Monk hunting a wizard.

[Adumbration]

Now, inspired by the 'Wizard kill monk'- thread, answer this:

The wizard has committed something uspeakably evil (I will not speak of it) and the wizard community of the city goes after him. The 20th level wizard has a few moments of warning, and teleports away from the town seconds before.

The wizards give up, the bastard is out of their jurisdiction. They plunder his tower and break it into bricks. But it isn't over yet! The brotherhood that lives outside the city is pissed with him too! He burned their only outhouse! So they send their 20th level monk after him.

The wizard has never met this monk. He knows that there is likely to be someone after him, but does not know his/her class.

The monk will give up in two weeks. He has the equipment based on his wealth, that is dependent on his level. He also has once per day access to a wizard that will help him by scrying for money.

The wizard is worse off. He has only the clothes he was wearing, 2 material components, and some few hundred platinum coins. He used his last teleport spell for the day, and is in wilderness few kilometers away from the city.

Who wins?

EDIT:
All right. Let's up the odds a little, to turn this a bit more interesting.

The wizard has to stay within certain radius (say, fifty miles) from the city for two weeks, to receive and deliver the last informations from his spies. (Let's say his crime was spying). He recovers his hidden stash of five additional material components, plus three spellbooks and several trail rations and some clothes, including 1 ring he stashed for the rainy day.

He still has no idea who is after him.

[Snadgeros]

Given all of the stuff the monk has access to, I give it to the monk easily. The wizard only has two components, severely limiting his selection of spells, and it's highly unlikely he'd prepare TWO forcecages necessary to stop the monk. Other spells such as fireballs and anything with a save has a good chance of not working on the monk's evasion, saves, and SR30. Also, with some ranks in hide and move silently, the monk can get the jump on the wizard (who he scryed earlier to figure out where he is) and grapple him. Once the wizard's pinned, he's screwed as the monk will win most, if not all of the grapple checks and just continue inflicting unarmed damage.

Should the wizard see the monk first though, odds are he'd try a forcecage, only to be thwarted by abundant step. As I said earlier, many of his other spells have a good chance of failure. The only hope for the wizard here is if he knows that it's a monk after him, otherwise odds are unlikely that he'll have proper monk-stopping spells prepared. He needs spells with no saves, no evasion, and can get past SR30, all with only two material components.

[mostlyharmful]

should the wizard have a back-up spellbook stashed in a hidden location, with a back-up component pouch, or the feats spell mastery and eshew materials, or the spells planeshift and/or greater teleport, i'd bet on the wizard. Just because hideing and running is easier than finding and catching.

[Dausuul]

If the wizard can obtain a spellbook with teleport and mind blank, he wins. Otherwise... it depends on what spells he had prepped when he had to run for it.

[Kurald Galain]

Well, that depends on how severely you're crippling the wizard.

Obviously, a wizard who can't cast spells is going to get caught. You say he doesn't have any teleport spells memorized any more - but does he have anything else memorized? Does he have Spell Mastery? Or any of those Archmage's SLAs? Or spells tattooed on his body? What about Eschew Materials (given that nobody I've ever heard of actually keeps track of materials, and just writes "component pouch" on their sheet).

Several of these measures are quite common to wizards - and note that the wizard will have an intelligence in the high twenties, which means he would likely have a backup plan of some sort. Why on earth would he teleport with only his clothes, otherwise? Perhaps those clothes are a Robe of the Archmagi, or incorporate a Bag of Holding, or whatnot.

Given that there are numerous spells that don't have material components, and/or have components that are easily available in the wild, my bet is on the wizard. But it's really a stupid question because no sensible person would ever behave like this, and wizards have enough int to be considered sensible.

[Adumbration]

All right. Let's up the odds a little, to turn this a bit more interesting.

The wizard has to stay within certain radius (say, fifty miles) from the city for two weeks, to receive and deliver the last informations from his spies. (Let's say his crime was spying). He recovers his hidden stash of five additional material components, plus three spellbooks and several trail rations and some clothes, including 1 ring he stashed for the rainy day.

He still has no idea who is after him.

[horseboy]

Hmm, well, it all comes down to can the mage get to the next town faster than the monk. Wanted to turn it around a bit? If the mage can get to the next town, he drops a couple of the plat, gets a new spell book and a material component pouch, you're really only managed to lower his expensive components after that.
Not to mention "the clothes on his back" would be a robe of something or another, boots of this-that-or-the-other and possibly a cloak of something that does cut back on slots used.
Yeah, I'd still give it to the mage. Do a little damage to the monk and drop him with Power Word Kill.

[edit: Woops, didn't see your last post, Defiantly giving it to the wizard with that one.]

[Adumbration]

By the way, why am I the only one who's thinking of Quivering Palm or whatever it's name was? Is there a reason he wouldn't use it?

[Snadgeros]

Quivering palm's not a bad idea, but the fundamental problem with it is if you miss, you're screwed, and they can still make a save if it does hit. Stunning fist would actually be more practical, and would give the monk time to inflict more damage on the wizard each round he's stunned. Also, I don't imagine it would be difficult to take away his components and spellbooks and stuff while he's stunned (being that he can't do anything). Just stun him, grab his stuff, and burn it/throw it away/toss it off a clif/etc.

[horseboy]

Probably because he can't reach him?

[horseboy]

Also, I don't imagine it would be difficult to take away his components and spellbooks and stuff while he's stunned (being that he can't do anything). Just stun him, grab his stuff, and burn it/throw it away/toss it off a clif/etc.

I see that brought up a lot but how does that help you now? So you wasted a couple of actions taking his back pack away and throwing it hella far. All that means is after the wizard is done killing you you've posthumously pissed him off while he goes looking for his stuff.

[Snadgeros]

Probably because he can't reach him?

Why couldn't he? He can scry him and use his hide and move silently skill, then charge in from up to 180 feet away, 360 if he runs, and 450 if he has the run feat. Let's not forget the ever-useful abundant step or ability to go ethereal.

I see that brought up a lot but how does that help you now? So you wasted a couple of actions taking his back pack away and throwing it hella far. All that means is after the wizard is done killing you you've posthumously pissed him off while he goes looking for his stuff.

How's he going to kill me if I just took away all of his components?

[NEO|Phyte]

How's he going to kill me if I just took away all of his components?

Any number of spells that don't NEED components?

[horseboy]

Why couldn't he? He can scry him and use his hide and move silently skill, then charge in from up to 180 feet away, 360 if he runs, and 450 if he has the run feat. Let's not forget the ever-useful abundant step or ability to go ethereal.

Cause he's flying; it's not really him, but an illusion; or not even in the same plane any more.

[Emperor Demonking]

The monk sneaks up on the wizard, uses his quivering strike attack.
Wis equals at least 17+3+2 so a six wis modifier, so the wizard must make a 26, at least, fort save.
If not the monk will probably be able to use stunning blow, if he wins initiative.

[mostlyharmful]

The monk sneaks up on the wizard, uses his quivering strike attack.
Wis equals at least 17+3+2 so a six wis modifier, so the wizard must make a 26, at least, fort save.
If not the monk will probably be able to use stunning blow, if he wins initiative.

and the monk sneaks into a MMM how? and given that they do what sort of wiz20 doesn't have a contingency up? and a clone stashed somewhere?

If the wiz gets a spellbook then he wins.

[Kaelik]

Why couldn't he? He can scry him and use his hide and move silently skill, then charge in from up to 180 feet away, 360 if he runs, and 450 if he has the run feat. Let's not forget the ever-useful abundant step or ability to go ethereal.

Because he is flying. Because he can Immediate action teleport? Because he has immunity to stunning fist and quivering palm as a matter of course?

How's he going to kill me if I just took away all of his components?

Spells without material components. Archmage SLAs. Eschew Materials. Not that it matters because you can never hit him.


The real reason the Wizard instawins this challenge. MMM. One cast, wait X long. Gets information from spys. Leaves to go do something else.

And that's ignoring Mindblank=Scry can go cry.

[Kurald Galain]

plus three spellbooks

If the wizard has his spellbooks, then this debate boils down to the same thing we debate every week. The strongest core class beats the weakest core class, hands down.

[elliott20]

Before the wizard found his stash? The monk maybe, depending upon what kind of other resources the wizard might have at his disposal. After the wizard found his stash? The wizard EASILY.

[Telonius]

Because he is flying. Because he can Immediate action teleport? Because he has immunity to stunning fist and quivering palm as a matter of course?



Spells without material components. Archmage SLAs. Eschew Materials. Not that it matters because you can never hit him.


The real reason the Wizard instawins this challenge. MMM. One cast, wait X long. Gets information from spys. Leaves to go do something else.

And that's ignoring Mindblank=Scry can go cry.

I'd add another spell that adds insult to injury: Private Sanctum. It does have three material components, so that might be an issue. Not only does it prevent the wizard himself from being scried on, it prevents the whole Mansion from being scried on. So, no hints that he's in an extradimensional space.

[mostlyharmful]

I'd add another spell that adds insult to injury: Private Sanctum. It does have three material components, so that might be an issue. Not only does it prevent the wizard himself from being scried on, it prevents the whole Mansion from being scried on. So, no hints that he's in an extradimensional space.

At which point every other class beyound monk, including even wizards, goes and cries.

[elliott20]

yeah, pretty much the moment you allow the wizard to have some kind of resources to cast even ONE spell of the whole MMM nature, it's over.

[Snadgeros]

Yeah you just defeated the entire challenge by giving him that stash. No class, not just monk, but not even another wizard, would be able to catch him then. Wizards have low HP, so they have plenty "get the hell out of dodge" spells. That's just not even fair. We need a new stash with a lot less stuff. Make the wizard stay on this plane. He can make himself unscryable, but he can't go hide in another plane or dimension.

[Adumbration]

Well, first of all, good luck contacting your spies from the UNDETECTABLE INVISIBLE MANSION OF MAGIC!

Jeah, nice try, fellas.

[Telonius]

The Wizard can still cast Sending from the mansion, and direct his spies to the entrance.

EDIT: Though if the Monk is really smart, he could start tracking the spies, but it's not certain at all if either the monk or the wizards will think of that.

[horseboy]

Yeah you just defeated the entire challenge by giving him that stash. No class, not just monk, but not even another wizard, would be able to catch him then. Wizards have low HP, so they have plenty "get the hell out of dodge" spells. That's just not even fair. We need a new stash with a lot less stuff. Make the wizard stay on this plane. He can make himself unscryable, but he can't go hide in another plane or dimension.

You'd have to strip him naked with less than 5 gold on him, otherwise if he's got 20 gold he's back in business.

[mostlyharmful]

Yeah you just defeated the entire challenge by giving him that stash. No class, not just monk, but not even another wizard, would be able to catch him then. Wizards have low HP, so they have plenty "get the hell out of dodge" spells. That's just not even fair. We need a new stash with a lot less stuff. Make the wizard stay on this plane. He can make himself unscryable, but he can't go hide in another plane or dimension.

Yup. the challenge is indeed completely writen off by giving the wizard his basic nesecities, somewhere in the region of 5 to 10 % of his WBL.

[Doresain]

i say make him a necromancer rather than your typical wizard...necromancers dont need to hide from everybody, they just sit in the middle of their undead legions and wait in their luxurious stitched-flesh couch

[Azerian Kelimon]

Y'know, one prismatic sphere and a few prismatic sprays finish this challenge easily. Let's not talk about solid fogs, webs, cloudkills, etc. Most of those ask for no material comp, so the monk is a big disadvantage.

[iceman]

Purchase a pair of anti-magic shackles for the wizard and if you can squeeze it, a pair of anti-magic bracelets for yourself (Neither function if not worn, worth roughly 132,000gp a pop). Have friendly wizard scry every day until he locates bad wizard (MMM only lasts for two hours per caster level, thats 40 hours, less than two days out of the two weeks he has to avoid being caught) Go out and locate wizard using stealthy measures. Run up and beat the snot out of the wizard (your anti magic bracelets pretty much neuter him from using any offensive spells, and if within 5 feet all of his spells). Place anti-magic shackles on the wizard and drag his sorry butt back to town (avoiding those pesky random encounters on the way of course). Have Wizards guild reward you by creating your very own Permancied MMM. Using your left over gold, fill with concubines, tasty food, and good booze. Live drunkily ever after. THE END.