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Thread: WandaVision

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default WandaVision

    So, first two episodes are out.



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    And I had to force myself to get through them.

    I can understand they’d want to distinguish this from, say, Falcon & Winter Soldier, but how they went about it is…odd, to use one of Vision’s first words.

    I’m not sure why they chose the 50s sitcom approach, but so far this is one of those shows the actors probably had more fun in making than I did in watching. The first episode in particular was such a lovingly spot-on sendup that it was grating for me to get through. The music, the laugh track, the goofy sound effects, all of it.

    Evidently the commercials are meant to give us clues, and if so the Strucker watch was a little overt. I was assuming that at some point, we’d get around to Wanda being held captive and experimented on…but now I’m wondering who’s left in Hydra to do any captivating, given how defunct they seem to be after Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

    So I’m wondering if this is some mindworm implanted in Wanda’s psyche while she was undergoing the process of enhancement, and which has now activated for some reason or another—maybe as simple as retreating from the trauma of Vision’s death, or for some more involved superheroic cause.

    Either way, getting there may be a bit of a slog. Sticking with it for now, but other than watching two well-paid people having fun on set, can’t say I’m enjoying it much thus far.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I’m not sure why they chose the 50s sitcom approach
    I think it is an attempt to capture the same vibe as The Stepford Wives, or possibly Pleasantville. A perfectly lovely 1950s-60s, sitcom-sanitized version of the world (in Wandavision's case also free of real world racial disparity, etc.) is kind of an iconic mental retreat.
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    :If it isn't Hydra, it could be Wanda herself, as an allusion to her House of M reality re-writing.
    Last edited by Willie the Duck; 2021-01-15 at 09:26 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Which raises a question that's a pertinent loose end from Endgame:

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    At the end of Endgame, Steve Rogers jumps back to restore all the Infinity Stones to where and when they'd been, pre-Thanos.

    What happened to the Mindstone? If he restored all the stones, shouldn't that one have returned to Vision, pre-Thanos?

    This may have been explained away in the movie, but drawing a blank on it now.

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Which raises a question that's a pertinent loose end from Endgame:

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    At the end of Endgame, Steve Rogers jumps back to restore all the Infinity Stones to where and when they'd been, pre-Thanos.

    What happened to the Mindstone? If he restored all the stones, shouldn't that one have returned to Vision, pre-Thanos?

    This may have been explained away in the movie, but drawing a blank on it now.
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    He didn't steal the stone from vision, He stole it from Hydra/Shield So when he returned the stone he returned it to them.
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    I think it is an attempt to capture the same vibe as The Stepford Wives, or possibly Pleasantville. A perfectly lovely 1950s-60s, sitcom-sanitized version of the world (in Wandavision's case also free of real world racial disparity, etc.) is kind of an iconic mental retreat.
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    :If it isn't Hydra, it could be Wanda herself, as an illusion to her House of M reality re-writing.
    Like Stepford Wives, I suspect the idea is that we're going to start out disgustingly wholesome and then see some serious mental breakdown, and much like the marvel movies themselves, take on a much darker tone.

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    Using Wandas mental breakdown and ability to actually alter reality would be a great way to segue into House of M, and then bring mutants into the greater MCU. Considering we already have "origin stories" for most of the relevant mutantverse, it would be interesting to just dive right into "mutants are a thing" with something like House of M out of nowhere and some of the subsequent "restoring the mutants" plotlines to fill in various character-specific stories. Going with "the MCU that we've seen is actually the world after House of M and its fallout" would be an interesting way to justify the suspicious lack of mutants, and then their sudden inclusion.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Which raises a question that's a pertinent loose end from Endgame:

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    At the end of Endgame, Steve Rogers jumps back to restore all the Infinity Stones to where and when they'd been, pre-Thanos.

    What happened to the Mindstone? If he restored all the stones, shouldn't that one have returned to Vision, pre-Thanos?

    This may have been explained away in the movie, but drawing a blank on it now.
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    Mind stone was in Loki’s scepter when they grabbed it in Endgame.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    So outside of "spoilers in every post"-town...is it worth watching?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    So outside of "spoilers in every post"-town...is it worth watching?
    I had a good time, but I can see how it wouldn't be everybody's cup of tea. These first two episodes are very much structured as episodes of 50's and 60's sitcoms, and so the tone, pacing, style of humor, etc. might feel strange to folks who aren't familiar with things like The **** Van Dyke Show and Bewitched. Olsen and Bettany do masterful work with material that is either classic or outdated, depending on your point of view.

    Anyone who's looking primarily for the weirder stuff from the trailers would probably be better off binging it later. It's present in relatively small amounts in these episodes. It will presumably ramp up later in the season.

    This one-minute clip from the first episode is probably the best thing to watch to get a sense of what to expect.

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    Default Re: WandaVision

    I'm kinda down for an old sitcom throwback even without the weird stuff (used to watch Bewitched, I Love Lucy, etc. with my mom all the time), so I'll look into it. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by theNater View Post
    Anyone who's looking primarily for the weirder stuff from the trailers would probably be better off binging it later. It's present in relatively small amounts in these episodes. It will presumably ramp up later in the season.
    Pretty spot on. Oddly my thoughts are "not a huge fan of what I've seen so far, but really interested in seeing where this is going".

    But then as much as I watched a lot of older sitcoms in reruns with my Mom growing up, I don't have a lot of particular affection for them, so just seeing a lot of straight call-backs isn't doing much for me.

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    Default Re: WandaVision

    I am 20 minutes into the first episode, 5 prior to the end, and I cry 😭
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph
    …just seeing a lot of straight call-backs isn't doing much for me.
    They’re not exactly straight call-backs, though.

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    There are a couple of extra layers to the generic sitcom style. The first is some rather clumsy “commentary,” laid on with a trowel, which I won’t detail.

    There’s also some odd things embedded in the plots and characters themselves, in which you suspect there are outside forces trying to exert an influence on Wanda. I don’t mean obvious intrusions like the radio or the helicopter, but just-under-the-surface hints of something else.

    Beyond that, what kept me from really enjoying this—in addition to the highly polished 50s style—is knowing that this is a fictional narrative within the narrative, which I found difficult to immerse myself in. With something like The Mandalorian, not to mention most Marvel movies, what you’re seeing is the real story, and it’s easy to become absorbed in that.

    Here, there are so many layers that the entire thing becomes overtly artificial, and that makes it more difficult for me to suspend disbelief and allow myself to be swept into the story. I’m just sitting in front of a laptop watching a simulation of a black-and-white screen.

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
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    Evidently the commercials are meant to give us clues, and if so the Strucker watch was a little overt. I was assuming that at some point, we’d get around to Wanda being held captive and experimented on…but now I’m wondering who’s left in Hydra to do any captivating, given how defunct they seem to be after Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

    So I’m wondering if this is some mindworm implanted in Wanda’s psyche while she was undergoing the process of enhancement, and which has now activated for some reason or another—maybe as simple as retreating from the trauma of Vision’s death, or for some more involved superheroic cause.
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    I think the commercials are related to her history instead of her current condition. The Stark toaster would be the Stark bomb that she spent two days staring at as a kid, and then the Strucker watch is just referencing how she got her powers.

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    I think it's aliens. Some alien is trying to burrow into Wanda's mind, and the sitcoms are Wanda's defense mechanism-a pleasant fantasy she can hide in. The commercials would then indicate their progress in reading her mind; they're already up to AoU.

    Evidence is, admittedly, minimal: Episode 1's "my wife and her flying saucers" stuck out to me, as flying saucers are not typically associated with Scarlet Witch. Episode 2 had "I mean you no harm", which reads as an alien interaction to me(I'd expect "hurt" instead of "harm" between humans). Then there's the insignia on the helicopter and the beekeeper. It appears to include a sword, which could indicate that SWORD(SHIELD's anti-alien counterpart) are in the area.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Originally Posted by Devonix
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    He didn't steal the stone from vision, He stole it from Hydra/Shield So when he returned the stone he returned it to them.
    Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
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    Mind stone was in Loki’s scepter when they grabbed it in Endgame.
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    Thanks for the reminder on that.

    I’m a little hazy on the timeline(s) with the Infinity Stones. I remember the Ancient One telling Banner that without the stones, the universe just falls apart. But when Thanos destroys the stones, the universe keeps on spinning. And the Avengers don’t actually restore the stones, they just steal them from the past and then return them. So are the stones vital to the survival of the universe, or not?

    On a side note, it does suggest one possibility for returning Vision, though—enter the past, download his consciousness, then upload into a new Viz body. But that’s probably far too ambitious for a series like this, and likely not at all the direction they’d want to go.


    Originally Posted by theNater
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    I think the commercials are related to her history instead of her current condition. The Stark toaster would be the Stark bomb that she spent two days staring at as a kid, and then the Strucker watch is just referencing how she got her powers.
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    Interesting read on these. Whenever I see the Hydra symbol I always assume it means “watch this space for Hydra EvilTM coming soon,” but you may be right.

    If so, the next commercial should reference the Avengers and/or Ultron. Or maybe a cameo from her brother?


    Originally Posted by theNater
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    Episode 1's "my wife and her flying saucers”….
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    “Flying saucers” is classic 50s, so I wouldn’t read too much into it beyond a period reference.

    The beekeeper is interesting, because each of the two episodes closes with a hexagonal frame tightening around Wanda and Vision, referencing a honeycomb. I wouldn’t assume aliens off the bat, but clearly there's some bee-ey metaphor in play.
    Last edited by Palanan; 2021-01-16 at 09:11 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    If this is in Wanda's brain, where did she get her ' US fifties sitcom' knowledge? She was raised in a wartorn nation run by Hydra in Eastern Europe somewhere.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard
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    If this is in Wanda's brain, where did she get her ' US fifties sitcom' knowledge? She was raised in a wartorn nation run by Hydra in Eastern Europe somewhere.
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    Exactly what I was wondering. All I can think is that Wanda watched a lot of TV when she was at the Avengers compound. If so, it's possible that she and Vision watched some together.

    Also, as far as Sokovia, I didn't have the impression it was run by Hydra, more of a generic Eastern Europe failed state. Zimo was very definitely not Hydra, and I don't recall any indication that Hydra was involved in anything other than Strucker's research at the monastery.

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
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    I’m a little hazy on the timeline(s) with the Infinity Stones. I remember the Ancient One telling Banner that without the stones, the universe just falls apart. But when Thanos destroys the stones, the universe keeps on spinning. And the Avengers don’t actually restore the stones, they just steal them from the past and then return them. So are the stones vital to the survival of the universe, or not?

    On a side note, it does suggest one possibility for returning Vision, though—enter the past, download his consciousness, then upload into a new Viz body. But that’s probably far too ambitious for a series like this, and likely not at all the direction they’d want to go.
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    I read that scene as more ‘if the Infinity Stones are removed from the timeline, the timeline will go bad sooner, because some of the Stones were instrumental in stopping non-Thanos big bads from wrecking everything’ (Dormammu, just for starters - and we don’t know if the Ancient One used it herself for world-saving purposes prior to Dr. Strange getting it).

    Outside the movies, one of the Russo brothers stated that the Stones still exist, they’ve just been reduced to the atomic level, with the implication that whatever they do as universe superglue is still being done just no one can USE them anymore.

    RE: Vision, Agents of Shield (I think it was Season 4) mentioned that some of the fallout of the Sokovia Accords was that it became illegal to try and make any AIs, though between AoS’s iffy canon status and there arguably being a difference between restoring Vision from ‘backup’ and making an entirely new AI...eh, they’ve had enough opportunities to fix Vision I hope they at least drop a line to handwave why they haven’t done it already.

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Just watched it. It's pretty nicely-made so far.

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    There's been all sorts of theories that Agnes' "husband" is Mephisto, or that (Nightmare?) is actually controlling Wanda. Or maybe that Mephisto is trying to make a deal with Wanda in exchange for her children? I dunno.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
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    If this is in Wanda's brain, where did she get her ' US fifties sitcom' knowledge? She was raised in a wartorn nation run by Hydra in Eastern Europe somewhere.
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    Not familiar with this show, but I don't find that too implausible. There's a lot of pirated TV available in countries that aren't especially functional — my girlfriend, from western Africa, grew up on pirated shows from all over from Saudi TV. Now, I'd say modern Mexican telenovelas are more plausible than 50s sitcoms, but reruns of old American sitcoms aren't out of the realm of possibility.

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    Just finished Ep. 2. Did anyone else notice that the only things in color were the remote control plane and the blood? Ie, scarlet things.

    The beekeeper reminds me of Swarm, but I doubt they’re going to premiere him in this show.
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    As to the question of why would Wanda be into retro American sit-coms, I suspect it was Vision who was keen on them.

    After all, his leisure wear in Civil War was this --

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    While it was just kind of a quirky affectation in that movie, the sweater and slacks make more sense if mid-20th century television was something he was genuinely into.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    As to the question of why would Wanda be into retro American sit-coms, I suspect it was Vision who was keen on them.
    Given part of Vision comes from Jarvis who spent a lot of time with Tony, I think that makes sense.

    Something odd occurred to me though while rewatching Age of Ultron awhile back.
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    Ultron seemed to have a genuine affection for Wanda in that film, even after she turned on him. Kind of creepy that Vision's attraction to her might have its source from that.

  23. - Top - End - #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    As to the question of why would Wanda be into retro American sit-coms, I suspect it was Vision who was keen on them.

    After all, his leisure wear in Civil War was this --

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    While it was just kind of a quirky affectation in that movie, the sweater and slacks make more sense if mid-20th century television was something he was genuinely into.
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    My suspicion is that this is Wanda's prison for Vision. She willed him in a reality for them together. The entire series is her mental breakdown that creates shard of realities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan
    I’m not sure why they chose the 50s sitcom approach
    Not really tv spoilers for it is about the greater comics that inspired the show.

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    One of the largest plot points for Scarlet Witch and Vision in the comics is both of them wanted to be normal in some way. It is a theme that appears in several arcs, again and again, both when they are together in a couple, but also after they are seperated.

    And in several of these arcs it involves Wanda, Vision, or both of them "escaping" into Suburbia.

    Several times it has happened, and in these stories they use suburbia as a mirror to examine what they are running away from. (Think The Twilight Zone, which is Sci-Fi but it is also a show designed in response to 1950s and 60s Sitcoms. Like take the sitcom and make it too much and do you get horror, much like how Black Mirror takes cell-phones and other tech of our time and ask what if it is too much.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Not really tv spoilers for it is about the greater comics that inspired the show.

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    One of the largest plot points for Scarlet Witch and Vision in the comics is both of them wanted to be normal in some way. It is a theme that appears in several arcs, again and again, both when they are together in a couple, but also after they are seperated.

    And in several of these arcs it involves Wanda, Vision, or both of them "escaping" into Suburbia.

    Several times it has happened, and in these stories they use suburbia as a mirror to examine what they are running away from. (Think The Twilight Zone, which is Sci-Fi but it is also a show designed in response to 1950s and 60s Sitcoms. Like take the sitcom and make it too much and do you get horror, much like how Black Mirror takes cell-phones and other tech of our time and ask what if it is too much.)
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    Spot on. As someone who has loved these two characters and their relationship since before I knew how to read and have followed their stories for decades, here’s the obvious influences: House of M, the Twins storyline, and Tom King’s Vision story. I’d say the 50s vibe comes most strongly from the Vision story.

    I’m not sure why people think the Beekeeper is Swarm - beekeepers are another name for AIM, or advanced idea mechanics, which was bastardized in Iron Man 3. In the comics, AIM was a HYDRA subsidiary before they spun off to do their own thing.

    In the comics, the Twins are fashioned from pieces of Mephisto. In this case I think he’s still potentially in play, given the Devil reference in episode 2 and the repeated theme of For the Children. Likely what’s going on is Wanda has co-opted the town of Westview with her powers, but Mephisto has hijacked the process in some way, while SWORD and AIM race to save Wanda or exploit the situation.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    It's not that it's impossible, it just feels odd and US Centric.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    I don't think the question is "why do they want to escape and appear normal in 1950s suburban american", but "why do they want to escape an appear normal in 1950s suburban America"

    Like, the Doylist reason is because they wanted to make a 50s sitcom parody with heavy Betwitched references. But I think it makes no sense for the MCU characters. Wanda is an eastern European. Vision was made from JARVIS.

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    Originally Posted by Cikomyr2
    But I think it makes no sense for the MCU characters. Wanda is an eastern European. Vision was made from JARVIS.
    Ultron designed Vision to be his ultimate body, and Ultron was designed by Stark and Banner, both Americans. JARVIS was also designed by Stark, so it makes sense that if Vision would be from anywhere, it would be America.

    As for Wanda, she spoke excellent English before she met the Avengers, and she must have learned that from somewhere. And as noted above, she and Vision might have had TV nights at the Avengers compound.

    Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard
    It's not that it's impossible, it just feels odd and US Centric.
    Well, the Avengers were created in America and their membership is almost entirely American, so it would be a little odd if the show wasn’t in the US. It would be much more of a stretch for Wanda to be in a Brazilian telenovela or a Chinese C-drama.

  29. - Top - End - #29
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    I just don't understand who this is for... what's the target audience? Is there really a demand from super hero movie fans to have a 50's sitcom show?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Antediluvian View Post
    I just don't understand who this is for... what's the target audience? Is there really a demand from super hero movie fans to have a 50's sitcom show?
    First of all, Bewitched Nostalgia is a thing for early Gen Y who watched syndication TV when they were young.

    Second, there is a dystopia feel/mystery to the whole piece. I personally don't think the entire season will be 50s sitcom Schtick. If anything, the show will probably evolve as Wanda... Wakes?

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