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Thread: WandaVision

  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Okay, I'm not reading the whole thread, but after two episodes it seems pretty obvious to me that the whole TV sitcoms thing is clearly a facade to cover what's actually going on in the plot of the series. There are already signs of this facade beginning to unravel.

    Now this might be some kind of protective false reality that Wanda has created to cope with the fallout of losing Vision, or it might be an external villain at work trying to trick her (or maybe both), but for now she's invested in keeping the lie alive. Eventually she'll have to face reality, but there will probably be multiple levels of the illusion to get through first. We've already seen that first level and moved on to the second.

    I don't see how anyone can watch the first episode and not see that the sitcom environment is nothing more than a plot device to tell the story of what's really going on with Wanda and/or Vision in the "real world". I expect that Wanda will keep altering the illusory reality of her sitcom life until the evidence that something is amiss becomes impossible to ignore or cover up. We probably won't get answers to what's really happening until then.
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  2. - Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    The villain of the series

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  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Originally Posted by Ramza00
    The villain of the series....
    There's a face I haven't seen in a very long time.

    Can't say I've missed him, but very apt even so.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    I doubt we have enough info yet to really pinpoint what's happening. No surprise if one of the guesses so far in this thread is correct, but I reckon they're seeding some ideas to that there's a bigger surprise when we learn the truth. Though the truth is probably partially including the seeds.

    Spoiler: my thoughts
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    Seems likely Wanda is controlling things semi-subconsciously, based on the "No" and rewind to the beekeeper-dude near the end of Episode 2.

    But guessing it's not all her. E.g., something happened to make him need/want to 'escape', and it seems boring if it's just her freaking out about Vision still being dead. So reckon some villain doing a psychic attack and this is her defense.


    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    There's a face I haven't seen in a very long time.

    Can't say I've missed him, but very apt even so.
    While a funny idea, I doubt it as he's mainly an X-Men villain.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    The villain of the series

    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    There's a face I haven't seen in a very long time.

    Can't say I've missed him, but very apt even so.
    Ehhhhhh...

    Spoiler
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    While "evil TV show" is certainly Mojo's oeuvre, this particular genre is not his style. If he were to show up in the MCU, I would envision him being used to comment on something a lot more topical and less subtle than what we're seeing here - e.g. reality TV, a "shock jock personality" type of work in the Joe Rogan/Alex Jones vein, or even meta-commentary on modern TV/streaming like Netflix and D+ themselves. Everything about the retro Susie Homemaker sitcom we're being shown seems designed for Wanda's own benefit, not some hypothetical alien audience whose ratings Mojo would be attempting to capture, and for the most part we only care largely because we're already invested in her character (and Vision's.)

    That plus him being traditionally an X-Men villain, along with the "show" so clearly pulling key details from Wanda's own subconscious that would only really be relevant to her rather than said alien audience (like the Stark/Strucker commercials) makes me highly doubt his involvement here.


    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I doubt we have enough info yet to really pinpoint what's happening. No surprise if one of the guesses so far in this thread is correct, but I reckon they're seeding some ideas to that there's a bigger surprise when we learn the truth. Though the truth is probably partially including the seeds.

    Spoiler: my thoughts
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    Seems likely Wanda is controlling things semi-subconsciously, based on the "No" and rewind to the beekeeper-dude near the end of Episode 2.

    But guessing it's not all her. E.g., something happened to make him need/want to 'escape', and it seems boring if it's just her freaking out about Vision still being dead. So reckon some villain doing a psychic attack and this is her defense.
    Theory for what is going on based on the comics:

    Spoiler
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    Nosy neighbor Agnes is theorized to be Agatha Harkness, a witch that helped train Wanda in the earlier comics. They changed what was going on here a couple of times retroactively, but the most well-known version is that Agatha is working for Mephisto, who basically wants Wanda to get knocked up so that her magically- and superscientifically-conceived twins (who later become the heroes Wiccan and Speed) could serve as, among other things, his horcruxes.

    So far we've seen no signs of Mephisto (and I'm hoping they don't go that route specifically as he's not a particularly interesting Marvel villain imo) - but Agnes herself and even the whole town's mantra of "For The Children" seem geared at getting Wanda to shack up. So my guess is they're keeping the whole "Untrustworthy and possibly evil witch is feeding Wanda's delusions so that she stays trapped and gets pregnant by an entity born of an infinity stone, and plans to use the resulting offspring in some way" angle, but change who the ultimate villain is going to be - perhaps the villain of Doctor Strange 2, perhaps Dormammu, perhaps Agatha herself, or any number of the evil spellcasters and extraplanar entities knocking around Marvel who could be powering Agatha.

    As far as Wanda controlling the microcosm herself - it's true that the "No" + rewind was most likely her, as well as making Vision's boss choke when the questions got too pointed. But it's noteworthy that Agnes was the one to distract her from the helicopter toy too, and she at least knows that Vision is dead in the trailer. So put me down for "Wanda crafted this universe to protect her mind, but is being manipulated into maintaining it and forgetting everything else."
    Last edited by Psyren; 2021-01-20 at 11:46 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    The villain of the series

    Spoiler
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    Obviously

    Spoiler
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    Obviously the Mojo thing is a joke here, I am saying there are some many characters it could be as the Villian, literally half a dozen good candidates, maybe even 12 good candidates. And once we are at such a large list why not just make it 30 candidates or something.

    Plus my joke post got me to use an image that said "PERFECT! PERFECT! BEST PILOT EPISODE EVER!
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  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    As already addressed, it isn't. We're in media res, sharing the confusion that Wanda and Vision face as the trappings erode.



    Without spoiling, my wife and I believe we have already seen...evolution?...in the first two episodes. As has been mentioned, the "schtick" is pulling from multiple sources and it feels very much to us like the sources have already moved forward in a timeline. Note the wardrobe choices and the general presentation style. Now I want to rewatch specifically for the vehicles. Their car in the open was definitely 50s, and I think early 50s. See also Spoiler element #1.

    Spoiler: Specific references
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    1. Pushing the beds together seems a particularly intentional sequence, strongly suggesting to me moving forward in TV era
    2. Color transition will fit in perfectly with that theme as well

      On the hexagons and bees:
    3. I originally thought the hexagon motif was, well, a hex motif, because that was the naming convention used for her powers in the 70s/80s. The Scarlet Witch hexed things...does that play with the beekeeper? They don't have to be linked, but it makes sense if they are, so now I'm leaning more towards it being a hexagon and not a hex reference.
    4. The beekeeper could be a debugging sort of thing...but I thought of Hive. Had to review, and it appears he is a Stucker creation. Still a possibility for MCU as he may have made Hive before AoU, or he may have Still, that's more an amalgam of people as opposed to a bee-inspired character, so not sure.

      Symbols
    5. The symbol on the helicopter also made me think of SWORD immediately...and while the symbol isn't a perfect fit, it seems similar and kinda looks like the Peak to me. Fits well with our last teaser of Fury and the expectation that we'll see more of the universe in coming MCU films.
    6. Stark and Strucker commercials - not sure how many casual fans will understand the Strucker reference, but everyone will get the Stark nod. We need a third, though, to start being able to speculate because these two are effectively Vision and Wanda's "creators".

      Other
    7. Vision's boss - his intense, angry reaction and interrogation about why Wanda and Vis came to that place really stands out to me. Kitty stays sort of in character, but the Boss departs from what was shown us as the norm, and then gets "rebooted"(?) by choking and then being rescued by Vision. Was this an avatar temporarily controlled by an active person, a glitching NPC or something else?



    - M
    Thanks for this - a lot of stuff that I saw wasn't being mentioned here until I got to your post.
    Spoiler: Am I imagining something?
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    Didn't the entire house change between episodes 1 and 2? We watched them about 5 days apart, but I thought that it was effectively a different place, updated for a late 60s aesthetic after the 50s vibe from the first one. I fully expect a 70s vibe in the third episode.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Credence View Post
    Thanks for this - a lot of stuff that I saw wasn't being mentioned here until I got to your post.
    Spoiler: Am I imagining something?
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    Didn't the entire house change between episodes 1 and 2? We watched them about 5 days apart, but I thought that it was effectively a different place, updated for a late 60s aesthetic after the 50s vibe from the first one. I fully expect a 70s vibe in the third episode.
    Yes

    Spoiler
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    Besides different furniture, the house itself changes.

    The color of the main doors are different between episode 1 and 2. On both sides of the front door the "inside" side and the "outside" side when we see it opened and when you see Wanda go outside to look at the helicopter in episode 2.

    There seems to be a step from the front door to the living room in episode 1. The kitchen doors are different with episode 1 and 2, with episode 2 having "saloon" doors going into the kitchen and we see the 4th wall location (where it would be with episode 1) but in episode 1 the kitchen had a traditional door to enter the kitchen. Both episodes have kitchen shutters and a bar area, but the shutters are open in episode 2 so we can't tell if they are the same style or not.

    Episode 2 has a prominent staircase that I do not recall in episode 1 and so on. In a marvel featurette / teaser released on the 15th of January we see some of the future color scenes and there is a staircase but it is a very different staircase than before.



    To my sense and sensibilities I think the designs of these shows are going to change not just the color of the insides of the house with what furniture the episodes have, what colors the wall have, but literally the actual structure of the house all with the goal to trigger nostalgia for specific tv sets in different shows. I hope we get a Frasier tv set but I seriously doubt that
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  9. - Top - End - #69
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    One comics reference I wasn't sure was mentioned yet:

    Herb (played by David Payton), a member or possibly head of the cul-de-sac's neighborhood watch in episode 2,

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    could secretly be short for Herbert Edgar Wyndham, aka the High Evolutionary, who has at various times been a villain for the X-Men and the Avengers. Notably, he was involved with the initial origin story for Wanda herself, having been instrumental to the twins' upbringing in eastern Europe by a travelling Romani family, the Maximoffs. If that's the case, his presence here is almost certainly a means of keeping tabs on his wayward ward, and if she's truly pregnant he would likely be keen on monitoring that too. This guy is probably the Marvel character most focused on gene tampering and eugenics next to Mr. Sinister himself, and some of his personal interest in Wanda may be coming over from the comics too if that's him.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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  10. - Top - End - #70
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    A hope of how the series will end, that will have MASSIVE SPOILERS based off casting for we know this actor is going to be in the show but the actor has not been seen in the first two episodes.

    Spoiler: MASSIVE SPOILERS, one of the cast members of WandaVISION
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    So Evan Peters, the actor who played QuickSilver in the Fox version of X-Men.

    He is going to be in WandaVISION. I expect the most likely thing is he is going to be a trauma tv commercial where Evan Peters dies instead of the age of ultron actor
    Aaron Taylor-Johnson.

    But hear me out! What if Evan Peters is Mephisto and he is appearing as a Quicksilver like figure to make a deal with the devil, except it is not Wanda's Quicksilver and thus there is an uncanny valley feeling. What if Evan is there to say do what I want and I can make you happy and we can warp reality together or something?

    [ What I am saying is I hope we go really into the horror like a Twilight Zone miniseries in this 9 episode thingee ]
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  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    A hope of how the series will end, that will have MASSIVE SPOILERS based off casting for we know this actor is going to be in the show but the actor has not been seen in the first two episodes.

    Spoiler: MASSIVE SPOILERS, one of the cast members of WandaVISION
    Show

    So Evan Peters, the actor who played QuickSilver in the Fox version of X-Men.

    He is going to be in WandaVISION. I expect the most likely thing is he is going to be a trauma tv commercial where Evan Peters dies instead of the age of ultron actor
    Aaron Taylor-Johnson.

    But hear me out! What if Evan Peters is Mephisto and he is appearing as a Quicksilver like figure to make a deal with the devil, except it is not Wanda's Quicksilver and thus there is an uncanny valley feeling. What if Evan is there to say do what I want and I can make you happy and we can warp reality together or something?

    [ What I am saying is I hope we go really into the horror like a Twilight Zone miniseries in this 9 episode thingee ]
    Spoiler
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    First, I'm totally down for playing around with two Quicksilvers - particularly since we know Wanda is approaching a multiverse story anyway and they've been actively teasing the multiverse = multiple actors thing with Spiderman. Even DC had success with this approach via the Crisis event in their CW-verse.

    Again though, I really, really hope Mephisto isn't behind all this. Of all the comic book villains they could use for this show, he is perhaps the most "comicbook" of them all, a monkey's paw genie character that writers usually take down from the shelf to very hamfistedly change or add to the canon in ways they're too rushed, lazy, or unimaginative to do in a more organic way. (See also *shudder* One More Day, and DS17). No real goals of his own beyond EVULZ, no interesting backstory, he's just the space devil who shows up to screw with the heroes sometimes and that's it.

    With that said, if they do end up using him in the MCU, I have to admit it would be a fairly believable way to introduce some of the other stuff they've been teasing, like Marvel Zombies and a whole pile of vampires appearing in the world for Blade to chop up. There aren't many other Marvel villains I can think of with both the power and the cultural prominence to pull off world-changing events like that. If Mephisto decides the MCU needs a zombie apocalypse you don't have to spend 45 minutes of movie setting that up - they just have to say "hey, he's an archdemon, now the heroes can go punch stuff."

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  12. - Top - End - #72
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    Spoilers that are not about WandaVISION but greater MCU stuff I have heard that are RUMORS.

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    A rumor I have heard, which I have no sources for.

    But Mahershala Ali 's agent called up Kevin Feige saying he wanted to be in the MCU and he wanted to do Blade and Feige said yes. You do not turn down Ali after all for he is a rising star and he can make the character work and part of playing in a big sandbox is you figure out how to be additive when people suggest things that were not part of your original plans.

    Feige in 2019 said the Blade thing is a later production and is going to be in the Part 5 of the MCU and not the Part 4 stuff. Marvel is going to "make things work" but it was not part of the original plan.

    I do not care if this rumor is true or not (though the Part 5 stuff we are relatively certain for Feige said such a thing in interviews) I am glad Blade is coming to the MCU but that is my nostalgia talking for I adored the first movie 20+ years ago even if I am meh on movie 2, 3, and the tv series.
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  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by theNater View Post
    Spoiler: My Spoiler Guess
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    I think it's aliens. Some alien is trying to burrow into Wanda's mind, and the sitcoms are Wanda's defense mechanism-a pleasant fantasy she can hide in. The commercials would then indicate their progress in reading her mind; they're already up to AoU.

    Evidence is, admittedly, minimal: Episode 1's "my wife and her flying saucers" stuck out to me, as flying saucers are not typically associated with Scarlet Witch. Episode 2 had "I mean you no harm", which reads as an alien interaction to me(I'd expect "hurt" instead of "harm" between humans). Then there's the insignia on the helicopter and the beekeeper. It appears to include a sword, which could indicate that SWORD(SHIELD's anti-alien counterpart) are in the area.
    So I've fleshed out this guess a bit over the week, and want to get the full version down before the next episode comes out so everybody can laugh at how wrong I am.
    Spoiler
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    The alien in question came to Earth by accident, and is confused and disoriented. This confusion is made worse by being in Wanda's fantasy world, and is why the townsfolk cast in antagonistic roles(Mr. Hart from episode 1, Dottie from episode 2) get as irritated and aggressive as they do. The choking and cut hand are instinctive counters by Wanda against the increased burrow intensity, and could actually prove fatal to the alien if Wanda let them.

    The agency with the insignia is a bunch of humans who are trying to help Wanda, but due to lacking psychic talent, their intrusions into the fantasy world are so clumsy that they are instead driving Wanda deeper down. The alien, on the other hand, is passively dangerous or actively malevolent, and its obsession with children indicates that the children are going to be a threat to Wanda in some way.

    In the most extreme case, the alien is something like the Brood, and the children will, if allowed to grow, take over Wanda's body in the real world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theNater View Post
    So I've fleshed out this guess a bit over the week, and want to get the full version down before the next episode comes out so everybody can laugh at how wrong I am.
    Spoiler
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    The alien in question came to Earth by accident, and is confused and disoriented. This confusion is made worse by being in Wanda's fantasy world, and is why the townsfolk cast in antagonistic roles(Mr. Hart from episode 1, Dottie from episode 2) get as irritated and aggressive as they do. The choking and cut hand are instinctive counters by Wanda against the increased burrow intensity, and could actually prove fatal to the alien if Wanda let them.

    The agency with the insignia is a bunch of humans who are trying to help Wanda, but due to lacking psychic talent, their intrusions into the fantasy world are so clumsy that they are instead driving Wanda deeper down. The alien, on the other hand, is passively dangerous or actively malevolent, and its obsession with children indicates that the children are going to be a threat to Wanda in some way.

    In the most extreme case, the alien is something like the Brood, and the children will, if allowed to grow, take over Wanda's body in the real world.
    I agree with the oddness of the "saucer" line, but
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    MCU's SWORD is not the same as comics SWORD; the "W" seems to have been intentionally changed from World to Weapon, which they wouldn't have needed to do if it was still intended to be an alien-focused SHIELD.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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  15. - Top - End - #75
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    So, new episode.

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    Urf.

    Most of this was MCU meets Call the Midwife, but at least we have a hint of what’s going on. Apparently Westview is a physical location rather than entirely in Wanda’s mind? And Geraldine was sent in to make contact?

    Presumably she’s working for SWORD, so now I’m wondering if Jimmy Woo made a lateral move to that organization, perhaps owing to his experience chasing superheroes. Open question as to whether Darcy also works for SWORD, since I can't see her as someone especially focused on either science or law enforcement. Maybe she'll be a link to Love and Thunder?

    In the meantime...Wanda has taken over a town? Created a town? Or the town is being operated by the villains, and Geraldine’s unceremonious ejection by Wanda has led to her capture by said villains? I know this is the mystery we’re supposed to watch unfold, but I just don’t find it that compelling yet.

    Also, does anyone know what language Wanda was singing in? Given her history I would expect it to be Sokovian, but I don’t know if the MCU would work up a conlang for a few lines of song.
    Last edited by Palanan; 2021-01-22 at 10:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Also, does anyone know what language Wanda was singing in? Given her history I would expect it to be Sokovian, but I don’t know if the MCU would work up a conlang for a few lines of song.[/SPOILER]
    Spoiler: Sokovian?
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    I'd also like to know. They did order a conlang for the dark elves in Thor 2, and I would say that having a Sokovian language would be more worthwile than that. Not just for this series, but Zemo is also set to appear in the Bucky and Falcon series.
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    Originally Posted by Clertar
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    They did order a conlang for the dark elves in Thor 2, and I would say that having a Sokovian language would be more worthwile than that.
    Spoiler
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    True, but there was a lot more dialogue between the dark elves, probably a couple of pages all told. For just a couple lines in one episode of a web series, I dunno.

    On the other hand, Disney is apparently flinging money at this series, and a basic conlang shouldn't be too expensive.

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    RE: Language
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    The closed captions say "singing in Sokovian" so that answers that.

    Sidenote: Disney+ has a tendency to put spoilers/plot developments in its closed-captions for those who care about such (either picking up on hidden details, or avoiding them). For example, Mandalorian referring to Boba Fett by his name before it was used in the show.


    RE: Westview
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    It's almost certainly a pre-existing physical place. The sign is visible outside of the "bubble," and Herb's glitching-NPC behavior - cutting the hedge so much that he chops the wall between their houses - coupled with his nervousness around Vision suggests that he's being controlled.


    RE: Hexagons
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    We have a plausible explanation for these now too, one that I should have remembered - the villainous Marvel organization AIM's logo is a blank hexagon. We know AIM exists in the MCU thanks to Iron Man 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    RE: Hexagons
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    We have a plausible explanation for these now too, one that I should have remembered - the villainous Marvel organization AIM's logo is a blank hexagon. We know AIM exists in the MCU thanks to Iron Man 3.
    Spoiler
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    I'm starting to come around to the idea that AIM may be the actual villains of the show, or at least the cause of the Fantasy World. I think they lured Wanda to Westview for some Nefarious Reason (brainwashing, studying her to duplicate her powers, etc.) and tried to trap her in a idyllic Lotus Eater Machine hologram to get her to willingly cooperate with them (think Chapter 59 of Gunnerkrigg Court), but under-estimated Wanda's mental abilities and she turned the simulation against AIM, but Wanda decided to remain in the simulation to avoid dealing with her grief and the real world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    RE: Hexagons
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    We have a plausible explanation for these now too, one that I should have remembered - the villainous Marvel organization AIM's logo is a blank hexagon. We know AIM exists in the MCU thanks to Iron Man 3.
    And has been mentioned upstream...
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    The beekeeper suit sure looks like the standard issue AIM flunky outfit, SWORD logo not withstanding
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  21. - Top - End - #81
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Well, episode 3 mostly adds questions.
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    What is the nature of the townsfolk? I had assumed that they were just mental constructs, but this episode suggests they may be real people. (I'm still 90% sure Vision and the babies are constructs.) Are they deliberately putting on a performance? Are they forced to? When Geraldine asked about Ultron, it looked to me like she was shaking off mind control, but I suppose she could have just been breaking character.

    Also, given that Westview seems to be a physical place, what would happen if somebody just walked across the boundary? I assume that's how Geraldine and the beekeeper got in, but would the people who started inside be able to leave, or have space warp around them so they get turned around, or be forced back by mysterious circumstances, or what?

    And last but not least, how aware is Wanda of what's going on? Is she mostly tricked, or is she just indulging in the fantasy?

    It was also during the third episode I spotted a couple of minor things, technically noticeable from the first episode, that may or may not be meaningful.
    Spoiler: Minor Things
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    1) WandaVision is set in WestView.

    2)The end credits include those colored shards. They're mostly red, Wanda's color, but there's some green and blue in there as well. (RGB color theory, yes, but possibly more.) The biggest concentration of green is a cowl similar to something Vision has often worn in comics, which makes me think the green ones might represent Vision. Recent review of Age of Ultron material reminded me that Pietro was always wearing blue in that move, so I'm thinking the blue might represent him. Which may make the blue blankets for the babies interesting.

    The reason this jumped out at me is that at one point we get a view of three shards falling together, one of each color, then there's a little glitch and they all become red. Anybody think that might mean anything?

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Psyren's Avatar

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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Quote Originally Posted by theNater View Post
    Spoiler: constructs
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    (I'm still 90% sure Vision and the babies are constructs.) Are they deliberately putting on a performance? Are they forced to? When Geraldine asked about Ultron, it looked to me like she was shaking off mind control, but I suppose she could have just been breaking character.
    Given that the trailer shows her
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    in what is clearly the real world (full color, 16:9 aspect ratio) reconstructing the Mind Stone - followed by being bathed in its energy - I believe that is really Vision and not a fake. Not to mention that he by all accounts appears to be a real and actualized person in his own right. If he was merely a construct of her mind, he would likely be slightly off - doing little beyond doting on her and being unquestioning of the strange reality they're in, instead of using his extremely analytical mind to constantly poke at the edges. ("Tell me, what does our company actually do?" "How does the neighborhood watch work?" "How the heck could you gestate so quickly?" etc.)

    Of course though, bringing him back to life needs to have heavy narrative consequences so that it's not something she's willing to do repeatedly, lest they play havoc with the stakes in any future MCU properties.

    As for the other townsfolk, I think they're real too - but that doesn't mean that they're all victims/not "in on it." My guess is that most are bystanders forced to play a role, but a handful (like Agnes and Herb) know more than they're letting on.


    Quote Originally Posted by theNater View Post
    Spoiler: Boundary
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    Also, given that Westview seems to be a physical place, what would happen if somebody just walked across the boundary? I assume that's how Geraldine and the beekeeper got in, but would the people who started inside be able to leave, or have space warp around them so they get turned around, or be forced back by mysterious circumstances, or what?
    I imagine that simply walking across the border is all it takes.
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    "Geraldine" is almost certainly a SWORD agent based on her pendant (and based on what we know of her true identity), but she appears to be well and truly caught up in the fantasy. My guess is that "breaking character" was unconscious on her part, and that she truly doesn't remember anything from outside beyond bits and pieces. Beekeeper meanwhile may have been sufficiently shielded to not be, but Wanda was still able to blink back the intrusion.


    Quote Originally Posted by theNater View Post
    Spoiler: Fantasy
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    And last but not least, how aware is Wanda of what's going on? Is she mostly tricked, or is she just indulging in the fantasy?
    I'd go with both.
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    She has to be indulging to some extent, because she does have some degree of control, but that isn't mutually exclusive with her being manipulated - much like the comic this series is based on.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
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  23. - Top - End - #83
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Originally Posted by theNater
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    Also, given that Westview seems to be a physical place, what would happen if somebody just walked across the boundary?
    Spoiler
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    I think there may be something force-effectey about the boundary, which Wanda may be sustaining (or have been tricked into sustaining). Geraldine was ejected through the boundary because Wanda wanted her gone, but that was a deliberate choice on Wanda’s part, so she may have some degree of control over access.

    I find it interesting that the Beekeeper was coming up through a manhole, which might suggest someone trying to get in for recon underneath the barrier. But it could just as easily have been a symbol of someone or something coming up from Wanda’s subconscious.

  24. - Top - End - #84
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Ramza00's Avatar

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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Spoiler: Responding to Palanan
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    We see the exact same street with the same angle 📐 earlier in the episode. There was no manhole then.
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  25. - Top - End - #85
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Btw, i just have to say how much I absolutely love David Lengel. His face is so adorable doofus

  26. - Top - End - #86
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Originally Posted by Ramza00
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    We see the exact same street with the same angle 📐 earlier in the episode. There was no manhole then.
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    Well, just a notion.

    I'm also wondering how the Beekeeper can be AIM when he has a SWORD logo on his back. Unless this is another Hydra-within-S.H.I.E.L.D. situation.
    Last edited by Palanan; 2021-01-24 at 07:17 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #87
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: WandaVision

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    Why does AIM have to be involved? Why can't it be just SWORD?

  28. - Top - End - #88
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: WandaVision

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    I agree in principle, but there's some speculation that the hexagon motif is a reference to AIM.

    Not entirely convinced myself, but we'll see.

  29. - Top - End - #89
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
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    Why does AIM have to be involved? Why can't it be just SWORD?
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    It might not be. I had the thought that the ‘beekeeper’ costume might actually be intended as a hazmat suit - the big hole in this theory is that based on a quick Google search the 1960’s version of same has the big glass lenses over the eyes and the tube from the mouth. But as Mr. Beekeeper is presumably coming from outside the sitcom bubble, that may not be a requirement.

    Full disclosure, I don’t follow the comics much so if there are hints being sprinkled about that require comics knowledge I’m probably going to miss them.

  30. - Top - End - #90
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Mordar's Avatar

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    Default Re: WandaVision

    I agree with Psyren...

    Spoiler: About what?
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    That Vision is a real boy. Android. Whatever. He is a construct, but not just in Wanda's mind. He acts independently, sees and knows things Wanda doesn't and appears to exist outside her direct attention. Sure, all of that could be just to fool us, but I think he's going to be back to stay.


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