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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    d6 Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Rich once said two things

    1. Belkar would be part of the comic till the end

    2. That comedy gold would be missed not following Belkar to the underworld.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by denthor View Post
    Rich once said two things

    1. Belkar would be part of the comic till the end

    2. That comedy gold would be missed not following Belkar to the underworld.
    You got sources?
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    The treants seem to fulfil the same purpose the rune in Dorukan's dungeon does: to provide a method for the gate to self-destruct in case the wrong kind of people get hold of it.

    GW
    What the ****, Lirian? You had an army, you could just have had people stand guard next to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    What the ****, Lirian? You had an army, you could just have had people stand guard next to it.
    She did. She also had a self-destruct mechanism.

    GW
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    She did. She also had a self-destruct mechanism.

    GW
    People aren't a mecanism, mate. She had two conscious beings permanently stuck to the Gate for sixty years. That's messed up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    People aren't a mecanism, mate. She had two conscious beings permanently stuck to the Gate for sixty years. That's messed up.
    Imean, they were living trees. Chances are good that they agreed to do it and did not mind it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    We're from Europe, not a mirror dimension.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Imean, they were living trees. Chances are good that they agreed to do it and did not mind it.
    Still unnecessary. Roy broke Girard's Gate by swing his sword at it. Just have some treants take turn watching it ad breaking it if needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  8. - Top - End - #38
    Dragon in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Still unnecessary. Roy broke Girard's Gate by swing his sword at it. Just have some treants take turn watching it ad breaking it if needed.
    Never said it was necessary. Heck, half the things we've seen at the Gates have been unnecessary.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2021-03-04 at 02:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    We're from Europe, not a mirror dimension.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Imean, they were living trees. Chances are good that they agreed to do it and did not mind it.
    So if someone is a tree, they'll automatically want a nuclear bomb tied to them with an order to commit suicide by nuclear bomb if things get shaky? Why would anyone gleefully agree to that?

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    People aren't a mecanism, mate. She had two conscious beings permanently stuck to the Gate for sixty years. That's messed up.
    [citation needed]. It's ropes, not eternal chains made of mithril.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Still unnecessary. Roy broke Girard's Gate by swing his sword at it. Just have some treants take turn watching it ad breaking it if needed.
    Like, for example, having them take turns being tied to the gate and thus automatically break it if they are displaced?

    GW
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    buclear bomb
    Bad analogy. Gate is significantly better than no gate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    We're from Europe, not a mirror dimension.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Bad analogy.
    Indeed. If they pull it apart and they have the misfortune of surviving the subsequent explosion, something may lash out of the Rift to erase them from existence forever. Who wouldn't want that job?

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    People aren't a mecanism, mate. She had two conscious beings permanently stuck to the Gate for sixty years. That's messed up.
    There is an indication that they are Treants and no indication that that are anything but permanently attached to the gate.
    However in the interests of fairness they could have been purely natural trees animated by a Treant (Treants can turn trees into Treants when they deem the need great enough - but it is not permanent) for the purpose of the specific battle they were in and they might have reverted back to normal trees afterwards - so you can make some assumptions that might it less bad then shackling conscious beings to a bomb as guards (if you want to).

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Indeed. If they pull it apart and they have the misfortune of surviving the subsequent explosion, something may lash out of the Rift to erase them from existence forever. Who wouldn't want that job?
    From all indications, animals. Plants seem fine with it.
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    We're from Europe, not a mirror dimension.

  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Indeed. If they pull it apart and they have the misfortune of surviving the subsequent explosion, something may lash out of the Rift to erase them from existence forever. Who wouldn't want that job?
    Well, seeing as Sapphire Order paladins were perfectly fine with guarding their gate on a really permanent basis, as in "Death is not an acceptable excuse from not guarding" permanent, I see no reason to assume there can't be a pair of treants who will accept that risk in order to protect the world.
    I think it's better to assume treants were just that Good and selfless than to assume evil and corruption from Lirian's side.

    I really don't like putting anything in signatures, but Shoreward's comic deserves it.

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Ah, the nostalgia of a Belkar Breaks the Tie thread... Smells like 4 years ago...

    Unfortunately it's not likely. Even after ascension, Gods still have birthdays.

  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    From all indications, animals. Plants seem fine with it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Wrangler View Post
    Well, seeing as Sapphire Order paladins were perfectly fine with guarding their gate on a really permanent basis, as in "Death is not an acceptable excuse from not guarding" permanent, I see no reason to assume there can't be a pair of treants who will accept that risk in order to protect the world.
    I think it's better to assume treants were just that Good and selfless than to assume evil and corruption from Lirian's side.
    I don't remember the part wher they were literally tied to it with orders to kill themselves via explosion/Snarl if things turn ugly.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Know this, dragon: I forgive not and forget not!



    I don't remember the part wher they were literally tied to it with orders to kill themselves via explosion/Snarl if things turn ugly.
    That only means treants' sacrifice was bigger, not that they didn't agree or know what they were agreeing to. Why do you prefer denying their noble intent and assuming evil? Lirian is long dead, no need to smear memories of heroic deeds. Assuming corruption in the heroic deeds of the past doesn't bring any good to anyone. Save for the forces of Evil, who would of course like everyone to think that there's no purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riftwolf View Post
    Ah, the nostalgia of a Belkar Breaks the Tie thread... Smells like 4 years ago...

    Unfortunately it's not likely. Even after ascension, Gods still have birthdays.
    Well, if Belkar's followers believe he can't have cake as part of their dogma, he would indeed be unable to enjoy cake, keep that one in mind.

    I really don't like putting anything in signatures, but Shoreward's comic deserves it.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Wrangler View Post
    That only means treants' sacrifice was bigger, not that they didn't agree or know what they were agreeing to. Why do you prefer denying their noble intent and assuming evil?
    Lirian is long dead, no need to smear memories of heroic deeds. Assuming corruption in the heroic deeds of the past doesn't bring any good to anyone. Save for the forces of Evil, who would of course like everyone to think that there's no purity.
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  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Belkar is going to become a Sexy Shoeless God of Diabetes. Stop drawing breath: check. Not enjoying the next cake: check.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Wrangler View Post
    That only means treants' sacrifice was bigger, not that they didn't agree or know what they were agreeing to. Why do you prefer denying their noble intent and assuming evil? Lirian is long dead, no need to smear memories of heroic deeds. Assuming corruption in the heroic deeds of the past doesn't bring any good to anyone. Save for the forces of Evil, who would of course like everyone to think that there's no purity.
    Still, even if the treants agreed to this, all that proves is that the treants were unreasonably nice and Good. Physically tying two sapient planties to a world-destroying abomination to serve as a self-destruct button doesn't become any nicer from that.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Still, even if the treants agreed to this, all that proves is that the treants were unreasonably nice and Good. Physically tying two sapient planties to a world-destroying abomination to serve as a self-destruct button doesn't become any nicer from that.
    I don't think anyone is arguing that Lirian was being nice. Just that the Treants likely agreed to do the thing.
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I don't think anyone is arguing that Lirian was being nice. Just that the Treants likely agreed to do the thing.
    You also said they probably didn't mind it, though, which is quite unlikely to be the case.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    You also said they probably didn't mind it, though, which is quite unlikely to be the case.
    We know, or can guess, several things:

    1. Lirian is confirmed to be Neutral Good.
    2. It is highly unlikely that a Neutral Good person would force innocent sapient beings to tie themselves to a doomsday device against their will. That in itself might force an alignment shift, depending on how strict the DM (or universe, whatever) is.
    3. Therefore, the treants tied to the Gate were probably doing this of their own free will. Or else the treants weren't "innocent," but rather prisoners or something, but giving a prisoner that kind of power would be colossally stupid and there's no real evidence of it, so I'm disregarding the possibility.

    In that sense, they probably "minded" the job in the same way the paladins guarding Soon's Gate "minded" - i.e. they probably didn't really "mind," but that's almost a semantic argument, since whether you "mind" something can be defined with widely varying degrees of strictness.
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  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    You also said they probably didn't mind it, though, which is quite unlikely to be the case.
    If they were unreasonably nice and Good, then they probably didn't. You already agreed that they were unreasonably nice and Good.

    Also, what Emanick said.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2021-03-05 at 03:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    We're from Europe, not a mirror dimension.

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    People aren't a mecanism, mate. She had two conscious beings permanently stuck to the Gate for sixty years. That's messed up.
    They are trees. Being permanently stationary in the same place is kinda their way of living.
    Last edited by The Pilgrim; 2021-03-05 at 04:30 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    If they were unreasonably nice and Good, then they probably didn't. You already agreed that they were unreasonably nice and Good.

    Also, what Emanick said.
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    There's a thing I don't remember:

    Did the Order of the Scribble know that the gates could be weaponized to blackmail the gods and rule the world or they only knew that they were dangerous?
    Life is like a ladder in a henhouse; it is short, but full of guano.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    [citation needed]. It's ropes, not eternal chains made of mithril.


    Like, for example, having them take turns being tied to the gate and thus automatically break it if they are displaced?

    GW
    Ig uess that's a possibility but I don't really see what the point would be? Sounds just like it'd make it harder for them to get away from the blast radius.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Wrangler View Post
    Well, seeing as Sapphire Order paladins were perfectly fine with guarding their gate on a really permanent basis, as in "Death is not an acceptable excuse from not guarding" permanent, I see no reason to assume there can't be a pair of treants who will accept that risk in order to protect the world.
    I think it's better to assume treants were just that Good and selfless than to assume evil and corruption from Lirian's side.
    They're not constricted to the vicinity of the gate when alive, though. I'm not clear wether the ghost-martyrs were summonned from their afterlife or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Still, even if the treants agreed to this, all that proves is that the treants were unreasonably nice and Good.
    People agreeing to do things on their own free will doesn't automatically mean these things are good and healthy. Somebody agreeing to do a suicidal thing when there are better options is not being extremely good, they are being unhelathy or stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
    They are trees. Being permanently stationary in the same place is kinda their way of living.
    Not these ones, they can move.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ginasius View Post
    There's a thing I don't remember:

    Did the Order of the Scribble know that the gates could be weaponized to blackmail the gods and rule the world or they only knew that they were dangerous?
    The Sapphire Guard did not know about the Plan. Shojo didn't mention it and Miko assumed Redcloak was some kind of uber-nihilist trying to end existence.
    Last edited by Fyraltari; 2021-03-05 at 05:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  30. - Top - End - #60
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    Default Re: Belkar/ the Oracle's prophecy/ sexy shoeless god of war

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    The Sapphire Guard did not know about the Plan. Shojo didn't mention it and Miko assumed Redcloak was some kind of uber-nihilist trying to end existence.
    Mr. Scruffy however theorised that Dorukan included a fail safe to prevent the Gate falling into the wrong hands as the Gate itself might enable a plan similiar to The Dark One's, and Miko did decide her duty was to destroy it when it was threatened (not sure how much she was aware of but at least enough to think that was a valid option to prevent it falling into Xykon's hands).

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