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2021-01-18, 02:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
Last edited by J.C.; 2021-01-18 at 02:30 AM.
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2021-01-18, 03:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-01-18, 04:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
My idea requires a bit of set up.
First we need to find a Gloom Weaver(not the Subclass but the Monster/NPC), and take over their body with Magic Jar(Finding one can be replicated with just casting True Polymorph on an object, since they are CR9). This gives us their body, and most of our statistics are replaced with theirs. We retain our class, alignment and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. (Magic Jar won't let us use a targets class features, sadly) We don't get access to the Gloom Weavers Spellcasting but we get their Innate Spellcasting and all their other stuff. Mainly we are after their Multi attack. This lets us make 2 attacks with their spear and cast 1 spell(with casting time of 1 action), with just 1 action. For example, 2 spear attacks and an eldritch blast for 6 attacks.
For this we need at least 11 lvls in Wizard(or use Bards ability to steal spells), for 6th level spells.
Next we need 2 levels of Fighter, for Action surge. Easy way to almost double our attacks.
At this point, we could cast Jim's Magic missile at 6th level, +2 spear attacks with our action(thanks to the Gloomweavers Multi attack) then action surge and do it again(albeit with a 5th level Jim's) for 8+2 + 7+2 = 19 attacks.
We still got 7 levels, bonus action and our concentration left to spend.
Lets go to 17th level wizard(can't think of any subclass that gives us extra attacks with this combo), and 3rd level fighter(echo Knight)
Lets also use Haste on our selves, and a second 1h weapon(and the Dual Wielder feat), or a scimitar of speed(Crown of Stars also works, if precast).
Now for the full combo:
We get a new snazzy body, cast haste & summon our Incarnation. Then we use multi attack to cast a 9th level Jim's, and make 2 spear attacks for 11 + 2 attacks. Use our action surge to do it again with an 8th level Jim's(or a 9th if we have the boon, it's just 1 more attack) for 10 + 2 attacks. We use our haste action for 1 attack, and Unleash our Incarnation for 1 extra attack(only when we take the attack action). Lastly we use our bonus action for 1 dualwielder attack, since we took the attack action.
For a total of 11 + 2 + 10 + 2 + 2 + 1 = 28 attacks.Last edited by Rara1212; 2021-01-18 at 04:22 AM.
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2021-01-18, 04:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
im pretty sure cantrips are based on class level, not character level, so your eldritch blast wouldn't have 4 attacks.
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2021-01-18, 04:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-01-18, 04:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2017
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2021-01-18, 04:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-01-18, 05:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
Feels like Jim's Magic Missile really took the fun out of this concept... Always weirds me out when I see it come up in discussions, too, since it just seems to be a goofy homebrew spell from a podcast campaign that was popular enough to get an official book. But official IS official, and this is about a goofy hypothetical challenge to begin with.
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2021-01-18, 05:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-01-18, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
More like Tenser's for the sweet 46d12 Force + Advantage on all attacks.
Obviously Shapechange takes the trophy though: turn into a Hydra, get your heads lobbed off, heal a bit, head into the fray with like 26 heads. Even lacking healing, it can grow 16 heads and hit at twice that with Action Aurge for 32. Plus reaction attack for each head for 48. Of course, this is again unbounded due to how hydras function.Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.
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2021-01-18, 10:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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2021-01-18, 11:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
The sage advice compendium is not raw. It explicitly states that it is a compendium of Rulings . It merely confirms what I already stated, that this is not the intent of the text. However, let us review the selected texts once more.
Originally Posted by PHB 7Originally Posted by PHB 195Originally Posted by PHB 168
Your proposed answers violate the rules.
Tor's answer violates the RAW for Extra Attack and requires a RAF house ruling.
Max Wilson provided an answer that is acceptable.
So the best answer so far is 23 (Max Wilson), correct?
Build 1: V. Human Bladesinger 17/Echo Knight 3
Feats: Magic initiate or Spellsniper (Eldritch Blast), Eldritch Adept (Grasp Of Hadar), Metamagic Adept (Quicken Spell), Polearm Master, War Caster.
Setup: Have haste precast on you.
Action: Take attack action for 1 melee attack and 4 eldritch blasts, and unleash incarnation for 6 attacks. Action surge and repeat, for a total of 12 attacks. The first of these eldritch blasts will draw the target in for a reaction cast EB, for an additional 4 attacks. Bonus action cast Jim's Magic Missile IX for 11 more attacks, and take haste attack action for an additional attack. Total: 27 attacks.
Notes: If ruled that unleash incarnation can be used on the haste attack (It is my belief that haste is the specific rule in this case), it can go up to 28. If you wish to go with the RAI on PAM, replace PAM and War Caster with Martial Adept (Brace) for a reaction attack, bringing the total down to 24.
Build 2: Hexblade 1/Evoker 17/Fighter 2
It's a classic hexvoker, so it should be more than functional outside of the couple of specialized feats it takes.
Feats: Eldritch Adept (Grasp Of Hadar), Polearm Master, War Caster.
Precast Haste. Bonus action attack can come from Crown of Stars, Lizardfolk, or PAM (Haste attack action). Use hexblades curse a turn prior so that this combo deals actual damage.
Action: EB with Grasp Of hadar for 4 attacks. Take War Caster reaction cast to cast Jim's Magic Missile IX for 11 more attacks. Action Surge for Jim's Magic Missile VIII for 10 more attacks. Bonus action attack and haste attack for 2 more attacks. Total: 27 attacks.
Note: Without PAM, this is just a 23 attack build, the one Max put forth.
Build 3: V. Human Bladesinger 6/Echo Knight 11/Gloomstalker 3
Feats: Magic initiate or Spellsniper (Eldritch Blast), Eldritch Adept (Grasp Of Hadar), Metamagic Adept (Quicken Spell), Polearm Master, War Caster.
Setup: Have haste precast on you.
Action: Take attack action for 2 melee attacks and 4 eldritch blasts, and unleash incarnation and gloom stalkers extra attack for 8 attacks. Action surge and repeat, for a total of 16 attacks. The first of these eldritch blasts will draw the target in for a reaction cast EB, for an additional 4 attacks. Bonus action cast Jim's Magic Missile 4 for 6 more attacks, and take haste attack action for an additional attack. Total: 27 attacks.
Notes: If ruled that unleash incarnation can be used on the haste attack (It is my belief that haste is the specific rule in this case), it can go up to 28. If you wish to go with the RAI on PAM, replace PAM and War Caster with Martial Adept (Brace) for a reaction attack, bringing the total down to 24.
Three builds that surpass 23, and reach 27. Two of them can undeniably reach 24, by unambiguous, undebated RAW.
Edit: Had initially put fighting initiate instead of martial adept.Last edited by WaroftheCrans; 2021-01-19 at 07:58 AM.
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2021-01-18, 11:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
Unfortunately the clause is that you can't cast any leveled spells for the round if you cast any bonus action spell. I wish it were if you cast any leveled bonus action spell, and feel that wouldn't really break the balance, but alas.
Originally Posted by Rara1212
Originally Posted by Haste
I'm not quite sure how I feel about the shapechange one. It feels like it should fall into the same category as the summoning, but obviously it doesn't. It does require the most prep time (magic jar example can take place in a couple of rounds), and the caster has to make a large number of concentration checks, but a resilient con caster with a 20 in constitution should be able to make all of those.
I have yet to see a single shred of constructive input into this thread from you J. C., only a claim that you can do better, and nitpicking of builds.Last edited by WaroftheCrans; 2021-01-18 at 11:33 AM.
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2021-01-18, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-01-18, 06:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
Your contributions cannot be accepted as they violate the rules of 5e.
You are confusing "enter" with forced movement that can never produce opportunity attacks. Moreover, you ignore the Sage Advice Compendium which has resolved any ambiguity and officially ruled on this matter and officially has the force of errata and overrides the RAW should it need to (it doesn't need to in this matter as English speakers would not confuse "enter" with forced movement).Last edited by J.C.; 2021-01-18 at 06:24 PM.
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2021-01-18, 06:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
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2021-01-18, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
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2021-01-18, 06:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
Is it really so painful to read? Or are you just inept at reading comprehension? I addressed this anyway, but let me put it to you in a short and digestible post
Sage Advice Compendium does not officially have the force of errata. Errata has the force of errata. SAC is explicitly rulings. Rulings are not RAW.
Originally Posted by Definition of the word enter
As for contributions, I've contributed 4 builds, I proffered Jim's Magic Missile as a way of getting more attacks, and builds 1 and 3 get 24 attacks by unambiguous RAW, that requires no rulings in any direction, it's unilaterally correct. If you aren't going to read posts don't respond. .
It would appear you have nothing to contribute, so I'll stop asking you to contribute. However, I will once more ask that you not detract from the thread, if you can't contribute.
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2021-01-18, 07:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
I don't think it's useless if the OP hasn't said anything to that purpose since they started the thread in the first place.
Besides, what isn't legal to you could be legal to someone else- you can't really say that nobody is interested in what someone says without asking them.
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2021-01-18, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
I'm going to go down the avenue of the Samurai/Pure martial build. I believe you can get 22 attacks with a pure martial build, with no one being able to take an action in between.
Build: Samurai 18/Monk 2. Feats: Martial Adept (Trip attack), PAM
Setup: Enter the battle at 1 hp.
Action: Attack for 5 attacks. First attack should be a trip attack, knocking the target prone, and granting you advantage on all subsequent rolls. Advantage is converted to an attack.
Action surge for an additional 5 attacks. PAM bonus action.
Jump 10 feet in the air, and sprain your ankle. Because you nearly die, you take strength before death as your reaction.
Action: Action: Attack for 5 attacks. First attack should be a trip attack, knocking the target prone, and granting you advantage on all subsequent rolls. Advantage is converted to an attack.
Action surge for an additional 5 attacks. PAM bonus action.
Total: 22 attacks.
If only Tasha's had released a "Ki adept feat", so we could upgrade this to 24 with flurry of blows. If a friendly spellcaster chooses to haste you, or you take a potion of haste, you also get 24, but that's outside the parameters set by the challenge.
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2021-01-18, 07:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
On the contrary, I have a solution that produces 35 attacks and is perfectly legal and allowable by the rules. I will submit my solution to a thread that discriminates in favor of legal builds over illegal builds.
Some of the builds proposed violate the Extra Attack rule. Your proposed builds egregiously violate the rules for Opportunity Attacks.Last edited by J.C.; 2021-01-18 at 07:14 PM.
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2021-01-18, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
I'm not sure why I'm taking this bait, but I will.
First off, you're making a blanket statement about all of my submissions. As before, I encourage you to read the thread and look at my submissions. Secondly, other than the NI attacks mistake which I acknowledged (and for a different reason than you thought), I challenge you to prove that my submissions aren't legal in the rules. At this point I've made either 6 or 7, it shouldn't be hard to prove that half of them aren't legal, when you allege none of them are.
All of them reach at minimum 22 attacks, which was set forth in the OP. 4 of them reach the highest set forth so far.
Edit: A full half of my builds don't even use OA's. Read them first. This thread has proved that it knows what's legal and illegal so let's see this 35 attack build, and it had better not be summon or shapechange cheese.
Besides, if you've got a legal build that surpasses illegal builds, why not show it?Last edited by WaroftheCrans; 2021-01-18 at 07:20 PM.
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2021-01-18, 07:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
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2021-01-18, 07:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-01-18, 07:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2021-01-18, 07:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-01-18, 07:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-01-18, 07:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
True.
My solution comes out of actual Tier 4+ PvP and Battle Royale play where people have to abide by the rules and win against adversity. I definitely do not like that following the rules is not required in this thread apparently.
Hydra shenanigans can win this contest. But my solution has greater value. Getting max attacks is only one measure.
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2021-01-18, 07:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Most attacks vs 1 target in 1 turn: 22? Can anyone do better?
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2021-01-18, 07:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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