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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Trying to develop a build idea I had for a character based around Thunder damage. The idea is that he's a singer whose voice is so loud he can break stuff with it.
    He started out as a Pathfinder character (a Thundercaller Bard) and I'd like to keep him Charisma-based, ideally a bard and definitely proficient in Perform, but I don't see any particularly obvious colleges for using the voice itself as a weapon.

    I've considered:
    • The Tempest Cleric, which looks very cool but isn't quite right for this concept
    • The Order of Scribes Wizard, which I'm sure is awesome but doesn't get much use from Charisma
    • The College of Valor Bard, which might be the best I can make work if I just lean into spells like Thunderwave and Thunderclap
    • The College of Echoes Bard, which is 3rd Party material (Kobold Press, Underworld Player's Guide) and has perfect flavour but I can't tell if it's any good
    • The Ahool Keener Cleric, more 3rd Party (AAW Games, Underworld Races and Classes), which aside from being a Cleric build has great flavour. Again, not sure how effective it is, and it gets very little from Charisma
    • The Swashbuckler Rogue, with the Booming Blade cantrip via the Magic Initiate feat. A bit boring but functional.
    • The Djinn Genie Warlock, which gets some cool Thunder damage abilities but looks kind of weak and mostly focused around hiding in a magic lamp


    In terms of race, I'm leaning towards making this character a dhampir from the above Underworld Player's Guide, which gets bonuses to Dex and Cha.

    Has anyone ever played either of these third party subclasses? Is there another possible way to do this?

    Obviously 3rd Party material is on the table.
    Last edited by Morrison; 2021-01-19 at 12:25 PM.
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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    Trying to develop a build idea I had for a character based around Thunder damage. The idea is that he's a singer whose voice is so loud he can break stuff with it.
    He started out as a Pathfinder character (a Thundercaller Bard) and I'd like to keep him Charisma-based, ideally a bard and definitely proficient in Perform, but I don't see any particularly obvious colleges for using the voice itself as a weapon.

    I've considered:
    • The Tempest Cleric, which looks very cool but isn't quite right for this concept
    • The Order of Scribes Wizard, which I'm sure is awesome but doesn't get much use from Charisma
    • The College of Valor Bard, which might be the best I can make work if I just lean into spells like Thunderwave and Thunderclap
    • The College of Echoes Bard, which is 3rd Party material (Kobold Press, Underworld Player's Guide) and has perfect flavour but I can't tell if it's any good
    • The Ahool Keener Cleric, more 3rd Party (AAW Games, Underworld Races and Classes), which aside from being a Cleric build has great flavour. Again, not sure how effective it is, and it gets very little from Charisma
    • The Swashbuckler Rogue, with the Booming Blade cantrip via the Magic Initiate feat. A bit boring but functional.
    • The Djinn Genie Warlock, which gets some cool Thunder damage abilities but looks kind of weak and mostly focused around hiding in a magic lamp


    In terms of race, I'm leaning towards making this character a dhampir from the above Underworld Player's Guide, which gets bonuses to Dex and Cha.

    Has anyone ever played either of these third party subclasses? Is there another possible way to do this?

    Obviously 3rd Party material is on the table.
    Storm Sorcerer seems made for this.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    Storm Sorcerer seems made for this.
    I don't know, that one is mostly about weather, wind, and lightning. I'm trying to build a character based around sound itself.
    Dun Eistein.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    I’m currently playing a Tempest Cleric 2/ Draconic Sorceror X (bronze dragon) for lighting and thunder damage shenanigans. It’s been a lot of fun and very versatile in my campaign so far. I lucked into some Gauntlets of Ogre power and now have buffing, melee damage, tanking, and spell blasting covered for my party. I try to to play more support so the other players can have fun as it’s their first campaign ever. But I have the capacity to do whatever the party needs.

    You can choose other subclass choices of course, but with this one you could flavor your sound attacks as dragon roars/sonic breath weapons. Or maybe spectral dragon wings that appear and “thunderclap/wave” together, creating impossibly loud noises and blowing enemies back.
    Last edited by Aldo8880; 2021-01-19 at 01:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo8880 View Post
    I’m currently playing a Tempest Cleric 2/ Draconic Sorceror X (bronze dragon) for lighting and thunder damage shenanigans. It’s been a lot of fun and very versatile in my campaign so far. I lucked into some Gauntlets of Ogre power and now have buffing, melee damage, tanking, and spell blasting covered for my party. I try to to play more support so the other players can have fun as it’s their first campaign ever. But I have the capacity to do whatever the party needs.

    You can choose other subclass choices of course, but with this one you could flavor your sound attacks as dragon roars/sonic breath weapons. Or maybe spectral dragon wings that appear and “thunderclap/wave” together, creating impossibly loud noises and blowing enemies back.
    A two level dip in Tempest Cleric might be a good idea, yeah. I'm not really interested in Lightning damage for this character, and there doesn't seem to be a dragon bloodline associated with Thunder.
    Dun Eistein.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Has anyone played an Echoes bard? Are they good?
    Dun Eistein.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Thunderwave and Shatter are both on the Bard spell list, so any Bard sort of works here.

    If you want to get fancy, you get a couple levels of Tempest Cleric levels for Channel Divinity: Destructive Wrath. Since Channel Divinity refreshes on a Short Rest, you can probably use this twice a day, perhaps even a third time.

    As someone who has played a Tempest cleric, I can say that Thunderwave and Shatter scale up with nicely with upcasting. By employing Destructive Wrath, Shatter is actually better than Flamestrike in most circumstances. The point here is you are not screwed by losing out on higher level spells for a Bard/Cleric multi, as even a straight Tempest cleric is often using those biggest slots for an upcast Shatter.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by Snails View Post
    Thunderwave and Shatter are both on the Bard spell list, so any Bard sort of works here.
    Creation Bard may be best the best fit.


    Lvl 3 - Mote of Potential
    "Whenever you give a creature a Bardic Inspiration die, you can utter a note from the Song of Creation to create a Tiny mote of potential, which orbits within 5 feet of that creature. The mote is intangible and invulnerable, and it lasts until the Bardic Inspiration die is lost. The mote looks like a musical note, a star, a flower, or another symbol of art or life that you choose.

    When the creature uses the Bardic Inspiration die, the mote provides an additional effect based on whether the die benefits an ability check, an attack roll, or a saving throw, as detailed below:

    Ability Check. When the creature rolls the Bardic Inspiration die to add it to an ability check, the creature can roll the Bardic Inspiration die again and choose which roll to use, as the mote pops and emits colorful, harmless sparks for a moment.


    Attack Roll. Immediately after the creature rolls the Bardic Inspiration die to add it to an attack roll against a target, the mote thunderously shatters. The target and each creature of your choice that you can see within 5 feet of it must succeed on a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC or take thunder damage equal to the number rolled on the Bardic Inspiration die.

    Saving Throw. Immediately after the creature rolls the Bardic Inspiration die and adds it to a saving throw, the mote vanishes with the sound of soft music, causing the creature to gain temporary hit points equal to the number rolled on the Bardic Inspiration die plus your Charisma modifier (minimum of 1 temporary hit point)."


    With this ability, your PC's voice could essentially be "recorded," to then blare out as your ally makes his attack, causing everyone around him to flinch from the sudden blast of thunderous singing. (That flinch coincidentally makes the target lower his guard enough for your ally's attack to have a better chance of hitting. Seems the best flavor for our purposes here.)


    The later subclass features don't really play into this idea all that much, but lvl 6 could be like singing loud enough to wake the dead - or other inanimate objects - while the actual "creation" stuff could be singing things into existence, temporarily.
    Last edited by HPisBS; 2021-01-20 at 01:09 AM.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quickly eyeballing the School of Echoes:

    Third level is the most interesting level. Enhance/dampen are almost never going to be worth as much as just putting that bardic die on a d20, but they're flavorful and in line with the power level you'd expect. Distort is... bizarrely fiddly and weird, and I'd ask the DM if you could just make it "one minute of sound" or something instead of the weird numerical nonsense, but otherwise it's a nice utility that you should get creative use out of without breaking the game.

    Disrupt is either fine (counterspell that makes up for free scaling with a low DC; not reliable but better than nothing) or amazing (counterspell that does not cost an action). I assume it's meant to cost a reaction, but by the text it doesn't, which holy crap that's powerful, and definitely worth the low DC.

    Sixth is weak. Small die for a smite and one die short on its scaling. Without any built-in way to give yourself easy crits, and no other class features that support your weapon use, this is almost never going to be worth the opportunity cost. Could make for a good gimmick if you poach some ranger spells and want to be a murder archer for a couple rounds a day, though.

    14th level would have been better at 3rd, but it's a non-feature at 14. In and of itself, even if you remove the saving throw from the prone, it'd be weak. By now all your martials are going to have magic weapons, so this is basically just enhance again but with better range. In the context of you already having gotten enhance at 3rd, it's downright terrible.

    Good for a multiclass with tempest cleric or storm sorceror, but I wouldn't take it particularly far on its own.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by Sindeloke View Post
    Quickly eyeballing the School of Echoes:

    Good for a multiclass with tempest cleric or storm sorceror, but I wouldn't take it particularly far on its own.
    Well, that's disappointing. The sixth level ability was the main thing that interested me, since the flavour is perfect.

    Maybe the DM will let me homebrew a Thunder-based draconic sorcerer bloodline or something then, or a Hexblade who does Thunder damage instead of Psychic or Radiant on a smite.
    Last edited by Morrison; 2021-01-20 at 10:19 AM.
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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by Snails View Post
    Thunderwave and Shatter are both on the Bard spell list, so any Bard sort of works here.

    If you want to get fancy, you get a couple levels of Tempest Cleric levels for Channel Divinity: Destructive Wrath. Since Channel Divinity refreshes on a Short Rest, you can probably use this twice a day, perhaps even a third time.

    As someone who has played a Tempest cleric, I can say that Thunderwave and Shatter scale up with nicely with upcasting. By employing Destructive Wrath, Shatter is actually better than Flamestrike in most circumstances. The point here is you are not screwed by losing out on higher level spells for a Bard/Cleric multi, as even a straight Tempest cleric is often using those biggest slots for an upcast Shatter.
    If I did that, which bard college do you think would synergize best with the Cleric levels? Lore?
    Dun Eistein.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Straight Bard. Any subclass is fine. Reflavor the Izzet background from GGtR to your campaign setting, and use Izzet spells. This means access to Call Lightning, Elemental Weapon, Conjure Minor Elementals, and Conjure Elementals. If you run a Lore Bard, you can pick up Lightning Bolt early on. Pick up Destructive Wave and Storm Sphere at 10. Run it as a blaster.

    Dip 2 levels of Tempest Cleric after level 5 (or at 1 and 7) if you really want to optimize.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by mistajames View Post
    Straight Bard. Any subclass is fine. Reflavor the Izzet background from GGtR to your campaign setting, and use Izzet spells. This means access to Call Lightning, Elemental Weapon, Conjure Minor Elementals, and Conjure Elementals. If you run a Lore Bard, you can pick up Lightning Bolt early on. Pick up Destructive Wave and Storm Sphere at 10. Run it as a blaster.

    Dip 2 levels of Tempest Cleric after level 5 (or at 1 and 7) if you really want to optimize.
    Not sure the DM will approve backgrounds that give access to spells, although some of these would be exactly what I'm looking for.

    I want to stress again that this build is about Thunder and sonic effects, not Lightning and electrical things.
    Dun Eistein.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    I've considered:
    [LIST][*]The Tempest Cleric, which looks very cool but isn't quite right for this concept
    Too bad, tempest clerics are fun to play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    [*]The College of Valor Bard, which might be the best I can make work if I just lean into spells like Thunderwave and Thunderclap
    You forgot Shatter. Upcast it. Grab Booming Blade from Magical Secrets at 10, or via Magic Initiate. Late, but better late than never.
    On race: I'd suggest Half Elf or Aasimar. (I never recommend Tiefling, but that's probably not a bad choice either).

    Won't comment in third party material, since I am not a fan of any of it; heck, Eberron: RFtLW is barely OK for me.
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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast View Post
    You forgot Shatter. Upcast it. Grab Booming Blade from Magical Secrets at 10, or via Magic Initiate. Late, but better late than never. .
    Yeah, Shatter is definitely a spell I'll want, and maybe Booming Blade as well if I can swing it.
    Last edited by Morrison; 2021-01-20 at 12:08 PM.
    Dun Eistein.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    I'd go Hexblade/Swashbuckler with Booming Blade, prioritize Cha and use medium armor and a shield. You could also describe force damage as a powerful sound wave and use eldritch blast and/or eldritch smite, but just one level of Warlock and all the rest in Rogue would work fine.

    Edit: High Elf can get Booming Blade at level 1, use Tasha's to swap ability scores and racial proficiencies.
    Last edited by Biffoniacus_Furiou; 2021-01-20 at 12:27 PM.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    For max Thunder damage I would go 2 Tempest Cleric/18 Sorcerer (any will do but I like Clockwork the most). As long as you have Transmute Metamagic you can make ANY damage spell in game Thunder damage for 1 SP. And with Tempest you can make 1 nuke/short rest that will deal maximum damage. For example on level 7 you can cast Thunderball (Fireball with Thunderdamage and deal 66 Thunder damage or half if they pass saving throw.

    For absolutely max dmg, go Draconic Sorcerer: Lighting and you will also get +5 to dmg. So on level 7 you could cast Lightningball spell that will deal 70 dmg or 35 on pass.
    Last edited by Sol0botmate; 2021-01-20 at 01:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    Edit: High Elf can get Booming Blade at level 1, use Tasha's to swap ability scores and racial proficiencies.
    I really like the flavour the dhampir brings to this character, but aside from perfect ability scores, its other abilities aren't very useful.
    I didn't know about this rule in Tasha's but you're right, it makes the High Elf the clearly superior choice. Frankly, I wouldn't allow that rule if I were DMing.
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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    I really like the flavour the dhampir brings to this character, but aside from perfect ability scores, its other abilities aren't very useful.
    I didn't know about this rule in Tasha's but you're right, it makes the High Elf the clearly superior choice. Frankly, I wouldn't allow that rule if I were DMing.
    5e has a bit of a problem of limiting viable race choices with ability score bonuses. You want to make a [race] that does [thing], there's a few classes that can do [thing] but [race] doesn't get the right ability score bonuses for most/all of those classes. Or you want to play [class] so your race choices are automatically narrowed down to less that 1/5 of the races/subraces available. Tasha's fixed those and other similar situations by making it so you can move around a given race's ability score bonuses. It also allows an Elf Fighter or similar to actually get some practical use out of the now redundant racial weapon proficiencies by swapping them for tool proficiencies. Overall I'd say it's a good change.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post
    Trying to develop a build idea I had for a character based around Thunder damage. The idea is that he's a singer whose voice is so loud he can break stuff with it.
    Most varieties of Bard, Sorcerer and Warlock would do just fine. Sounds like you have an excellent character concept.

    Edit: Performer background would work well

    Last edited by Kane0; 2021-01-20 at 03:22 PM.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    A sorcerer with the Transmute metamagic can use 1 sorcery point to convert any acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison damage spell to thunder. Convert fireball to thunderball and make it a shout. You could probably combine this with storm sorcerer for some decent synergies.

    Multiclass with a few levels of bard to get the bard aspect to it. Lore bard for skills and cutting words for example though some of the other bard options might be more thematic for you.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Most varieties of Bard, Sorcerer and Warlock would do just fine. Sounds like you have an excellent character concept.

    Edit: Performer background would work well

    Probably going to give him Performer background, yeah. The concept for the character is basically the song "Shout" by the Isley Brothers.
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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by Keravath View Post
    A sorcerer with the Transmute metamagic can use 1 sorcery point to convert any acid, cold, fire, lightning or poison damage spell to thunder. Convert fireball to thunderball and make it a shout. You could probably combine this with storm sorcerer for some decent synergies.
    I could do that, but the end result would basically be a less-effective sorcerer, since I'd be using up sorcery points to better fit my theme rather than to make my spells stronger.
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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Even with reflavoring and reskinning, there isn't a terribly fantastic subclass option in the official books for a bard who wants to melt their opponents' faces with their voice. Which is kind of odd, isn't it? You'd think that would be a more popular concept.

    Lore Bard still feels like a solid base, though - you can flavor its Cutting Words feature as your character screaming at an enemy with their powerful voice, momentarily distracting or disorienting them from their current task and harming their roll accordingly. Their Additional Magical Secrets feature also gives you a couple of spells pilfered from other classes to play with, earlier than other bards' Secrets. My recommendations:

    2nd Level, Gust of Wind - Sort of situationally useful, but I love the image of your character screaming their lungs out to the point where it physically pushes other creatures away, their hair flying everywhere, desperately trying to walk against it but slipping in their steps, etc. It's such a good match for your concept, plus the utility of you screaming away gas or vapor-based attacks and smokescreens is also decent.

    3rd Level, Fly - Bards don't get it otherwise, and again, the image of you flying through the air a la Banshee, propelled by the sound of your own voice is too good to pass up. And hey - Fly is Fly, the ubermobility spell.

    The extra skill proficiencies Lore Bards get might feel tacked on (since I assume Performance and Intimidation are the two you want to hit), but Peerless Skill isn't bad in a pinch, and you can always use it as an excuse to solve a problem with your talent (i.e. your voice blasts the door open with an Athletics check), though Stealth might be hard to spin that way.

    For your higher level magical secrets, I recommend Disintegrate (vaporizing enemies with your voice is amazing) and Move Earth (sculpt the very ground itself with your seismic pipes). See if your DM will let you swap one of the basic attack cantrips' damage types for thunder - Vicious Mockery with thunder makes sense (they have disadvantage since they just got screamed at), and it'll be nice to have a thunder-damage option not linked to a spell slot.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by Biffoniacus_Furiou View Post
    5e has a bit of a problem of limiting viable race choices with ability score bonuses. You want to make a [race] that does [thing], there's a few classes that can do [thing] but [race] doesn't get the right ability score bonuses for most/all of those classes. Or you want to play [class] so your race choices are automatically narrowed down to less that 1/5 of the races/subraces available. Tasha's fixed those and other similar situations by making it so you can move around a given race's ability score bonuses. It also allows an Elf Fighter or similar to actually get some practical use out of the now redundant racial weapon proficiencies by swapping them for tool proficiencies. Overall I'd say it's a good change.
    Yeah, I guess. I'm glad it's there, but it feels like it creates a lot of cheese potential. Definitely one for DM's discretion.

    So I guess I'll probably take that two-level dip in Cleric (Tempest) and then go all in on Bard (probably Valour).
    Dun Eistein.

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    Default Re: Charismatic Thunder damage-based character

    Quote Originally Posted by Abracadangit View Post
    Even with reflavoring and reskinning, there isn't a terribly fantastic subclass option in the official books for a bard who wants to melt their opponents' faces with their voice. Which is kind of odd, isn't it? You'd think that would be a more popular concept.

    Lore Bard still feels like a solid base, though - you can flavor its Cutting Words feature as your character screaming at an enemy with their powerful voice, momentarily distracting or disorienting them from their current task and harming their roll accordingly. Their Additional Magical Secrets feature also gives you a couple of spells pilfered from other classes to play with, earlier than other bards' Secrets. My recommendations:

    2nd Level, Gust of Wind - Sort of situationally useful, but I love the image of your character screaming their lungs out to the point where it physically pushes other creatures away, their hair flying everywhere, desperately trying to walk against it but slipping in their steps, etc. It's such a good match for your concept, plus the utility of you screaming away gas or vapor-based attacks and smokescreens is also decent.

    3rd Level, Fly - Bards don't get it otherwise, and again, the image of you flying through the air a la Banshee, propelled by the sound of your own voice is too good to pass up. And hey - Fly is Fly, the ubermobility spell.

    The extra skill proficiencies Lore Bards get might feel tacked on (since I assume Performance and Intimidation are the two you want to hit), but Peerless Skill isn't bad in a pinch, and you can always use it as an excuse to solve a problem with your talent (i.e. your voice blasts the door open with an Athletics check), though Stealth might be hard to spin that way.

    For your higher level magical secrets, I recommend Disintegrate (vaporizing enemies with your voice is amazing) and Move Earth (sculpt the very ground itself with your seismic pipes). See if your DM will let you swap one of the basic attack cantrips' damage types for thunder - Vicious Mockery with thunder makes sense (they have disadvantage since they just got screamed at), and it'll be nice to have a thunder-damage option not linked to a spell slot.
    I could definitely do this with Lore, yeah. I like the idea of him as a light melee kinda guy, rather than pure magical artillery, though, which is why I was looking at Valour.
    I guess the Tempest Cleric dip should give me a bit of up-front survivability though.
    Dun Eistein.

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