The Royal Artificery Society - OOC

[WindStruck]

Me reading ooc first: oh god what happened!?


Um also. With this new gestalt level, we get more skill points? But the max rank we can have is still 6 right?


One more thing. How much did the magical gel stuff that Shandara used to enchant the pipe cost? And would she be reimbursed for that as well, in addition to her stipend?

[DeTess]

Um also. With this new gestalt level, we get more skill points? But the max rank we can have is still 6 right?

Yes, that's correct.

One more thing. How much did the magical gel stuff that Shandara used to enchant the pipe cost? And would she be reimbursed for that as well, in addition to her stipend?

Yes, she'd be reimbursed for the test-tube, and if she takes the contract to make the rest, the pay-out for that contract is on top of the material costs.

[Prehysterical]

Right, right. Sorry, DeTess, playing games in multiple systems and the rules get jumbled sometimes. Bolten's Expert class gives him 6+ skill points, so I'm not complaining (with background skills, to boot.)

Guess this means Bolten needs to buy a spellbook... or would it be fine if Bolten made his own spellbook as basically a catalogue of his future designs? (He'd still pay full price; just for fluff.)

[DeTess]

Guess this means Bolten needs to buy a spellbook... or would it be fine if Bolten made his own spellbook as basically a catalogue of his future designs? (He'd still pay full price; just for fluff.)

That's completely fine.

[WindStruck]

Okay. Since the initial tests worked (with some unfortunate consequences), would the Escribano Workshop be interested in any of the other designs for further refinement to their plans/needs?

As a reminder: wards could be set up to redirect the search, which can modify the area to a cone, square, semi-circle, or something else more irregular, and this also will typically allow for slightly more distance in the other directions.

The other option is simply searching one or more pre-defined areas, rather than centered around the pipe.


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Oh yeah. So I assume Shandara will need to enchant something much bigger than a copper pipe 20 cm wide?

How big are these pipes and what is their material?

[DeTess]

Okay. Since the initial tests worked (with some unfortunate consequences), would the Escribano Workshop be interested in any of the other designs for further refinement to their plans/needs?

As a reminder: wards could be set up to redirect the search, which can modify the area to a cone, square, semi-circle, or something else more irregular, and this also will typically allow for slightly more distance in the other directions.

The other option is simply searching one or more pre-defined areas, rather than centered around the pipe.

The one with the wards they aren't really interested in because it'd mean losing a decent portion of the gains in reduced construction your first design has (still far better than having to lay the pipes all the way, and if you'd presented it first they might have gone with that). The one with the pre-defined area would be ideal, but it's also the most tricky to implement. It's not beyond you, but it's easier to make a mistake with and would take longer to create per pipe because each pipe would need to have a separate area defined.

In other words, your first design is good enough. The one with pre-defined areas would be the perfect solution, but you'd be looking at closer to 8 days of work, and larger risk of mistakes.

-----

Oh yeah. So I assume Shandara will need to enchant something much bigger than a copper pipe 20 cm wide?

How big are these pipes and what is their material?

The bigger pipes vary in length and size a bit, but the largest ones are 4 meters long and about 80 cm in diameter, while the smallest would be about 3 meters long and 50cm in diameter. They'll be made from cast iron. You can make use of their workshop for the enchanting, as they'd have the tools needed to easily handle the larger pipes.

[Sønderjye]

I'm not a fan of that one, specifically not of it's weird science feature. I might be misreading it, but it seems really, really powerful, especially in e6, where it gains spell levels as quickly as any full caster. It gets a lot of spell casts per day (more than a sorcerer, significantly more if you can reliably make that use magic device check), and gets only slightly less 'spells known' than a sorcerer would. The ability to combine casts is also really powerful, and if such a combined device only takes up a single device slot then it makes the class significantly more versatile than sorcerer while also being able to cast far more spells in a day.

That's fine, I am on the edge between that one and the eberronpf anyway so I'll just run with the latter. I agree that in a normal game it would be really powerful though with how few spells we seem to use on a daily basis and in particular how few of them that are useful to repeatedly cast it felt like it wouldn't be excessively powerful here.

[Elbeyon]

I'll try to get a longer post in next time!

Custom Item request: I'm trying to buff up my skills to tackle that bank. Would it be possible to craft a custom Cracked Magenta Prism with a higher skill bonus (using the item creation guidelines)? And, might it be possible to combine that item with itself to allow it to boost multiple different skills.

[DeTess]

@Sonderjye, could you roll me a knowledge arcana for your research? Is there anything in particular you hope to come across, or want to look into?

@windstruck, if you're going for your original design, no more rolls are needed. IF you try to implement the 'rigidly defined area's' variant I want another spellcraft check.

I'll try to get a longer post in next time!

Custom Item request: I'm trying to buff up my skills to tackle that bank. Would it be possible to craft a custom Cracked Magenta Prism with a higher skill bonus (using the item creation guidelines)? And, might it be possible to combine that item with itself to allow it to boost multiple different skills.

You could definitely try to make something like this as a personal project, but it'll be more involved than a 'standard' magic item. I suggest you'd do some in-game research and think a bit about what you want it to do exactly. Are you looking for an item that gives your character a thief's skill-set, or that'd allow you to use effects from the item to make up for area's in which you lack skill (such as a magical auto-lockpicker or similar).

Also, could you roll me a gather information to see what you can learn about the bank and the attempts other people have made?

[Sønderjye]

@Elbeyon, just wanted to check in - are you fine with closing the contract scene or are there something you'd like out of it before we do that?

@DeTess,

Just to make the IC request for more info on the mind and memory a little more concrete here is a design that Z is considering making and he wants to be sure that he's on the right track.

Spoiler: Memory Extractor

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The memory extractor is a small vial. On the bottom there is a psionic crystal which have been treated with similar alchemical reagents as the memory related ingredients in Elixir of Amnesia. When the opening of the vial is placed against the forehead of a user and the user activates the device, a ephemereral mist starts flowing from the forehead and into the vial in which remains as a turning smokey liquid. In this way the device allows a user to extract memory of one event or all memories related to a specific piece of information into the device. The liquid in the vial, referred to as liquid memory, contains the memory and can be ingested. Once ingested a user lives through the memory in real time. While reliving a memory through drinking liquid memory a user is unaware of their surroundings. They can exit a memory they currently are experiencing at any time by succeeding a DC 12 Will save or by taking a single point of damage. If a user exits before a liquid memory is fully experienced the remainder of the memory is lost. A memory extractor can be used 3/day but there is no limit to the number of liquid memories a creature can consume save for the time required to live through the memories.

[Sønderjye]

Just saw the message above. Casting Investigative Mind to be able to roll twice and get the best result.

Here is two knowledge(arcane): (1d20+15)[21] (1d20+15)[34]. Best roll is 34

What he's basically looking into is how to make the above device. So that includes if someone have done somethin like it before and if so what the results were, what the potential dangers might be and how to avoid them, and what the mechanics are for how magic/psionics interface with the mind.

[DeTess]

@sonderjye:

There's been quite a wealth of research in memory loss, as well as the intentional removal (and undoing of that removal) of memories. Memory transfer has been studied a lot less, and the studies that have been done are mostly theoretical. This is because past experiments with memory transfer have proven to be quite risky, though most of those experiments occurred a long time ago, and with the power of hindsight and the theories you've read you can see quite clearly why they caused people to become quite insane (dumping an entire's life's worth of memories in someone's head isn't a good idea, for example).

There's a variety of psionic crystals that are known to be able to hold and preserve memories and impressions, but the main challenge would lie in fully extracting the memory in one piece, rather than just getting a collection of disjointed impressions. You read a number of theories regarding how this could be done, from specific ways to cut the crystals, to suggestions for the user to reach a (potentially alchemically enhanced) meditative state to properly transfer the memory. Some of the research in memory removal might be of use as well, as these describe particular methods, both magical and alchemical to target a specific memory with a minimum of 'collateral damage' (I'll let you fill in the exact ways here yourself, or I could spend some time this weekend further working it out).

[Elbeyon]

@Elbeyon, just wanted to check in - are you fine with closing the contract scene or are there something you'd like out of it before we do that?

Yeah! I just wanted to reply. I'm all good stopping there. The next payment will include the full amount. The two elixir costs ate pretty much everything.

You could definitely try to make something like this as a personal project, but it'll be more involved than a 'standard' magic item. I suggest you'd do some in-game research and think a bit about what you want it to do exactly. Are you looking for an item that gives your character a thief's skill-set, or that'd allow you to use effects from the item to make up for area's in which you lack skill (such as a magical auto-lockpicker or similar).

Also, could you roll me a gather information to see what you can learn about the bank and the attempts other people have made?

That sounds like a worthwhile project! Ioun Stones have minor mental links to their wielder and are visually affected by strong emotions. The prism normally changes focus on different ability scores as does the cracked version to some extent. Perhaps, the various colors in the prism relate to amplifying parts of a person's traits/skills and the colors can change with each new day. Drawing parallels on looking at things in a new light or everyday is a new day.

Rolling gather information!

Spoiler: Gather Info

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Diplomacy, Influential Questioning
(1d20+15)[16]
(1d20+15)[30]
(1d20+15)[24]

[Sønderjye]

@DeTess,
Thanks! In that case here is 3 designs for memory extraction, let me know how they work.

Spoiler: Designs

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Design 1: Previously described Memory Extractor.
Design 2: As Design 1 but there is no vial and the memory is stored directly into the crystal.
Design A: Really an addition to either of the prior extraction methods. The target is fed an alchemical concoction that helps them hone in and strengthen the particular memory, thus making extracting the full memory easier.
Design B: Instead of A. Uses a secondary crystal to connect to the psychic impression that is fundementally connected to the memory and draws information from that to fill out the memory.
Design C: Combines A and B

Edit and relatedly: Is knowledge and skills memories, or does knowledge and skills count as a different class of mental objects than memories?

@Elbeyon, cool good. Just wanted to be sure (:

[DeTess]

@Elbeyon, yeah you manage to gather quite a bit of information about the bank, including maps of the general structure and decent information on a lot of the defenses. A lot of groups of students have already mad their attempts, though as far as you've heard none have succeeded as of yet. There are four main obstacles:

1. Getting inside. There are only two official entrances into the bank. One is the front entrance, which is lightly guarded but leads into a large foyer with no cover, making it hard to advance in further without being seen. The second is the freight entrance which is used for receiving goods. there is more cover there, but also a far heavier guard presence. you've heard that several groups have sued the sewer's to sneak in, and at least one group came in by climbing up to a third story window. There are no suitable windows on the lower two floors though.
2. Getting to the vaults. The hallways leading to the vaults are closed off by several locked doors, and are littered with all kinds of traps, such as pressure plates under tiles and magical runes that trigger when seen. These can all be bypassed and turned off, but you'd need someone both nimble enough to avoid the mundane traps and someone with significant skill with disarming magical traps.
3. The vaults themselves are locked with a new kind of lock, so a lot of the conventional lockpicking wisdom can go out of the window. However, from what you've heard from a group that got that far, the locks themselves aren't impassable if you've got someone that is good with locks. Their difficulty in picking lie in their odd design,but that design is not particularly more secure than other good lock designs, just different and requiring either specially designed, or hastily improvised tools.
4. The vaults are also secured with some kind of device or enchantment that automatically sends an alert to either nearby guards, or some kind of guard post when the vault is opened. This has resulted in the two groups that got that far being caught 'red-handed'. The exact details of this defense are only being guessed at, as no one has managed to get past it so far.

@Sonderjye, knowledge can be contained in memories, but skills also relies on muscle memory. I would allow you to make a normally trained-only skill-check untrained after witnessing a relevant memory, and maybe gain a small circumstance bonus (+1 or 2) if you're essentially just replicating exactly what you've seen.

I'll comment a bit about the various designs later, but I really need to get some sleep now first

@everyone, work has been taking a bit much out of me this week. This might mean I won't post much until Saturday, or maybe things'll be fine again tomorrow, we'll see.

[Elbeyon]

Nice! That's some great info! Zeal approaches step 1!

[DeTess]

@Sonderjye:

Regarding your designs:
1: could work, but you're going to have to think a bit about the exact medium you'll be capturing the memory in. The right alchemical concoction or enchantment on the crystal can tease the memory loose, but holding it in something other than a psionic crystals is tricky, though it would make absorbing the memory later a lot easier.
2: Storing the memory directly in the crystal is a lot easier It's a natural property of them, after all), but getting it out again in the clarity you desire is a bit more involved than just swallowing the liquid containing the memory as ib 1, probably requiring some kind of specific tool or spell.
A: should improve the quality of the memory in both design 1 and 2, and should help with getting to things the original owner of the memory might not have noticed quite as actively (faces of random passersby, a just barely overheard conversation they considered irrelevant, that sort of thing).
B: could really help with improving the quality, but linking the experiences of two people like this does come with a risk of backlash to the recipient of the memory (will save or bad stuff happening, such as temporary (or not so temporary in extreme cases) insanity). On the other hand, this should get you the complete picture, which would allow one to notice things that the 'owner' of the memory might have completely missed. Without something like this you won't get anything the owner of the memory only registered subconsciously.
C: Combining A and B would be redundant for recent memories, but if you're trying to get at something old, or even something the owner repressed, then it might be necessary to beak out both.

@elbeyon, roll me a to-hit with your grappling crossbow, and a climb. There is a pair of guards patrolling the bank's exterior, but you've got a window of opportunity to get in unseen, provided you're quick enough (just in case it needed to be said, you can't take 10 on either roll).

[Elbeyon]

Not the best rolls, but Zeal brought the tools and did the prep to make this easier!

Edit Woops. I flipped my grapple and climb modifiers. Grapple is +4. Climb is +5

[DeTess]

Not the best rolls, but Zeal brought the tools and did the prep to make this easier!

Edit Woops. I flipped my grapple and climb modifiers. Grapple is +4. Climb is +5

You've (barely) bypassed the first obstacle. Could you roll me another stealth as you make your way down, as well as whatever rolls might be appropriate for bypassing the first locked door to get into the trapped hallways leading to the vaults.

[Elbeyon]

Nice! The best stories involve danger. Zeal just wanted to enhance the story.

I'm glad Zeal did the prep! I'm guessing she would have failed both her grapple and her climb if she used a grapple hook instead of a grapple crossbow and used a normal rope instead of a knotted one.

[WindStruck]

I liked Zeal's little internal monologue. It's like a noir parody.

The odds were stacked against me.
I had only a fool's hope of succeeding,
but I was the biggest fool of them all.

Countless had gone before me and failed to succeed,
but this was different. I had a plan...
and I was still trying to formulate it.

[Elbeyon]

I liked Zeal's little internal monologue. It's like a noir parody.

The odds were stacked against me.
I had only a fool's hope of succeeding,
but I was the biggest fool of them all.

Countless had gone before me and failed to succeed,
but this was different. I had a plan...
and I was still trying to formulate it.

Thanks! I like your monologue too. I hope my post wasn't too silly. Zeal can be a little goofy but she is very serious currently! She is giving the old heist her best attempt. She is also currently on a load of drugs. I mean alchemical creations.

I'm loving the locations, the people, and world building going on! It's fun to keep notes of everything! The world is really getting filled out and expanding with us! That's one of the reason I love a city focused game. The world gets developed so much more! Everyone's posts have been amazing. I love the characterization going on for the player characters. They feel very real.

[DeTess]

@Elbeyon, I'll let you do the narrating for the bank adventure.

you make your down to the ground floor. Your periscope comes in handy more than once to give you forewarning of guards patrolling. The biggest challenge is on the ground floor. The door you need to open is located behind the counters where the bank's tellers will be working, and these look out on the central foyer, which has four guards posted. They mostly keep an eye on the door outside though, and you're just about quick enough in getting the locked door open and slipping in the hallway beyond.

The hallway itself is about 7 feet wide, and a good sixty feet long, ending up in a switchback of stairs that you know leads to another hallway going back the other way. The ground is covered by tiles about 1.5 feet on a side,w which all look identical. You can tell from minor discrepancies in the Heights of the tiles closest to you that pretty much all of them have some kind of mechanism beneath them. Maybe not all of them are actually traps, but every tile definitely could be a trap.

Let's see how you proceed :P

[WindStruck]

Oh, the Deathless Kings sounds so very interesting! It's almost like a little homebrew adventure you could run for someone else.

Anyway, let's see what else Shandara may have known. I mean, I guess she has been doing extra studying and reading in her spare time.

For extra lore on Deathless Kings:
knowledge religion: (1d20+9)[16]
knowledge history: (1d20+9)[29]


And then perhaps, some immediately knowledge Shandara may know about...

Magic and rituals that could potentially keep someone "alive" (undead) and keep raising them:
knowledge arcana: (1d20+16)[31]
knowledge religion: (1d20+9)[15]

[WindStruck]

Oh, I guess for the sake of more things I could say to the captain, I'll try one more roll.

I'm vaguely thinking of an enchantment that could be activated that dispels all other magical effects on the target.

knowledge arcana: (1d20+16)[21]

Of course, I guess it also depends on the nature of the magic keeping the Deathless King alive, but what I am thinking of is sundering the connection between his soul, undead body, and whatever else is keeping him here.

Let's say for example, you must say the activation word of the sword, and then you must also strike the "killing blow" on the next hit with the weapon. For extra oomph, we could say the effect is even more powerful because it eats up/destroys the sword's magic as well. So basically, only get one shot.

...oh. Also, the captain specifically mentioned a ritual to end the deathless king for good. Simply knowing that ritual and getting to study it is... honestly, probably the simplest thing. Basically: replicate the ritual, stick it on the sword, done?

[DeTess]

Oh, the Deathless Kings sounds so very interesting! It's almost like a little homebrew adventure you could run for someone else.

Yeah, If I where to run this setting for a more 'traditional' campaign the players would be members of the ranger's guild, and this would be the kind of stuff I'd throw at them near end-game.

Spoiler: Knowledge(religion) on the Deathless Kings

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The bodies of the Deathless Kings where treated for preservation after their deaths. There is some discussion about whether the force that animates them is their original soul, or some other malevolent entity that ahs taken voer their boy, but what is known id that they tend to be very intelligent and ambitious, and they have a drive that matches (for as far as historians can confirm, at least) the intent of the original king (or, in one case, queen) whose body they inhabit. Scholars on matters of the undead generally find the distinction to be moot.

Spoiler: Knowledge(history) on the Deathless Kings

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The Deathless Kings seem to be the monarchs of a long lost civilization that inhabited the Desert region making up the Southern border of the empire. murals found in their tombs show that the land they used to inhabit was once far more fertile, but some calamity struck that changed things. Historians can't quite agree on what this calamity was. The murals depicting the event show it in a very stylized way, though it seems like there was some kind of war between the people that lived their and their gods, or at least some god-like entities. This conflict blighted the land and caused the collapse of that civilization.

In more recent history, the remains of the Monarchs of these long lost civilizations have slowly start 'waking up' in their tombs as the Deathless Kings. This has always led to a large-scale war between the empire and the Deathless King, and though the empire has been victorious every time, the cost has always been steep. There have been five such conflicts over the past 200 years, the first two being against the same Deathless King. He apparently managed to come back from having his entire body cremated and the ash scattered. The second time the empire committed an entire order of Paladins and warrior-priests to destroying the deathless king, and though the massive amount of positive energy they unleashed did kill it for good, many of them burned out their powers in the process, never being able to channel their god's power again.

The second Deathless King to fight the empire was either overconfident, or lacked tactical acumen. It's undead army was smaller than those of the first, and more easily destroyed, and the archmages and high priests accompanying that host took their time properly destroying the Deathless King. Their ritual lasted about 48 hours all told and involved some of the empire's most powerful spellcasters. However, they devised a ritual that since has been used on the remaining two Deathless kings that attacked which can be accomplished with a far smaller expenditure of power, Though it still requires two powerful (read, capable of casting 3rd level spells) mages cooperating in a ritual that takes about 10 minutes to complete, at least one of whom has to be a priest of some sort for channeling positive energy.

You don't remember the exact details of the ritual, but you do know that it's recorded in the archives, so finding more details should be fairly easy later.

Spoiler: On becoming (and staying) undead

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You know quite a few rituals related to creating normal undead, in part because, while regulated, doing so is not forbidden. These bodies are closer to golems than people though, with only a small spark of nbegative energy powering the bodies, rather than a proper soul.

Becoming an (intelligent) undead generally requires some serious twisting of the soul, causing it to remain attached to the body even after the body has died, and preventing it from passing on. There are a variety of ways this can happen, both 'naturally' and on purpose. It generally requires either an enchanted object (which could eb the body itself) or a strong emotion to anchor the soul to the mortal realm. Creating intelligent undead is an area of research that is discouraged within the empire, but study of those that had been created by rogue necromancer show that it is possible to create enchantments to chain a soul to a body permanently, though these generally require a massive amount of power to lay down (the kind of power that either requires a lot of powerful mages cooperating, a priceless power source, or human sacrifice).

Creating undead that are self-reviving is presumed to be even more difficult, but very few examples are known, the Deathless Kings being the most prominent example. It is generally assumed that the soul is infused with enough power that they can either steal a new body, or rebuild their old body from nothing over time, even after having their old body destroyed. Souls outside of bodies do tend to quickly fade unless they've got something anchoring them to the mortal realm. This is often either a strong emotion (in the case of most ghosts and similar), a specially crafted container for the soul (known to not be the case with the Deathless Kings. At least, no such relic has ever been recovered) or an incredibly strong will.

The idea for the dispel effect certainly has merit, and could disable lesser undead. However, for something like a Deathless King you know that you'd need more than that. Dropping their protections and wards would merely make them vulnerable, not properly dead on its own.

[WindStruck]

Oh, by the way. I've been bad and procrastinating on building the gestalt level onto my character sheet.

I just need to pick out my 1st level wizard spells now, but I remember something and should ask. Do we also get background skills for this gestalt level?

...or not? Either way makes sense, feels like a lot to give us.

[DeTess]

I just need to pick out my 1st level wizard spells now, but I remember something and should ask. Do we also get background skills for this gestalt level?

...or not? Either way makes sense, feels like a lot to give us.

You only get background skills once per level, so no.

[Sønderjye]

Ah, and here I hoped for some kind of vague misty memory thing like in HP. Oh well.

I am still a little uncertain about the specific mechanics of memories. I've made a post full of assumptions. Do let me know where I guessed wrong. It ended up being way longer than I thought it would be but it's late now and I need to hit the sheets. I'll try to find time to read it and try to make it shorter tomorrow.

Deathless are pretty cool. I hope I can get to talk to one of them to see if we can recover the secret to immortality without the associated mental urge to kill everything.

[Prehysterical]

You only get background skills once per level, so no.

Oh... That also means we don't gain a hit die or any BAB, right?

Oh boy, better hope that one of those guys isn't named Settra the Imperishable.

Edit: Speaking of the captain's comment, what is the Empire's relationship with metallic dragons? I have an idea in mind for how Bolten overcomes the spell level limitations of making clockwork constructs, sooooooo... no ulterior motives at all he lied.