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Thread: WandaVision

  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    My main thought after Episode 4 was that anybody who doesn't care for the gimmick in the first three episodes can safely skip those.

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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Quote Originally Posted by Zalabim View Post
    My main thought after Episode 4 was that anybody who doesn't care for the gimmick in the first three episodes can safely skip those.
    If you want to skip fun, sure you can skip it!
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2021-01-30 at 10:22 AM.
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Alright, my old theory was crap (holograms? really? So dumb), but new theory!

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    So, we know Earth was ground zero for 2 massive bursts of energy of ridiculously cosmic proportions and that the tv transmission is nestled in some energy similar to that put out by the big bang. My thinking is that Snapping twice on Earth swiss cheesed reality a bit and "Westview" is a beachhead for something trying to break into reality proper, but they need Wanda to create bodies capable of surviving. Wanda didn't spontaneously develop reality warping powers, but she can control everything in Westview because it's flooded with the same kind of energy the Stones give off, so she can manipulate it in the same way she could destroy the mind stone.
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  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Was Wanda abducted and brought there or went there and that's when that energy boost happened?

    From whats been said I assumed she might have been invited and used as the focus for that energy field which might actually stretch back into the past to explain Agatha's presence as she should be very old but might have escaped whatever fate would have happened to her via this unexpected event?

    Now Wanda appears to be controlling it somewhat, but how likely is it she was actually abducted and they lost control of her?

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sholos View Post
    Darcy won me over when her response to Thor was to tase him. Loved her ever since. I love that they've made her a full on astrophysicist while retaining the levels of snark.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Yep, in less than a minute Darcy re-evaluated the situation several times.

    Good survival instincts on this girl! And now she is a PhD scientist plus still she remains extremely practical. Good rogue to have on your science team full of paladins.
    Talk about deus ex machina. We are given two movies where she is clearly self-absorbed, childlike and as far from interested in hard science as can be imagined...and now she is the astrophysicist SWORD calls in to assess this anomaly? Her resume is summed up by the line "I knew Jane Foster and Thor." Tough for me to buy it. Just going to chew scenery and take away from the actual story.

    MCU needs to dial back on the snarky know-it-all. Tony Stark, Shuri and Stephen Strange are enough. Throwing in a third-rate d-lister is unnecessary. Plus she doesn't even have a name that starts with "S".

    - M

    PS: Even without her inclusion, I felt let down by the amount of "outside" time this episode featured.
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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Originally Posted by Devonix
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    I love how this latest episode completely destroyed most people's theories on the show. Bee Keeper has nothing to do with Aim.
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    True, although I did manage one modest prediction:

    Originally Posted by Palanan
    I find it interesting that the Beekeeper was coming up through a manhole, which might suggest someone trying to get in for recon underneath the barrier.
    Which is pretty much what they were doing.


    Originally Posted by Mordar
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    We are given two movies where [Darcy] is clearly self-absorbed, childlike and as far from interested in hard science as can be imagined...and now she is the astrophysicist SWORD calls in to assess this anomaly?
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    We haven’t seen her in five years realtime, and probably longer in the MCU. If she wasn’t snapped, then she’s had enough time to earn a Ph.D. That may not be “research astrophysicist,” but “Jane Foster’s chief assistant” is probably enough to get her in the door.

    Also, as someone who’s dealt with S.H.I.E.L.D. before, she might be better positioned to work with S.W.O.R.D. than some random postdoc in Des Moines.

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
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    We haven’t seen her in five years realtime, and probably longer in the MCU. If she wasn’t snapped, then she’s had enough time to earn a Ph.D. That may not be “research astrophysicist,” but “Jane Foster’s chief assistant” is probably enough to get her in the door.

    Also, as someone who’s dealt with S.H.I.E.L.D. before, she might be better positioned to work with S.W.O.R.D. than some random postdoc in Des Moines.
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    IIRC Thor: Dark World was in 2013 and post-Endgame was 2023, so ten years to get her doctorate. Though she was a political science major initially, which makes it a little more odd, but possibly meeting Thor and the associated craziness was sufficient to get her to change majors?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    Talk about deus ex machina. We are given two movies where she is clearly self-absorbed, childlike and as far from interested in hard science as can be imagined...and now she is the astrophysicist SWORD calls in to assess this anomaly? Her resume is summed up by the line "I knew Jane Foster and Thor." Tough for me to buy it. Just going to chew scenery and take away from the actual story.

    MCU needs to dial back on the snarky know-it-all. Tony Stark, Shuri and Stephen Strange are enough. Throwing in a third-rate d-lister is unnecessary. Plus she doesn't even have a name that starts with "S".

    - M

    PS: Even without her inclusion, I felt let down by the amount of "outside" time this episode featured.
    Lots of 30 year old people are very different than their 20 year old selves.

    Lots of late 20s people are different than their teenage self from 10 years earlier.

    In the MCU about 12 years have passed since Thor 1 (which took place in 2011 but Endgame skips the timeline 4 years forward due to the Snap and thus 2019 our time is 2023 MCU time.) Thus if Darcy Lewis was 18 to 22 in Thor 1 (usual years of undergrad) that means she is now 30 to 34 in Wandavision.

    The real life actress is now 34.

    -----

    Lots of "party boys" I know in Freshman in College become Medical Doctors but also Science Doctors later on. Why should we expect any different from the women in our fictional worlds? Especially since Bruce Banner has 7 PhDs. SEVEN!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Lots of 30 year old people are very different than their 20 year old selves.

    Lots of late 20s people are different than their teenage self from 10 years earlier.

    In the MCU about 12 years have passed since Thor 1 (which took place in 2011 but Endgame skips the timeline 4 years forward due to the Snap and thus 2019 our time is 2023 MCU time.) Thus if Darcy Lewis was 18 to 22 in Thor 1 (usual years of undergrad) that means she is now 30 to 34 in Wandavision.

    The real life actress is now 34.
    Certainly conceivable. I'd start the clock from Dark World, though, since she was still pretty much the same at that point, so that maybe trims a couple years. There are reasons it makes sense (SWORD not willing to bring in "uninitiated" folks who might be significantly-to-overwhelmingly more capable, Jane not being available, this still being considered a lower-tier assignment, etc) but I don't have to like it.

    [footstomp]And I won't![/footstomp]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    Certainly conceivable. I'd start the clock from Dark World, though, since she was still pretty much the same at that point, so that maybe trims a couple years. There are reasons it makes sense (SWORD not willing to bring in "uninitiated" folks who might be significantly-to-overwhelmingly more capable, Jane not being available, this still being considered a lower-tier assignment, etc) but I don't have to like it.

    [footstomp]And I won't![/footstomp]

    - M
    I hear you, but I also read Dark World differently than the way I intuit you read it. I am doing this from memory and I should rewatch it.

    But Darcy in Dark World is over the top in a way that she no longer feels comfrotable in Thor 1 Darcy's skin.

    She now feels science interesting in Thor 2 Dark World, she is actually pay attention more to things than Jane Foster / Natalie Portman. She doesn't know what the things are [yet], but she finds it interesting in her 2 year earlier self from Thor 1 would not find it interesting.

    To borrow some stuff from the Hype Cycle / Dunning Kruger Curve.

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    When you begin to "grok" and learn what you know and what you do not know you climb down from the peak of inflated expectations, you still find the thing interesting but it is less foreign to you, it is less spell-bounding. You are more pragmatic and less bedazzled.

    Same curve known as Dunning Krueger

    You begin to understand things and with this understanding you understand it is over your head. You then think you are never going to learn it and thus abandon the hobby or you soldier on and hit the lowest point "confidence wise" only to slowly gradually accumulate more knowledge about the thing.

    After enough "soldiering on" it becomes a form of a confidence that is both internal and external "it starts to make sense" and then you can get the silent form of smug where you say "trust me it is complicated" for you realize sure I can explain it in "metaphor" but metaphor is not actually describing the actual thing but instead an approximation of the thing that is not quite 100% accurate but is a




    What I am trying to say is Darcy in Dark World / Thor 2 aka 10 years ago feels to me a person who realizes her limits of knowledge and feels confident in what she does not know which if she still finds X interesting is the place where you start to learn a thing beyond its metaphors but actually in the "language" of that science or art you are trying to gain knowledge in.

    In sum I can buy Darcy becoming a Nerd, but not all Darcies 10 years ago would become nerds, many of them would pursue a different career.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    [footstomp]And I won't![/footstomp]

    - M
    And this "footstomp is very valid"

    I want to know the PhD college that talks to Bruce Banner and acknowledges he is brilliant, but after the 5th PhD would they want to take resources on teaching him the 6th or 7th instead of another PhD student? To the college you are not going to contributing any original work in the field and you are wasting time and bureaucracy to accumulate "titles." Furthermore you are not even going to spend time teaching the next generation, so you are both not going to do anything original nor will you teach the next generation.

    Seven PhDs, 7!
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2021-01-30 at 06:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    I want to know the PhD college that talks to Bruce Banner and acknowledges he is brilliant, but after the 5th PhD would they want to take resources on teaching him the 6th or 7th instead of another PhD student? To the college you are not going to contributing any original work in the field and you are wasting time and bureaucracy to accumulate "titles." Furthermore you are not even going to spend time teaching the next generation, so you are both not going to do anything original nor will you teach the next generation.

    Seven PhDs, 7!
    Well, we don't know for certain...but a few of them may be honorary. Some people have over 100 honorary doctorates. Of course, they probably aren't all PhDs...

    ...but don't forget, if a big name in the field were to roll into a University and co-lead a lab for a project or two the prestige might be worth throwing them a degree.

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  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
    IIRC Thor: Dark World was in 2013 and post-Endgame was 2023, so ten years to get her doctorate. Though she was a political science major initially, which makes it a little more odd, but possibly meeting Thor and the associated craziness was sufficient to get her to change majors?
    It was one thing to meet Thor and see a little crazy in New Mexico, but a whole new world(s) to witness the Conjunction from ground zero at Greenwich. I could easily see Darcy finally understanding what Jane was going on about, and deciding that space stuff is actually pretty cool after all.

    Originally Posted by Ramza00
    I want to know the PhD college that talks to Bruce Banner and acknowledges he is brilliant, but after the 5th PhD would they want to take resources on teaching him the 6th or 7th instead of another PhD student? To the college you are not going to contributing any original work in the field and you are wasting time and bureaucracy to accumulate "titles."
    Personally I’ve only known one colleague with two Ph.D.s, and that was the result of a professional epiphany that caused him to reframe his life. Beyond two it’s just ridiculous, and I never liked that line from Ragnarok. I choose to believe that most of those degrees were honorary.

    As for whether a university would take on a Ph.D. student who already has one or more Ph.D.s…well, as long as someone is paying tuition they wouldn’t really care. The real question is finding a faculty advisor to take you on. Normally an advisor expects their grad students to work on aspects of their own research, as well as doing all manner of other odd jobs, often rather drudgey. There’s a strong expectation of a mentor/student relationship, and even when that goes well there’s still a power dynamic in which the faculty advisor expects to hold all the power.

    So I’m not sure how many professors would want to take on a grad student with more Ph.D.s than they have. They would probably be concerned that the student wouldn’t want to take on ordinary grad student tasks, to say nothing of the strange optics of "mentoring" a "student" with more education than they have. If they just wanted to collaborate with Bruce Banner, it would be far easier for him to get a temporary faculty appointment, or if nothing else a postdoc, although that’s not much of a position either.

    So it’s ridiculous overall, not so much for issues with the university as with the prospective faculty advisor.

    Also, grad students do contribute original work in their field—that’s the whole point of the dissertation, to prove you can do exactly that. And they’re usually involved in other projects which should ideally result in other publications.

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    A lot of people have the theory that it's all connected to the mind stone and Wanda being a living Infinity Gauntlet. That the Hexagon is supposed to be the shape of the stone which makes no sense. But there is one thing about the shape. It has six points. Six stones... Tapping into the residual energy of the stones?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
    Talk about deus ex machina. We are given two movies where she is clearly self-absorbed, childlike and as far from interested in hard science as can be imagined...and now she is the astrophysicist SWORD calls in to assess this anomaly? Her resume is summed up by the line "I knew Jane Foster and Thor." Tough for me to buy it. Just going to chew scenery and take away from the actual story.

    MCU needs to dial back on the snarky know-it-all. Tony Stark, Shuri and Stephen Strange are enough. Throwing in a third-rate d-lister is unnecessary. Plus she doesn't even have a name that starts with "S".

    - M

    PS: Even without her inclusion, I felt let down by the amount of "outside" time this episode featured.
    This is nowhere near a Deus Ex Machina. Darcy isn't there to resolve suddenly a plot element because the writers wrote themselves in a corner.

    The word you are looking for is Contrivance. As in, you feel it's contrived that Darcy is now a reputed astrophysist. Because the writers took that as a premisce, not as a resolution .

    And they can tell us that. Why not? I mean, writers can write characters that they want how they want it, I don't see why it's objectionable that Darcy has a valid reason to be a key character in the SWORD part of the plot once you signed the actress to come back for a potentially good paycheck and exposure.

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    Originally Posted by Devonix
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    But there is one thing about the shape. It has six points. Six stones... Tapping into the residual energy of the stones?
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    It's possible, but the Infinity Stones never had a hexagon motif that I can recall.

    And I would like to think that the MCU has moved on from the stones. This is the first Disney+ series in the MCU, and I would expect they'd want to come up with their own ideas rather than falling back to the previous MCU phases.

    That said, if Wanda is featuring in the next Dr. Strange, there may well be some continuity there. I hope not, but I was never a big fan of the Infinity MacGuffins, and my strong preference is for something else to be in play.
    Last edited by Palanan; 2021-01-31 at 09:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    This is nowhere near a Deus Ex Machina. Darcy isn't there to resolve suddenly a plot element because the writers wrote themselves in a corner.

    The word you are looking for is Contrivance. As in, you feel it's contrived that Darcy is now a reputed astrophysist. Because the writers took that as a premisce, not as a resolution .

    And they can tell us that. Why not? I mean, writers can write characters that they want how they want it, I don't see why it's objectionable that Darcy has a valid reason to be a key character in the SWORD part of the plot once you signed the actress to come back for a potentially good paycheck and exposure.
    I mean, hah, it's not like there's been a five-year skip between Thor 2 and Wandavision in which everyone's lives were changed in a rapid way that could potentially cause people to change to be a lot different then they were before either due to new opportunities, niches that needed to be filled, trying to figure out what happened, or just in general because it's been five years and people naturally change over time, right!? hah hah ahah


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    Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir
    I mean, hah, it's not like there's been a five-year skip between Thor 2 and Wandavision in which everyone's lives were changed in a rapid way….
    More than that, actually. According to Endgame, Thor 2 is canonically in 2013, so that’s a minimum of six years before Endgame. That’s not including the Snap, which I think brings the post-Endgame timeline to 2023.

    So, if Darcy wasn’t Snapped, she’d have around ten years to get the degrees required to become a competent astrophysicist. Even if she was Snapped, she’d still have six years, which is (just barely) enough for a Ph.D. in the field.

    Also, do we know that Darcy actually has a Ph.D.? I’ve been assuming that, but it’s entirely possible that she has a Master’s and a lot of on-the-job experience with Jane Foster, which means she can technically call herself an astrophysicist without actually having a doctorate in the field. That would be a very Darcy thing to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
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    A lot of people have the theory that it's all connected to the mind stone and Wanda being a living Infinity Gauntlet. That the Hexagon is supposed to be the shape of the stone which makes no sense. But there is one thing about the shape. It has six points. Six stones... Tapping into the residual energy of the stones?
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    We see a depiction of the mind stone in the show, on Vision's Illusion's magician's cabinet, so we know the hexagon isn't that. But the hexagon being a subtle reference to the six infinity stones is almost certainly one of its meanings.


    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Also, do we know that Darcy actually has a Ph.D.? I’ve been assuming that, but it’s entirely possible that she has a Master’s and a lot of on-the-job experience with Jane Foster, which means she can technically call herself an astrophysicist without actually having a doctorate in the field. That would be a very Darcy thing to do.
    When the stereotypical Impatient Military Guy Who Wants Results (see also Arrival, Avatar, Independence Day, Pacific Rim etc etc etc) addresses her as "Ms. Lewis", she very pointedly corrects him with "Dr. Lewis", so I think it's safe to assume that she actually has a doctorate.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    It is likely Darcy has a PhD for SWORD brought her in to do Astrophysics stuff and she made sure to correct the guy that her title is Dr. Lewis not Ms. Lewis.

    And this is not a “textual source” the viewer interacts with, only a secondary source that I say has authority. But it appears that publicity screeners for WandaVISION got more information about the characters including stuff with the characters backstories and notes from the production brief. In said in the production brief Darcy is listed as having a doctorate in AstroPhysics that she got after the Thor 2 Dark World.

    https://thedirect.com/article/wandav...lewis-spoilers

    —————

    Sidenote Kat Dennings (Darcy Lewis) and Randall Park (Jimmy Woo) both have experiences with sitcoms 2 Broke Girls and Fresh Off the Boat respectively, and both of these shows were successful with 6 seasons each and this over 100+ episodes.
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    Originally Posted by Ramza00
    It is likely Darcy has a PhD for SWORD brought her in to do Astrophysics stuff and she made sure to correct the guy that her title is Dr. Lewis not Ms. Lewis.
    Okay, sounds like she definitely earned a Ph.D., then. A minimum of six years should be plenty of time, assuming she used data already gathered as part of Jane Foster's research. It's more than likely that Jane Foster was her academic advisor, so Darcy could've been working on one component of Foster's Convergence project.

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    Do we know for sure Jane wasn't snapped? I'd assume she was given Thor's sorry state in Endgame. So Darcy might have had to earn the degree on her own.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Okay, sounds like she definitely earned a Ph.D., then. A minimum of six years should be plenty of time, assuming she used data already gathered as part of Jane Foster's research. It's more than likely that Jane Foster was her academic advisor, so Darcy could've been working on one component of Foster's Convergence project.
    Also, it's not that unlikely. She was the one continuing Jane's research on her own when Jane was on a date. She knows how to operate and read Jane's equipment, and she never came off as not smart.

    I can totally see her picking up astrophysics, especially if she knows there's good prospects for her there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Do we know for sure Jane wasn't snapped? I'd assume she was given Thor's sorry state in Endgame. So Darcy might have had to earn the degree on her own.
    even if she wasn't, her and thor broke up between Thor's 2 and 3. so she probably wouldn't have helped anyways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    even if she wasn't, her and thor broke up between Thor's 2 and 3. so she probably wouldn't have helped anyways.
    I don’t really see Jane dumping astrophysics or refusing to mentor Darcy just because Jane was no longer dating a space alien. Jane liked the astrophysics before she met Thor and had sunk quite a bit of her life into it, plus it’s unlikely that it was Darcy’s fault they broke up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    even if she wasn't, her and thor broke up between Thor's 2 and 3. so she probably wouldn't have helped anyways.
    Helped Thor, probably not, but that shouldn't affect Darcy.

    Anyway, Jane's wiki page appears to confirm that I was right and she was Snapped.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
    I can totally see her picking up astrophysics, especially if she knows there's good prospects for her there.
    Given that there are Real Actual Aliens whose tech needs to be figured out in a hurry so Earth can catch up, I imagine it's a pretty booming field.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    what? no... what?

    why are you guys thinking i was saying Jane wouldn't help Darcy?

    i was DIRECTLY quoting a post about Thor being in a sorry state in end game.

    how is that anything OTHER then saying "Jane probably wouldn't have helped Thor because they weren't in a relationship anymore. Jane (if not blipped) had better things to do."


    Darcy was never even mentioned????

    edit: okay she was in the quote. still only referring to Thor tho. Guess that's my bad...
    Last edited by Draconi Redfir; 2021-01-31 at 02:58 PM.
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  27. - Top - End - #177
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Originally Posted by Kareeah_Indaga
    I don’t really see Jane dumping astrophysics or refusing to mentor Darcy just because Jane was no longer dating a space alien. Jane liked the astrophysics before she met Thor and had sunk quite a bit of her life into it, plus it’s unlikely that it was Darcy’s fault they broke up.
    Jane is smart enough to recognize that Thor wasn’t a viable long-term option, and moping after him was demonstrably holding back her career. She knows that ultimately Odin was right—she’s a mayfly compared to the typical Asgardian lifespan, and pining for Thor simply isn’t a good use of what little time she has.

    This makes her more likely to be a mentor to Darcy, since Jane will need someone she trusts and knows she can work with. (And who won’t be too thrown by the occasional ice-cream-for-breakfast-in-pajamas interludes.) Even if both Darcy and Jane were Snapped, that’s still six years of realtime for Darcy to finish her Ph.D.

    Figure two or three years for coursework, then mining Jane’s preexisting data, working some angle that Jane hasn’t had time for, easily done in another three years.

  28. - Top - End - #178
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    Ramza00's Avatar

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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Darcy is also extremely resourceful and is good at the social networking stuff. She merely needs direction, but even without direction she is good at figuring out something is off...that things need to change, and without someone "instantly knowing" what is wrong, well lets tinker with it and figure it out.

    Oh someone doesn't instantly know why X is wrong, well I am going to "tinker with it" till I / We figure it out is like pure Darcy's energy.

    -----

    I bring this up for I honestly think Darcy does not need the direction of Jane to get the PhD on her own. Jane just helps speed things up so there is less trial and error, for they have orthogonal skill sets which are synergistic. How they interact is just oil and water but they can work together in a cooperative fashion.
    Last edited by Ramza00; 2021-01-31 at 04:19 PM.
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  29. - Top - End - #179
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Yes, Jane Foster was a young PhD working still together with her advisor at the start of Thor. If Darcy has done her research as a PhD candidate, either supervised by Foster or elsewhere, and got a PhD which we know that she has, that means that Darcy is now essentially Thor 1 Jane Foster. Besides, with the recommendation letters that she probably has, she could land any position that she likes.

    I look forward to seeing if she's doing a postdoc at SWORD or whether she has a tenure track position at an academic institution, as well as what the topic of her dissertation was. Look at you MCU, spurring discussion about academia in internet forums!
    "Like the old proverb says, if one sees something not right, one must draw out his sword to intervene"

  30. - Top - End - #180
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Originally Posted by Clertar
    Besides, with the recommendation letters that she probably has, she could land any position that she likes.
    True, but given Jane Foster’s prominence, Darcy is probably a little beyond letters of recommendation. A phone call from Jane Foster is all it would take.

    Originally Posted by Clertar
    I look forward to seeing if she's doing a postdoc at SWORD or whether she has a tenure track position at an academic institution, as well as what the topic of her dissertation was.
    I doubt if S.W.O.R.D. has much interest in dealing with postdocs if they’re not already on permanent staff. Besides which, a postdoc is essentially a place to stand while you kick out papers and job applications, and Darcy probably won’t need that.

    As for her dissertation topic, almost certainly something to do with the Convergence. Your comment about her being Thor 1 Jane Foster is especially apt, since Darcy is most likely working with the same datasets that Jane was collecting at the beginning of her research.

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