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    Default NWoD GMC How do Tilts work?

    Exactly as the title says. I understand what a Tilt DOES, I just look at them in utter bafflement as I can't grasp how you're supposed to apply them. Like, most of the time by time someone gets a Tilt, they're basically dead.

    Or it's Social combat and then we're dealing with the Keys which are either explained awfully or are just incredibly unintuitive.

    So please, can someone explain these two mechanics to me? Because it's incredibly frustrating as I typically grasp odd or complex mechanics easily, but these elude me
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    Default Re: NWoD GMC How do Tilts work?

    What's the problem with tilts, exactly? The rules generally explain when they're applied pretty clearly. Every tilt has possible sources of it in its description and Storytellers are expected to apply them at their own discretion. You get Arm Wrack if someone hits you with a called shot to the arm hard enough, but you can also get it if you get your arm caught in a door or something like that.

    As for social maneuvering, I think you mean doors, not keys. If you want to get someone to do something for you or change their mind in a significant way, you have a number of doors to open, equal to the lower of their Resolve and Composure, plus circumstantial modifiers. Every successful roll opens a door and the frequency of rolling is determined by what the target thinks about you. This means that the system is keyed towards long-term interaction, rather than on-the-spot arguments. There's an example of play in the rules.
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    Default Re: NWoD GMC How do Tilts work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    What's the problem with tilts, exactly? The rules generally explain when they're applied pretty clearly. Every tilt has possible sources of it in its description and Storytellers are expected to apply them at their own discretion. You get Arm Wrack if someone hits you with a called shot to the arm hard enough, but you can also get it if you get your arm caught in a door or something like that.

    As for social maneuvering, I think you mean doors, not keys. If you want to get someone to do something for you or change their mind in a significant way, you have a number of doors to open, equal to the lower of their Resolve and Composure, plus circumstantial modifiers. Every successful roll opens a door and the frequency of rolling is determined by what the target thinks about you. This means that the system is keyed towards long-term interaction, rather than on-the-spot arguments. There's an example of play in the rules.
    The issue I see is... why would I do that instead of just shoot them? Like, the only time called shots ever comes up is for Headshots.

    And yes, that's what I meant, I was going from old memory. And I'm trying to figure out why they went and made this thing, which I find weirdly convoluted, instead of just using the Extended Skill rolls where each roll is over a day or so instead of a few seconds or minutes. Cuz as it sits, it takes like... months to get something done from people you don't know, and that's kinda ridiculous.
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    Default Re: NWoD GMC How do Tilts work?

    Why would you think it takes months to convince someone of something? It's simply that you cannot do so with a single sentence and argument.
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    Default Re: NWoD GMC How do Tilts work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    The issue I see is... why would I do that instead of just shoot them? Like, the only time called shots ever comes up is for Headshots.
    So you're not asking about tilts, you're asking about the tactical value of inflicting some particular tilts. That's a completely different kind of question.

    And yes, that's what I meant, I was going from old memory. And I'm trying to figure out why they went and made this thing, which I find weirdly convoluted, instead of just using the Extended Skill rolls where each roll is over a day or so instead of a few seconds or minutes. Cuz as it sits, it takes like... months to get something done from people you don't know, and that's kinda ridiculous.
    The social maneuvering system is meant to cover achieving major social goals. It won't come up for every social interaction. And if convincing someone to do something is going to take months, you need to lean on any leverage you have to make it faster.
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    Default Re: NWoD GMC How do Tilts work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    So you're not asking about tilts, you're asking about the tactical value of inflicting some particular tilts. That's a completely different kind of question.
    Well, that, but then the way they described them is to make combat more "gritty" which implies they should be applied more often. Except I legitimately couldn't find situations where it just didn't feel like overkill to put them on as ST
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    Default Re: NWoD GMC How do Tilts work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    Well, that, but then the way they described them is to make combat more "gritty" which implies they should be applied more often. Except I legitimately couldn't find situations where it just didn't feel like overkill to put them on as ST
    What do you mean by "overkill"? The main goal of tilts, as I see it, is to make violence more varied than just dealing health level damage repeatedly. It's part of the general combat design in GMC/nWoD 2E/CofD. Tilts come in all forms, not just those caused by called shots. In my Hunter: the Vigil game, I used an environmental tilt caused by the monster's power that inflicted a penalty to all physical checks in its lair and the poisoned tilt caused by its spit. Both worked as intended.
    Last edited by Morty; 2021-01-16 at 04:37 PM.
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    Default Re: NWoD GMC How do Tilts work?

    I'm afraid I don't have much to contribute--I've never played WoD--but I was very confused by your title at first

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    Default Re: NWoD GMC How do Tilts work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    What do you mean by "overkill"? The main goal of tilts, as I see it, is to make violence more varied than just dealing health level damage repeatedly. It's part of the general combat design in GMC/nWoD 2E/CofD. Tilts come in all forms, not just those caused by called shots. In my Hunter: the Vigil game, I used an environmental tilt caused by the monster's power that inflicted a penalty to all physical checks in its lair and the poisoned tilt caused by its spit. Both worked as intended.
    I think this may have been where I got my wires crossed, as I was under the impression that Tilts came off of direct attacks or other things that caused direct damage, not just additive things I could just sort of apply to other effects.
    Quote Originally Posted by Guigarci View Post
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    Default Re: NWoD GMC How do Tilts work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackhawk748 View Post
    I think this may have been where I got my wires crossed, as I was under the impression that Tilts came off of direct attacks or other things that caused direct damage, not just additive things I could just sort of apply to other effects.
    Tilts can be anything that influences the character in an action scenario, combat or otherwise. Some of them will be inflicted by direct attacks, like Arm wrack or Leg wrack. Others will be inflicted by supernatural powers or be a feature of the environment. And the ST can apply them at their discretion if necessary. Every tilt on the list has examples of how it can be inflicted.
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    Default Re: NWoD GMC How do Tilts work?

    Yeah Tilts aren't just an add-on to an attack. It's literally anything that affects a combat scenario.

    One of the players get's into a knife-fight when she's jumped in the back alley as she leaves a bar in winter. She may have the Drunk tilt, there may be several Environmental Tilts (representing ice, snow, wind, cold). If she decides to knock over a trash can in the alley, she can add another Environmental Tilt to reflect the treacherous footing she just created.

    Tilts are how we go from a white-room/black-box "two people square up in an empty featureless room" to a memorable fight that includes environmental features.

    INFLICTING tilts is also an easy and fun way of making a fight tense without being lethal. "I claw at his eyes to try and blind him" "I stomp on his toes as hard as I can, then run away" "The larger man twists your arm behind your back."

    As for Social Combat, I blame the book layout. Social Combat is portrayed as the default way of structuring a social interaction, but it's really the exception. It gives structure to what would otherwise be either a one-off roll or an unstructured GM-fiat decision as to whether the long con worked.

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    Default Re: NWoD GMC How do Tilts work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwynchan'rGwyll View Post
    Yeah Tilts aren't just an add-on to an attack. It's literally anything that affects a combat scenario.

    One of the players get's into a knife-fight when she's jumped in the back alley as she leaves a bar in winter. She may have the Drunk tilt, there may be several Environmental Tilts (representing ice, snow, wind, cold). If she decides to knock over a trash can in the alley, she can add another Environmental Tilt to reflect the treacherous footing she just created.

    Tilts are how we go from a white-room/black-box "two people square up in an empty featureless room" to a memorable fight that includes environmental features.

    INFLICTING tilts is also an easy and fun way of making a fight tense without being lethal. "I claw at his eyes to try and blind him" "I stomp on his toes as hard as I can, then run away" "The larger man twists your arm behind your back."

    As for Social Combat, I blame the book layout. Social Combat is portrayed as the default way of structuring a social interaction, but it's really the exception. It gives structure to what would otherwise be either a one-off roll or an unstructured GM-fiat decision as to whether the long con worked.
    I would honestly argue tilts aren't really presented right. Or rather, their importance to combat isn't.
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    Default Re: NWoD GMC How do Tilts work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morty View Post
    I would honestly argue tilts aren't really presented right. Or rather, their importance to combat isn't.
    I think I would agree. With a lot of CoD 2e mechanics, actually! There's so many very cool and unique CoD 2e mechanics that are brilliant but are presented in ways that... just don't make sense. I will say at least that my gaming group picked up on the use of Conditions as roleplaying incentives really quickly, but some other things took a lot of nudging.

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    Default Re: NWoD GMC How do Tilts work?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gwynchan'rGwyll View Post
    I think I would agree. With a lot of CoD 2e mechanics, actually! There's so many very cool and unique CoD 2e mechanics that are brilliant but are presented in ways that... just don't make sense. I will say at least that my gaming group picked up on the use of Conditions as roleplaying incentives really quickly, but some other things took a lot of nudging.
    I have yet to wrangle conditions into being used consistently, really. I apply them when the rules explicitly call for them (like with breaking points, exceptional successes or results of tactics), but I really don't know how to apply them spontaneously and remind players about them. Granted, the second part is as much on the players as it is on the ST.
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