New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SangoProduction's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Sniper Sphere (Spheres in Review)

    Since Barrage was such a small sphere, I'll work on its single-shot counter part, Sniper sphere. And unlike Barrage, I was extremely underwhelmed each time I looked at it. So, let's see if it can surprise us.

    Post-Review Analysis: It's like destruction sphere, but worse, with fewer options, virtually no AoE and less damage. And if you're not using a gun, it targets regular AC. It is at least more cumbersome for enemies to get rid of the two best condition-granting snipe talents. This is suddenly pretty neat if you are using a class archetype that allows you to use destructive blasts as "actual" weapons, which would let you double up on penalties. But if I'm pulling out that tactic to make this good, then the sphere really is not good.
    But it's pretty fun for breaking verisimilitude by simultaneously pinning someone to the ground and disabling their shield until they break a tiny lead ball that's holding them down.

    Full or Partial BAB: Outside of chance to hit, there is no functional difference between partial and full BAB until several levels in.

    Flex Talents: If you are using this sphere at all, the only flex talent one my take is Steady Shot vs concealment and cover. Or Shield Shot vs some guy with a tower shield. Otherwise, there's not much in the way of "situational" use in this sphere. Maybe Tactile Shot, if you are too lazy to get up and crack a window. But I'm pretty sure you could "open" the window with a shot regardless.

    Ranking system:
    (S) Superb: You always want this. It's awesome.
    (G) Good: You would certainly not complain about having this, especially in the right builds / situations.
    (B) Bad: While perhaps better than nothing, you are giving up something for it, so probably shouldn't without a good reason.
    (N) No.
    <Angle brackets> around a rating indicates situational usefulness, and how good it is in that favorable situation.

    - Special Ratings:
    (C) Cheese: A talent so broken that it will be instantly banned if you use it as you could.
    (I) Impossible: Can't be rated because it is just not defined enough to give a meaningful rating - it depends too much on DM ruling, or personal use. I'll just place it where I guess the average result would put it.
    (F) Flavor: This indicates that the main draw to the talent is going to be its inherent fluff or flavor, rather than raw power or utility.
    Base Sphere

    Precise Shot: Doesn't get a fancy name like Barrage, but Precise Shot for free is nice. Especially if your group isn't making uses of Elephant in the Room.

    Deadly Shot: An attack action that lets you add the effect of a snipe talent. Or expend focus for 1d10 or 1d6 damage.
    Compared to Barrage: This grants no damage, and costs nothing as an attack action, while barrage grants an extra attack. For expending focus, barrage grants a long bow 3d8 damage potential, while Deadly Shot grants 1d8+1d10. But deadly shot doesn't have an attack penalty.
    In most cases, without a killer Snipe talent, this is just worse, especially as 2 attacks are more reliable at hitting each round than going all in on one.

    Snipe talents: You may apply any one snipe talent's effects to a Deadly Shot you take.
    Spoiler: General Talents
    Show
    Lethal Precision (G-S): This is actually pretty cool, and very much in theme for a sniper. As far as the flat added damage being applicable...those generally prefer multi-attack actions...like barrage. But this is very much in theme.
    Sniper Shot (<G-S>): Apply 2 snipe talents, in exchange for using a full round action. Still leaves you with a swift action thereafter. Some snipe talents also are harder to get rid of with multiple uses. And arguably Thread the Needle can be an instant blind if applied twice.
    THIS TALENT DOESN'T DETAIL HOW IT WORKS WITH THOSE! So you have to work with your GM to see if it applies, and if destroying an arrow that was both a Hindering Projectile and Shield Shot removes both penalties at once, since it's just 1 arrow, presumably.

    Perfect Shot (<B-G>): If your GM rules that this still affects the Deadly Shot you spend your martial focus on, then cool. It's neat. Not great, until level 10, but neat.
    Focusing Reload (B-G): I don't much fancy spending a move action just to stand there. But it's a way to regenerate your martial focus without leaving the sphere, I guess.

    Covering Fire (B): So... you give up your attack and (snipe) talent, to perhaps make an opportunity attack... OK. Maybe if you're setting up behind a hallway, about to face a horde of enemies, and you took one of the multi-AoO feats...as an archer.
    Unblockable (B): This is the niche among niche effects. You counter the counter to arrows. Granted, anyone with Deflect Arrows just can't be targeted by you, period. Which is why it's all the way up in B tier.

    Targeted Assault (N-B): Optimistically, this is +5 damage by level 10. Meh? I mean. By an even more optimistic reading, ignoring the OR in the description, if you have all the elemental enchants, and fire against something with DR and all elemental resists, and somehow also has hardness...then it's probably a creature designed with absurd toughness, and your attack will still deal nothing after reductions, but it's +30 damage. Which is at least notable.
    Retaliating Fire (<N-B>): Hey. More AoO stuff. But it's a punishment for missing you in a very specific way - with a ranged attack. But it's not only with arrows, so it applies to spells too, which makes this so much more useful. Takes a swift action each round to maintain the ability, so it's exclusively useful if you don't have something better to do with your swift action.

    Breaking Blast (F): Dealing full damage to objects is perhaps one of the least used actions you will probably ever take. Especially as an archer. But who knows. Maybe you can shoot an arrow through a noose and save someone, and not simply have that be a purely narrative action. (And for that, you could have just taken Tactile Shot instead, and also gotten a bit of utility out of it.)


    Spoiler: Snipe Talents
    Show
    Steady Shot (<S>): If concealment and cover are regular mainstays of your game, then here you go.
    Tangling Shot (S): There we go! Nearly the last snipe talent, and we finally have one with penalties can stick! Grants the entangled condition on hit, no save. Takes a standard action to end the effect.

    Thread the Needle (G-S): Takes 2 consecutive hits to blind for 1 minute. Or you might get lucky and have the dazzle last a little while. Blind is quite the killer condition. Bumps up to S+ at BAB 10, when you get to immediately blind.

    Hindering Projectiles (G): You cost someone a move action, or take some stacking penalties. Best against non-SoM users - especially natural attack spammers. Still somewhat trivial to avoid the penalties if you can't have two standard actions in one round.
    Shield Shot (<G>): Did your GM realize the power of the Tower Shield with an Equipment sphere talent? Well, here. Now they can't use it. Also can't use shield sphere unless they swap out another, and it takes a standard action to undo these effects, which is just a win. This isn't the most widely applicable talent, so your mileage will certainly vary.
    Trip Shot (G): Tripping is great in melee, and stops movement when used in an AoO. Tripping in range gives them bonus AC against you. But it does generally force them to lose their move action to get up, probably provoking from your friends who get bonuses and you've already attacked by the time they are prone.

    Tactile Shot (F): Don't ask me how, but when combined with Trap Technician, you can pick locks and disable traps with an arrow. From 500 feet away. At no penalty! Oh, you also get some very, very, very light utility.
    Trap Technician (F): Yeah, What Tactile Shot said.

    Piercing Shot (B-G): Have a chance to hit additional creatures in a line behind your target, at a -4 penalty for each one, and must hit consecutively to continue on to the next. Lines are the most finicky of AoE, and this grants massive penalties. But it is at least it's an option.
    Bouncing Shot (<B-G>): Assuming that your group regularly uses battle maps, and the enemy regularly take advantage of cover, this is effectively a +2 to hit...using your snipe talent slot, but still, +2 to hit. As a DM I would say that all bounces have only -2 to hit, not -2 per bounce. Because it's supposed to be cool. Especially with Steady Shot doing the same thing, but better in 98% of the use cases.

    Pinning Shot (B): Pretty much a strictly worse version version of Hindering Projectiles, and literally worse than Tangling Shot. But there is the ability to force the target to remove it, or else be unable to swing their greatsword. A player character's CMD-4 is relatively trivial (less so for a humanoid, whose sword hand you're pinning), but there is a chance of failure. Also very funny to imagine someone being pinned to the ground by a tiny metal ball.

    Weapon Shot (N-B): Exclusively useful vs things with weapons and shields. And not reliably useful at that.
    Push Shot (N-B): Outside of a bull rush build (and a DM who reads this talent as letting you apply those bonuses after the attack it's using), this is quite literally nothing.

    Shattering Shot (N): Hey! Go destroy your loot! With an arrow!
    Head Shot (N): A save or die. But only if you are already dealing half their hit points in damage, which means they are pretty much dead anyway. And I think you declare your snipe talents when you attack, not after you've rolled everything. So....
    Last edited by SangoProduction; 2021-01-21 at 01:48 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Rynjin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2016

    Default Re: Sniper Sphere (Spheres in Review)

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    Full or Partial BAB: Outside of chance to hit, there is no functional difference between partial and full BAB until several levels in.
    This is not correct, though perhaps not for an intuitive reason.

    For Spheres of Might n general, but ESPECIALLY for the Sniper Sphere, Vital Strike is a must have Feat. Your BaB here is the biggest determiner of your damage, because it allows you to get Vital Strike on curve (6 instead of 8) and to get the later versions of it on curve as well.

    I also think you overlooked at least one important Talent; Focusing Reload is your "free" ability to regain Martial Focus (it's a Move action, similar to most other options that can be repeated with little or no chance of failure, like Focusing Buzz or Focused Might).

    Retaliating Fire is, amusingly enough, even worse than you think. It's a Stance, which means it eats your Swift action every round just to maintain it.

    I think you highly undervalue Sunder attacks; Broken gear is unusable by the enemy but can be repaired with little issue when you pry it from their corpse. You're not destroying it, which is almost irreparable. That said, it's far better done as one of a series of attacks rather than using your entire turn to break a single piece of equipment; in essence I agree that Shattering Shot is bad, but not your reasoning for it.

    Sniper I think overall is a Sphere that is best as a "dip". You grab the few killer apps it has, plus the base Sphere abilities, and use other Sphere abilities to amp those base options with stuff that can boost your damage die. As a quick goofy option I was considering for my Barroom/Berserker/Brute character, a simple wooden chair has a base damage of 2d6 with some Barroom stuff, and can be thrown up to 50 feet as a normal attack with a Berserker Talent. Combined with Shikigami Style (and its offshoots), you have a weapon with a base damage die of 6d6 (available by level 5!), multiplied to 12d6 by Vital Strike at 6, using your Str for both attack and damage, plus Deadly Shot (with Great Focus), plus all that other stuff you add to your damage for an attack that can quite reasonably hit "yeet a bar stool into the boss monster's head for a save or die" level pretty quickly.
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2021-01-21 at 01:27 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SangoProduction's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Sniper Sphere (Spheres in Review)

    I don't take into account outside factors like unrelated feats when judging a sphere. Otherwise I'd be mentioning power attack and deadly aim or whatever for about 5 paragraphs every single sphere of SoM.

    Much thanks. I was wondering where I had seen Focusing Reload if it's not within Sniper sphere. But man. I do wished that it had granted you the ability to move when you reload slower than you normally could.
    Ah... I thought stances were just passive, and you just chose one. Wow....wow. Know what? I think I'll homebrew that stances are indeed just passives, though you can only have one active at once. None of these stances I've seen are worth a swift action are that good. But I'll adjust the talent's rating accordingly.
    And the it's really rather difficult to repair magic items, but "Hey! Go destroy your loot! With an arrow!" was basically just a throw away line to exaggerate that it's bad.

    And I need to update Sniper Shot, as I did mostly forget about it.
    Last edited by SangoProduction; 2021-01-21 at 01:39 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Rynjin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2016

    Default Re: Sniper Sphere (Spheres in Review)

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    I don't take into account outside factors like unrelated feats when judging a sphere. Otherwise I'd be mentioning power attack and deadly aim or whatever for about 5 paragraphs every single sphere of SoM.
    For the most part, this is a good policy.

    Vital Strike is the exception. Almost every single Sphere is designed to make Vital Strike function as a core part of any martial character's kit. It's why there are so many "special attack action" features and is why the "Attack Action" heading for "Using Spheres of Might" mentions it so explicitly.

    Attack Action
    An attack action is a type of standard action. Some combat options can modify only this specific sort of action. When taking an attack action, you can apply all appropriate options that modify an attack action. Thus, you can apply both the Boxing sphere’s counter punch and Vital Strike to the same attack, as both modify an attack action. You can apply these to any combat option that takes the place of an attack made using an attack action (such as the trip combat maneuver), though options that increase damage don’t cause attacks to deal damage if they wouldn’t otherwise do so (such as Vital Strike and trip).

    You can’t combine options that modify attack actions with standard actions that aren’t attack actions, such as Cleave.
    Spheres balancing basically assumes every character takes Vital Strike at SOME point; it's a key component of the system.

    And the it's really rather difficult to repair magic items, but "Hey! Go destroy your loot! With an arrow!" was basically just a throw away line to exaggerate that it's bad.
    Fixing broken (50% HP or lower) magic items only requires Cl = CL of item. It's fixing DESTROYED items (0 HP) that's so difficult.
    Last edited by Rynjin; 2021-01-21 at 01:49 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SangoProduction's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Sniper Sphere (Spheres in Review)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rynjin View Post
    For the most part, this is a good policy.

    Vital Strike is the exception. Almost every single Sphere is designed to make Vital Strike function as a core part of any martial character's kit. It's why there are so many "special attack action" features and is why the "Attack Action" heading for "Using Spheres of Might" mentions it so explicitly.



    Spheres balancing basically assumes every character takes Vital Strike at SOME point; it's a key component of the system.



    Fixing broken (50% HP or lower) magic items only requires Cl = CL of item. It's fixing DESTROYED items (0 HP) that's so difficult.
    Yeah. So as you say, Vital Strike is pretty much an implicit assumption, and thus not really necessary to talk about in every sphere. Sort of like Power Attack.
    And do you argue that Vital Strike being delayed from level 6 to 8 isn't a difference "until several levels in"? Guess it's vague wording. But considering the sphere doesn't change with BAB until BAB 4, one would have to infer that several is at least 4 levels.
    Last edited by SangoProduction; 2021-01-21 at 01:53 AM.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    TheTeaMustFlow's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Perfidious Albion

    Default Re: Sniper Sphere (Spheres in Review)

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    I don't take into account outside factors like unrelated feats when judging a sphere.
    In this case, you probably should - some of the spheres are very much designed to play off each other, and nowhere is this more in evidence than Sniper. Obviously, Barrage interacts well with it; less obviously, the single best [snipe] talent is actually in the Trap sphere.
    Last edited by TheTeaMustFlow; 2021-01-21 at 07:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Frost
    `This is just the beginning, Citizens! Today we have boiled a pot who's steam shall be seen across the entire galaxy. The Tea Must Flow, and it shall! The banner of the British Space Empire will be unfurled across a thousand worlds, carried forth by the citizens of Urn, and before them the Tea shall flow like a steaming brown river of shi-*cough*- shimmering moral fibre!`

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Sniper Sphere (Spheres in Review)

    I talked to the developer of sniper, and he okayed the following technically-not-raw due to poor word selection combo. Apply bounding shot and piercing shot to a single deadly shot to pseudo full attack, but with your deadly shot stuff. You can also use that to bounce an arrow around a room and hit the same person multiple times.

    I just wrapped up a giant slayer campaign where I was playing a cross bow wielding sphere inquisitor. Between enhancement and alchemical coating, studied target, and bane, I was easily doing 180+ damage on a deadly shot. Damage that I never missed one because even a nat 1 had enough bonuses to hit a giant. Then it would piercing and bounce and hit them again.

    Of course, I had retrained out of barrage because I was doing 450+ per round around level 10. But honestly, that’s stupidly excessive.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SangoProduction's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Sniper Sphere (Spheres in Review)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsuneymg View Post
    I talked to the developer of sniper, and he okayed the following technically-not-raw due to poor word selection combo. Apply bounding shot and piercing shot to a single deadly shot to pseudo full attack, but with your deadly shot stuff. You can also use that to bounce an arrow around a room and hit the same person multiple times.

    I just wrapped up a giant slayer campaign where I was playing a cross bow wielding sphere inquisitor. Between enhancement and alchemical coating, studied target, and bane, I was easily doing 180+ damage on a deadly shot. Damage that I never missed one because even a nat 1 had enough bonuses to hit a giant. Then it would piercing and bounce and hit them again.

    Of course, I had retrained out of barrage because I was doing 450+ per round around level 10. But honestly, that’s stupidly excessive.
    That is a very interesting little interaction which I didn't think of, which gives bounding shot an actual unique use case. Granted a -6 on the second attack, and -12 on the third is relatively massive. But it's still a unique interaction.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Sniper Sphere (Spheres in Review)

    Quote Originally Posted by SangoProduction View Post
    That is a very interesting little interaction which I didn't think of, which gives bounding shot an actual unique use case. Granted a -6 on the second attack, and -12 on the third is relatively massive. But it's still a unique interaction.
    It’s like a full attack with a slightly higher penalty, but extra deadly shot damage.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •