Pass without Trace - how badly can we abuse it?

[Segev]

Hm. The idea that Pass Without Trace will mend broken glass or door frames seems a bit of a stretch.

Agreed. I think it will prevent unintentional traces of passage, but if you're doing something on purpose - even if it's necessary for passage - that will leave a mark, you will leave that mark. Walking along a plush carpet even in muddy footprints won't leave a trace. Kicking in a locked door will. But picking its lock won't.

[Cikomyr2]

If you swim in a calm lake with that spell. You leave no ripples

[Nagog]

I'd agree that it's mostly unintentional stuff. Though in a divergent course, I'd say if you passed through an unlocked door, the spell may close the door behind you (just as it would straighten a rug your passing ruffled). The spell doesn't alter physics to not ruffle carpets, prevent mud from your boots finding purchase on hardwood floors, drops from your wet cloak from dripping on dry surfaces, etc., but it does clean them up to prevent detection. That's how I'd rule it at least.

[Thunderous Mojo]

If you swim in a calm lake with that spell. You leave no ripples

Excellent point Cikomyr!

Lol...if your group needs to pee in a pool, and don't want anyone to know...it is Pass Without Trace time!

[DwarfFighter]

This thread makes me re-assess my position on the question of intelligent spells.

I've always figured spells as "dumb programs" that have an explicit process to their physics- and entropy-defying effects. Rincewind's issues with that spell of his I always that was stupid.

However, Pass Without Trace is clearly able to re-form mutable substances like snow or mud to remove footprints, annihilating droplets of blood that would leave a trail, yet leave willfully broken or disturbed objects as they are. This surely requires the spell to apply intelligence to its effect.

I guess this also explains how fireballs and lightning bolts can release their energy precisely in the manner the caster intends without requiring the caster to exercise exact precision. The spell knows what it is intended to do.

Also makes subverting Wish spells based on wording even more of a jerk move on the DM's part than it already is.

[Cikomyr2]

This thread makes me re-assess my position on the question of intelligent spells.

I've always figured spells as "dumb programs" that have an explicit process to their physics- and entropy-defying effects. Rincewind's issues with that spell of his I always that was stupid.

However, Pass Without Trace is clearly able to re-form mutable substances like snow or mud to remove footprints, annihilating droplets of blood that would leave a trail, yet leave willfully broken or disturbed objects as they are. This surely requires the spell to apply intelligence to its effect.

I guess this also explains how fireballs and lightning bolts can release their energy precisely in the manner the caster intends without requiring the caster to exercise exact precision. The spell knows what it is intended to do.

Also makes subverting Wish spells based on wording even more of a jerk move on the DM's part than it already is.

See it as a trade-off between power and control.

Replacing dust, mud and snow is just a minor automated telekinetic effect, the strenght of which is weaker than Mage Hand. Automated control of that telekinetic effect is where the power of the spell is at.

Fireballs and lightning bolts are also probably extremely controlled spells. Created in a way to prevent physics-based backlash against the Caster. Or alternatively, maybe the aera limitation of the fireball is what allows the intensification of the heat? You turn a big explosion into a flash oven, the spell has built in range limitation to the distance the heat can travel.

The wish spell is 100% power, no control. It's the purest "programming" spell that allows you to reweave the magical fabric of the world. Better debug the **** out of your query before pressing "execute".

[Tanarii]

However, Pass Without Trace is clearly able to re-form mutable substances like snow or mud to remove footprints, annihilating droplets of blood that would leave a trail, yet leave willfully broken or disturbed objects as they are. This surely requires the spell to apply intelligence to its effect.

Why would it do any of those things when it could just prevent anything from being disturbed in the first place?

[DwarfFighter]

Because it doesn't give you the ability to walk on top of difficult terrain or water. Snow or mud will still slow you down, water will still require you to swim.

[Segev]

This thread makes me re-assess my position on the question of intelligent spells.

I've always figured spells as "dumb programs" that have an explicit process to their physics- and entropy-defying effects. Rincewind's issues with that spell of his I always that was stupid.

However, Pass Without Trace is clearly able to re-form mutable substances like snow or mud to remove footprints, annihilating droplets of blood that would leave a trail, yet leave willfully broken or disturbed objects as they are. This surely requires the spell to apply intelligence to its effect.

I guess this also explains how fireballs and lightning bolts can release their energy precisely in the manner the caster intends without requiring the caster to exercise exact precision. The spell knows what it is intended to do.

Also makes subverting Wish spells based on wording even more of a jerk move on the DM's part than it already is.

Why would it do any of those things when it could just prevent anything from being disturbed in the first place?

Because it doesn't give you the ability to walk on top of difficult terrain or water. Snow or mud will still slow you down, water will still require you to swim.

Water just won't cling to you when you climb out of it, or won't be left behind when you walk, instead staying on your feet. Snow or mud reform like memory-foam rather than staying squelshed into the shape of your footprints. Blood simply doesn't drip off of you onto anything as you pass.

It fails on "intentionally destroyed" things less because it's smart enough to tell you meant to do that, and more because it can't handle the scale...or it can't prevent you from doing something if you force it. Maybe it would have prevented that vase from falling if you bumped it, but when you actually grabbed it, you overwhelmed whatever forces it was delicately adjusting to prevent it from moving.

[HPisBS]

Water just won't cling to you when you climb out of it, or won't be left behind when you walk, instead staying on your feet. Snow or mud reform like memory-foam rather than staying squelshed into the shape of your footprints. Blood simply doesn't drip off of you onto anything as you pass.

It fails on "intentionally destroyed" things less because it's smart enough to tell you meant to do that, and more because it can't handle the scale...or it can't prevent you from doing something if you force it. Maybe it would have prevented that vase from falling if you bumped it, but when you actually grabbed it, you overwhelmed whatever forces it was delicately adjusting to prevent it from moving.

+1
Take my upvote, if you can.

[DwarfFighter]

Water just won't cling to you when you climb out of it, or won't be left behind when you walk, instead staying on your feet. Snow or mud reform like memory-foam rather than staying squelshed into the shape of your footprints. Blood simply doesn't drip off of you onto anything as you pass.

It fails on "intentionally destroyed" things less because it's smart enough to tell you meant to do that, and more because it can't handle the scale...or it can't prevent you from doing something if you force it. Maybe it would have prevented that vase from falling if you bumped it, but when you actually grabbed it, you overwhelmed whatever forces it was delicately adjusting to prevent it from moving.

If you have Pass Without Trace cast and climb out of a river while bleeding, it is outside the scope of the spell that you are magically dry and the bleeding has stopped. You are "leaving no trace", and that's it.

In the case of the accidentally broken vase, well. DMs discretion on how that is somehow not a "trace".

[Segev]

If you have Pass Without Trace cast and climb out of a river while bleeding, it is outside the scope of the spell that you are magically dry and the bleeding has stopped. You are "leaving no trace", and that's it.

In the case of the accidentally broken vase, well. DMs discretion on how that is somehow not a "trace".

So water won't drip off of you, despite being soaked, and blood will likewise fail to do so. ::shrug::