Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 30 of 30
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Gender
    Male

    Default True Sight va Traps

    Hello all,
    I strongly suspect itís been answered but why didnít redcloaks true sight see the trap in the cave? I get the story plot , but is there a DnD answer?
    Ancient gamer slowly rising from torpor, please forgive my ignorance of these modern times.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Quote Originally Posted by Malfarian View Post
    Hello all,
    I strongly suspect itís been answered but why didnít redcloaks true sight see the trap in the cave? I get the story plot , but is there a DnD answer?
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee's Ye Olde SRDe
    True Seeing

    You confer on the subject the ability to see all things as they actually are. The subject sees through normal and magical darkness, notices secret doors hidden by magic, sees the exact locations of creatures or objects under blur or displacement effects, sees invisible creatures or objects normally, sees through illusions, and sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things. Further, the subject can focus its vision to see into the Ethereal Plane (but not into extradimensional spaces). The range of true seeing conferred is 120 feet.

    True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects. It in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent. It does not negate concealment, including that caused by fog and the like. True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding, or notice secret doors hidden by mundane means. In addition, the spell effects cannot be further enhanced with known magic, so one cannot use true seeing through a crystal ball or in conjunction with clairaudience/clairvoyance.
    The trap is not hidden by magic, under blur or displacement effects, invisible, under any illusion, polymorphed, changed, transmuted, or in the Ethereal Plane. It's simply hard to notice. True Seeing does nothing to help.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2021-01-17 at 03:04 AM.
    Spoiler: Avatar by always-awesome Cuthalion
    Show
    Spoiler: Come down with fire
    Show
    Spoiler: Lift my spirit higher
    Show
    Spoiler: Someone's screaming my name
    Show
    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    We're from Europe, not a mirror dimension.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    The trap is not hidden by magic, under blur or displacement effects, invisible, under any illusion, polumored, changed, transmuted, or in the Ethereal Plane. It's simply hard to notice. True Sight does nothing to help.
    Indeed. The fact that Redcloak is not a rogue or other trapfinding class and that Xykon is rushing him are far more relevant in terms of noticing a tiny line of characters that could easily be mistaken for decoration in any case. Also note that the color change in the floor happens after Haley bypasses the trap, so a very noticable barrier for the Order and the readers is that much harder for Redcloak to spot.
    Why should a man be scorned if, finding himself in prison, he tries to get out and go home? Or if, when he cannot do so, he thinks and talks about other topics than jailers and prison-walls?

    Pokemon:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Friend Code: 4484-7979-9172
    DS name: Ben
    In-game name: Lief
    Friend safari: Charmeleon, Pansear, Ninetails


    Brew:

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Yanisa's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2012

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Redcloak should have prepared a Find Traps spell.

    Not that that would help him much, I suspect that his base search skill isn't that great.
    Proudly addicted to pointing out where exactly rules can be found.

    Avatar by Akrim.elf
    ___

    What effects allow a saving throw?
    List of almost all 3.5 skills.
    ..

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Quote Originally Posted by Yanisa View Post
    Redcloak should have prepared a Find Traps spell.

    Not that that would help him much, I suspect that his base search skill isn't that great.
    Team Evil probably don't expect traps, as the Dungeon is filled with monsters that'd trip them if they were there.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    GreataxeFighterGuy

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    In certain cases, I might actually up the DC. True Sight lets you see MORE than normal (the Ethereal Plane, at very least), but if the information you wanted was already in front of you, and you're now viewing more information and searching for people-sized objects, you're going to be at a disadvantage if the actual thing you're looking for isn't highlighted.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Cloudcuckooland, USA

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    Team Evil probably don't expect traps, as the Dungeon is filled with monsters that'd trip them if they were there.
    Also...

    Redcloak: I presume I should prepare Find Traps, considering that the only rogues we in this town are too low-level for the tomb?
    Oona: No, no, do not be wasting your magic! Oona has been having many experiences with Monster Hollow, and it only is sprouting monsters, no traps.
    Last edited by ByzantiumBhuka; 2021-01-17 at 02:27 PM.
    A student by vocation, a D&Der by avocation (a wizard by evocation).

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2012

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Xykon and the MitD would also be able to trigger most traps with very little danger to themselves. We already know Xykon spent his time in Azure City crafting a bunch of protective items to cover weaknesses he has.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Yeah, most traps are ďFireball to the faceĒ like the Draketooth pyramid. And most traps are far less dangerous than most monsters that even have a chance of threatening Team Evil by now, itís not unthinkable that theyíd expect that even if there were traps the bugbears simply hadnít found yet they could probably just facetank them.

    Maybe Redcloak did try to look for traps at first, but after several dozen runs at this point I doubt heíd still be doing that when even one dungeon dive is a strain on his slots and six is risky even by Xykonís standards.
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.

    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
    We also have a TvTropes page!

    Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)

    Extended signature here.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

    Join Date
    May 2014

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    OK for the traps but, I don't see in the description of true sight (or meld into stone) how it could prevent RC to not be fooled by meld into stone.

    It is not IMO something which fit in True Sight description...

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
    Peelee's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Quote Originally Posted by Timy View Post
    OK for the traps but, I don't see in the description of true sight (or meld into stone) how it could prevent RC to not be fooled by meld into stone.

    It is not IMO something which fit in True Sight description...
    Meld Into Stone is Transmutation. Apparently in Stickworld, that's enough for True Seeing to notice. I see no reason to doubt Redcloak, who we have every reason to believe knows how his own spells work. It's debatable whether that ruling would fly at any given table, but it definitely flies in this comic.
    Spoiler: Avatar by always-awesome Cuthalion
    Show
    Spoiler: Come down with fire
    Show
    Spoiler: Lift my spirit higher
    Show
    Spoiler: Someone's screaming my name
    Show
    If anyone has a crayon drawing they would like to put on the Kickstarter Reward Collection Thread, PM me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    We're from Europe, not a mirror dimension.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DwarfClericGuy

    Join Date
    May 2014

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Fair enough...

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Feb 2017

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    The real question is how Tarquin was fooled by Meld into Stone while wearing a Ring of True Seeing.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    The real question is how Tarquin was fooled by Meld into Stone while wearing a Ring of True Seeing.
    How or if.
    Why should a man be scorned if, finding himself in prison, he tries to get out and go home? Or if, when he cannot do so, he thinks and talks about other topics than jailers and prison-walls?

    Pokemon:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Friend Code: 4484-7979-9172
    DS name: Ben
    In-game name: Lief
    Friend safari: Charmeleon, Pansear, Ninetails


    Brew:

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Quote Originally Posted by unbeliever536 View Post
    How or if.
    Ooh, I love that angle. One more level of "testing" Nale? Or possibly his attention was focused on Haley preparing her smokestick arrow.

    As for this broader discussion...maybe this was discussed back in BRitF, but what preparations could the Draketooths have made against True Seeing and similar divinations? It feels like Illusion spells have a pretty hard "kill switch" in that respect. Are there illusions that resist True Seeing?

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Maybe because Durkon was hiding off to the side, and Tarquin wasnít searching hard.
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.

    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
    We also have a TvTropes page!

    Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)

    Extended signature here.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Kelenius's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    The real question is how Tarquin was fooled by Meld into Stone while wearing a Ring of True Seeing.
    He didn't see Durkon when he was right in front of him in the smoke, and True Seeing doesn't help against non-magical smoke. Melded Durkon would also be protected by smoke.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelenius View Post
    He didn't see Durkon when he was right in front of him in the smoke, and True Seeing doesn't help against non-magical smoke. Melded Durkon would also be protected by smoke.
    Durkon was almost right next to Tarquin just when he grabbed the smokestick arrow. That being said, I suppose it'd be easy to argue that events simply unfolded too quickly for Tarquin to notice that.
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.

    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
    We also have a TvTropes page!

    Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)

    Extended signature here.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Scotland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Notice too that the burn mark is still there but Redcloak cannot see it because Oona is in the way and Oona cannot see it because she is looking at Redcloak.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2009

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    Durkon was almost right next to Tarquin just when he grabbed the smokestick arrow. That being said, I suppose it'd be easy to argue that events simply unfolded too quickly for Tarquin to notice that.
    Also possible that True Seeing was still registering a lot of left-over magic, smaller illusions etc from the Draketooths. in #842 they mention that most likely only the most basic ones are still active.
    Very likely that Tarquin comes to the same conclusion when they examine that room.

    So he might just disregard random magic effects in the middle of nowhere without further investigating everything.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    danielxcutter's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Seoul
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Quote Originally Posted by Morquard View Post
    Also possible that True Seeing was still registering a lot of left-over magic, smaller illusions etc from the Draketooths. in #842 they mention that most likely only the most basic ones are still active.
    Very likely that Tarquin comes to the same conclusion when they examine that room.

    So he might just disregard random magic effects in the middle of nowhere without further investigating everything.
    You're confusing True Seeing with Detect Magic; True Seeing just lets you see through transmutations and illusions to see the true form.
    Cool elan (no not that kind) Illithid Slayer by linkele.

    Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Archive Of Our Own FanFiction.net DeviantArt
    We also have a TvTropes page!

    Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)

    Extended signature here.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Metastachydium's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2020

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    I think the thing with Tarquin is simple enough: one cannot see (with True Seeing or otherwise) what one isn't looking at.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    USA
    Gender
    Female

    sigh Re: True Sight va Traps

    Neither Tarquin nor Redcloak could see Durkon (or Minrah, in Redcloak's case) because True Seeing doesn't let you see through stone, and there was stone between their line of sight and Durkon.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Metastachydium's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2020

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    This argument comes up a lot, but the thing is, Redcloak believes he could spot melded creatures with True Seeing, and there's a number of ways in which he can be right. True Seeing allows for the detection of transmutation effects, and Meld iinto Stone is such an effect, which Ė if what we have seen in the comic thus far is anything to go by Ė transmutes the stone rather than the subject (Durkon and Minrah sink into the rock which warps around their bodies as if it was a dense liquid). If that is the case, Redcloak, Tarquin or anyone else cannot notice the person melded into stone, but they can notice the transmuted patch of rock.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2009

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Tarquin also knew there was a trap before the arrow was fired. Maybe because he did see a big patch of transmuted rock to his side.

    He's not s spellcaster, so the finer details of the threat were not obvious to him

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2012

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    He knew that was a trap because it was the most dramatically appropriate location and time for a trap. That's why he said he could feel it.

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    Not a D&D player here, but regarding Tarquin in Girard's pyramid I thought Durkon used the stone melding just to walk through the wall from a parallel hallway, and not that he was stationary hiding in the wall. Would the spell work like that?
    The difference between Mace Windu and Miko Miyazaki:

    Quote Originally Posted by Math_Mage View Post
    It's one thing to take on a Sith Lord outside the law; bisecting an unarmed octogenarian is a little different.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    As long as the wall is thick enough to accommodate you, you can hide in it:

    https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/meldIntoStone.htm
    Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
    New Marut Avatar by Linkele

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    We see Redcloak cast True Seeing in #1222. We do not see him cast it earlier when it might help against Meld Into Stone. Which I presume everyone knows. But it is an Alteration of the stone.

    As for Tarquin, it is a big corridor and smoke can easily get in the way. 10 feet of smoke is enough. For the sake of the Readers, the Giant decided to not show the smoke realistically, so we could see through 10 feet easily, rather that just draw a blank grey panel.

    Given the wording of Glyph of Warding, I would say True Seeing is of zero help there, too. The trap is actually physically there to be seen by normal vision, that anyone could find if only you get down on your hands and knees with a magnifying glass to search inch by inch. (There is a DC that is very high for a low level character or mundane NPC, but a DM would probably handwave away the roll if the character is doing the exact right thing to find the traces of the spell.)

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location

    Default Re: True Sight va Traps

    No doubt Redcloak has used Find Traps in the past, and just gave up on it. To actually find any traps with his likely skill levels, he would have to go so slowly as to wear out Xykon's patience. The spell is worthless to Redcloak for going through the corridors at a normal pace.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •