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Thread: WandaVision

  1. - Top - End - #241
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Just a reminder when we talk metaphysics of fantasy that different people may have different definitions of words like “universe”

    universe (n.)
    1580s, "the whole world, cosmos, the totality of existing things," from Old French univers (12c.),
    from Latin universum "all things, everybody, all people, the whole world,"
    noun use of neuter of adjective universus "all together, all in one, whole, entire, relating to all," literally "turned into one,"
    from unus "one" (from PIE root *oi-no- "one, unique") + versus, past participle of vertere "to turn, turn back, be turned; convert, transform, translate; be changed" (from PIE root *wer- (2) "to turn, bend").

    Universe from Latin universum (“all things, as a whole, the universe”),
    neuter of universus (“all together, whole, entire, collective, general, literally turned or combined into one”),
    from uni-, combining form of unus (“one”) + versus (“turned”), perfect passive participle of vertō (“to turn”).

    (Not that etymology is the end of a conversation, quite the opposite it just demonstrates languages changes, has multiple meanings, and thus language is more a river and less an ice cube)

    ————

    As you can see where one universe ends and another begins is always in flux with narratives that bring many worlds into play. We may not all be using the same meaning even if we use the same word.
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  2. - Top - End - #242
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Just a reminder when we talk metaphysics of fantasy that different people may have different definitions of words like “universe”

    universe (n.)
    1580s, "the whole world, cosmos, the totality of existing things," from Old French univers (12c.),
    from Latin universum "all things, everybody, all people, the whole world,"
    noun use of neuter of adjective universus "all together, all in one, whole, entire, relating to all," literally "turned into one,"
    from unus "one" (from PIE root *oi-no- "one, unique") + versus, past participle of vertere "to turn, turn back, be turned; convert, transform, translate; be changed" (from PIE root *wer- (2) "to turn, bend").

    Universe from Latin universum (“all things, as a whole, the universe”),
    neuter of universus (“all together, whole, entire, collective, general, literally turned or combined into one”),
    from uni-, combining form of unus (“one”) + versus (“turned”), perfect passive participle of vertō (“to turn”).

    (Not that etymology is the end of a conversation, quite the opposite it just demonstrates languages changes, has multiple meanings, and thus language is more a river and less an ice cube)

    ————

    As you can see where one universe ends and another begins is always in flux with narratives that bring many worlds into play. We may not all be using the same meaning even if we use the same word.
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    W: "I think you'll find that the Universe pretty much covers everything!"

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  3. - Top - End - #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
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    h'uh, wouldn't she have needed to be exposed to all six stones for this though? how would experimentation with just one stone cause her to gain the powers of all six?
    Actually no; remember the Stones are linked to one another. Thor says this in the extended version of his prophetic bath scene in Age of Ultron: ""The Infinite Six - they cannot be joined nor kept apart!" We also see this in FA/EG with Red Skull, who upon attempting to abuse the Space Stone, is instead sent to eternally guard the Soul Stone. And finally, this also explains how Quicksilver himself, whose powers also came from the Mind Stone, has powers far more in line with the Space Stone (superspeed and blue energy traces).

    So in short, getting your powers from one Stone doesn't mean you only get the powers associated with that stone.

    As for Wanda herself:

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    As stated previously, she is exhibiting (and has exhibited) far more than just the Mind Stone. Some examples:

    Power: Among other feats, she falls to the ground and instantly disintegrates a squad of Ultron's drones when QS dies.
    Time: Sees the potential future if Ultron is allowed to inhabit Vision's body, similar to Strange using the Time Stone to see bad futures.
    Space: Most of her telekinetic feats, but the big ones are Lagos and single-handedly stopping Thanos' tunnel-bot army in IW.
    Reality: Confirmed in the latest episode of WV that she is actually rewriting reality.
    Soul: Necessary to resurrect the real Vision (and possibly "recast" Pietro), and also she senses the fallen Avengers in the afterlife at the end of endgame.
    Mind: Too many examples to count.


    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    Cosmic microwave background radiation (CMBR) is a residual echo of the energy of the Big Bang. If ----- is generating its own CMBR, that would argue there was a Big Bang in ----, which I think we would’ve noticed.
    The Infinity Stones themselves were present at the Big Bang (Wong and Strange explicitly state this in Infinity War). So it's not necessary for there to have been an actual Big Bang for their energy to be around.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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  4. - Top - End - #244
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    So, the rather specific usage of the term Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation got me thinking about the last time the MCU used a real-life scientific idea (an Einstein-Rosen Bridge) as the Earth term for a fantastic comic book idea (The Bifrost), and I began to wonder if they aren't doing the same thing here and included Darcy as a way to remind viewers that that was a thing the MCU did before. Specifically I'm wondering if the CMBR is the Earthway to describe...

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    The Power Cosmic

    From the Marvel Comics wiki

    "The Power Cosmic is the name of a vast source of limitless, godly, cosmic energy and power primarily wielded by the god-like cosmic entity Galactus. The Power Cosmic allows Galactus to employ the available absorbed cosmic energies within him to produce nearly any effect he desires, including size-alteration, the molecular restructuring and transmutation of matter, the teleportation of objects—even entire galaxies—across space and time, the creation of force fields, the creation of interdimensional portals, telepathy, telekinesis, and cosmic awareness on a universal scale. Galactus has even been shown as capable of creating sentient life, resurrecting the dead, manipulating mortal souls and remaking dead worlds—including their populations—in every detail."

    Anything sound familiar? I'm thinking WandaVision isn't being used to introduce the X-Men and Mutants, but is being used to introduce more of the Fantastic Four or their associated story elements, in preparation for their film, which is in development, unlike any X-Men properties. Especially if the aerospace engineer Monica mentions is Ben Grimm or Susan Storm (describing Reed Richards as just an aerospace engineer is like calling the Hubble Telescope a magnifying glass).
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  5. - Top - End - #245
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
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    Time: Sees the potential future if Ultron is allowed to inhabit Vision's body, similar to Strange using the Time Stone to see bad futures.

    Spoiler: Seeing into the Future
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    I don't think she saw the future, I think she just read Ultron's mind through Vision's body. She had commented before she could not read Ultron's mind (as he was a machine). But once they started to upload his core consciousness into Vision, she suddenly could read his mind, and that's how she saw what he was planning.
    Last edited by JadedDM; 2021-02-07 at 04:22 PM.

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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    A
    Time: Sees the potential future if Ultron is allowed to inhabit Vision's body, similar to Strange using the Time Stone to see bad futures.
    Isn't this one that Ultron had shielded his mind/is a robot so she couldn't read his mind, but she could read proto-Vision's mind?
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  7. - Top - End - #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdrop View Post
    So, the rather specific usage of the term Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation got me thinking about the last time the MCU used a real-life scientific idea (an Einstein-Rosen Bridge) as the Earth term for a fantastic comic book idea (The Bifrost), and I began to wonder if they aren't doing the same thing here and included Darcy as a way to remind viewers that that was a thing the MCU did before. Specifically I'm wondering if the CMBR is the Earthway to describe...
    Yep Cosmic Background Radiation is a real thing, and we have "pictures" of how the universe is not evenly distributed after the Big Bang for Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation, allows us to infer that the big bang created the universe (there may be stuff prior to the big bang we can not see, but there is no "steady state" which was an alternative theory.)

    [I am about to collapse all the historical nuance here, but I will provide a link for a good starting point if you want to know more.]

    CMBR was theorized by several people in the 40s, first detected in the 50s, we used a satellite in 1989 to get the first "fingerprint" saying via CMBR we think the universe looks like this, and with better satellites since then and south pole data we got even better fingerprints.

    https://theconversation.com/the-cmb-...universe-45126

    -----

    Blah, blah, blah Carl Sagan and Neil deGrasse Tyson stuff I half get but also half do not care to the extent these people did with how "enchanted" they are about this research.

    Who knows what Marvel / Disney will do with it. Like Marvel in the 1960s heavily implied Mutants were possibly influenced by splitting the atom only in the 90s (and some earlier stuff in the 80s) instead making it the "x-gene." Likewise other similar stuff with the Fantastic Four and The Incredible Hulk.

    And as Blackdrop mentioned earlier early Stage 1 Marvel often try to give a technology lingo to something that is inherently magical and fantastic in things like Thor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Androgeus View Post
    Isn't this one that Ultron had shielded his mind/is a robot so she couldn't read his mind, but she could read proto-Vision's mind?
    Who knows what Marvel Cinematic Universe rules are, but in 616 Vision is a synthesoid which means he has organs that provide functions like a human does, and thus he is not like a machine. Yet those organs may be very different than how human organs work. Furthermore they can be "super" in some way and thus creates great feats of durability and so on more than a normal human even without the density manipulation and so on.

    Yet in the MCU Vision does not need to eat and in fact things mess up if he eats. In 616 comics Vision gets his energy from the sun but he can also eat. Instead of a digestive track he has a little furnace inside of him that breaks down food converting the mass into energy.
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  8. - Top - End - #248
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    Originally Posted by JadedDM
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    I don't think she saw the future, I think she just read Ultron's mind through Vision's body. She had commented before she could not read Ultron's mind (as he was a machine). But once they started to upload his core consciousness into Vision, she suddenly could read his mind, and that's how she saw what he was planning.
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    Very much this. Wanda wasn’t accessing any future timelines, she was just seeing Ultron’s intentions, as transferred to the proto-Vision body. This is telepathy, and has zero to do with the Time Stone.


    Originally Posted by Ramza00
    Blah, blah, blah Carl Sagan and Neil deGrasse Tyson stuff I half get but also half do not care to the extent these people did with how "enchanted" they are about this research.
    I’m afraid I can’t follow your syntax here.

    Originally Posted by Ramza00
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    Yet in the MCU Vision does not need to eat and in fact things mess up if he eats.
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    Well, in the second episode of WandaVision there’s the chewing gum incident, but that feels like something invented for the purposes of laughs within the framework of the Hex.

    Do we know that Vision has had any trouble eating out in the real, un-Hexed world?

  9. - Top - End - #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramza00 View Post
    Blah, blah, blah Carl Sagan and Neil deGrasse Tyson stuff I half get but also half do not care to the extent these people did with how "enchanted" they are about this research.
    Quote Originally Posted by Palanan View Post
    I’m afraid I can’t follow your syntax here.
    Carl Sagan and Neil deGrasse Tyson both do a documentary show called Cosmos

    Cosmos: A Personal Voyage (1980, 13 episodes) done by Carl Sagan (born 1934, died 1996)
    Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey (2014, 13 episodes) done by Neil deGrasse Tyson (born 1958, still alive)

    Both of these shows are "documentaries" about space and other things trying to connect mankind to the cosmos much like Planet Earth or Life on Earth.
    What I mean by enchantment is the stuff that Walt Disney does with trying to create mystery and magic in the world, to enchant it. Walt Disney is secular example, but there are numerous other examples both secular and religious. Sagan and Tyson are also trying to do something similar to Disney. Note while Sagan and Tyson are both scientists they are also trying to do something different than "enlightenment" which is the stripping away of magic and mystery, these two people are both trying to reveal but also kindle a romantic form of love with this mystery itself and to create a culture of discovery can be its own "ritual."

    Sorry for words and it being cryptic to some people who are not me. I used too much shorthand earlier, and now I used too much words, the opposite extreme.
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  10. - Top - End - #250
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    Yes, reading Ultron-Vision's thoughts is a function of Mind, I never claimed it wasn't. But she still saw a possible future when she did. Whether that was just seeing what he had planned, or an actual prediction of what would come to pass if she stayed on her current course is inconclusive - and anyway, it doesn't refute any of the other examples I cited.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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  11. - Top - End - #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
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    The children have all been banished in a subreality and caused mutants to be a thing there. That's where this Quicksilver comes.
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    This has sparked a thought; what if this or another calamity struck the kids before Wanda got there? Then the grieving parents tried to bring the kids back with magic and/or super science in a way that put them on Wanda's radar. Then she showed up, started kicking butt, learned what they were up to, sympathized, and made a deal: she keeps the rest of the world out of their business and they let her use their town to live out the fantasy life with Vision she never got to have. And as it's becoming clearer that the fantasy isn't as ideal as she'd hoped, the parents have conjured up a Pietro to sweeten the deal.

    I guess that makes Agnes the front woman for the grieving townsfolk? Keeping an eye on Wanda, helping keep the fantasy rolling?

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    Originally Posted by Ramza00
    Carl Sagan and Neil deGrasse Tyson both do a documentary show called Cosmos….
    Indeed, I’m very aware of both of these guys and their respective shows. I grew up on the first Cosmos, to which the second version can’t hold a standard candle.

    Also note that there is a sequel to the second version, Cosmos: Possible Worlds, which came out earlier this year. I just tried watching an episode a few days ago and…well, frustrating in places. But that’s another thread.

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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Yes, reading Ultron-Vision's thoughts is a function of Mind, I never claimed it wasn't. But she still saw a possible future when she did. Whether that was just seeing what he had planned, or an actual prediction of what would come to pass if she stayed on her current course is inconclusive - and anyway, it doesn't refute any of the other examples I cited.
    I mean, it really ISN'T that inconclusive. It's far more likely that the telepath that can read minds was seeing what the killer robot/android was planning rather than her gaining a premonition about what could happen. The other examples you sight are kinda... flimsy as well. The examples you cite for Power and Space are just extensions of her telekinetic abilities (which she controls with her Mind, so they just as easily being argued as Mind Stone examples).

    As for Soul examples; for one we don't know if this IS the real Vision yet, and the fact that he has no memory prior to Westview leans pretty heavily in the direction that she didn't simply bring him back from the dead. And for the other example, maybe she's just religious and thinks Vis and Nat are in an afterlife?
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  14. - Top - End - #254
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    Regarding the Skrulls and the Tesseract in the Captain Marvel movie
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    I believe the Skrull refugees on Mar-Vell's invisible space ship were most concerned with hiding from the Kree. While the ship itself had been cloaked, we don't know if any smaller ships that may have been aboard would have had the same stealth capability.

    Also, we know that when the Kree came to intercept Mar-Vell and shot down the plane, she was trying to get back to her lab (the ship in orbit) before they could catch her.

    Therefore, I doubt that the hiding Skrulls could have returned to retrieve the Tesseract on their own between Mar-Vell's death and the events of Captain Marvel. And I also think, if the Tesseract weren't already on her secret space lab, Mar-Vell likely would have thought to bring it on her mission to hide the lightspeed engine prototype.

    My interpretation is there's a high probability she had already taken it into her possession before her death.


    I know the conversation had moved on from that topic, but I wanted to throw that out there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdrop View Post
    The examples you cite for Power and Space are just extensions of her telekinetic abilities (which she controls with her Mind, so they just as easily being argued as Mind Stone examples).
    I don't buy that. What telekinetic abilities did the Mind stone give to Loki? And Thanos didn't need it to telekinetically throw the moon either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdrop View Post
    As for Soul examples; for one we don't know if this IS the real Vision yet, and the fact that he has no memory prior to Westview leans pretty heavily in the direction that she didn't simply bring him back from the dead. And for the other example, maybe she's just religious and thinks Vis and Nat are in an afterlife?
    I don't think anything about this arrangement is "simple". But
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    a mere construct of her mind would be unlikely to be so autonomous, inquisitive, contrary etc. It might not be all of Vision, but there's more here than just her memories/experiences of him.

    This is highlighted during their fight, when she says "you've never spoken to me like this before" - a construct of her mind shouldn't be able to act in ways she can't conceive of.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cikomyr2 View Post
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    And the Hexverse can't just be a reshaping/reflavoring of reality by Wanda. Otherwise it makes no sense for her not to control 100% of what happens there, unless her psyche is genuinely split and part of her is actively outside of her conscious control.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I don't think anything about this arrangement is "simple". But
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    a mere construct of her mind would be unlikely to be so autonomous, inquisitive, contrary etc. It might not be all of Vision, but there's more here than just her memories/experiences of him.

    This is highlighted during their fight, when she says "you've never spoken to me like this before" - a construct of her mind shouldn't be able to act in ways she can't conceive of.
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    I'm not sure I agree with these points - I know she isn't book Wanda with full reality-shaping options, but I believe even book-Wanda could create things with limited control over the actions they take once created, and imperfect control over items brought in from outside (Monica, for instance). As such, MCU Wanda just learning Reality Alteration could certainly have control limits.

    Unless I am misreading the points...are you guys suggesting she has actually altered reality, or that she is filtering how she perceives reality?


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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Never going to happen, but a wish all the same

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    Be Doctor Doom and Agatha Harkins doing Sorcerer stuff with magic.

    Except after the reveal showing that Dr. Doom set things up in WestView.

    Do a Fantastic Four movie unrelated to Doom, and eventually have the first real "Doom" movie be a team up movie, either FF4 2 or an Avengers movie.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I don't buy that. What telekinetic abilities did the Mind stone give to Loki? And Thanos didn't need it to telekinetically throw the moon either.
    Alright, I realize now I should have made the stuff inside the parentheses blue text. That's my bad. Though the fact that you choose to emphasize that Thanos DIDN'T need a Stone's power do something that you would think he wouldn't be able to do without it, is an interesting track to take your argument that Wanda DOES need the powers from the other Stones to do the things she does.

    The point my sarcastic ass was trying to make was that your logic that

    [Wanda is moving things through 3 dimensional space -> Wanda is using the power of the Space Stone.]

    could just as easily be interpreted as

    [Wanda is moving things with her mind -> Wanda is using the power of the Mind Stone]

    I don't think anything about this arrangement is "simple". But
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    a mere construct of her mind would be unlikely to be so autonomous, inquisitive, contrary etc. It might not be all of Vision, but there's more here than just her memories/experiences of him.

    This is highlighted during their fight, when she says "you've never spoken to me like this before" - a construct of her mind shouldn't be able to act in ways she can't conceive of.
    I didn't say anything about this Vision being a construct of Wanda's mind. Just the fact that Vision isn't acting like himself and that he has no memories prior to Westview, suggests to me that Wanda didn't use her "Soul Stone" powers, that you seem to think she has, to revive Vision.
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    Default Re: WandaVision

    Most of the stones actually allow you to do like 80% of the abilities of the other stones with creative use of their energies. Yet there are some subdomains unique to them.

    Similar to the Magic the Gathering color pie where a mechanic may belong to multiple colors, yet other times mechanics are unique to that color. 5 overlapping circles as venn diagrams except there is part of the circle unique to itself and has no overlap.

    (Except it is 6 stones so 6 circles in this example, also the infinity gems have had so many retcons over its 39 years of stories, with its most famous story being 20 years into their run in 1991. So many retcons that the MCU has so much freedom to do what they what they want with the "stones" and it will likely match up with one of the "infinity gems" stories.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordar View Post
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    Unless I am misreading the points...are you guys suggesting she has actually altered reality, or that she is filtering how she perceives reality?


    - M
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    We know she's altered reality, because the changes to Monica's clothes persist when removed from the Hex.

    But she's not in complete control of everything in it. The minds of the people she's altering are resisting their assigned roles, and the Twins are a complete outside factor which she can't control at all.

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    The hex definitely has some degree of autonomy from Wanda. She had no idea the Haz-mat guy was entering her reality-bubble, but he and his wire were still transformed into something more likely to fit that fantasy world. I highly doubt Wanda is consciously directing what all of the people are doing either. More likely they've been given set roles or niches to fill, and they're autonomously filling that roll and have some degree of wiggle room, hence the neighbor filling the roll of "Be the friendly neighbor" by living next door and trimming the hedges, but being free to talk and move about somewhat without Wanda's knowledge, to the point of cutting into the fence itself.

    i don't think this points to something else being in charge though, it's all still of Wanda's creation. You don't need to actively think about your heard beating in order for it to beat, it just beats. Most likely she started the whole thing up like any kind of computer program and now it's just running on it's own off of whatever power Wanda initially put into it.

    Don't quite believe she'd need the power of all six infinity stones to do this either. While there are definitely some reality stone vibes going on, what with the physically changing reality and all that, this could all just be an aspect of the mind stone we just haven't seen before, or even something unique to Wanda and her powers outside the stones. Like perhaps she doesn't have the power of the mind stone, the mind stone just woke up her own power and cranked it up to 11.
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  22. - Top - End - #262
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    Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir
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    ...or even something unique to Wanda and her powers outside the stones. Like perhaps she doesn't have the power of the mind stone, the mind stone just woke up her own power and cranked it up to 11.
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    I have a feeling this is probably correct. There's no real evidence that she's somehow channeling the powers of all six stones, and it makes far more sense that she has some deeper innate power which she's only just beginning to discover.

  23. - Top - End - #263
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    Well, anyone who read any Averngers marvel comics knows that Wanda was magically hexed at birth by the Elder God/Demon Chthon.

    For years and decades Wandas 'only' power was Probability Manipulation.....though that alone was a very powerful and vague power. Later she got lots of other powers.....look up her list of powers on the Marvel Wiki.

    Plus Wanda in the comics is realities Nexus Being too.

  24. - Top - End - #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugbear View Post
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    Well, anyone who read any Averngers marvel comics knows that Wanda was magically hexed at birth by the Elder God/Demon Chthon.

    For years and decades Wandas 'only' power was Probability Manipulation.....though that alone was a very powerful and vague power. Later she got lots of other powers.....look up her list of powers on the Marvel Wiki.

    Plus Wanda in the comics is realities Nexus Being too.
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    Things like that being true in the comics, in no way means that it's going to be true in the MCU
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  25. - Top - End - #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devonix View Post
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    Things like that being true in the comics, in no way means that it's going to be true in the MCU
    Of course, but it's still fun to speculate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdrop View Post
    [Wanda is moving things through 3 dimensional space -> Wanda is using the power of the Space Stone.]

    could just as easily be interpreted as

    [Wanda is moving things with her mind -> Wanda is using the power of the Mind Stone]
    It could, but we haven't seen any other examples of the Mind Stone letting other people who've used it do that. Telepathy and domination are clear-cut, telekinesis less so. I could be misremembering though, so by all means point out something I missed if that's the case.

    And again, Quicksilver's powers came from the same source, despite them having nothing to do with the Mind Stone's "domains" on their face.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdrop View Post
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    I didn't say anything about this Vision being a construct of Wanda's mind. Just the fact that Vision isn't acting like himself and that he has no memories prior to Westview, suggests to me that Wanda didn't use her "Soul Stone" powers, that you seem to think she has, to revive Vision.
    No, my point is that he IS acting like himself. So much so in fact,
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    that even his love for her is not allowing him to blindly swallow all the weirdness and inconsistencies that he is surrounded by. Getting angry with her because as far as he can tell, she has literally taken an entire village hostage so that she can play house, is entirely in character for him. Kneeling next to her and telling her that what she's doing is wrong - that is 100% Vision. Lacking any memories of what happened to him before WV doesn't change his nature.

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  26. - Top - End - #266
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    If people are going to continue speculating about powers being somehow related to one or other Infinity stone I will remind them that the main thing Vision used the Mind stone for was shooting a laser out of it.

    Wanda Maximoff has the power to control reality because that's what her power is, it just previously manifested as smaller things like energy blasts, a bit of telekinesis, and brainwashing/sensory misdirection. Something is causing her power to accelerate both consciously and unconsciously and creating a space which lets her live without the various traumas that have happened to her.

  27. - Top - End - #267
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    It's been said before that Wandavision is leading into Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness by Kevin Feige, so yes while Wanda is obviously the main culprit here, she is far from being the only factor in this series.

  28. - Top - End - #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloatingSwine View Post
    If people are going to continue speculating about powers being somehow related to one or other Infinity stone I will remind them that the main thing Vision used the Mind stone for was shooting a laser out of it.
    Well, in addition to an energy source being used to fire a laser not being much of a stretch, Vision's non-mental powers also fit with "the stones are connected" theory. (It's not like he was secretly a mutant all along, after all.)

    But for the record, if the only explanation we get is "she's a mutant/inhuman/etc and the stone was nothing more than a catalyst" I'm totally okay with that too. It doesn't change my belief that this is not just an delusion or mental facsimile we're working with, his behavior in the show is too "three-dimensional" for me to believe that.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  29. - Top - End - #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    Well, in addition to an energy source being used to fire a laser not being much of a stretch, Vision's non-mental powers also fit with "the stones are connected" theory. (It's not like he was secretly a mutant all along, after all.)

    But for the record, if the only explanation we get is "she's a mutant/inhuman/etc and the stone was nothing more than a catalyst" I'm totally okay with that too. It doesn't change my belief that this is not just an delusion or mental facsimile we're working with, his behavior in the show is too "three-dimensional" for me to believe that.
    I'm personally a fan of the take that the Stones are all connected.

    All the cases of infinity-stone as a power source have led to powers unrelated to the stone that was used, with the exception of the Mind Stone turning Jarvis from whatever JARVIS was into whatever Vision is.

    If you USE The Stone, you get a direct use of it's power. Space opens portals, Mind controls minds, Time lets you time travel and see the future.

    Devices (Hydra weapons, the PEGASUS drive, ect) that draw power from the stones to use it, just kind of, do Fancy Sci-Fi Things by using the stones as a power source.

    People who get their Powers from the Stones (Captain Marvel, Wanda, Pietro, Vision) seem to have no connection between the stone that gave them their powers, and the powers. Captain Marvel has flight, strength, and energy blasts, which I'd say would fall under "Power", but she got her powers from Space.

    Wanda seems pretty directly "Reality", but her powers came from the Mind stone.

    Pietro could be any number of things (Warping Space? Power to Speed? Time manipulation as superspeed?), except Mind.

    Vision can density shift, fly, shoot energy blasts and more, but it's hard to say how much of that is due to the Stone itself, vs his supertech synthoid body. Maybe the Mind Stone just makes a great focusing lense for a big 'ol forehead laser?
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  30. - Top - End - #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gam View Post
    It's been said before that Wandavision is leading into Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness by Kevin Feige, so yes while Wanda is obviously the main culprit here, she is far from being the only factor in this series.
    I think culprit has some connotations that don't apply...main actor (as in the main source of action, not the person starring in the production, which is obviously also true) seems nearly certain, but the culprit may well be someone else tampering with her mind and forcing/encouraging her to act.

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