Ruling advice: lycanthropies

[msfnc]

Title is not a typo. Here’s the situation: DMing a game for kids (10-12 yo). The murderhobo Life Cleric decides to interject himself into an expository battle between wererats and werewolves. The party was meant to witness the small skirmish to introduce the Lycanthropes’ Turf war plot. But Rev. Leeroy Jenkins can’t just stand back and watch. In the course of the combat, he is bitten. By both werecreatures. Fails con save on both. He has contracted lycanthropy from both sources. He slays the wolf, the remaining rats scatter away. I made up some DMBS about the curse not taking hold until the next full moon, in order to buy myself some time to figure out how this is going to work. So, hivemind, what say you? Wereratwolf? Werewolfrat? Wolf on the full moon, rat on the new moon? Force him to cure the curse in-game?

[Amnestic]

If it were me, I'd make it one or the other, not a hybrid of both. Which bit him first? Could have that one be dominant - can't be afflicted when you're already cursed. Or could go the other way, the second bite is the dominant one because it took effect latest, and overrides the first curse.

But also he should be looking to cure the curse ASAP either way.

[supercereal]

Only one curse takes place, the first one to fail the save, or the one that rolled the lowest

[Unoriginal]

Title is not a typo. Here’s the situation: DMing a game for kids (10-12 yo). The murderhobo Life Cleric decides to interject himself into an expository battle between wererats and werewolves. The party was meant to witness the small skirmish to introduce the Lycanthropes’ Turf war plot. But Rev. Leeroy Jenkins can’t just stand back and watch. In the course of the combat, he is bitten. By both werecreatures. Fails con save on both. He has contracted lycanthropy from both sources. He slays the wolf, the remaining rats scatter away. I made up some DMBS about the curse not taking hold until the next full moon, in order to buy myself some time to figure out how this is going to work. So, hivemind, what say you? Wereratwolf? Werewolfrat? Wolf on the full moon, rat on the new moon? Force him to cure the curse in-game?

Who was the one to bite the Cleric first?

[Segev]

Title is not a typo. Here’s the situation: DMing a game for kids (10-12 yo). The murderhobo Life Cleric decides to interject himself into an expository battle between wererats and werewolves. The party was meant to witness the small skirmish to introduce the Lycanthropes’ Turf war plot. But Rev. Leeroy Jenkins can’t just stand back and watch. In the course of the combat, he is bitten. By both werecreatures. Fails con save on both. He has contracted lycanthropy from both sources. He slays the wolf, the remaining rats scatter away. I made up some DMBS about the curse not taking hold until the next full moon, in order to buy myself some time to figure out how this is going to work. So, hivemind, what say you? Wereratwolf? Werewolfrat? Wolf on the full moon, rat on the new moon? Force him to cure the curse in-game?

I do not believe lycanthropes are vulnerable, by default, to contracting a new lycanthropic curse. So whichever bit him first "wins," here, I think. Alternatively, you could say they overwrite, so whichever was second. If you think "both" is cool, going with wolf on the full moon and rat on the new moon could be fun and amusing. Though do you want to establish, given that this turf war is a big deal for your plot, that they cycle on opposite moon phases? If so, that's good; if not, that's bad.

Lycanthropy, if they have control over it, is a Legendary Magic Item in terms of how powerful a boon it is, given the immunity to nonmagical weapon attacks. (Compare to Armor of Invulnerability, which is also Legendary and only grants resistance except for 10 minutes/day.) If they lack control, then playing up the curse's problems, dangers, and inconveniences might bring the passive benefits down to Very Rare value. Maybe. It'll depend on how much your enemies use non-magic weaponry and non-silvered weaponry.

I would let them keep it and struggle to either remove it or to get control over it, with the former available earlier but perhaps with greater effort and the latter scheduled for when you'd be comfortable giving them a legendary magic item. They can pick which path to go with. I'd also make it take one of their atunement slots.

[Teklese]

To be honest with this be for kids (10-12) I would make the two cancel each other out. Perhaps make him very sick and give him a minus to his con score either temp or permanent if you want to teach them to be careful. The reason being they might not be able to understand the ramifications of the lycanthropy. What I mean is if they were to keep it I would make them roll a save when they change to keep control of the beast inside. Perhaps a wis or con? Anyway the point is on a fail the beast would attack those around possible killing npc's or party members. This could lead to conflict with the group, even adults can have issues with these type of things. Also if you give this person a something cool from it like most kids would see it as then the others might go out of there way to also get it and that could mess with your story.

As always you know your group better then any of us do so its your call.

[Dr. Cliché]

Personally, I'd have him turn into a grotesque, malformed wolf-rat-human hybrid.

But then, I lean more towards dark/horror stories and plot elements, so I'm probably not the default.

[Aett_Thorn]

You could always add a bit of RP here if you want. Present the character with choices between things like raw meat or bad cheese to eat, and see which one they take. Does the character fight or run away from a certain situation? Things like that.

The choices they make indicate which curse is taking over them.

[Greywander]

Personally, I'd have him turn into a grotesque, malformed wolf-rat-human hybrid.

And then attack the party, who have to put him down. I hope they have silvered weapons or this will probably be a TPK.

Okay, maybe not. I suppose it depends on how much of a bad thing you want this to be. If the player retains total control, then they're now much stronger as a reward for doing something stupid. If you just make the character instantly become an NPC, then that might feel unfair.

Personally, I think the good middle ground is to treat it like the double-edged sword that it is: you can reap the benefits but if you lose control and aren't properly restrained then those benefits will turn against you. IIRC, lycanthropes (at least, the ones that are turned, not the natural-born ones) will transform involuntarily every full moon, so one night a month. During this time, they become raging murder machines and will kill anything and anyone that crosses their path. If you take the proper precautions, you can possibly keep them restrained the entire time, just make sure you don't forget and don't get caught somewhere where you have nothing to restrain them with.

[Keravath]

From a rules perspective ... since I don't think a lycanthrope can be cursed with another form of lycanthropy, then whichever bit him first is the kind he would become.

However, it is supposed to be a bad thing, a terrible thing, an evil thing to become a lycanthrope of one of those types.

Running a kids game, I wouldn't want to even give them the option to consider becoming a lycanthrope since it would be hard to role play properly and can make them mechanically a lot stronger than the rest in combat especially at low levels. The social negatives and the fact that everyone else will hunt you down and kill you because you can't resist killing and eating people at the full moon is supposed to drive folks to get cured but the themes are difficult for adults let alone kids.

As a result, I'd consider narrating any number of possible other outcomes ...

- if the character doesn't appear interested in curing it ... then the character suffers terribly (describe it graphically in terms of pain, fever, vomiting - anything gross that could cause the player to empathize) and an NPC cleric (assuming the PC isn't 5th level) offers to cure them. If they wonder why other creatures don't seem to go through this you can blame the mixing strains of the curse fighting over his system with the most likely outcome being death before one of the curses wins out.

- alternatively, if the player motivates a cure plot line then use it for them to find an appropriate NPC with remove curse.

In either case, especially with a group this age, I would make sure that one of the characters doesn't become a lycantrope - I don't think it would go well.

[Segev]

One thing to consider, even if you a) don't make him one or b) make him one but let him more or less retain control, is to have at some point a plot line where it's obvious a lycanthrope is murdering or otherwise terrorizing people, and make it look like it might be this PC's cursed form doing it without his knowledge. Of course, again, this is something you should do with care, and knowing your players.

[da newt]

This is a teaching moment - a murder hobo of a 10-12 yr old ought to come away from this having learned something because there are consequences for our actions / decisions.

I'd be tempted to go w/ Rat over Wolf because Wererats are LE little turds and who wants to be one of those?

I'd have a look at the Cleric's Deity, subclass, alignment, etc and how that all will go along with the curse of lycanthropy. Perhaps they ought to receive a message from their Deity condemning this turn of events, and commanding them to get it cured before they do unforgivable things.

I'd also ensure I offered a path to a cure.

But you know these kids better than we do - maybe having your Cleric turn into a LE ratboy and cause problems for the party all the time is just the thing ...

MM pg 207 has the written rules for this.