All Things Monk

[blackjack50]

I am a big fan of the Monk class (or even Monk NPCs). Maybe not so much the SPECIFIC mechanics, but definitely the backstories/role plays with it. So I’d love for people to join in and share their favorite parts of monks, favorite ways to play if, tips/tricks, and even some finer points of the class that others may not know.

I will start with my recent discovery of drunken master. This class is a blast to play. Especially if your DM allows you to describe your actions. I like to use real life stuff when I describe my characters, and so I used this man as my “character model” in terms of how I describe his movements:

https://youtu.be/xL9TDcXvDCw

Anyway? Tell me more about your stuff? What do you like? What you like to use?

Also...if anyone knows ways to make a monk better at grappling and then tripping/knocking someone prone? I’d like to know. I’d love to describe a judoka at one point. But it seems the only way is open hand so far. Or at least the most efficient.

[blackjack50]

Oh. Also. Who do you think pairs well with a monk in terms of team? I feel like a melee tank monk conjunction is super strong if you can use open hand to get someone prone.

[LudicSavant]

I just added a Monk build to my Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds.

[blackjack50]

I just added a Monk build to my Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds.

I know I am a bit of a purest, but it looks interesting. I never went shadow monk. I almost did, but we had a rogue in the party (who had to quit due to job change unfortunately...right after we hit level 4). I would like to go back and play shadow monk from level 3-6.

[Samayu]

I played an open hand monk through about L12. It was so much fun! Step of the wind, wall running, unarmored movement - I could get anywhere. I could bypass the mooks and take out the mage. I could get the archers on the roof. Also, I could prone opponents for the fighter to wail on. The downside was that I wasn't very effective against high-STR opponents, so I stalled in some fights.

[Scarytincan]

I just added a Monk build to my Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds.

Just to nitpick one thing near the start of the guide, the new eldritch adept feat can't be used to get devil's sight as the pre req is Spellcasting (the feature, from spellcasting classes) not just the ability to cast spells, sadly. Could dip into warlock (ew) or it would work with the level dip into cleric though.

(edited to add) Twilight domain could be thematic, and add another source of advantage...

Don't think you specifically recommended the feat but mentioned devil's sight in the tashas paragraph, so wanted to throw in the clarification...

[LudicSavant]

Just to nitpick one thing near the start of the guide, the new eldritch adept feat can't be used to get devil's sight as the pre req is Spellcasting (the feature, from spellcasting classes) not just the ability to cast spells, sadly. Could dip into warlock (ew) or it would work with the level dip into cleric though.

Don't think you specifically recommended the feat but mentioned devil's sight in the tashas paragraph, so wanted to throw in the clarification...

The build doesn't use Devil's Sight, it uses Blind-Fighting.

[Scarytincan]

The build doesn't use Devil's Sight, it uses Blind-Fighting.

I know, but devil's sight was mentioned in the same paragraph as tashas book at the start, no? Ultimately inconsequential but...

[LudicSavant]

I know, but devil's sight was mentioned in the same paragraph as tashas book at the start, no? Ultimately inconsequential but...

Yeah. Basically that's for those who dip Cleric or something.

[Scarytincan]

All good, I figured 👍🙂 my ocd just wanted to point out the clarification hehe

[Scarytincan]

Otherwise I liked it! Toyed with a similar idea myself, nice to see some variant thoughts

[LudicSavant]

All good, I figured 👍🙂 my ocd just wanted to point out the clarification hehe

I can edit it just to make sure it's clearer. 👍🙂

Otherwise I liked it! Toyed with a similar idea myself, nice to see some variant thoughts

Thanks!

[elyktsorb]

I've been toying around with Astral Self Monk and Spore Druid multiclass, I will have more to share on this is I ever find a game to play it in.

[animewatcha]

Just to nitpick one thing near the start of the guide, the new eldritch adept feat can't be used to get devil's sight as the pre req is Spellcasting (the feature, from spellcasting classes) not just the ability to cast spells, sadly. Could dip into warlock (ew) or it would work with the level dip into cleric though.

There a sage's advice or something to back this up yet? I would racial spellcasting would fit the bill.

[jojosskul]

Regarding your grappling concerns, Astral Self monk makes a pretty darn good one as a second option on the table. The class makes both your strength attacks AND checks Wis based while the arms are active, so it's much less MAD than before. Can't make as good of a Suplex build as you might like since jump distance is still strength based, but you can shove and grapple to your hearts content. Start with a 17 Wis and grab Skill Expert for Athletics expertise at 4 (or 1 I guess with custome race from tasha's) and you're in good shape.

Way of Mercy can do a decent job in a pinch as well once you hit 6. You have no way to gain advantage on grapples/shoves, but with Hands of Harm you can give the enemy DISADVANTAGE by imposing the poisoned condition. That plus even base Athletics proficiency (though Skill Expert is still there if you want it) should be enough for some light shoving/grappling when the situation calls for it as long as you have a 10 or 12 in Strength. Which I like to do with monk anyway for step of the wind jumping shenanigans.

[LudicSavant]

There a sage's advice or something to back this up yet? I would racial spellcasting would fit the bill.

Why would it need a sage advice? It specifically says you need the Spellcasting class feature.

[LudicSavant]

Also...if anyone knows ways to make a monk better at grappling and then tripping/knocking someone prone? I’d like to know. I’d love to describe a judoka at one point. But it seems the only way is open hand so far. Or at least the most efficient.

-Stun someone. This Incapacitates them, which makes grapple/shove checks against them autosucceed.

- Improve your movement options so that when you do grapple people, you can move them farther, suplex them
harder (like by running up a wall and falling), or cheese grater them more on hazards.

- Astral Monk arms can help you grapple.

- Way of Mercy’s Poison condition gives an enemy Disadvantage on skill checks.

- Open Palm 3 knocks people prone on flurries.

- Peace Cleric 1 is a great dip that gives +1d4 to skill checks for 10 minutes prof/day.

- Battle Master is a useful multiclass and can knock people Prone with Tripping Attack (as my Shadow Monk used).

- The Skill Expert feat can even out an odd Wis or Dex score while boosting Athletics.

- The Fey-Touched or Magic Initiate feats can give you Hex, which gives no-save Disadvantage on ability checks. And Fey-Touched can even out your Wis score. It does unfortunately compete for your bonus action.

[blackjack50]

I played an open hand monk through about L12. It was so much fun! Step of the wind, wall running, unarmored movement - I could get anywhere. I could bypass the mooks and take out the mage. I could get the archers on the roof. Also, I could prone opponents for the fighter to wail on. The downside was that I wasn't very effective against high-STR opponents, so I stalled in some fights.

That is exactly what drove me crazy. Our DM was good about putting some fights in that I just couldn’t use my mobility in because I’d outshine my other party members in combat.

[Unoriginal]

- Battle Master is a useful multiclass and can knock people Prone with Tripping Attack (as my Shadow Monk used).

Can also get manoeuvres via the Fighting Initiate feat.

[LudicSavant]

Can also get manoeuvres via the Fighting Initiate feat.

The martial adept feat does the same thing, but with more maneuvers known. Though I rarely find either worth the ASI, personally.

[blackjack50]

Regarding your grappling concerns, Astral Self monk makes a pretty darn good one as a second option on the table. The class makes both your strength attacks AND checks Wis based while the arms are active, so it's much less MAD than before. Can't make as good of a Suplex build as you might like since jump distance is still strength based, but you can shove and grapple to your hearts content. Start with a 17 Wis and grab Skill Expert for Athletics expertise at 4 (or 1 I guess with custome race from tasha's) and you're in good shape.

Way of Mercy can do a decent job in a pinch as well once you hit 6. You have no way to gain advantage on grapples/shoves, but with Hands of Harm you can give the enemy DISADVANTAGE by imposing the poisoned condition. That plus even base Athletics proficiency (though Skill Expert is still there if you want it) should be enough for some light shoving/grappling when the situation calls for it as long as you have a 10 or 12 in Strength. Which I like to do with monk anyway for step of the wind jumping shenanigans.

Oh I like. I’ve been trying to come up with a home brew Judoka for a while, but nothing quite fits the bill. It would need to be able to institute prone, shoves, redirected attacks, and such. Something that is balanced and is still a monk at heart, but maybe a little less weapons based and a bit more “control” and movement.

[jojosskul]

Oh I like. I’ve been trying to come up with a home brew Judoka for a while, but nothing quite fits the bill. It would need to be able to institute prone, shoves, redirected attacks, and such. Something that is balanced and is still a monk at heart, but maybe a little less weapons based and a bit more “control” and movement.

Well, if you're looking for redirected attacks do I have the subclass for you. Drunken Master. Tipsy Sway literally let's you redirect a missed melee attack on you to hit someone else besides the attacker who is also within five feet for 1 ki point and your reaction. And that redirected attack AUTOMATICALLY hits. And all monks have deflect missiles, so you're only limited by your reaction. And honestly any class with extra attack and Athletics expertise can shove/grapple pretty reliably. The Athletics score of most creatures, just like most PCs, isn't great.

That combines with Stunning Strike making all your grapple/shove checks auto succeed if it sticks, I'd say reflavor yourself some Drunken Master, start with a 17 Dex, take Skill Expert for Athletics expertise at 4 and don't COMPLETELY dump strength (like I said, 10 or 12 will be fine.)

[blackjack50]

Well, if you're looking for redirected attacks do I have the subclass for you. Drunken Master. Tipsy Sway literally let's you redirect a missed melee attack on you to hit someone else besides the attacker who is also within five feet for 1 ki point and your reaction. And that redirected attack AUTOMATICALLY hits. And all monks have deflect missiles, so you're only limited by your reaction. And honestly any class with extra attack and Athletics expertise can shove/grapple pretty reliably. The Athletics score of most creatures, just like most PCs, isn't great.

That combines with Stunning Strike making all your grapple/shove checks auto succeed if it sticks, I'd say reflavor yourself some Drunken Master, start with a 17 Dex, take Skill Expert for Athletics expertise at 4 and don't COMPLETELY dump strength (like I said, 10 or 12 will be fine.)

I did just play that class and thoroughly enjoyed it. But only while I DMed and it was an NPC.

[blackjack50]

You know an interesting character to think about. Have you heard of Helm the Hammerhand from lord of the rings?

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Helm_Hammerhand

Just figured I would share this one with y’all. Could easily be made a fun build.

[Heyboo]

Long time lurker, first time poster here.
With just a 2 level dip into Rogue (for which you already have the DEX requirement) you can get expertise (athletics) for grappling and Cunning Action.
Cunning Action gives you 2/3rds of your baseline Ki spenders for free (dash and disengage- unless you really want to double your jump distance- on bonus) allowing you to dump all Ki into flurry of blows, Stunning strike attempts, or subclass features.
Going past Diamond Soul at monk 14 feels depressing anyway, so maybe find a rogue subclass with sympathetic 3rd level features (Scout's skirmisher, Swashbuckler's fancy footwork, maybe Theif's Second Story Work for mobility) and even stick around til Rogue 4 for the ASI.

[blackjack50]

Long time lurker, first time poster here.
With just a 2 level dip into Rogue (for which you already have the DEX requirement) you can get expertise (athletics) for grappling and Cunning Action.
Cunning Action gives you 2/3rds of your baseline Ki spenders for free (dash and disengage- unless you really want to double your jump distance- on bonus) allowing you to dump all Ki into flurry of blows, Stunning strike attempts, or subclass features.
Going past Diamond Soul at monk 14 feels depressing anyway, so maybe find a rogue subclass with sympathetic 3rd level features (Scout's skirmisher, Swashbuckler's fancy footwork, maybe Theif's Second Story Work for mobility) and even stick around til Rogue 4 for the ASI.

Holy crap I love this. When do you think the rogue dip should start? After level 3 monk?

[HPisBS]

Holy crap I love this. When do you think the rogue dip should start? After level 3 monk?

If going that route, I'd start with Rogue for the extra skill. The thing is, Rogue is so packed with good features that you'd be kinda hard pressed to find a level when going over to Monk will be more appealing than another lvl of Rogue lol

[Zaile]

If going that route, I'd start with Rogue for the extra skill. The thing is, Rogue is so packed with good features that you'd be kinda hard pressed to find a level when going over to Monk will be more appealing than another lvl of Rogue lol

I'd say Rogue 1 (skills) > Monk 5 (extra attack) > Rogue 2 > Monk X

Mobility and opportunity attacks are a lot weaker at Tier 1 than Tier 2. You have Ki to get you out of bad spots until cunning action when it matters at tier 2.

Even more fun, the "dedicated weapon" monk feature from Tasha's lets the longsword prof you get from Rogue to be used as a monk weapon. Slash, slash, kick, kick "Roadhouse"

For grappling, go Astral and you can grapple up to 4 creatures using WIS to your already Expertised Athletics.

[MaxWilson]

Going past Diamond Soul at monk 14 feels depressing anyway

Huh, I've never thought that personally. Diamond Soul is just when monk is starting to get really, really good. Empty Body at Monk 18 is where you suddenly become tankier than a Barbarian (resistance to all damage except Force AND disadvantage to enemy attacks? yes please).

I suppose it could depend on subclass, and I could understand someone taking a two-level dip because they want something else really, really badly and don't care much about Monk 19 and 20, but delaying Monk 18 will be painful because Empty Body is better than most class's capstones.

[stoutstien]

Huh, I've never thought that personally. Diamond Soul is just when monk is starting to get really, really good. Empty Body at Monk 18 is where you suddenly become tankier than a Barbarian (resistance to all damage except Force AND disadvantage to enemy attacks? yes please).

I suppose it could depend on subclass, and I could understand someone taking a two-level dip because they want something else really, really badly and don't care much about Monk 19 and 20, but delaying Monk 18 will be painful because Empty Body is better than most class's capstones.

To be perfectly honest, empty body is the Monk's capstone. The last ASI is standard fare and the level 20 feature is window dressing. Not a bad thing IMO. Too many of the classes have a really great level 20 ability or feature that honestly will never get used that often for most players so it kind of feels bad.

If I had to redo the entire system I would put the most interesting feature at lv 11. 13 at the latest.