WandaVision

[Tyrant]

Isn't this idea of there being another villain and proper story structure going to come down to whether the people in charge consider this one story or part of a larger story? Would it be somewhat unsatisfying if a new villain (Mephisto, Nightmare, etc.) shows up now with so little time left? Sure. But, what if the other villain is merely mentioned? Wanda wins some hypothetical battle and the villain mentions so and so will be disappointed in them or won't ever stop until they get whatever they are after or whatever. That way you have the higher villain but not with them taking up the rest of the show.

Consider how Infinity War ended. The heroes are dealt a considerable blow with many "gone" and the villain has clearly won. This works because you know there is going to be another movie. WandaVision isn't the end of the MCU. The "satisfying conclusion" to this chapter could just be Wanda coming to terms with things and whatever fate befalls Vision. If a new villain is introduced, learning their whole story and defeating them doesn't have to be the conclusion. They can show up, do their thing, and leave to be seen in a future product, while Wanda finishes this part of her story. To go back to Star Wars, this is A New Hope or Empire, not Jedi.

[Mordar]

Isn't this idea of there being another villain and proper story structure going to come down to whether the people in charge consider this one story or part of a larger story? Would it be somewhat unsatisfying if a new villain (Mephisto, Nightmare, etc.) shows up now with so little time left? Sure. But, what if the other villain is merely mentioned? Wanda wins some hypothetical battle and the villain mentions so and so will be disappointed in them or won't ever stop until they get whatever they are after or whatever. That way you have the higher villain but not with them taking up the rest of the show.

Consider how Infinity War ended. The heroes are dealt a considerable blow with many "gone" and the villain has clearly won. This works because you know there is going to be another movie. WandaVision isn't the end of the MCU. The "satisfying conclusion" to this chapter could just be Wanda coming to terms with things and whatever fate befalls Vision. If a new villain is introduced, learning their whole story and defeating them doesn't have to be the conclusion. They can show up, do their thing, and leave to be seen in a future product, while Wanda finishes this part of her story. To go back to Star Wars, this is A New Hope or Empire, not Jedi.

To add on, the "satisfying conclusion" might be as simple as the exoneration of Wanda, the reanimation of Vision and the potential placements of Photon, Wiccan and Speed...along with the big tease of Thanos v2.

- M

[Ramza00]

Some people not saying people here but me glossing over the internet.

Spoiler: Episode 7

Show

Some people are not liking this episode of WandaVision, episode 7 The Modern Family episode where not much happens with Wanda's story arc, but we do have advancement with Monica and Agnes arc, and we see minor plot advancement with Vision and Darcy.

Such people are complaining this episode is not fun, it feels meandering, like it could be shorter, and they fear it is going to go all MCU punch things action, especially since we have only 2 episodes left. They are complaining this is a waste of a 3rd to last episode of a 9 episode series.

-----

I disagree This episode was purposefully slow, meandering, not much happen with the Wanda arc but also with Vision and Darcy for it is a metaphor for Depression. Wanda feels stuck and does not know how to fix it. Being the cheery sitcom wife and later mom of the early episodes

60s (**** Van Dyke Show), late 60s (Bewitched), 70s (Brady Bunch and others), 80s (Growing Pains), 90s (Full House but also others, note the 90s were quick for when the kids aged they swapped from 80s to 90s in episode 5), 00s (Malcom in the middle).

that stuff is not working and thus Wanda is feeling the full weight of the depression and grief, and she can't control the hex anymore after expanding it, and thus she is depressed.

Thus the whole episode is meant to make you feel depressed to provide contrast with the end of episode 7 and the start of episodes 8 and 9.

-----

People hate feeling depressed, and how moods of one person can affect another, or how tv moods can affect ourselves. Thus sometimes we are angry at depressed people or depressed tv, and we crave the happy emotional transference of things like sitcoms, but also other forms of emotional transference such as violence on tv and so on.

[Psyren]

So think of WandaVision as Avengers (first film). Agatha is Loki...and we get a longer look at [UNNAMED] so we have the opportunity to get better positioned for all this weird magic/supernatural/not-pseudo-sciencey next wave.

Yes, my point exactly. Thanos didn't get a single mention in Phase 1 until the post-credits scene of Avengers (i.e. the very, very end.) Doing this didn't hurt the MCU's success, nor even Thanos' impact as a villain in his own right, one bit. Feige knows what he's doing, so the doomsaying from Draconi and others just makes no sense to me.

[Draconi Redfir]

Yes, my point exactly. Thanos didn't get a single mention in Phase 1 until the post-credits scene of Avengers (i.e. the very, very end.) Doing this didn't hurt the MCU's success, nor even Thanos' impact as a villain in his own right, one bit. Feige knows what he's doing, so the doomsaying from Draconi and others just makes no sense to me.

But that's the thing! I'm not talking about the MCU, i'm not talking about Phase 4. i'm talking about Wanda. Vision. I'm saying that in the story of WandaVision we shouldn't introduce some radical new enemy of WandaVision to be the "Big bad who is behind everything" for the plot of "WandaVision"

Go right the heck ahead and have some red dude turning off the TV as the final credits of episode 9 roll! Go right ahead and have Agatha at his feet saying "sorry i couldn't get that woman for you master" or whatever the heck you want before fading to black. That's MCU setup! that's fine! that's perfectly fine!

What i'm saying is don't Be halfway through the final Episode of WandaVision and have Agatha, Wanda, and Hawthorne all staring eachother down when suddenly there is a big loud "Bang!" as a big guy in a red suit kicks a door in, shouting "Aren't you forgetting about someone!?"

"Who are you!?!?!"

"I am Mephisto! I created this Hex! I also mind controlled Wanda to steal visions body and Agatha is my wife! Now you will all die!"

"Oh no!"

And then have everyone completely disregard the entire plot of Wandavision to turn on and kill Mephisto in the remaining fifteen minutes of the show. Because that is not setup, that is Diabolus ex Machina.

You can absolutely introduce characters or themes for payoff in future projects of the MCU, this is nothing new. What I'm talking about though is if after Ironman flew the nuke through the portal in "Avengers", he was suddenly grabbed by Thanos (who by this point had no introduction) and carried back through the portal, where he proceeded to beat up the Avengers with a fully-powered Infinity gauntlet.


WandaVision as a story has it's villains and it's heroes. Everything is set up fine as-is, that's good! everyone has had their setup and their introduction, everyone is in place, and the story of WandaVision is good to continue as is. Introducing someone else who is suddenly a major player to the story of Wandavision though would be a bad move. We're already over the halfway mark here, there just isn't room for a new villain, hero, or whatever else to pop out of nowhere like that without utterly killing the story we're being told. the MCU exists yes, but each PART of the MCU is it's own self-contained story. Self-contained stories that fit together yes, but self-contained nonetheless.

All i am saying is that in the self-contained story of Wandavision, it's simply too late to introduce a major player of that self-contained story without ruining that self-contained story. Throwing in links to other stories? Completely different thing, go wild. But WandaVision already has all it's pieces in a row, we don't need any more to tell a good story.

[Mordar]

All i am saying is that in the self-contained story of Wandavision, it's simply too late to introduce a major player of that self-contained story without ruining that self-contained story. Throwing in links to other stories? Completely different thing, go wild. But WandaVision already has all it's pieces in a row, we don't need any more to tell a good story.

Absolutely understandable...but hinges on the valuation on WandaVision. If the creators view it as a 4 hour preview to Phase X, then the value as a self contained story with a defined story arc (of which there are stunningly few in American television...), it isn't a requirement to honor the internal story as the priority.

And as I mentioned, I think it will need more than a tease at the end for this kind of villain. Maybe the final punch lands 15 minutes in to the final episode...and then we get a 45-minute "making of" or "wrap party" where the villain lays out the story.

- M

[Psyren]

What i'm saying is don't Be halfway through the final Episode of WandaVision and have Agatha, Wanda, and Hawthorne all staring eachother down when suddenly there is a big loud "Bang!" as a big guy in a red suit kicks a door in, shouting "Aren't you forgetting about someone!?"

"Who are you!?!?!"

"I am Mephisto! I created this Hex! I also mind controlled Wanda to steal visions body and Agatha is my wife! Now you will all die!"

"Oh no!"

And then have everyone completely disregard the entire plot of Wandavision to turn on and kill Mephisto in the remaining fifteen minutes of the show. Because that is not setup, that is Diabolus ex Machina.

I've seen no indication that they're doing that - but even if they do, I'll judge the setup and execution of that on its own merits. I'm as fond as inventing scenarios out of thin air as the next fan, but I see more value in the positive ones where there is a proven track record

As an example, many of us called Ag = Ag as far back as episode 1, but the execution of that reveal is what elevated it to memetic appeal status among fans and newcomers alike. Execution isn't everything, but it's pretty damn close.

[Draconi Redfir]

As an example, many of us called as far back as episode 1, but the execution of that reveal is what elevated it to memetic appeal status among fans and newcomers alike. Execution isn't everything, but it's pretty damn close.

AG was at least there since episode 1. there is no one else who fits that who could be this "Über powerful entity secretly behind it all" that we really don't need?

Want someone who created the Hex? Wanda.

Want someone pulling the strings? Agatha.

Want someone with a secret motive? Hawthorne.

There would just be no benefit to some last-minute addition.

[Ramza00]

AG was at least there since episode 1. there is no one else who fits that who could be this "Über powerful entity secretly behind it all" that we really don't need?

Want someone who created the Hex? Wanda.

Want someone pulling the strings? Agatha.

Want someone with a secret motive? Hawthorne.

There would just be no benefit to some last-minute addition.

I disagree. We need to know a goal instead of the goal merely for chaos / change / stryfe.

Once we have a goal, a narrative throughput then we can establish a "hierarchy of evil" and character X can be a servant of character Y or it can merely be character X. It does not matter. We just need a villian to monologue and say what was the purpose of all of this, what is the evil master plan.

Without such monologue, some through line that explains why it makes sense adding more villians is frustrating. We feel pulled along like a puppet on strings. But if we get a villian monologue and how person A is willing to sacrifice person B as part of a grand design we can suddenly be comfortable it is not 1 person but can be many like an evil Overlord with their Dragoon, or "we call it a society, a secret society" (quoting Killer Frost from A Justice League episode.)

But adding more people without ortogonal braces where we understand the nature of the threat, the nature of the goal, etc. Well it is like assembling a jenga tower, it comes toppling down.

[Draconi Redfir]

The goal is "Wanda wants an idyllic life with the man she loves". How is that not explicitly clear at this point?

Agatha and Hawthorne could use more refinement on their goals, we don't know for sure Hawthorne was trying to use Vision's body to make weapons, and we're not entirely clear what Agatha is up too, but we don't need to introduce a new character for all that.

sometimes there are no "big bad evil guys", there are just people doing things that are in conflict with other people. that's okay.

[Mordar]

The goal is "Wanda wants an idyllic life with the man she loves". How is that not explicitly clear at this point?

Agatha and Hawthorne could use more refinement on their goals, we don't know for sure Hawthorne was trying to use Vision's body to make weapons, and we're not entirely clear what Agatha is up too, but we don't need to introduce a new character for all that.

sometimes there are no "big bad evil guys", there are just people doing things that are in conflict with other people. that's okay.

Given that my recollection of AH from the books as always being someone's tool already suggests a character behind the character.

You keep using Hawthorne. I assume you mean Hayward. Given Nathaniel Hawthorne's lineage and output, I also suspect you are doing it intentionally. Or do I miss my guess?

- M

[Ramza00]

The goal is "Wanda wants an idyllic life with the man she loves". How is that not explicitly clear at this point?

That is projection, with an incomplete story, knowing how the story ends is a game of projection if the story is not finished yet. Once you realize this fact you can realize many different ways the story may end with the same "facts" already observed.

Agreed there need not be any big evil bad guys, but sometimes there are and sometimes there aren't, it is up to the writer, and we the audience are the captivated spellbound listeners till the story is finished.

-----

Edit: Today I learned that Agnes's house is the Bewitched House that they use for filming. Same house but there are some cosmetic changes with shudders, bricks, etc. It is part of the Warner Bros. Ranch's in Burbank (formerly known as Columbia Ranch) and specifically Blondie Street.

Also the exterior of Wanda's house (the interior is sets that change each episode) is the same house as the Griswold house of Christmas Vacation, but also other things “Pleasantville", “Hocus Pocus,” “American Beauty,” “Small Soldiers,” and other things.

https://filmoblivion.com/tag/warner-bros-ranch/
https://studiooperations.warnerbros.com/blondie-st/
https://www.wbspecialevents.com/port...er-bros-ranch/

[Draconi Redfir]

Given that my recollection of AH from the books as always being someone's tool already suggests a character behind the character.

In the books, the Scrulls are the bad guys.
In the books, Nick Fury is white.
In the books, Peter made his own costume.
In the books, The Mandalorian is a real thing
In the books, Mutants exist.
In the books, Stormbreaker was a hammer owned by someone who wasn't Thor
In the books, Thanos is in love with the literal embodiment of Death
In the books, Thanos' "hal of all life" plan wasn't to bring balance, it was to impress Death.
In the books, Wanda and Pietro are the children of Magnito


a LOT of things are different from the books. i think it's abundantly clear at this point that the MCU is not a 1:1 translation of the comics.

You keep using Hawthorne. I assume you mean Hayward. Given Nathaniel Hawthorne's lineage and output, I also suspect you are doing it intentionally. Or do I miss my guess?

Nope, mistake on my part sorry. didn't fully know the guy's name i guess.

[Serenity]

The goal is "Wanda wants an idyllic life with the man she loves". How is that not explicitly clear at this point?

Because we've been given loads of indications that Wanda is *not* fully in control of the Hex, may not have created it, or at least may not have created it on her own, and it's just been revealed that someone has apparently 'pulling every evil string' all along, and the actions they've been taking are working directly at cross-purposes to Wanda having an idyllic life with the man she loves--have, in fact, driven a wedge between her and the man she loves (or at least been a contributing factor), stolen Wanda's children, and pushed her into a depressive funk, and than mocked her for it asking if it's what she deserves.

Barring the revelation that 'Agatha All Along' is a double misdirect after the preceding episode seemed to disprove it, the safe bet is that Agatha has been exploiting Wanda's grief and desire to escape her trauma in pursuit of some agenda of her own--which could easily be something in service to a larger entity being set up for the MCU at large. Summoning an extradimensional entity by exploiting Wanda to disrupt the fabric of reality (and maybe using the twins as vessels or power sources) leaps to mind.

[Draconi Redfir]

a larger entity being set up for the MCU at large.

for the MCU is fine, I'm saying it's a problem when this supposed BBEG is suddenly made a prevalent major player in WandaVision specifically.

Wandavision already has all the players it needs, we don't need more.

[Keltest]

for the MCU is fine, I'm saying it's a problem when this supposed BBEG is suddenly made a prevalent major player in WandaVision specifically.

Wandavision already has all the players it needs, we don't need more.

If the focus is Wanda's psyche and relationships, i think the actual identity of the villain is something of a side point. Think Civil War. There was a villain, but he was largely a side point to the character conflicts and could have been replaced with a half dozen different candidates.

[Kitten Champion]

If the focus is Wanda's psyche and relationships, i think the actual identity of the villain is something of a side point. Think Civil War. There was a villain, but he was largely a side point to the character conflicts and could have been replaced with a half dozen different candidates.

Yeah. The central conflict in WandaVision is the existence of the Hex itself and Wanda's unwillingness to face reality. There are malefactors working to either burst Wanda's bubble from without or mess with her script and sew chaos from within, but in either case the fundamental underlying issue is Wanda doesn't want to face her pain and is willing to maintain this fantasy world even if it means harming a great number of people.

Monica Rambeau is the hero of this series - thus far - because she still sees a human being at the heart of this and is earnestly trying to help her. While the climax of the series is going to be when Wanda chooses to stop this, not when the villains are beat up.

[Ramza00]

for the MCU is fine, I'm saying it's a problem when this supposed BBEG is suddenly made a prevalent major player in WandaVision specifically.

Wandavision already has all the players it needs, we don't need more.

You are projecting saying there is a better / superior way of telling a story like the conservation of less parts means a better story than more parts.

Sometimes more is more and other times more is less. The whole idea of an extended universe with comics, or super long tv (which the MCU is, it is a tv show told in movie chunks) is you can create a “vast world” where people who watch it feel like they are gaining knowledge and meaning via the excessive amount of characters, way too many characters, yet the viewer feels rewarded for groking way too many characters.

You may not like it, but the fans who made Marvel Movies successful like it and turned it into a cult / fan phenomena that is eating up all of culture. [I am not saying I like this personally, but I am trying to describe Marvel’s success in a neutral way.]

[Draconi Redfir]

You may not like it, but the fans who made Marvel Movies successful like it and turned it into a cult / fan phenomena that is eating up all of culture. [I am not saying I like this personally, but I am trying to describe Marvel’s success in a neutral way.]

but the connections between the different marvel stories didn't happen until after the primary stories were done, or happened in the background. You didn't see Thor popping in unannounced in the middle of Iron-Man. And you didn't see Loki shift in from nowhere while Dr.Strange was trying to bargain with Dormammu. Everyone has their time to shine and their story to tell. There's a reason why the Avengers didn't get involved in "Ant man and the Wasp", because they weren't part of that story, that was a story about (surprise i know) Ant man and the Wasp. You still had reference and after-credits moments about the Avengers, but at no point did the Avengers just pop in to solve all the problems for them.

WandaVision just had it's "It was me AAALLLL ALONG!" moment where they introduce a new player, and they get a pass on that just because the player had been there from the beginning. We're two episodes away from the end of the show, having a portal open up at the start of the next episode to allow literal Satan to walk out and start monologuing about his plans for world destruction using Wanda would be a narrative punch in the gut. No warning, no setup, no nothing. The show already has everything it needs to build a great story, why on earth would the writers pull a narrative suicide of introducing some unneeded, unwanted, and destructive force that simply has no place into the show? Leave that stuff for the end-credits scene of the final episode, or have someone talk about it but don't have it actually come up if you want to leave a hook for future MCU stuff. We already have that "Astrophysicist" thing hanging that may or may not be picked up, and that's a loose thread that was mentioned in episode five, not a sudden entirely new character showing up in the middle of episodes eight or nine.

[Cikomyr2]

We're two episodes away from the end of the show, having a portal open up at the start of the next episode to allow literal Satan to walk out and start monologuing about his plans for world destruction using Wanda would be a narrative punch in the gut.

Worst of all, it would be boring because there would have been no engagement with that character or its agenda.

You can have a villain pop at the end, and as long as you realize the agenda of that villain is intrinsically linked to the overall structure and theme of the story said, it can work.

But Mephisto who wants to conquer the world. Or just have Wanda allegiance? Weaaaaak

[Dragonus45]

Yeah. The central conflict in WandaVision is the existence of the Hex itself and Wanda's unwillingness to face reality. There are malefactors working to either burst Wanda's bubble from without or mess with her script and sew chaos from within, but in either case the fundamental underlying issue is Wanda doesn't want to face her pain and is willing to maintain this fantasy world even if it means harming a great number of people.

Monica Rambeau is the hero of this series - thus far - because she still sees a human being at the heart of this and is earnestly trying to help her. While the climax of the series is going to be when Wanda chooses to stop this, not when the villains are beat up.

IF she choses to stop. I'm still on board with the theory that Wanda might be showing up as an antagonistic force in The Multiverse of Madness

[Starbuck_II]

IF she choses to stop. I'm still on board with the theory that Wanda might be showing up as an antagonistic force in The Multiverse of Madness

Or Wanda is powerless.
Agatha steals all her magic.
They defeat Agatha but Wanda's magic feels foreign to her and she has to start over training.
Doctor Strange appears and is willing to reteach her how to use it.

Which is a great step into The Multiverse of Madness. I mean, what if they don't defeat her, Baron Mordo does?
Remember, he made it his mission to kill all mages/magic users in last movie.
Only trouble is how did he get inside to kill Agatha?

[Psyren]

There would just be no benefit to some last-minute addition.

You have no way of knowing what benefit there would be until it happens, if it happens. That's all there is to it.

Yeah. The central conflict in WandaVision is the existence of the Hex itself and Wanda's unwillingness to face reality. There are malefactors working to either burst Wanda's bubble from without or mess with her script and sew chaos from within, but in either case the fundamental underlying issue is Wanda doesn't want to face her pain and is willing to maintain this fantasy world even if it means harming a great number of people.

Monica Rambeau is the hero of this series - thus far - because she still sees a human being at the heart of this and is earnestly trying to help her. While the climax of the series is going to be when Wanda chooses to stop this, not when the villains are beat up.

Exactly. This won't end until Wanda is willing to face the music. The overarching villain (whoever that may be) and their motivations are ultimately secondary to that.

[Ramza00]

Drinks a morning coffee and drops an argument for I am tired of this rancorous thing.

Instead shares a Chris Claremont thought from 8 days ago, since it sparks joy. Warning it has spoilers if you are not familiar with the comics.

https://m.facebook.com/chris.claremo...24407769522723

[Serenity]

but the connections between the different marvel stories didn't happen until after the primary stories were done, or happened in the background. You didn't see Thor popping in unannounced in the middle of Iron-Man. And you didn't see Loki shift in from nowhere while Dr.Strange was trying to bargain with Dormammu. Everyone has their time to shine and their story to tell. There's a reason why the Avengers didn't get involved in "Ant man and the Wasp", because they weren't part of that story, that was a story about (surprise i know) Ant man and the Wasp. You still had reference and after-credits moments about the Avengers, but at no point did the Avengers just pop in to solve all the problems for them.

WandaVision just had it's "It was me AAALLLL ALONG!" moment where they introduce a new player, and they get a pass on that just because the player had been there from the beginning. We're two episodes away from the end of the show, having a portal open up at the start of the next episode to allow literal Satan to walk out and start monologuing about his plans for world destruction using Wanda would be a narrative punch in the gut. No warning, no setup, no nothing. The show already has everything it needs to build a great story, why on earth would the writers pull a narrative suicide of introducing some unneeded, unwanted, and destructive force that simply has no place into the show? Leave that stuff for the end-credits scene of the final episode, or have someone talk about it but don't have it actually come up if you want to leave a hook for future MCU stuff. We already have that "Astrophysicist" thing hanging that may or may not be picked up, and that's a loose thread that was mentioned in episode five, not a sudden entirely new character showing up in the middle of episodes eight or nine.

You're continuing to set up a strawman for how the reveal of Mephisto or whoever
could go. No one has suggested 'a portal opens up out of nowhere at the start of the next episdoe.' If there is a portal, I wouldn't expect it until at least the *end* of next episode, after spending it setting up Agatha's motivations for opening it and her connection to whoever/whatever is on the other side. (Probably with a joke about 'Did you think Ralph was just another sitcom gag, dear?' or something along those lines.)

I'm not saying it *will* happen, but you seem oddly invested in insisting that it *won't*, and kind of misrepresenting theories that it will.

[Draconi Redfir]

I'm not saying it *will* happen, but you seem oddly invested in insisting that it *won't*, and kind of misrepresenting theories that it will.

honestly, i blame homestuck.

first 4/5ths of the entire story set up villain A as the big bad. He kills each major character at least twice, destroys multiple planets, destroys multiple universes, and everyone has a reason to want him dead.

aaaand then villain B kinda pops in from nowhere after having only been a red-herring from years ago made to make people not suspect Villain A back in the day, and now everyone and every character is all "Ohh Villain B is so bad, Villain B needs to go down!" Completely ignoring Villain A who they all have a personal grudge against.

so the entire finale of the webcomic is set up to taking down villain B who has really done absolutely nothing of value this entire time, while Villain A who was actually an antagonist for the entire story, gets a two-minute battle and a five-second redemption arc.


People obsessing over Villain B when Villain A is RIGHT THERE has left a sour taste in my mouth ever since.

[theNater]

You're continuing to set up a strawman for how the reveal of Mephisto or whoever
could go. No one has suggested 'a portal opens up out of nowhere at the start of the next episdoe.' If there is a portal, I wouldn't expect it until at least the *end* of next episode, after spending it setting up Agatha's motivations for opening it and her connection to whoever/whatever is on the other side. (Probably with a joke about 'Did you think Ralph was just another sitcom gag, dear?' or something along those lines.)

I'm not saying it *will* happen, but you seem oddly invested in insisting that it *won't*, and kind of misrepresenting theories that it will.

Near as I can tell, Draconi Redfir is primarily reacting to Bugbear's pessimistic predictions.

For example:

The big problem is they will toss out and utterly forget about all the drama....even more so the really negative things. Who/whatever the big bad is will just come in...laugh...and spam big fight.

[Rodin]

If the focus is Wanda's psyche and relationships, i think the actual identity of the villain is something of a side point. Think Civil War. There was a villain, but he was largely a side point to the character conflicts and could have been replaced with a half dozen different candidates.

I mean...kinda? Zemo had to be a very specific type of character for Civil War to work. He had to be a non-super. He had to have a grudge against the Avengers. Most importantly, he had to have a grudge that was at least semi-justified. You couldn't have stuck Zola or made the dude from the beginning into the main villains because they were already villainous. The movie goes deep into the argument about whether the Avengers are doing the right thing and you lose that without a sympathetic villain.

You technically could have had a more standard villain but Zemo is what made the movie shine. It's why I hope Wanda is acting alone - I think it makes for a better story. I don't really expect it at this point. I'm also not ruling out the story using a villain and doing so really really well. They did it in Civil War, after all.

I'm just eager to find out at this point.

[Keltest]

I mean...kinda? Zemo had to be a very specific type of character for Civil War to work. He had to be a non-super. He had to have a grudge against the Avengers. Most importantly, he had to have a grudge that was at least semi-justified. You couldn't have stuck Zola or made the dude from the beginning into the main villains because they were already villainous. The movie goes deep into the argument about whether the Avengers are doing the right thing and you lose that without a sympathetic villain.

You technically could have had a more standard villain but Zemo is what made the movie shine. It's why I hope Wanda is acting alone - I think it makes for a better story. I don't really expect it at this point. I'm also not ruling out the story using a villain and doing so really really well. They did it in Civil War, after all.

I'm just eager to find out at this point.

Really? Because i didnt find Zemo to be particularly interesting or sympathetic at all. He exists to give Cap and Tony an excuse to fight, but the seeds of that particular conflict have been building since the first Avengers movie. Heck, the movie didnt even really need a villain, they could easily have been fighting over Bucky and Wanda without any sort of outside prompting.

[Draconi Redfir]

I'm with Keltest on this one, Zemo kinda felt like he just didn't belong in the movie. 90% of the plot was either about the Accords and/or a runaway Bucky anyways. The only major thing i can think of Zemo doing is revealing to Tony that Bucky killed his parents, which I'm sure could have been done even without Zemo. Maybe during the airport fight, Bucky's arm gets damaged or something and some kind of residual mental-programing compels him to go to some location to get it fixed, the location is abandoned, but contains all sorts of information on the Winter Soldier's past attacks, including the Starks. Or just don't reveal that information at all, that'd work too.