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Thread: WandaVision

  1. - Top - End - #301
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: WandaVision

    My two cents:
    Spoiler: Wanda, Pietro, Agnes
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    I'm back on "it's all Wanda". Agnes and Pietro's character-breaking are not actual character breaks, but a symptom of Wanda's growing realization that what's going on around her is built like a TV show. Pietro's assigned role as someone who is there to cause her grief gives her subconscious an opening to confront her with the hard questions she's been avoiding.

    The commercial is part of my reason for this reading. If some portion of Wanda's magic is sealed away, a partial tap into it could explain her apparent power increase without requiring an outside power source.

    Spoiler: Hayward
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    Anyone basically competent at Hayward's job knows that if your primary concern is the safety of the hostages, drawing out negotiations is vastly preferable to attacking the hostage-takers. Now, I do think Hayward is basically competent, but that he tried to kill Wanda to keep secret whatever he was doing with Vision's body. His nonsense arguments about the well-being of the hostages are an attempt to avoid getting arrested for attempted murder.


    I've also got a couple of off-the-wall guesses that I want down just on the off-chance that either of them is right:
    Spoiler: Wanda+
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    While I think it's all Wanda, that doesn't mean it's only Wanda. Pietro being from the X-Men films opens up multiverse possibilities; there could be multiple Wandas involved.

    Spoiler: More Power
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    I have heard a few people suggest that Monica's trips through the barrier might grant her her powers from the comics. Her teamwork with Jimmy and Darcy then led me to wonder if the show would find excuses to send them through (and give them powers) so the three of them could form a super-team. Other speculation that Monica's aerospace engineer friend might be Reed Richards has now got me wondering: could they become the Fantastic Four? Monica's Photon powers aren't that different from the Human Torch's, Darcy's hacking ability plus invisibility would make her a really good infiltration specialist, Jimmy would make a pretty good Thing, and then we only need our stretchy scientist.

  2. - Top - End - #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by theNater View Post
    Spoiler: More Power
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    I have heard a few people suggest that Monica's trips through the barrier might grant her her powers from the comics. Her teamwork with Jimmy and Darcy then led me to wonder if the show would find excuses to send them through (and give them powers) so the three of them could form a super-team. Other speculation that Monica's aerospace engineer friend might be Reed Richards has now got me wondering: could they become the Fantastic Four? Monica's Photon powers aren't that different from the Human Torch's, Darcy's hacking ability plus invisibility would make her a really good infiltration specialist, Jimmy would make a pretty good Thing, and then we only need our stretchy scientist.
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    I doubt they would replace Reed/Sue/Johnny/Ben with Darcy/Monica/Woo/??? if only because I suspect the dedicated F4 fans would riot.

    Giving Darcy powers sounds plausible though, I don’t think she appears outside of the MCU presently so they could do whatever they want with her and it would be a surprise. And at this point I’d be more surprised if Monica didn’t get powers, I just hope they don’t make her a __ Marvel too and go with one of her other comic aliases.

  3. - Top - End - #303
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    A Team of 4 People

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    I do not believe Monica is going to be part of the FF4.

    But hey giving evidence for a theory I do not believe. Remember Monica's costume in the 70s episode where the twins were born. It is the same coloring as the 1970s Fantastic Four costume, and she has 4 buttons and her sword necklace right above where the FF4 logo would be.

    (Still do not believe it is going to happen. Monica's powers are "light", if the FF4 manipulate water, air, earth, and fire well Captain Marvel / Spectrum is the equivalent but with Light not an element.)
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  4. - Top - End - #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
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    I doubt they would replace Reed/Sue/Johnny/Ben with Darcy/Monica/Woo/??? if only because I suspect the dedicated F4 fans would riot.

    Giving Darcy powers sounds plausible though, I don’t think she appears outside of the MCU presently so they could do whatever they want with her and it would be a surprise. And at this point I’d be more surprised if Monica didn’t get powers, I just hope they don’t make her a __ Marvel too and go with one of her other comic aliases.
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    I expect they'll go with Spectrum, as that's her current name.

    I can't remember when it was but there was a point where Darcy listed a whole lot of science words in a row and they were all previous aliases Monica has had in the comics.

    I think if they're going to do the Fantastic Four they'll do something recognisable as the Fantastic Four. The most important thing about the Four is that they're a family. Not "some people who have met". That's why The Incredibles is such a good Fantastic Four movie.


    Quote Originally Posted by theNater
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    I'm back on "it's all Wanda". Agnes and Pietro's character-breaking are not actual character breaks, but a symptom of Wanda's growing realization that what's going on around her is built like a TV show. Pietro's assigned role as someone who is there to cause her grief gives her subconscious an opening to confront her with the hard questions she's been avoiding.
    Spoiler
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    I think everything but the twins is Wanda. Most of it is happening unconsciously.



    Also I liked episode 6 using halloween as an excuse to put everyone in their silver age costumes. Including Wiccan was a nice touch.
    Last edited by GloatingSwine; 2021-02-12 at 07:21 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #305
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Spoiler: Pietro's Origin
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    I really don't think Pietro was sent by SWORD. It's possible Wanda summoned him unconsciously, which explains why she doesn't remember it, but doesn't explain why he looks different.

    I think the best theory is that Pietro was summoned by Billy. It explains why Wanda wasn't expecting him and why he looks different, since Billy has never seen him before. And it's been established he has the same reality bending powers as his mother (hence aging him and his brother up, twice).


    Spoiler: L33t Haxxorz
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    Also, didn't Darcy do some hacking in the first Thor movie? So there's some precedent she can do it, right?
    Last edited by JadedDM; 2021-02-12 at 09:41 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Spoiler: Questions, Questions
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    So, this episode…happened.

    Not sure what to think about any of it. Was Vision somehow able to recreate a version of the Mindstone? Is he able to tap into Wanda’s power to reshape himself? Has Wanda somehow also reanimated Pietro, despite seeming confused about his appearance?

    Many more questions than answers.
    Given the trailer,
    Spoiler
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    She did - or at least she reformed something that looked an awful lot LIKE the stone. That is likely what's in his forehead, whether or not it's an actual reformed infinity stone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Spoiler: Not Career-Enhancing
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    ...
    Of course, by the time this is over he’ll have saved the world and all will be forgiven, but right at that moment it made no sense for the character to do what he did.
    Clearly there was a plan there that the two acted on, Darcy even lampshades this.

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    But from what we've seen,
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    Wanda is holding thousands of people hostage in a state of agony and terror. Haywood's response isn't unreasonable.
    His actions very much are. A drone strike should not be option A, particularly not without consulting the experts he brought in specifically to understand what was happening, and especially when there is no imminent loss of life.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  7. - Top - End - #307
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    I kind of wonder...I think both sides of this argument are right. Hayward does have good reason to be concerned, but he is acting rather recklessly.

    Spoiler: Hayward's Motives
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    It's been established that SWORD has shifted priorities since the Snap, more focused on creating weapons than observing them, from this dialogue below between Monica and Hayward:

    "Shifted away from manned missions and refocused on robotics, nanotech, A.I. Sentient Weapons, like it says on the door."
    "It also says "Observation and Response" on that door, not "Creation.""
    "World's not the same as you left it. Space is now full of unexpected threats."


    It's also been established that Vision has a living will and it declares he is not to be revived, from some dialogue between Hayward and Woo.

    "Nine days ago. Maximoff stormed our facility, stole the Vision’s body, and resurrected him."
    "But that’s in direct violation of Section 36 B of the Sokovia Accords."
    "And the Vision’s own living will."
    "He didn’t want to be anybody’s weapon."


    Furthermore, it has now been established that Hayward somehow has the ability to track Vision inside the Hex.

    Putting this all together, my theory is that Hayward was doing something to Vision's body--either trying to reactivate him or finding a way to turn him into a weapon or maybe replicate him to create more of him. Somehow, Wanda found out, snapped, broke in and stole his body, then took over Westview. Because what Hayward was doing was against the law and therefore probably had no government approval, he is now at risk of being discovered.

    This would explain why he wants to kill Wanda so badly (she knows) and why he's acting so recklessly in what is basically a mass hostage situation. He's not worried about the innocent lives being held captive, he's worried about covering his own ass.

  8. - Top - End - #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
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    Now, there is a lot to be said for "We don't know what will happen if we just kill her" and trying to talk to Wanda as the safer option. But from what we've seen, Wanda is holding thousands of people hostage in a state of agony and terror. Haywood's response isn't unreasonable.
    Spoiler
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    Yes, it is.

    It is the absolute last thing you try to do in a hostage situation because if it goes wrong you've just killed the hostages.

    There's a reason real hostage situation responses include trained negotiators working for days after contact and lethal force is only used if there is an immediate danger to life of responders or hostages.

    And that's when the hostage takers are humans with known capabilities. If your hostage taker is so far outside of your known threat envelope that you have no reasonable expectation that your level of available force will work (and no, Hayward didn't because he made absolutely no effort to find out, had no dossier on Maximoff and her powers, displayed no familiarity with her capabilities at all, and did not recognise that her current displayed powers are beyond previous known limits) then you absolutely do not attempt something which, if it fails, will make the situation worse.

    Because this is the point irrespective of Hayward's motivations to act. He doesn't know how to kill Wanda. He has no expectation that any weapon he can bring to bear will be adequate to the task. He's a child banging on a landmine with a rock because he once used that rock to split open a coconut and that worked for him.

    It doesn't matter why he's doing it, it's still catastrophically stupid to do anything when you don't understand what you're doing it to and how to do it.

  9. - Top - End - #309
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Most likely Hayward spent years working on the Vision's body, having him half-reanimated on a lab table trying to bring him back online, or reprogram him, etc. Wanda found out (and got really mad and went to get Vision), and that's one more reason why he needs to remove her from the picture asap.

    What we don't know, the big mystery of WandaVision, is what happened in the short time between Wanda taking the Vision from the lab and the Hex being created. Wanda herself does not know it.

    Spoiler: Speculation
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    I suspect that Wanda tried desperately to save the Vision and worked her powers to the limit. Maybe she lost control (like she did in Nigeria) and unleashed someting world-ending or reality-breaking and was trying to undo it or contain it. Maybe not, and all of it was just to bring Vision back.

    In either case, in her magical effort Wanda ended up attracting the attention of a malevolent supernatural entity (Nightmare, Mefisto, maybe Dormammu) who did what the Shark did in the commercial: offered Wanda extra magical power to save Vision/themselves/the whole world, and she took it. That's where the extra power comes from, and this other entity is the unknown factor in the workings of the Hex.

    As for Quicksilver, it might be just this malevolent entity showing up in Wanda's life, replicating Pietro.
    Last edited by Clertar; 2021-02-13 at 06:12 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #310
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    Originally Posted by JadedDM
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    Putting this all together, my theory is that Hayward was doing something to Vision's body--either trying to reactivate him or finding a way to turn him into a weapon or maybe replicate him to create more of him. Somehow, Wanda found out, snapped, broke in and stole his body, then took over Westview. Because what Hayward was doing was against the law and therefore probably had no government approval, he is now at risk of being discovered.
    Spoiler: Hayward
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    This is an excellent theory, and seems the most plausible of anything we’ve been discussing here.

    I did catch the “living will” comment in the dialogue, but I’m pretty sure that a lot of people will instantly dismiss that on the grounds that Vision was a robot and obviously has no standing for a will. Hayward is almost certainly in this camp, and experimenting on Vision’s body could have absolutely triggered Wanda.


    Spoiler: Commercial
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    As for the commercial, I wonder if that’s a metaphor for Wanda trying to access some aspect of her power that she needs to bring herself out of the Hex. The commercial is built around the premise of hunger: so what does Wanda hunger for?

    A normal life, centered around Vision’s return—but some part of her knows that the Hex is wrong and insufficient. So maybe she’s trying to access some deeper level of power, something that will help her break the impasse she’s created for herself, because without that she’ll slowly waste away?

  11. - Top - End - #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    I kind of wonder...I think both sides of this argument are right. Hayward does have good reason to be concerned, but he is acting rather recklessly.

    Spoiler: Hayward's Motives
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    It's been established that SWORD has shifted priorities since the Snap, more focused on creating weapons than observing them, from this dialogue below between Monica and Hayward:

    "Shifted away from manned missions and refocused on robotics, nanotech, A.I. Sentient Weapons, like it says on the door."
    "It also says "Observation and Response" on that door, not "Creation.""
    "World's not the same as you left it. Space is now full of unexpected threats."


    It's also been established that Vision has a living will and it declares he is not to be revived, from some dialogue between Hayward and Woo.

    "Nine days ago. Maximoff stormed our facility, stole the Vision’s body, and resurrected him."
    "But that’s in direct violation of Section 36 B of the Sokovia Accords."
    "And the Vision’s own living will."
    "He didn’t want to be anybody’s weapon."


    Furthermore, it has now been established that Hayward somehow has the ability to track Vision inside the Hex.

    Putting this all together, my theory is that Hayward was doing something to Vision's body--either trying to reactivate him or finding a way to turn him into a weapon or maybe replicate him to create more of him. Somehow, Wanda found out, snapped, broke in and stole his body, then took over Westview. Because what Hayward was doing was against the law and therefore probably had no government approval, he is now at risk of being discovered.

    This would explain why he wants to kill Wanda so badly (she knows) and why he's acting so recklessly in what is basically a mass hostage situation. He's not worried about the innocent lives being held captive, he's worried about covering his own ass.
    ^This. Although, there is a big fat unknown in between
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    "stole his body" and "took over Westview" - and I suspect that unknown is where our true villain/mastermind will be found.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  12. - Top - End - #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodin View Post
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    Depends how quickly her power is growing. As Pietro said, she couldn't do the things she's doing in Age of Ultron. Then it was just a bit of telekinesis and making people have visions. By Endgame she was single-handedly able to wreck Thanos and force him to call for support. And even that pales in comparison to her current power.

    She reminds me of Lyta Alexander from Babylon 5. Starts out at a normal super level, then the changes made to her cause her to become an unparalleled super-weapon. A super-weapon with a massive amount of emotional trauma.
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    her power comes from pain and trauma. The more she suffers it, the more powerful she becomes. Her first significant power boost was at the death of her brother.

  13. - Top - End - #313
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    Originally Posted by Rodin
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    Depends how quickly her power is growing. As Pietro said, she couldn't do the things she's doing in Age of Ultron. Then it was just a bit of telekinesis and making people have visions. By Endgame she was single-handedly able to wreck Thanos and force him to call for support. And even that pales in comparison to her current power.
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    I would push it back a little earlier than Endgame. Wanda’s power was already at Thanos-wrecking levels by the end of Infinity War. She was able to hold off Thanos, who had five Infinity Stones at that point, and simultaneously destroy the sixth Infinity Stone.

    If she’d focused all of her power on Thanos in that moment, she might have avoided the need for the next movie. But she was committed to destroying the Mindstone. and probably didn’t trust her own power enough to gamble she could stop Thanos on her own.

  14. - Top - End - #314
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    You know, I'm surprised people are on fully onboard the "That Really is Pietro", "Agnes is Innocent", and "Everything is Wanda" trains.

    Spoiler: That Really is Pietro
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    Beyond the fact that not!Pietro got all of Agnes' usual Satanic references (he throws the horns up in the credit sequence, "UNLEASH HELL DEMON SPAWN!", "Damnit, if Westview, New Jersey isn't just charming as Hell."), he doesn't really answer any of Wanda's questions. He either deflects the question ("Your testing me, aren't you?") or redirects it back to Wanda (The "What happened to your accent?" exchange). The only real proof of his identity are vague anecdotes, one which is at least somewhat common knowledge (Pietro getting shot by Ultron: Monica knows about the incident, but not!Pietro seems to lack the context for WHY he got shot, ie saving Clint and the kid) and one Wanda admits doesn't sound exactly right, which not!Pietro brushes off.

    Also, not!Pietro clearly knows about things he shouldn't. Beyond the obvious probing questions about how Wanda is doing the things she doing, how could he possibly know enough about the townsfolk to know Wanda gave them better jobs, allowed couples to stay together, or that their personalities were the same? Not to mention how could he have known to make the "Your already dead husband can't die twice!" quip that Wanda attacks him for. In fact, I imagine that quip is WHY she attacks him. Not because of "No making fun of my dead husband" reasons, but "Pietro couldn't know that! IMPOSTER!" reasons.

    As a final point, we didn't get to see much of real!Pietro's personality, but I have hard time believing that the guy who was willing to rescue civilians from a runaway train on Cap's order (leaving Wanda alone at Cap's mercy), fight alongside the Avengers to stop a homicidal robot and dies rescuing Hawkeye and a kid, would be callous/sociopathic enough to be impressed that his sister was mind-raping and torturing an entire town. I know iN tHe CoMiCs, that's closer to his personality, but they've clearly been willing to change things from their source material.


    Spoiler: Agnes is Innocent
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    The show goes out of it's way to show that the further you are from Wanda, the less mobile and active you are, to the point of being cg!frozen in mid-step, like the trick-or-treaters in the cul-de-sac, and are unable to respond to Vision's questioning. Why then was Agnes able to move (she seems more stage!frozen, ie holding very still, but still swaying her head when Vision approaches the car), talk, and drive a ****ing car before and after Vision "released" her from Wanda's control? There's also her rather bizarre behavior after Vision "freed" her, going from helpless damsel-in-distress, to screaming DEAD! at him, going back to damsel-in-distress, to proclaiming "All is lost!" (what was this all about btw) then cackling like a lunatic. Then, as soon she was back "under" Wanda's control, she doesn't even act like the brainwashed monotone puppet anymore, but is back to being chipper Auntie Agnes!

    Also, if "Wanda" won't even let people think about leaving, how did Agnes manage to drive a car all the way to edge of the Hex, to the exact road Wanda told the twins not to go past, across the field where SWORD has their base set-up?

    Vision also raises a good point, how did Agnes get lost in the small town she lives in?


    Spoiler: Everything is Wanda
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    I personally take Wanda at her word that she has no idea what is going on AND that she hasn't suffered some New Powers as the Plot Demands trauma break bs.

    The mental state she describes ("feeling completely alone. Empty. Just endless nothingness"), while sounding like a trauma break, also sounds like someone who would be desperate enough to make a deal with someone, or something, to make the feeling go away.

    There's also several things that don't make sense if she is in complete control. Why makecharacters who can snark at you and break the fourth wall(Agnes, Herb, the mailman)? Why make characters randomly talk/read/laugh in perfect unison (how did Norm's computer intercept the SWORD communique?)?
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  15. - Top - End - #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdrop View Post
    Spoiler: Everything is Wanda
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    (how did Norm's computer intercept the SWORD communique?)?
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    I had been under the impression SWORD had specifically sent the e-mail as part of their overarching goal of ‘get information into or out of Westview.’

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdrop View Post
    You know, I'm surprised people are on fully onboard the "That Really is Pietro", "Agnes is Innocent", and "Everything is Wanda" trains.
    without mentioning the comics even once, give me five things that suggest it's not Wanda. or that some yet unforeseen third-power is involved here.

    we're six episodes in to a nine episode season. As a general rule, you don't introduce a major villain in your third act who was "Behind everything the whoooole tiime!!! OoOOOoOOooOOo!!!!" Otherwise you just get a confusing and boring mess. like the ending of homestuck.

    If they were going to introduce mephisto or hydra or some other force, they've had plenty of chances to do so. Situations similar to the end-credits and commercials of the first three episode (Obvious outside-viewer, radio trying to talk to wanda, someone being shunted out of the illusion) would have been the perfect opportunity to do so. but we haven't seen anything even remotely of the sort. No evil grins, no just-off-camera figures casing a shadow, no scenes of Wanda drawing power from an outside source, nothing.

    Thanos got proper foreshadowing, Iron monger got proper foreshadowing, Dormammu got proper foreshadowing, every villain was at least mentioned, seen, or hinted at before the third act of their respective story. We already have two perfectly good antagonists in Wanda and Hayward, why do we need some mysterious "even more powerful" one that has had zero mention up to and including episode 6?
    Last edited by Draconi Redfir; 2021-02-14 at 08:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    without mentioning the comics even once, give me five things that suggest it's not Wanda. or that some yet unforeseen third-power is involved here.

    we're six episodes in to a nine episode season. As a general rule, you don't introduce a major villain in your third act who was "Behind everything the whoooole tiime!!! OoOOOoOOooOOo!!!!" Otherwise you just get a confusing and boring mess. like the ending of homestuck.

    If they were going to introduce mephisto or hydra or some other force, they've had plenty of chances to do so. Situations similar to the end-credits and commercials of the first three episode (Obvious outside-viewer, radio trying to talk to wanda, someone being shunted out of the illusion) would have been the perfect opportunity to do so. but we haven't seen anything even remotely of the sort. No evil grins, no just-off-camera figures casing a shadow, no scenes of Wanda drawing power from an outside source, nothing.

    Thanos got proper foreshadowing, Iron monger got proper foreshadowing, Dormammu got proper foreshadowing, every villain was at least mentioned, seen, or hinted at before the third act of their respective story. We already have two perfectly good antagonists in Wanda and Hayward, why do we need some mysterious "even more powerful" one that has had zero mention up to and including episode 6?
    Spoiler: Five things?
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    1. Wanda has never shown this type of power before. Amount, maybe, but not the type.
    2. Wanda doesn't know how this started. She doesn't believe she can control everything on this scale.
    3. Pietro was clearly an impostor. He knows too much and asks too many probing questions.
    4. For all her jokes about Ralph, Agnes doesn't appear to actually have a husband. She tries to escape Westview alone.
    5. The latest commercial shows a castaway -- alone, stranded, and desperate -- being handed a gift by a shark. That gift does not actually help the castaway. That fits with how Wanda was feeling and suggests a second agent is involved.
    6. One thing Pietro did say was "If I found Shangri-la..." Found. Not made.


    It doesn't have to be someone that hasn't been introduced or talked about yet. Since the episodes at the tail end are supposed to be longer than the first few, we're less than 60% of the way through the story. Plenty of time for more big, or little, reveals.

  18. - Top - End - #318
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Also, comic book concepts cna just diverge when adapted.

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    How about Mephisto is a manifestation of Wanda's powers? Like, Wanda's subconscious thoughts? And evil side that does things when she's not at the wheel? Wanda's self protection reflex, meant to out her in a happy environment?

    Just because Mephisto being a thing could happen doesn't mean it has to be the same as the comic, and as mentioned, there's been no foreshadowing of anything external to Wanda to explain what's happening here.

    There has been plenty of foreshadowing of why it's happening tho.

  19. - Top - End - #319
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Quote Originally Posted by Zalabim View Post
    Spoiler: Five things?
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    1. Wanda has never shown this type of power before. Amount, maybe, but not the type.
    2. Wanda doesn't know how this started. She doesn't believe she can control everything on this scale.
    3. Pietro was clearly an impostor. He knows too much and asks too many probing questions.
    4. For all her jokes about Ralph, Agnes doesn't appear to actually have a husband. She tries to escape Westview alone.
    5. The latest commercial shows a castaway -- alone, stranded, and desperate -- being handed a gift by a shark. That gift does not actually help the castaway. That fits with how Wanda was feeling and suggests a second agent is involved.
    6. One thing Pietro did say was "If I found Shangri-la..." Found. Not made.
    Re: #2, she’s also not wrong.

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    She can’t control her kids and increasingly her husband. She’s been surprised before, which shouldn’t be happening if she alone is running the ‘show.’ She’s never been associated with hexagons before, but now they’re EVERYWHERE.


    Also, from a pure storytelling perspective, they’re going to want to do some kind of twist for the last, or possibly second-to-last episode and ‘it’s Wanda and it was always only Wanda’ isn’t very twisty.

  20. - Top - End - #320
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    Honestly, while this episode may have debunked Agnes as the one behind it--unless she's playing a very weird game--Wanda's decription of remembering only a feeling of total desolation before Westview sounds *very much* like something offered her a deal or was able to hijack her powers, and Pietro totally reads as here to convince Wanda--who was starting to have doubts in the face of the argument with Vision--that she is in control, that it's all right--and indeed, to provoke her to go further. Plus, Wanda's behavior and questions in all her interactions with him make it pretty clear that she never had any intention of bringing Pietro back. At the very least, her powers are sometimes doing things without her conscious intent, at most, Pietro is an outright imposter, which would definitely suggest some manipulative force at play.
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  21. - Top - End - #321
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    Re: #2, she’s also not wrong.

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    She can’t control her kids and increasingly her husband. She’s been surprised before, which shouldn’t be happening if she alone is running the ‘show.’ She’s never been associated with hexagons before, but now they’re EVERYWHERE.

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    what, you've never done something without fully understanding why? Never spoken without thinking? Never acted without thinking? Never had a story or character go in a completely different direction then you originally intended? Never planned on playing an evil character in a video game, but kept making good-aligned choices, or vice versa?


    i know there are four other points to respond too, and i'm sure there are responses to them, i just can't think of them at the moment. this one in particular just jumped into my head though.

    the fact that Monica, Darcy, Vision, Pietro, Hayward, Wanda, and the entire population of Westview have all said some variant of "It's Wanda." ... idk I'm kinda feeling like it might be Wanda? If you wanted to go for a twist at this point you'd be better off saying Wanda was incredibly drunk or high or maybe even had some kind of subtle influence from some known source like Hayward or Hydra or something, but she still created the Hex an the entire ordeal all of her own power, then you would be by saying "Surprise! It's me! Super-satan! I was here aaalll along! it was all me! i did it! i am responsible! Please casually forget all the previously established plot points and focus all your efforts on eliminating me, the guy who has done nothing, said nothing, and has never been seen up until this point!"
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  22. - Top - End - #322
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    the fact that Monica, Darcy, Vision, Pietro, Hayward, Wanda, and the entire population of Westview have all said some variant of "It's Wanda." ... idk I'm kinda feeling like it might be Wanda? If you wanted to go for a twist at this point you'd be better off saying Wanda was incredibly drunk or high or maybe even had some kind of subtle influence from some known source like Hayward or Hydra or something, but she still created the Hex an the entire ordeal all of her own power, then you would be by saying "Surprise! It's me! Super-satan! I was here aaalll along! it was all me! i did it! i am responsible! Please casually forget all the previously established plot points and focus all your efforts on eliminating me, the guy who has done nothing, said nothing, and has never been seen up until this point!"

    It's Wanda, but that doesn't rule out her being given a little nudge here and there.

    I still think that is what has happened but who or whatever provided that nudge is being set up to be resolved, at the earliest, in Multiverse of Madness.

  23. - Top - End - #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    It's Wanda, but that doesn't rule out her being given a little nudge here and there.

    I still think that is what has happened but who or whatever provided that nudge is being set up to be resolved, at the earliest, in Multiverse of Madness.
    This is my inclination as well. The speculation on the Internet about characters who haven't been introduced is like watching the post-credits scene from The Avengers and speculating on who they will cast as Death in the next Marvel movie. Because Thano's presence automatically means that story will happen. The Snap did wind up happening, but under wildly different circumstances and a totally different story to the comics. And it took years for them to build up the necessary background to set up Infinity War.

    So maybe the naming themes are important and they're going to introduce a villain out of nowhere two-thirds of the way through a single season series. Or maybe the naming is just red herrings. No theory I've seen thus far has convinced me that there is some offscreen puppetmaster actively running things. I am prepared to believe that some of it is very subtle foreshadowing that will lead us to the TV equivalent of a post-credits scene. A short moment that says "this villain exists and is active" prior to them being properly introduced in a later movie.

  24. - Top - End - #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdrop View Post
    You know, I'm surprised people are on fully onboard the "That Really is Pietro", "Agnes is Innocent", and "Everything is Wanda" trains.

    *snip*
    Oh, I'm not "fully onboard" with anything. In fact, I more or less agree with all three of your spoilers
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  25. - Top - End - #325
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Spoiler: Yo-Magic!
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    I'm wondering, could the Yo-Magic commercial be a reference to the Snap? Or rather, the five years she was dead during the Snap?

    Most people say the boy is Wanda and the Shark is some energy source of some kind, and the yogurt is the massive boost in her power. Assuming that is all true, then does that mean she was offered the power while she was dead? Or perhaps that she actually received it beforehand, but then she died, so was unable to use it?

  26. - Top - End - #326
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    Spoiler: Yo Magic!
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    Maybe we're all overthinking the commercial.

    Maybe "Yo Magic" is exactly what it says on the tin. It's Magic. And the Boy is trying to use it to solve his problem: Hunger. But he dies instead.

    maybe it's a hint that Wanda's abilities can't solve all her problems. they can't fix her grief or bring back the dead.

    Shark is the mind stone or hydra experiments giving her the power in the first place i guess.
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  27. - Top - End - #327
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    If I was going to pick a Stone to tie the Yo-Magic commercial to,
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    it would be Soul - a skeleton longing for a prize he can never quite get, and wasting away in the process, feels apropos.

    But putting the admittedly loose stone ties aside, the commercial may be much more straightforward - with the shark quite literally explaining that he was "starving all the time" until he started "snacking on yo magic." He almost certainly represents whichever villainous entity - Mephisto? Dormammu? Nightmare? - got this Lotus Eater Machine up and running in the first place.


    Tangential note: Anyone else hear the rumors that the final three episodes will each be an hour long? Or the rumored 10th episode? Any truth to those?
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  28. - Top - End - #328
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    There's also the possibility - and I'm not saying it would be a good writing choice - that there will be some degree of cliffhanger involved.

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    Something along the lines of: by the end of the series, the people outside have broken through to Wanda and have convinced her to lower the illusion. Or Vision is fixed sufficiently that the spell goes down. But they don't answer the question of where she got the power to do it. At which point they could possibly do a cliffhanger along the lines of "Yes it was me all along, Mephisto! Mwahahaha, see you in season two/Multiverse of Madness!".
    Last edited by Eldan; 2021-02-15 at 04:37 AM.
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  29. - Top - End - #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
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    But they don't answer the question of where she got the power to do it.
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    i mean... do they need too? We've already seen Wanda throw around giant machines like they're paperweights, hold off Thanos with five out of six stones while also destroying the mind stone, AND she beat up no-stone Thanos pretty well all on her own, only reason she didn't was due to orbital bombardment.

    I really feel like "Where is all this power coming from!?" is not one of the questions we should be asking. She has the power. She's always had the power. This is just a new method of using said power.
    Last edited by Draconi Redfir; 2021-02-15 at 04:52 AM.
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  30. - Top - End - #330
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Probably, yeah. But people in the show are asking that question, which seems to be implying to me it's something we're supposed to wonder about.
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