are shadow creatures treated as summoned creatures?

[newguydude1]

You use material from the Plane of Shadow to shape quasi-real illusions of one or more creatures, objects, or forces. Shadow conjuration can mimic any sorcerer or wizard conjuration (summoning) or conjuration (creation) spell of 3rd level or lower.

i think the answer is no. theyre not summoned, theyre created, and theyre illusions, so they shouldnt be treated like summoned creatures for anything, including stuff like protection from evil. which is why they also receive 0 benefit with summoning boosting feats and items.

which is why i also think they dont disappear upon reaching 0hp. i think they bleed out.

Spoiler: original first post

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shadow conjuration can mimic any summon monster spell. but nowhere does it say that the spell gets the descriptor of the spell it mimics.

so if you use shadow conjuration to create a shadow celestial dog, the spell is a illusion (shadow) not illusion (shadow, good) or illusion (shadow, good, summon) because shadow conjuration doesnt say it gains the spell descriptors of the spell its mimicking, and although smi says you gain the good descriptor when summoning a celestial dog, your not summoning anything, so you don't get the good descriptor.
which makes sense because your not summoning a creature. your creating a quasi-real illusion.

so this means that augment summoning cannot work with shadow conjuration because its not a summon. but on the other hand, protection from evil, a spell that prevents summoned creatures from harming the warded creature, should offer no protection from the shadow creature because its not a summoned creature right?

or am i wrong?

[Zanos]

I am not sure how the spell descriptors are relevant in this case. You are correct that a shadow conjuration does not become an [Evil] spell when you use it to summon an Evil creature, but that only rarely matters unless you are worried about jeopardizing your alignment.

so this means that augment summoning cannot work with shadow conjuration because its not a summon

Correct, because the text of the feat requires the spell you use to be a Summoning spell.

the shadow creature because its not a summoned creature right

Incorrect. Spells that are not Summoning spells can still have the result of summoning a creature, as is the case with Shadow Conjuration.

You would get a similar result if you used limited wish to replicate a summon monster spell. It is still a summoned creature, even if the spell used to summon it was not a Summoning spell.

[newguydude1]

Incorrect. Spells that are not Summoning spells can still have the result of summoning a creature, as is the case with Shadow Conjuration.

You would get a similar result if you used limited wish to replicate a summon monster spell. It is still a summoned creature, even if the spell used to summon it was not a Summoning spell.

limited wish is a very good point. i had not thought of that, but i dont think its the same as shadow conjuration.

limited wish is different from shadow conjuration because its not mimicking spells, its duplicating spells. i think theres an important difference here. creatures summoned by limited wish are actual real creatures brought in from somewhere else, where as shadow creatures are created from shadow stuff not brought in from another plane, and they dont exist beforehand.

unless im wrong.

ok so we have a ring of counterspells with fireball loaded in.
does it stop a fireball from limited wish?
does it stop a shadow fireball from shadow evocation?

like how can a shadow creature be treated like a summon when it hasnt been summoned?

does a dimensional lock spell stop a shadow conjuration from creating a shadow creature?

so confusing.

edit: mixed up shadow evocation and shadow conjuration.

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rather than making a new thread i recycled this thread for the new question.

i really need to know if shadow creatures are treated like summoned creatures or not. and whether the restrictions for summoned creatures apply to shadow creatures.

[gogogome]

I'd say the spell tries to mimic summon monster spell as best it could. So if the creatures hit 0 hp, they disappear instead of bleeding out, because the spell is trying to trick other people into thinking its a summon monster spell.

Now you could say you could make the spell stop pretending to be SM and be like a completely different spell, but nowhere in the spell description does it say you can make the spell stop pretending to be SM.

So even if it doesn't have the summon tag, everything that affects summons affect shadow conjurations, including protection from evil.

[newguydude1]

I'd say the spell tries to mimic summon monster spell as best it could. So if the creatures hit 0 hp, they disappear instead of bleeding out, because the spell is trying to trick other people into thinking its a summon monster spell.

Now you could say you could make the spell stop pretending to be SM and be like a completely different spell, but nowhere in the spell description does it say you can make the spell stop pretending to be SM.

So even if it doesn't have the summon tag, everything that affects summons affect shadow conjurations, including protection from evil.

ok yeah whatever that makes sense.

thanks. ill purge shadow conjuration from my mind.