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Thread: WandaVision

  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Originally Posted by Cikomyr2
    I personally don't think the entire season will be 50s sitcom Schtick. If anything, the show will probably evolve as Wanda... Wakes?
    Spoiler: Waking
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    I think that’s why they gave us the first two episodes together, so we’d know that there’s more to it than just Wanda and Vision floating through a 50s dreamworld. The first episode sets up the dreamworld, the second shows us the first hints of something beyond.

    In the second episode, at the planning meeting for the talent show, there was a voice coming through the radio calling to Wanda, but I couldn’t make out whose it was. Clearly there’s someone outside of her consciousness trying to get in, not sure who yet.


    Spoiler: Also...
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    Now for some pure speculation: I’m wondering if we might see a Clint cameo. He’s had something of a mentor relationship with Wanda ever since Sokovia, and Jeremy Renner is already signed for Disney+ on the Hawkeye series. Introducing Clint, even briefly, could both reference Wanda’s connection to him as well as serve as a reminder of Clint’s own series, the way Ahsoka’s appearance in The Mandalorian served as a teaser for her upcoming series.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    As for Wanda, she spoke excellent English before she met the Avengers, and she must have learned that from somewhere. And as noted above, she and Vision might have had TV nights at the Avengers compound.
    Given they shared a team with Captain America, who would have needed to be brought up to speed on the decades he missed somehow, TV night at the Avengers’ compound seems more than plausible to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
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    In the second episode, at the planning meeting for the talent show, there was a voice coming through the radio calling to Wanda, but I couldn’t make out whose it was. Clearly there’s someone outside of her consciousness trying to get in, not sure who yet.
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    Reviews I’ve read suggest it was Jimmy Woo (the police person from the second Ant Man).

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga View Post
    Given they shared a team with Captain America, who would have needed to be brought up to speed on the decades he missed somehow, TV night at the Avengers’ compound seems more than plausible to me.



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    Reviews I’ve read suggest it was Jimmy Woo (the police person from the second Ant Man).
    I think if Cap had had the pick of the night, him picking a 50s sitcom like Bewitched to watch for the first time would totally be jn character.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
    Given they shared a team with Captain America, who would have needed to be brought up to speed on the decades he missed somehow, TV night at the Avengers’ compound seems more than plausible to me.
    And for Cap, any TV shows from the 50s would have been especially relevant, since that’s the world he would have returned to after the war.

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    (And in a sense, he did, since he was living the 50s suburban life at the end of Endgame.)


    Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
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    Reviews I’ve read suggest it was Jimmy Woo (the police person from the second Ant Man).
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    I didn’t want to believe this, but a glance at IMDB suggests it’s true.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antediluvian View Post
    I just don't understand who this is for... what's the target audience? Is there really a demand from super hero movie fans to have a 50's sitcom show?
    I don't get it either. Why?

    What is really missing is the framing device. Star Trek and Supernatural often have done "trapped in another reality of a TV show" type episodes, but you have the frame of the characters knowing they are in a fake reality and are trying to escape.

    The whole idea of pretending to be normal looses all of it's bite when it does not matter at all.

    Wanda has had at least 20 years to watch American TV. That is plenty of time for her to watch Bewitched on her local Skalovian TV channel. I'll bet she has seen Baywatch and Friends too...

    Could be aliens...maybe another Elder of the Universe: The Couch Potato!


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    I guess as it is a fantasy that explains why Wanda has the power to alter reality, when in the MCU just just had telekinesis? And whatever that weird mind game power was from Age of Ultron, but really we only ever see the red telekinesis.

    We do get some references to the 80's Wanda and Vision limited series, like Wanda having a babies and the team of Illusion and Glamour (though they were separate characters in the comics).

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    I don't think the question is "why do they want to escape and appear normal in 1950s suburban american", but "why do they want to escape an appear normal in 1950s suburban America"

    Like, the Doylist reason is because they wanted to make a 50s sitcom parody with heavy Betwitched references. But I think it makes no sense for the MCU characters. Wanda is an eastern European. Vision was made from JARVIS.
    Think of them as gay characters trying to fit in, for they crave what they did not have, what was denied them, and thus they self-closeted in Bewitched the tv show and the earlier 1958 film Bell, Book, And Candle (which was originally a 1950 play)

    Back then in yore, Bewitched was not about gay characters (though it can be seen that way) but how other whites (such as Eastern Europeans) were trying to integrate and fit into the WASPy snobbish Whites of a different culture who were suspicious and skeptical of new neighbors that came from different cultures. There is this paranoia, and thus people both tried to actuality themselves but also live in a form of a closet. And the Bewitched magic is about hiding ones gifts in order to fit in.

    (Once you get this, the whole nick at nite series is extremely dark like a twilight zone episode I mentioned in the spoiler blocks. There is a tension to this American Dream ideal that was sold that was not in the sales pitch but was in the pamphlets they handed out but in small letters, like a drug side effects that via regulation they must be pointed out so drug marketers and salespeople figure out ways to hide it like some form of Stepford Wives horror)

    Edit just as a reminder.

    • I Love Lucy (The first Lucy show) is 1951 to 1957.
    • The D.ick Van Dyke Show is 1961 to 1966. This is the greatest influence of the first two episode such as the set design and front door is meant to remind you of this older show. D.ick Van Dyke who is now 95, consulted for WandaVISION and there are interviews where D.ick says he was clueless of how much Marvel Movies were so successful and how they influenced the culture for the last 10 years.
    • Bewitched is 1964 to 1972. Like others have said this show and others were famous in reruns and syndication on basic cable in the 90s and 00s. Thus we are seeing a 30 year nostalgia chain when those shows were successful for they were cheap to syndicate for they were 20 to 30 years old and parents watched them with young kids, and now 20 to 30 years later the kids are now adults in their 40s and 50s green-lighting projects.
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2021-01-17 at 02:38 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Ya know, I suspect that "a woman with magical power persecuted by her neighbours trying to keep a lid on it and be happy" might have strict a chord with Wyrd Wanda, the Scarlet Witch

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    I've not watched any of this but I do have some questions
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    The Beekeeper might be wearing a protective suit similar to AIM to help protect them inside wherever Wanda is being held within.

    My guess she was snatched and they established that set up to help her cope as she is clearly unstable and think helping her recover is the easiest way to recruit her.

    However something went wrong, given the Space Stone gave Carol Danvers powers that look more like they came from the Power Stone perhaps the Mind Stone gave Wanda access to the Reality Stone despite her telekinetic abilities.

    So their attempt causes her to regress quite literally warping reality sealing the area in a dome thats drawn SWORD's attention who are trying to investigate however it had also drawn the interest of certain entities of whom Agness is one.


    Only time will tell where they go with this, but it sounds much better than I expected!

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    Default Re: WandaVision

    I'm definitely interested to see where they're going with it. I think perhaps they've played their cards a little close to their chest (see all the people in this thread taking it entirely at face value - you didn't notice all the hints that it wasn't just a sitcom pastiche, folks? really?) but i'm at least willing to keep up with it and see where it's going, so long as it doesn't take too long to get there.
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  10. - Top - End - #40
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    I don't think anyone thought this was just going to be a sitcom pastiche. It's just odd that THIS seems to be where Wanda wants to be. We'll see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard View Post
    I don't think anyone thought this was just going to be a sitcom pastiche. It's just odd that THIS seems to be where Wanda wants to be. We'll see.
    No, some people in the first page of the thread were outright saying the 50s Schtick style wasn't a good one and they didn't like the show because of it.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Originally Posted by Sapphire Guard
    I don't think anyone thought this was just going to be a sitcom pastiche.
    Yeah, I don’t think anyone believes this will be a show about Wanda and Vision having a sappy 50s life.

    Originally Posted by Cikomyr2
    No, some people in the first page of the thread were outright saying the 50s Schtick style wasn't a good one and they didn't like the show because of it.
    It's possible to not like the style and still recognize this is a dreamworld Wanda has generated, and that we’ll eventually work out who or what is involved.

    They’ve clearly spent a lot of effort recreating the 50s aesthetic. So far I find it somewhere between tedious and grating, and the only enjoyment has been watching Olsen and Bettany pull off some excellent performances.

    That doesn’t mean I’m not expecting a whole series of reveals, veil by veil and layer by layer, but I hope they pick up the pace a little bit.

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    And, looking at IMDB, it seems that Randall Park is credited as Jimmy Woo starting in episode 3, so there’s some hope that we’ll get more of the outside world coming through. It seems a little too obvious for him to appear as one of the residents of Happyville, but maybe he’ll show up on TV?

    As for TV, I’m betting the commercial for the next episode will feature an Ultron reference.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    My understanding is that the style and aesthetic of the show is going to change with each episode.
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    The first episode was a 50s sitcom, both in terms of visual style (the clothes they wear, the design of their house) and in terms of the plot/dialogue. "Very Important Dinner Party for the Boss" being a typical plotline for an I Love Lucy era sitcom.

    The switch to color at the end of the 2nd episode is because color TV started being a thing in the 60s, with the 60s informing the visual and narrative style of the second episode.

    Presumably the 3rd episode will be a sitcom from the 70s, the 4th the 80s, the 5th the 90s, and the 6th the 2000s.
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  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    No, some people in the first page of the thread were outright saying the 50s Schtick style wasn't a good one and they didn't like the show because of it.
    I'm not sure the discussion was that harsh. I mentioned I don't have a lot of affection for the material, so when they're acting out something that could have been lifted from an episode of "Bewitched" it does nothing for me.

    But I recognize there's more going on here and I'm really interested in seeing where this is going. I might have wished for more hints as to what's going on, but given the mini-series nature of the plot that means a slower burn than a movie might have

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    Thinking about the 5 act structure vs 3 act structure and how we have 6ish hours* to play with instead of 2 hours* (the MCU movies are 112 to 136 minutes long if we ignore the Avengers movies and Civil War which was effectively an Avengers movie)

    We have 9 episodes to "PLAY" with, and thus we can do things that bore some people, but also allows us more time to decompress. The first 3 episodes are about 30 minutes long, but the remaining 6 are going to have variable run time and thus about 4 and a half hours between them bringing the total to 6ish hours per interviews.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antediluvian View Post
    I just don't understand who this is for... what's the target audience? Is there really a demand from super hero movie fans to have a 50's sitcom show?
    As already addressed, it isn't. We're in media res, sharing the confusion that Wanda and Vision face as the trappings erode.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    First of all, Bewitched Nostalgia is a thing for early Gen Y who watched syndication TV when they were young.

    Second, there is a dystopia feel/mystery to the whole piece. I personally don't think the entire season will be 50s sitcom Schtick. If anything, the show will probably evolve as Wanda... Wakes?
    Without spoiling, my wife and I believe we have already seen...evolution?...in the first two episodes. As has been mentioned, the "schtick" is pulling from multiple sources and it feels very much to us like the sources have already moved forward in a timeline. Note the wardrobe choices and the general presentation style. Now I want to rewatch specifically for the vehicles. Their car in the open was definitely 50s, and I think early 50s. See also Spoiler element #1.

    Spoiler: Specific references
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    1. Pushing the beds together seems a particularly intentional sequence, strongly suggesting to me moving forward in TV era
    2. Color transition will fit in perfectly with that theme as well

      On the hexagons and bees:
    3. I originally thought the hexagon motif was, well, a hex motif, because that was the naming convention used for her powers in the 70s/80s. The Scarlet Witch hexed things...does that play with the beekeeper? They don't have to be linked, but it makes sense if they are, so now I'm leaning more towards it being a hexagon and not a hex reference.
    4. The beekeeper could be a debugging sort of thing...but I thought of Hive. Had to review, and it appears he is a Stucker creation. Still a possibility for MCU as he may have made Hive before AoU, or he may have Still, that's more an amalgam of people as opposed to a bee-inspired character, so not sure.

      Symbols
    5. The symbol on the helicopter also made me think of SWORD immediately...and while the symbol isn't a perfect fit, it seems similar and kinda looks like the Peak to me. Fits well with our last teaser of Fury and the expectation that we'll see more of the universe in coming MCU films.
    6. Stark and Strucker commercials - not sure how many casual fans will understand the Strucker reference, but everyone will get the Stark nod. We need a third, though, to start being able to speculate because these two are effectively Vision and Wanda's "creators".

      Other
    7. Vision's boss - his intense, angry reaction and interrogation about why Wanda and Vis came to that place really stands out to me. Kitty stays sort of in character, but the Boss departs from what was shown us as the norm, and then gets "rebooted"(?) by choking and then being rescued by Vision. Was this an avatar temporarily controlled by an active person, a glitching NPC or something else?



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    Default Re: WandaVision

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    Wasn't the beekeeper wearing the same sword insignia as the helicopter?

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    Two Beds was a Hayes code thing.

    Men and Women could be married and have sex [not shown on screen], but rule 19 of 25 stated you have to have good taste and end vulgarity and suggestiveness of men and women in the same bed even if they were married.

    Thus it was just easier to have seperate beds for married couples for you weren't going to have any issue of a prude saying you are trying to do something scandalous in your movie even though two people were obviously married and found each other horny. Note there were several other rules involving sex, such as no rape and so on, but also things like do not be too suggestive of the first night of marriage if a man and women get married.

    It was a different time
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Two Beds was a Hayes code thing.

    Men and Women could be married and have sex [not shown on screen], but rule 19 of 25 stated you have to have good taste and end vulgarity and suggestiveness of men and women in the same bed even if they were married.

    Thus it was just easier to have seperate beds for married couples for you weren't going to have any issue of a prude saying you are trying to do something scandalous in your movie even though two people were obviously married and found each other horny. Note there were several other rules involving sex, such as no rape and so on, but also things like do not be too suggestive of the first night of marriage if a man and women get married.

    It was a different time
    Right, and the pushing them together was a nod to that history and a step forward in time (in my thinking).

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    It reminds me of something I once heard, that Roddenberry had to fight to have women crewmen and officers on the Enterprise for the original Star Trek. Executives were worried that audiences might conclude if there were women on board a starship, they might be engaging in hanky-panky!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    It reminds me of something I once heard, that Roddenberry had to fight to have women crewmen and officers on the Enterprise for the original Star Trek. Executives were worried that audiences might conclude if there were women on board a starship, they might be engaging in hanky-panky!
    You might also notice the unusual lack of bathrooms on many shows from the 50s and early 60s. People might have thought TV characters excreted bodily waste had they shown something as uncouth as a toilet!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbear View Post
    The whole idea of pretending to be normal looses all of it's bite when it does not matter at all.
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    That's because you're not supposed to be focusing on that. Them pretending to be normal is the focus of the faux sitcom they're in, and the plot of that sitcom does not matter in and of itself. It's just emulating old sitcoms like Bewitched where hiding magical powers was a central part of the comedy.

    What you should be looking at is how the sitcom characters act. The way they pause for a joke, then act confused when one doesn't come, and then laugh anyway. Wanda and Vision failing to be normal as part of the sitcom raises no questions, as the world runs on sitcom logic. When they DO act like a normal person (instead of a sitcom character) the world comes to a screeching halt until the invisible force controlling things forces the sitcom characters back on track.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    You might also notice the unusual lack of bathrooms on many shows from the 50s and early 60s. People might have thought TV characters excreted bodily waste had they shown something as uncouth as a toilet!

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    Hitchcock put a toilet (and toilet flush) into Psycho specifically to push the censors. He made the toilet part of the plot (it's where Janet Leigh destroys the evidence of her bank fraud) so it was difficult to remove. His strategy was to make their job more difficult in order to get them to relent on other things. It worked - he had to rework a few camera shots, but he got them to accept both the toilet and the famous shower murder.

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Changing the subject but it is very much on subject. One of the reasons why Breaking Bad was such a success at the time is how small cameras that could get fabulous images allowed the use of many shots that were not possible in a practical way prior to it on a TV Budget. You can do things like put a camera in the stove, or the cupboard and see the image reversed where a protagonist characters gets an intimate view of them doing a banal task like opening the cupboards or cooking something on the stove. If I understand correctly the technical term is "Object Point of ViewPoV Shots"

    Likewise there are other types of camera works such as Time-Lapses, Wide Angle Shots, and Wide and Closed. The last is kind of a combination of a PoV Shot and a Wide Angle since you have an object foreground with detail, and the background out of focus in the wide shot. Well Wide and Closed is often used right before an action scene where there is sudden kineticism and dynamism.

    -----

    I bring this up for we see both multi-camera sitcom scenes, and single-camera sitcom scenes that are so familiar to the genre. Sitcoms in some ways being adaption of comedic stage plays that came before.

    But we also see other scenes shot with a "horror" style with the Camerawork, we can feel something is off in WandaVISION and we do not know what, and via camera work and other things like editing, music, and sound design we help create this sense of dread and possibly terror.

    -----

    Sorry for the nerdy stuff I just feel it is relevant for the discussion. We are seeing peoples intimate lives and not just stuff in the bathroom.
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    I think it's very relevant. Something I saw pointed out elsewhere is how the camera work is tied to the sitcom. When we have standard sitcom hijinks it stays with either the single camera shot or a very simple multi camera shot like you would see in sitcoms of the era. When people start acting out of character the camera changes and we get a more modern style.

    I greatly enjoyed the first two episodes because I grew up with old re-runs of these sitcoms and can recognize just how off a lot of it is. A lot of work went into making the sitcom feel off-putting and surreal. There's a lot of subtlety in the facial expressions and timing of line delivery.

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    I think the show is thrilling, funny, and technically brilliant. The two leads have fantastic chemistry as well. I'm looking forward to where they take it next!

    It's a slow burn, like Sense8 or the OA - but I tend to like shows like that when the mystery is something I'm keen to discover, and this definitely qualifies.
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Anyone notice the
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    little girl from Captain Marvel is all grown up now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starbuck_II View Post
    Anyone notice the
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    little girl from Captain Marvel is all grown up now?
    Yep, previews have been pretty open about who she's supposed to be. The bigger question is how she got into Wanda's "show."

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    Without spoiling, my wife and I believe we have already seen...evolution?...in the first two episodes. As has been mentioned, the "schtick" is pulling from multiple sources and it feels very much to us like the sources have already moved forward in a timeline. Note the wardrobe choices and the general presentation style. Now I want to rewatch specifically for the vehicles. Their car in the open was definitely 50s, and I think early 50s. See also Spoiler element #1.

    Spoiler: Specific references
    Show
    1. Pushing the beds together seems a particularly intentional sequence, strongly suggesting to me moving forward in TV era
    2. Color transition will fit in perfectly with that theme as well

      On the hexagons and bees:
    3. I originally thought the hexagon motif was, well, a hex motif, because that was the naming convention used for her powers in the 70s/80s. The Scarlet Witch hexed things...does that play with the beekeeper? They don't have to be linked, but it makes sense if they are, so now I'm leaning more towards it being a hexagon and not a hex reference.
    4. The beekeeper could be a debugging sort of thing...but I thought of Hive. Had to review, and it appears he is a Stucker creation. Still a possibility for MCU as he may have made Hive before AoU, or he may have Still, that's more an amalgam of people as opposed to a bee-inspired character, so not sure.

      Symbols
    5. The symbol on the helicopter also made me think of SWORD immediately...and while the symbol isn't a perfect fit, it seems similar and kinda looks like the Peak to me. Fits well with our last teaser of Fury and the expectation that we'll see more of the universe in coming MCU films.
    6. Stark and Strucker commercials - not sure how many casual fans will understand the Strucker reference, but everyone will get the Stark nod. We need a third, though, to start being able to speculate because these two are effectively Vision and Wanda's "creators".

      Other
    7. Vision's boss - his intense, angry reaction and interrogation about why Wanda and Vis came to that place really stands out to me. Kitty stays sort of in character, but the Boss departs from what was shown us as the norm, and then gets "rebooted"(?) by choking and then being rescued by Vision. Was this an avatar temporarily controlled by an active person, a glitching NPC or something else?



    - M
    Couple of responses here:

    Spoiler
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    1) Yes, we went from 50s to 60s between eps 1 and 2. The dress and hair, the practical effects in the kitchen changing, going from a **** Van Dyke intro to a more Bewitched style etc.

    2) The signifcance of the hexagon is currently unknown. Older CRT televisions had hexagon-shaped pixels so it may simply be that, or could even be a reference to the six inifinity stones (Wanda has, at one time or another in the movies, exhibited basically all their powers.)

    3) SWORD in the MCU is slightly different than in the comics - instead of "Sentient World Observation & Response Department" it was changed to "Sentient Weapon Observation & Response Division." In other words, they may not be primarily aimed at extreterrestrial threats anymore like they are there. I don't disagree that they plan to reveal more of the space side of the MCU (Guardians 3 and Captain Marvel 2 are pretty well-placed to do just that, not to mention Doctor Strange 2), but this new version of SWORD monitoring Wanda makes a bit more sense with this change, especially if the "Sentient Weapons" they're watching out for include AI like Vision and Ultron.

    4) Even if fans forget who Strucker was, there is a Hydra logo right there on the watch in the "commercial" anyway. As for the significance of both ads, she is a product of both Stark (the unexploded shell she and her brother were trapped with as children) and Hydra (the experiments that gave her her powers) technology.

    5) It's worth noting that she looks directly at Vision's boss before he starts choking - while speculation, this suggests that she did that him to cut off his insistent line of questioning that was poking holes in her carefully crafted reality. In addition, Vision phasing into his windpipe to save him was the episode's major break with the 50s-era practical effects for the rest of their powers for modern CGI.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
    Ext. Sig (Handbooks/Creations)

  28. - Top - End - #58
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Originally Posted by Starbuck_II
    Anyone notice....
    I hadn't spotted this. Can you refresh me on who this is?

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    I assume you mean the daughter of Carole Danvers' fighter pilot friend? Who is she in Wanda's world?

    Also, I assume the character is the same, but with a new actress?
    Last edited by Palanan; 2021-01-19 at 04:01 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    JadedDM's Avatar

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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I hadn't spotted this. Can you refresh me on who this is?

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    I assume you mean the daughter of Carole Danvers' fighter pilot friend? Who is she in Wanda's world?
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    The woman who got sucked into Vision's magic act, and got teleported into his 'cabinet of mysteries.'

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Titan in the Playground
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    Feb 2011

    Default Re: WandaVision

    Interesting, thanks. I hadn't picked up on her name.

    Spoiler: Also...
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    On the topic of hexagons, I feel like it's intended to be a representation of Wanda's containment.

    She reacted with defensive instinct when she saw the Beekeeper, so perhaps he's something or someone keeping her imprisoned. As soon as she saw him, she "rewound" her own tape and retreated back into her own world. The hexagon as honeycomb icon would seem to support that.

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