, there was no reason for them to keep it a secret from Haley, basically the closest person to V in the team. Even if V might fear repercussions due to goodish Haley's disagreement with what V has done (which seems like an unfounded fear, considering how none of the current team members seems to care about V's "magnanimous" action), they should at least trust that Haley would keep it a secret. Haley was the only person V talk about their personal life before, how can they possibly think of not informing her about their recent problems at home? On top of that, Haley was a very important piece in this puzzle: It was V's determination to save Haley that led to their murder of the black dragon, it was V's obsession with finding Haley that pushed them into the edge, etc. It makes no sense for V to not talk to Haley about all that happened. Considering Haley's own self doubts about her goodness, they should be able to help each other by talking about their own experiences.

Second to that, it was also detrimental for Vaarsuvius's character development and their relationship with other characters, most of all Haley. V is basically isolated from other characters and frozen in time, their character arc is stopped its progression until the events in the pyramid. Blackwing might talk to V about the events, but he is no Haley and had very little personality. In fact most of their dialogues were nothing more than soliloquies by V with very little actual thought process and contribution from Blackwing himself. Any chances to bring out more sides of V's personality is lost by removing them from Haley and other characters. Their interaction with Elan too was gone, there was even people who argued that Elan hates V and want to not interact with them ever again, which is confirmed to be not the case after all. Their interaction with Durkon too was gone due to V's secret. V was emotionally exiled from the group.

Last but not least, it was detrimental to Haley herself. Roy was already away and with her only interaction with V is reduced into a brief slave liberation operation, Haley's only interaction was with her boyfriend. Even when she and Elan disagreed about Tarquin, she had nothing else to confide, V was there but they weren't any help. Haley too had her own secrets she only shared with Elan and not V, which again exacerbated their lack of interaction. Haley was figuratively trapped in cell with Elan and no one else to talk. It basically undermined her chances to express her personality and in long term hurt her character development by reducing her into a part of Elan/Tarquin story. Even her father's main contribution to the comic was ultimately being end up as a story element in Elan/Tarquin story.

[Ionathus]

I disagree with basically everything you've said. I think you're putting artificial restrictions on how stories are allowed to happen, and what "character development" looks like.

A major drawback to the "ensemble cast" style that OotS has become is that not every character will always share the spotlight. Durkon's backstory basically consumed the entire last book, but it was also about Roy admitting his failures, Belkar grappling with his developing conscience, and Haley getting a minor "goodbye" to Crystal and the Thieves' Guild phase of her life. She'd grown and didn't need to lie anymore. Rich's commentary in the Utterly Dwarfed book is really insightful here about her story.

But nobody would argue that Utterly Dwarfed really concerned Elan or Vaarsuvius all that much. And that's not a bad thing. Elan got a ton of plot attention in Blood Runs in the Family, and V did as well. What's more, both of them got loads of attention in Don't Split the Party, with Rich even saying in that book's commentary that DStP is basically written around V's arc.

As to your comments about Blackwing...consider that not everyone will agree with you. I, for one, love Blackwing as a character. His attitude, snarkiness, and general irreverence are quintessential animal sidekick comic relief, but they also get to help V process some really big stuff...you know, like an animal companion is supposed to do. You may dislike V's morality "monologues", but I enjoyed them immensely and thought they were well-written with two distinct voices.

Not liking Blackwing as a character is totally understandable, but I don't at all think that his presence has hurt V's relationship with Haley, anyone's character development, or the writing of the series as a whole.

[hroþila]

I think you start from the flawed premise that V would have been ready to tell Haley just because they're good friends. V was very deeply embarrassed of their actions while under the soul splice. They wouldn't have wanted to tell anyone at all, no matter how close they were. That's the kind of secret you carry to your grave if you can, and it had nothing to do with V being afraid of the repercussions. V could only tell anyone else once they had decided it was absolutely necessary for practical reasons.

So I strongly disagree it made no sense for V to keep that info from Haley. In my opinion, it would undermine V's shame if they had been ready to tell Haley what had happened straight away.

[Rogar Demonblud]

V being emotionally exiled from the group kind of was the point. Hel, V is by and large emotionally exiled from life. And Haley isn't exactly the person you talk to about issues due to her obsessive secretiveness.

[Schroeswald]

No that’s the short answer, long answer is what everyone else said but that’s less funny and about as useful, saying it because I do need to write more in white text to post and oh wait this is getting way too long ahhhh it’s the white space Ninja’s to kill me for writing something too long noooooo save meeeeeeeee

[Precure]

As to your comments about Blackwing...consider that not everyone will agree with you. I, for one, love Blackwing as a character. His attitude, snarkiness, and general irreverence are quintessential animal sidekick comic relief, but they also get to help V process some really big stuff...you know, like an animal companion is supposed to do. You may dislike V's morality "monologues", but I enjoyed them immensely and thought they were well-written with two distinct voices.

I'm very much aware that. In truth, I don't have much problem with Blackwing as a comic relief. It is the serious side of his character that was a problem.

Not liking Blackwing as a character is totally understandable, but I don't at all think that his presence has hurt V's relationship with Haley, anyone's character development, or the writing of the series as a whole.

As you implied in your post, in stories with an ensemble cast "screentime" is distributed amongst characters, giving everyone a chance to "shine" in a story. Like others, V's "time to shine" is limited. By giving V's limited dialogue time to Blackwing, it hurts V's chances to actually interact with other important characters and hurts their chance to shine.

I think you start from the flawed premise that V would have been ready to tell Haley just because they're good friends. V was very deeply embarrassed of their actions while under the soul splice. They wouldn't have wanted to tell anyone at all, no matter how close they were.

Yes, that was Rich Burlew's rationale to keep V apart from Haley, despite their shared history. But I disagree with it because, according to my beliefs, it actually hurted their characters in long time.

[GravityEmblem]

Blackwing acted as a sort of...Watson Archetype. Someone who Vaarsuvius could talk to during their internal struggle without actually being united with the party, as necessary for story purposes.

[Precure]

Blackwing acted as a sort of...Watson Archetype. Someone who Vaarsuvius could talk to during their internal struggle without actually being united with the party, as necessary for story purposes.

That's why I called their dialogues as soliloquies instead, and why I believe that using Haley would be a better choice to develop their characters better. Watson is fine as a mystery novel narrator, but his role as a character portrayal is seriously limited.

[JeenLeen]

I can sorta agree with you that Blackwing's existence in, in at least some/most of the ways you mention in your opening post, detrimental to the characters. I'm not sure if I'd really agree in the end, but I see your reasoning and it makes sense.*
However, I think there's a distinction between something being detrimental to the character (or even the character's personal growth) and detrimental to the story (including the arc of the character's growth). For the sake of argument, I could agree that Blackwing made some things worse in the end (or at least delayed certain character growth), but I think that set things up for a more interesting story. Or at least an interesting story (since we don't know how the story would've gone without Blackwing.)

*Main objection: I think V probably would be worse off as she wouldn't've talked about it with anyone, and thus wouldn't've developed in some regards, but I can see the idea that she would have felt forced to talk to Haley if Blackwing weren't an option. So arguing that doesn't seem worthwhile.

I also think Blackwing adds a good comedic element, as someone else already noted. Kinda like Belkar in the early comics, but less bloodthirsty.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Yes, that was Rich Burlew's rationale to keep V apart from Haley, despite their shared history.

Honestly, what shared history? We have one scene in OOPCs of them drinking in a bar. That shows their relationship to be fairly casual, maybe more acquaintances than friends.

[Dion]

Honestly, what shared history?

They also share an appreciation of gemstones.

https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html

[Tvtyrant]

I disagree. V is very isolated after the Familicide, but that plot had already been done with Haley's muteness so it would have been repetitive. This way we got to see V's thoughts without mountains of thought bubbles, talking at friend's skulls, or having them written into the margins.

[hungrycrow]

I would say it's unfortunate that V hasn't spoken to the others about the splice after admitting it to Roy. But that isn't Blackwing's fault, V would never have brought it up without having some character development first.

[KorvinStarmast]

...V would never have brought it up without having some character development first.

which Blackwing aided and abetted via their relationship.

I don't care that much for Blackwing as a character, but using Blackwing for this struck me as consistent with V's character: aloof and distant in general anyway, who can V talk to? Their own class feature. Makes sense in terms of a character being internally consistent.

If I am to judge this: objection noted, overruled. (Got a jury summons recently so I have to get my court jargon game face on)

[Rogar Demonblud]

I haven't had one of those ever. I testify often enough I suspect they put me on their Do Not Call list.

[Kazyan]

Interesting take! Based on those ideas, the corresponding 'What If?' scenario would be fun, e.g. what would have happened if the Explosive Runes had killed Blackwing in comic 660.

[The Pilgrim]

Interesting take! Based on those ideas, the corresponding 'What If?' scenario would be fun, e.g. what would have happened if the Explosive Runes had killed Blackwing in comic 660.

Why, V would have lost 200xp per Level. Unless V passed a DC 15 Fortitude check, in which case V would have lost only 100. Then V would be left with no familiar for a year and a day, unless V retrieves Blackwing's corpse for a Raise Dead.

[KorvinStarmast]

Why, V would have lost 200xp per Level. Unless V passed a DC 15 Fortitude check, in which case V would have lost only 100. Then V would be left with no familiar for a year and a day, unless V retrieves Blackwing's corpse for a Raise Dead.

If Blackwing dies, Belkar never gets cheap sunglasses, which would have been a great loss.

Point of order: since they were not rhinestone shades, they had to be cheap sunglasses.

[theNater]

In fact most of their dialogues were nothing more than soliloquies by V with very little actual thought process and contribution from Blackwing himself.

I have to point to comic #679. The insight from Blackwing that Vaarsuvius takes people for granted is one that V badly needed. No one else in the Order is in a position to recognize it, much less deliver it in a way that Vaarsuvius would listen to.

[Rogar Demonblud]

More on the nose, who else is around who's known V more than a handful of months? Blackwing saying it makes it clear this isn't some recent development.

[Silly Name]

My first objection would be that V and Haley's relationship isn't that developed. Haley was simply a member of the party V interacted with a bit more often and they had a casual friendship. Discussing some superficial life details doesn't make for a strong friendship.

But Blackwing was perfect in this instance. One, he can take on the Jiminy Cricket role without being accused of hypocrisy (I mean, can you imagine Haley giving lesson on trust issues and feelings of guilt? She has gotten better herself, but she is far from being able to actually school someone on the subject), and two, he's a perfect sounding board: he is "simple", he has no secondary goals, no reason to ever put someone else before V, yet is smart enough to help his wizard in seeing things they have been blind to. And he's there whenever V needs him to be, even when they don't want him to be there.

Haley, supposing V came clear to her, would have given very different advice than Blackwing's, and V may have been less inclined to listen to her.

[brian 333]

I think the OP is mistaking opportunity for obligation.

The opportunity to create greater depth of detail in V's relationship with Haley, or any other character, does not create an obligation for the author to do so.

But let's step back and look at what he did accomplish by using Blackwing.

V remains the private, analytical character to the other characters, but we readers know he has serious emotional issues with which he is wrestling.

Doing it the way the author did it may have precluded other potential options, but it opened other opportunities. For example, imagine Elan or Belkar reacting to a completely selfless act by Vaarsuvius.

[Finagle]

It's not about the story. The bird is there for kids. It's to be marketable, and a nearly-powerless character that can be a self-insertion character for children. The bird and the housecat together are supposed to be the ones that get all the plush toys and such. Although making the cat a mute probably seemed like a better idea than it actually turned out to be. Mutes are a one-trick pony that get old after a while and are a pain in the butt to write.

[Morty]

It's not about the story. The bird is there for kids. It's to be marketable, and a nearly-powerless character that can be a self-insertion character for children. The bird and the housecat together are supposed to be the ones that get all the plush toys and such. Although making the cat a mute probably seemed like a better idea than it actually turned out to be. Mutes are a one-trick pony that get old after a while and are a pain in the butt to write.

You seem to have some very odd opinions about how this comic is produced. For reference, it's not a television show.

[Finagle]

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[Dion]

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[KorvinStarmast]

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[Ruck]

You seem to have some very odd opinions about how this comic is produced. For reference, it's not a television show.

I also think it's pretty insulting to Rich to work from an assumption that he is developing characters solely to be marketed as toys rather than to tell the story he wants to tell in the best way he can.

[Ser Kevan]

Honestly, I kinda agree that Blackwing takes a bit more focus than his character deserves. Maybe this has to do with the fact most of his jokes tends to fall flat for me, but he seems a bit superfluous at this point.
Maybe he should have been gifted the ability to speak his mind to Vaarsuvius, only to regain it in important situation ?

[Riftwolf]

If V confided in Haley, it would've been a choice to tell her. With Blackwing, there was no choice; they knew everything already.
With deeply personal embarrassments and shortcomings, there's a big difference between the two.
(for the record, Blackwings jokes tend to fall flat for me most times, especially when there was a whole page dedicated to him trying and failing to free Belkar from the vampire gaze (a page that could be edited out with no repercussions to the rest of the story). But then, I'm not really here for the jokes anymore, I'm here for the story.)