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2021-01-24, 12:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-01-24, 12:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
This. Also, notice the white line on the wall. The portal is being used at that very moment. Notice how the line that marks where the portal is turns white whenever someone crosses it.
In short: Blackwing crosses the portal back to the door on panel 20. Not before that.The Hundred Second
Creator of the first iteration of The Stick Awards
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2021-01-24, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
So, Team Evil presumably doesn't know about the teleportation trap...
Spoiler: Start of Darkness referenceToo bad someone killed the party's rogue, Redcloak.
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2021-01-24, 02:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Ah. You are correct. Thank you.
Looking carefully at the 3e spell wording, True Seeing confers no specific ability to Detect Magic. It will show things that are altered by magic or hidden by magic. In fact, it is not even a benefit for finding most traps, magical or mundane.
So the answer is "I am interpreting it wrong", as you said.
Haley has a sky high Spot and Search, and found the "trap". Redcloak is relying on True Seeing, but did not bother with Detect Magic, and sees nothing. Detect Magic would presumably reveal something is there that might be worth further investigation. Redcloak has been using True Seeing, and, nobody having been blown up at the foyer in the last 100+ tunnels, saw no reason to alter his tactics.I owe Peelee 5 Quatloos. But I am going double or nothing that Durkon will be casting 8th level spells at the big finale.
I bet Goblin_Priest 5 quatloos that Xykon does not know RC has the phylactery at this point in the tale (#1139).
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of Belkar...so close!
Using my Bardic skills I see the fate of goblinkind!
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2021-01-24, 02:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
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2021-01-24, 04:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2014
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- A Michigan Far, Far Away
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
I'm still trying to figure out what this "art error" is that everyone is talking about.
Other than the floor in panel 18 being a little darker than it should be, I'm not seeing a problem. The floor in panel 1 is also darker than it should be, so this is an inconsistency or an issue of light or shading, not an error.
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2021-01-24, 04:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2020
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- massachusetts
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2021-01-24, 04:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2018
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2021-01-24, 04:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Nazzo, the 102nd; 2021-01-24 at 04:16 PM.
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2021-01-24, 04:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2013
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
I think it's much simpler. The floor color is the key. That means:
- Team Xykon is actually just walking into yet another monster tunnel.
- The Order is being teleported to Somewhere Else, likely a tunnel leading to the portal.
- The teleportation activates conditionally, likely at least the condition of alignment, which explains why Blackwing, being an unaligned animal doesn't trigger the condition but the Order does. Probably with a timer to accomodate company with an alternative alignment.
This means that the gate tunnel isn't accidentally accessible to any random adventurer with Detect Magic and Dispel Magic. If the effects are dispelled, the tunnel remains where it is, and the gate too, likely hidden somewhere underground. The teleportation effect is just a convenient service access.
The illusion is just an unconditional one that crosswires the sensory data when observing through the portal.
It also only requires a *single* teleport/illusion combo, instead of one for every tunnel, hundreds or thousands.
The rat head is effectively part of Haley's equipment, which is why it triggers the condition, and why the scorch mark is on departure and destination sides of the teleportation.
The only thing unexplained is why the convenient maintenance entrance doesn't work both ways, but we'll see that later I suppose.And once again, Probability proves itself willing to sneak into a back alley and service Drama as would a copper-piece harlot.
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2021-01-24, 05:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2019
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2021-01-24, 05:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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2021-01-24, 05:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
The "trap" might be a two-step thing. One, relatively easy to spot and disable by a rogue, doesn't actually do very much. The second, much harder to spot, acts on the basis of the state of the first one.
I don't think that that's what's happening, but that's how it could work.
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2021-01-24, 07:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Roy got a WONNNH!! when he went toward the dead end, so if we stipulate that teleportation is happening, it is happening. Ergo, the dead end tunnel is the tunnel where Team Evil is, Roy is correct.
Now, question B: does "bypassing" the trap leave you in a tunnel in the "real" dungeon, or does it also teleport you, with less effects, into the "real" (yes, I'm assuming, shell game and all) dungeon. The answer, in my humble opinion, is does walking down the tunnel yield a bunch of branch points where you can join all the other doors?
That's my idea, 5 Quatloos.
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2021-01-24, 08:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2007
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Regarding the issue of the scorch mark in team Evil / Blackwing's side:
Just before the mini explosion that suspended the trap (1220, p8-9), the rat-skull was for a moment half way through the trap. Then the magical effect suspended, which was the cause for the mini explosion and the scorch mark. Therefore, since at this critical moment the rat-skull was half way through the team Evil side, then the explosion mark should be there too!
Meaning that this mini explosion happened at: 1. at the side of the entrance 2. at the team Evil side 3. the OotS side. Yes. Three sides. Magic! Or rather, suspension of active teleportation magic.
Then there is the fact that after this moment (p10), the rat-skull half that was on the team Evil side, exists now in OotS side. This shows us that suspending the spell while someone is half way through, will not in fact cut them in half.
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2021-01-24, 08:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Another random thought -- does sound transmission play into this at all? As well as seeing into the door section from the hidden corridor, the OOtS are hearing what's going on there. But Xykon isn't hearing the OOtS. If the hypothesis that corridor #1 goes "Door Section => Divination => Teleport to Corridor 2 => Hidden (OOtS) Section" is true, and that the Order is seeing/hearing Team Evil because they're in the same physical corridor, wouldn't all of their own talking carry past the divination wall and let Xykon hear them?
Maybe the teleport traps convey the sound waves as well? But I'm having trouble figuring out a configuration where the two teleport traps behave the same way that is still consistent with the evidence. I think there's something else going on to get the sound working the way it is. Maybe it's just a good thing that Roy is only using telepathy in the dead end, and not actually speaking?~Xel
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2021-01-24, 08:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
The Hundred Second
Creator of the first iteration of The Stick Awards
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2021-01-24, 08:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-01-24, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
All of this from the floor color? That can be easily explained by a perpetually-active portal; everything that could affect the coloration of the floor would affect the floor on both sides of the portal. As the portal intercepts anything that would go behind it, the ground in the tunnel behind it would be untouched. Note again that the entry floor color is more muted than the color of the floor by the Order; dustier, maybe, or more worn-down. Hardly proof of Team Evil's tunnel being connected directly to the entrance.
This means that the gate tunnel isn't accidentally accessible to any random adventurer with Detect Magic and Dispel Magic. If the effects are dispelled, the tunnel remains where it is, and the gate too, likely hidden somewhere underground. The teleportation effect is just a convenient service access.
The illusion is just an unconditional one that crosswires the sensory data when observing through the portal.
It also only requires a *single* teleport/illusion combo, instead of one for every tunnel, hundreds or thousands.Last edited by Ironsmith; 2021-01-24 at 08:26 PM.
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2021-01-24, 08:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2007
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
What should we make of the fact that Blackwing isn't black in panel 18, but rather a dark gray? This plus the scorch mark seem like very deliberate choices, which make it more likely that there's another layer of complexity than that it's simply an art error (or in this case, two art errors).
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2021-01-24, 08:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2018
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
That’s not it
Let’s say A is in the hollow with door and B is the dungeon with monsters you get teleported to if you cross the line and trigger the trap
The trap is permanent and teleports you to the other tunnel from that which you enter
Haley temporarily disabled it letting the Order into the other side of A
It then resets
So Team Evil get teleported from front of A to B
Roy and his sword went partially through the reactivated trap so end up in the front of B which is a dead end
You can only go from A to A or B to B by disabling the trap
Possibly there’s some special item or password that lets any guardians or maintainers pass freely.'Utúlie'n aurë! Aiya Eldalië ar Atanatári, utúlie'n aurë! “The day has come! Behold, people of the Eldar and Fathers of Men, the day has come!" And all those who heard his great voice echo in the hills answered, crying:'Auta i lómë!" The night is passing!"
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2021-01-24, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
I'd say that is a deliberate art choice by Rich to picture things in the background. Look at Haley in the two last panels of 1219, for example.
The Hundred Second
Creator of the first iteration of The Stick Awards
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2021-01-24, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Another thought occurs to me: is it possible that the portal trap is meant to catch out particularly clever intruders? The new portal leads out into a dead end, which means there's no guarantee the Order can find its way out. If something happens to their trap-finding rogue (like, say, she gets disintegrated by an epic monster), then no matter how well the Order fares in the rest of the dungeon, they're kinda screwed. Heck, can they even get air in there?
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2021-01-24, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
All this talk about locating traps. Why does it have to be a trap at all? Putting the rat skull down there could be Activating a Device, not deactivating a trap. Like punching in a code to open a door. Except this “door” is a portal which is activated
Further it could be that the portal disappears once the 20 seconds wears off. So that’s why team evil couldn’t see it even with detect magic, the magic is turned off when they pass it.
Where the order now is, they have a new portal that is activated at all times, hence why they can detect itLast edited by JessmanCA; 2021-01-24 at 09:14 PM.
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2021-01-24, 09:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-01-24, 10:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Can they, though? There are spells that prevent teleportation (Dimensional Lock, Dimensional Anchor, Forbiddance, etc.), and it's not inconceivable that Sereni could have had a version rigged that included an exception for her portal. Plus, we've already heard that the stonework here is multidimensional or whatever (and that's why Xykon can't phase through it), so there's always a chance it naturally foils teleportation or planar travel as well.
Last edited by Ironsmith; 2021-01-24 at 10:07 PM.
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2021-01-24, 10:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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2021-01-25, 12:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2012
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
The OotS think Xykon's group was the one teleported.
But considering the other side of the trap for the OotS is now a dead end, it seems more likely that THEY were the ones teleported. Not sure that's possible, to have a trap that only transports you if you disable or bypass it, but it'd make way more sense. Then each door can teleport to the same singular tunnel and if you fall for the trap...you proceed into the dungeon like normal and find nothing but monsters and such.
Still not sure how the hell Xykon and Redcloak never noticed this. But assuming that OotS is now on the path to the seal, then Xykon's not, and never will be until they figure this trick out. Which I'm guessing will occur due to the OotS causing them to find it... (even in a way like, "well, they just VANISHED, what could've happened? hmm...")
Good on Blackwing getting out of there ASAP w/o waiting to be told to do so.
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2021-01-25, 02:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Blackwing is better off somewhere up high flying around. If they find him sitting out there they might recognize him from previous fights and capture him, they might make him talk
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2021-01-25, 03:06 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2021
Re: OOTS #1223 - The Discussion Thread
Then the dead end must get as much traffic as the entrance door - that's possible but it seems more likely that the dead end is part of the same tunnel as Xykon et al are in, with the same colored rock, and the entrance immediately in front of the door has been deliberately colored the same by Serini to avoid making the teleporter obvious (but no need to recolor the area oots are in which is past the teleporter).