Fighting Style: Dueling or Defense for Eldritch Knight

[da newt]

My Lvl 7 Goblin Eldritch Knight can swap Fighting Styles at lvl 8. Should he stick with Defense or swap to Dueling, and WHY?

He currently knows Booming Blade, Minor Illusion, Find Familiar, Shield, Magic Missile, Absorb Elements, and Protection from G&E - I'll be adding Shadow Blade at 8.

His Dex is 18 and will go to 20 at 8. His AC is 21 w/ studded leather, +1 shield, +1 Cloak of Protection, Defense FS. If he drops Def for Dueling his AC will still be 21 with the increase in DEX, or 22 if he stays w/ Defense FS.

His normal attacks are BB w/ weapon of warning rapier at ADV (Familiar help) + BA attack for 1d8 + 1d8(BB) + 4(DX) + 1d8 + 4(DX) = 21. At lvl 8 with shadow blade that will increase to 2d8 + 1d8 +5 + 2d8 +5 = 32 or 36 w/ dueling FS.

The game levels slowly, our party is big (8 total, BM Fighter, Monk, Wiz, Sorc, Bard, Cleric, Warlock) and combat is often many V many.

Is there any real advantage one way or the other wrt fighting style?

[stoutstien]

id stick with defense. do note officially you can no long combine BB with shadow blade because of the costly component it has now.

for duelist to start pulling real weight you need 3+ attacks.

[da newt]

WRT Shadow Blade + Booming Blade, I've checked w/ my DM and he ruled that for this campaign since no weapons have a value of less than 1 sp in the PHB, it follows that a magic sword that does 2d8 damage and grants ADV in dim/dark has a value greater than 1sp while it exists, so BB and SB can work together.

Good point, but NA for me this time.

[GooeyChewie]

Dueling gets better with more attacks. Do you plan to concentrate more on hitting Booming Blade or going for the regular Attack action? If the former, Defense. If the latter, Dueling.

[da newt]

From lvl 8-10, it will be BB + BA attack most of the time, then lvl 11 + it will be 3x attack usually.

[Elastoid]

It's simple, really. Dueling is useful every time you hit with an attack. Defense is useful every time an attack roll is made against you.

So really, it's all about your playstyle and which happens more often. My guess, in a party of eight people, you get fewer turns per combat than you would in, say, a party of three. As a melee fighter, though, you probably take more than your fair share of attack rolls.

If I'm wrong on those counts, though, and you attack plenty and don't tend to be focused, then maybe Dueling will trigger more often.

[LudicSavant]

id stick with defense. do note officially you can no long combine BB with shadow blade because of the costly component it has now.

Technically, the value of Shadow Blade isn't "zero" it's "undefined" and therefore requires a DM ruling to determine how the @#$% it works.

JC has said that the intent is that Shadow Blade would still work, that he'd allow it in his own games, and that the purpose of the errata was to make sure people understood that you couldn't pull longswords out of a material component pouch (wow! What a needed clarification, am I right?).

Don't you just love it when they errata the game to make it less clear?

[Valmark]

Personally unless I find a +2 armor I would swap out Defensive for Dueling and make space for Mage Armor.

How often do you consume all your 1st level slots? A single casting of Mage Armor is often enough to cover the adventuring unless it lasts long and starts early (meaning you need that AC for more then 8 hours).

[Damon_Tor]

WRT Shadow Blade + Booming Blade, I've checked w/ my DM and he ruled that for this campaign since no weapons have a value of less than 1 sp in the PHB, it follows that a magic sword that does 2d8 damage and grants ADV in dim/dark has a value greater than 1sp while it exists, so BB and SB can work together.

Good point, but NA for me this time.

If it matters to your DM, Jeremy Crawford offered that exact interpretation. He's stated for the record that the change was not intended to prohibit Booming Blade from being used with Shadow Blade.

[Frogreaver]

Technically, the value of Shadow Blade isn't "zero" it's "undefined" and therefore requires a DM ruling to determine how the @#$% it works.

We don't agree on much but here we are in 100% agreement.

[Tanarii]

Defense.

You always want 2H for an EK anyway, to avoid worrying about S components, which incidentally makes Str/Int the go-to for melee EKs. But there isn't much point in 2H style, since you'll be using War Magic most of the time and it's fairly weak.

If you're a Dex EK, you're an archer anyway because you're not using a shield. But Archery style is kinda worth it if you're sure you won't be getting attacked much. Dueling isn't though, because again, war magic, plus you're goal is to stay out of melee.

Edit: ah I see, you made the mistake of a Dex S&B EK. You'll need to rebuild that. Or swap to spells you can cast on your turn by sheathing your weapon, since can't cast Shields and Absorb Elements. Or at best have them available every other round (by repeatedly sheathing your weapon then redrawing the next).

[Valmark]

Defense.

You always want 2H for an EK anyway, to avoid worrying about S components, which incidentally makes Str/Int the go-to for melee EKs. But there isn't much point in 2H style, since you'll be using War Magic most of the time and it's fairly weak.

If you're a Dex EK, you're an archer anyway because you're not using a shield. But Archery style is kinda worth it if you're sure you won't be getting attacked much. Dueling isn't though, because again, war magic, plus you're goal is to stay out of melee.

Edit: ah I see, you made the mistake of a Dex S&B EK. You'll need to rebuild that. Or swap to spells you can cast on your turn by sheathing your weapon, since can't cast Shields and Absorb Elements. Or at best have them available every other round (by repeatedly sheathing your weapon then redrawing the next).

Given the fact that it seems to have been working fine for the OP I don't think you can call it a mistake.

[Tanarii]

Given the fact that it seems to have been working fine for the OP I don't think you can call it a mistake.

My first guess is their DM has housed ruled to ignore components. That considerably powers up S&B EKs.

[GooeyChewie]

Edit: ah I see, you made the mistake of a Dex S&B EK. You'll need to rebuild that. Or swap to spells you can cast on your turn by sheathing your weapon, since can't cast Shields and Absorb Elements. Or at best have them available every other round (by repeatedly sheathing your weapon then redrawing the next).

The War Caster feat fixes that for you. It allows you to meet somatic components with both hands full, and as a bonus gives you advantage on concentration checks so you are less likely to lose your Shadow Blade. It does not get around material components, but EK has plenty of options which don't require those, such as Shield, Absorb Elements, Magic Missile, Firebolt, and Shadow Blade.

Granted, it kind of stinks to pay the 'feat tax,' but it doesn't rise to the level of Dex S&B EK being bad wrong fun.

[Tanarii]

Granted, it kind of stinks to pay the 'feat tax,' but it doesn't rise to the level of Dex S&B EK being bad wrong fun.

It's subpar to have to take a feat to be a worse build in the first place, need to be in a game that allows feats, can't use any of the useful M spells without sheathing your weapon, and means you have to go through level 3 without it ... but nothing is badwrongfun.

Except playing your halfling DMPC as if a Kender, That almost got me lynched by players.