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  1. - Top - End - #61
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    Can't cast spells because you're not proficient in plate. Done.
    Its just a few levels but eventually I get to plate proficiency.

  2. - Top - End - #62
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    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
    Its just a few levels but eventually I get to plate proficiency.
    No blade song
    Weak cantrip
    Weak song of victory
    Why bother then?

  3. - Top - End - #63
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunatism View Post
    No blade song
    Weak cantrip
    Weak song of victory
    Why bother then?
    Everything pays off Tier-4.

  4. - Top - End - #64
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunatism View Post
    Why bother then?
    That s my reaction when someone dunps Int on an EK too.

  5. - Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
    Everything pays off Tier-4.
    Seems unconvincing
    Elaborate please

  6. - Top - End - #66
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunatism View Post
    Seems unconvincing
    Elaborate please
    In the levels you would normally associate as Levels 17 - 20th. Capische?

  7. - Top - End - #67
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
    In the levels you would normally associate as Levels 17 - 20th. Capische?
    9th level spell don't cover the weakness of low int, heavy armor bladesinger. You may refer to the reasons i stated above.

  8. - Top - End - #68
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunatism View Post
    9th level spell don't cover the weakness of low int, heavy armor bladesinger. You may refer to the reasons i stated above.
    My W/L record states otherwise.

  9. - Top - End - #69
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    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
    My W/L record states otherwise.
    Would you kindly disclose the actual numbers? That helps convincing people, which you are not currently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    That s my reaction when someone dunps Int on an EK too.
    low int EK can be a viable build as the most commonly used spells (shield and absorb element) don't need int to be effective.

    But I do not like that build very much though for greatly limiting spell choices.
    Last edited by Lunatism; 2021-01-25 at 04:22 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    If you are talking about W/L, specially when you state 'from tier 4", you are not talking about D&D, but some other game that uses some of D&D's rules.
    Last edited by diplomancer; 2021-01-25 at 04:22 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #71
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by diplomancer View Post
    If you are talking about W/L, specially when you state 'from tier 4", you are not talking about D&D, but some other game that uses some of D&D's rules.
    No. This is legal D&D.

  12. - Top - End - #72
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    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
    No. This is legal D&D.
    I would sincerely remind that you are making the thread derails, can we talk about EK again? Not W/L or PvP.

  13. - Top - End - #73
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunatism View Post
    I would sincerely remind that you are making the thread derails, can we talk about EK again? Not W/L or PvP.
    Sure. Let us talk about how high str plate wearing bladesingers outperform eldritch knights.

  14. - Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
    I think Strength-based, Platemail-wearing, Low Int Bladesinger is just simply better than EK. Please prove me wrong on this.
    By going STR over both DEX and INT Youíre giving up most if not all all benefits of being a bladesinger:
    - Song doesnt work in medium or heavy armor
    - Song adds INT to AC
    - Extra Attack Cantrips use INT to hit (unless youíre GFB/BB), as do all your spell attacks and DC
    - Song of Victory adds INT to weapon damage
    - INT determines how many spells you have prepared

    EK on the other hand loses very little from dropping INT, as it isnt required for much more than spell attack/DC which as noted is not the EKs strong suit despite itís evocation school access. Honestly if you want to play a low Int Wizard there are better alternatives like Necromancer, Conjurer or Transmuter

  15. - Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
    Sure. Let us talk about how high str plate wearing bladesingers outperform eldritch knights.
    You are welcomed, do you think of any convincing standpoints yet? I didn't receive any yet.

    and how you compensate the loss of bladesong?

  16. - Top - End - #76
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    By going STR over both DEX and INT Youíre giving up most if not all all benefits of being a bladesinger:
    - Song doesnt work in medium or heavy armor
    - Song adds INT to AC
    - Extra Attack Cantrips use INT to hit (unless youíre GFB/BB), as do all your spell attacks and DC
    - Song of Victory adds INT to weapon damage
    - INT determines how many spells you have prepared

    EK on the other hand loses very little from dropping INT, as it isnt required for much more than spell attack/DC which as noted is not the EKs strong suit despite itís evocation school access. Honestly if you want to play a low Int Wizard there are better alternatives like Necromancer, Conjurer or Transmuter
    17th+ Level Bladesinger always outperforms 17th+ Level Ek, correct?

  17. - Top - End - #77
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
    17th+ Level Bladesinger always outperforms 17th+ Level Ek, correct?
    Are you talking about weapon attack output? Surely not then as 2 attacks can't beat 4.

  18. - Top - End - #78
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    I'd recommend re-reading Bladesong (for your convenience, full quote below).

    If you wear armor heavier than light or use a shield, you get none of the benefits of Bladesong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bladesong
    Starting at 2nd level, you can invoke a secret elven magic called the Bladesong, provided you aren't wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield. It graces you with supernatural speed, agility, and focus.

    You can use a bonus action to start the Bladesong, which lasts for 1 minute. It ends early if you are incapacitated, if you don medium or heavy armor or a shield, or if you use two hands to make an attack with a weapon. You can also dismiss Bladesong at any time you choose (no action required).

    While your bladesong is active, you gain the following benefits:

    • You gain a bonus to your AC equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1).
    • Your walking speed increases by 10 feet.
    • You have advantage on Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks.
    • You gain a bonus to any Constitution saving throws you make to maintain concentration on a spell. The bonus equals your Intelligence modifier (minimum of +1).


    You can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses of it when you finish a long rest.
    Emphasis mine

    Are you still sure that Bladesinger in heavy armor outperforms an Eldritch Knight?
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  19. - Top - End - #79
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
    17th+ Level Bladesinger always outperforms 17th+ Level Ek, correct?
    So how did you get to level 17?

  20. - Top - End - #80
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    Chimera

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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    So how did you get to level 17?
    {Scrubbed}
    Last edited by Pirate ninja; 2021-01-25 at 07:09 AM.

  21. - Top - End - #81
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    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
    {Scrub the post, scrub the quote}
    {Scrubbed}

    Also, any defense for the inferior attack performance of plate armor bladesinger?
    Last edited by Pirate ninja; 2021-01-25 at 07:16 AM.

  22. - Top - End - #82
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    I mean... An high level BS in heavy armor will outperform an EK in casting... And that's it. Assuming you've spent two ASIs to get the armor. But that's just because the former is a wizard, there is nothing the subclass really does.

    Funnily enough, EKs who are more fight-y get more features to support casting then a BS does.

    Speaking of supporting casting, how good Eldritch Smite is really on the Eldritch Knight chassis? I can't help but feel like while good it's kinda 'wasted' on a class that uses mostly Abjuration spells without DCs (since the Evocation ones fall behind in damage rapidly).
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  23. - Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    I mean... An high level BS in heavy armor will outperform an EK in casting... And that's it. Assuming you've spent two ASIs to get the armor. But that's just because the former is a wizard, there is nothing the subclass really does.

    Funnily enough, EKs who are more fight-y get more features to support casting then a BS does.
    I think the limited schools of spell and insufficient spell slots justify all the casting-support features EK gets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    Speaking of supporting casting, how good Eldritch Smite is really on the Eldritch Knight chassis? I can't help but feel like while good it's kinda 'wasted' on a class that uses mostly Abjuration spells without DCs (since the Evocation ones fall behind in damage rapidly).
    The burst damage might be too high for a fighter who can strike 4 times a turn. As you knock a target phrone with smite amd gain advantage in all following attacks.

    But as a gish aubclass, I do like to have a feature similar to eldritch smite.

  24. - Top - End - #84
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunatism View Post
    I think the limited schools of spell and insufficient spell slots justify all the casting-support features EK gets.



    The burst damage might be too high for a fighter who can strike 4 times a turn. As you knock a target phrone with smite amd gain advantage in all following attacks.

    But as a gish aubclass, I do like to have a feature similar to eldritch smite.
    I'm an idiot and meant Eldritch Strike, not Smite, sorry xD

    Eh, I'm not sure. Like others have said, they get features that support casting that they don't really make good use of (extensively, at least).
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  25. - Top - End - #85
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    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Valmark View Post
    I'm an idiot and meant Eldritch Strike, not Smite, sorry xD

    Eh, I'm not sure. Like others have said, they get features that support casting that they don't really make good use of (extensively, at least).
    I think eldritch strike help medium int EK to land crowd control spells, like Hold Person and Banishment, despite their not so high spell DC.

    Max int EK would find it useful too.

  26. - Top - End - #86
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunatism View Post
    I think eldritch strike help medium int EK to land crowd control spells, like Hold Person and Banishment, despite their not so high spell DC.

    Max int EK would find it useful too.
    It's decent if you have some good save-or-X spells and can get to AOE people, but EK doesn't really get amazing ones.
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  27. - Top - End - #87
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    It's decent if you have some good save-or-X spells and can get to AOE people, but EK doesn't really get amazing ones.
    Talking about AOE part...

    Spreading out your attacks to apply Eldritch Strike to cast Fireball with disadvantage saving throw at level 13 or later?

    Don't think it is a good way to boost AOE damage.

  28. - Top - End - #88
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunatism View Post
    Talking about AOE part...

    Spreading out your attacks to apply Eldritch Strike to cast Fireball with disadvantage saving throw at level 13 or later?

    Don't think it is a good way to boost AOE damage.
    Your best bet is like Web or Hypnotic Pattern or some such. As you get spells so late, your damage spells will be helplessly behind.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2021-01-25 at 11:11 AM.
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  29. - Top - End - #89
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
    I think Strength-based, Platemail-wearing, Low Int Bladesinger is just simply better than EK. Please prove me wrong on this.
    First I think this is pertinent to the conversation as I've personally just decided to opt for strength Bladesinger with a Fighter dip over EK. I wouldn't suggest low Int for either character. Secondary or Tertiary stat would be best.

    So if we are comparing Bladesinger/ Fighter 1-3 vs EK in late tier 2, early tier 3

    The BS/ Fighter gets
    1) way better (powerful and versatile) spellcasting. This includes better spells to support combat.
    2) better muticlass attack until the EK hits level 11 and then they are arguably similar in impact (3 attacks vs 1 + Blade Cantrip)

    The EK gets
    1) more HP
    2) more ASIs/ feats

    My conclusion is that for late tier 2 and early tier 3 it's not even close. The STRadesinger is better. It is more interesting and has way more options to support both combat and other areas of the game.
    However by late tier 3 and certainly tier 4 the EK is one of the best fighters while the STRadesinger isn't a strong spellcaster or melee combatant.

  30. - Top - End - #90
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    Default Re: How do you feel about the Eldritch Knight?

    Quote Originally Posted by J.C. View Post
    Sure. Let us talk about how high str plate wearing bladesingers outperform eldritch knights.
    I recommend, when you make such proposals, you immediately, in the same post, follow up by actually adding content related to convincing your readers of your view in this discussion. Lay out your case. Or at least bring up interesting points. Asking others to discuss a topic which you've merely named isn't very constructive.

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