Favorite double 9s gishes?

[Elves]

Looking for ideas...what are your favorite gish builds with double casting, preferably double 9s? The simplest obviously being mystic theurge + divine power.

[Anthrowhale]

The Arcane Disciple Cleric variant in Dragon #311 is solid all the way through. Heavy armor, one wizard spell/level as a divine spell, and access to all the cleric spell list, including divine power. Take a dip in Sacred Exorcist or Spelldancer for persistomancy. Furthermore, there are feats (zen archery, intuitive attack) which can drive attacks off of wisdom. You don't have the raw spells/day of a traditional double-9 build, but the spell access is there.

Something similar can be done with an Archivist, but that tends to require more DM leniency.

[Doctor Despair]

Haven't had the chance to play with it yet, but I recently brewed this guy: Effective Wizard 17/Archivist 11

Spoiler: Horseman

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Elf or Half-Elf Build: Wizard 17, Druid 11, Companion 18, Familiar 12

Level	Class	Feats	Class Features	Notes
1	Martial Wilderness Companion Wizard	Extend Spell, Improved Initiative	-	Spoiler: Notes Show Trades out familiar for 1/2 wizard levels to animal companion; trades out scribe scroll for fighter feat. Effective Wizard Level: 1 Effective Archivist Level: 0 Effective Companion Level: 0.5 Effective Familiar Level: 0
2	Martial Wilderness Companion Wizard	-	Gain an Animal Companion; thematically, it may as well be a light horse.	Spoiler: Notes Show Effective Wizard Level: 2 Effective Archivist Level: 0 Effective Companion Level: 1 Effective Familiar Level: 0
3	Archivist	Sanctum Spell, Scribe Scroll	Dark Knowledge (tactics) 3/day	Spoiler: Notes Show Effective Wizard Level: 2 Effective Archivist Level: 1 Effective Companion Level: 1 Effective Familiar Level: 0
4	Geomancer	-	Drift 1, spell versatility 0	Spoiler: Notes Show We use Sanctum Spell to qualify for being able to cast arcane/divine 2nds. We would take levels in Mystic Theurge instead, but we wouldn't be able to meet the skill requirements for Wildrunner, as it requires 8 ranks in survival (which would never be a class skill for us). We would take a level of Mystic Theurge and a level of Ruathar, but then we would not meet the BAB requirements to go into Arcane Hierophant on time. Effective Wizard Level: 3 Effective Archivist Level: 1 Effective Companion Level: 1 Effective Familiar Level: 0
5	Geomancer	Iron Will	Drift 1, ley lines +1, spell versatility 1	Spoiler: Notes Show We purchase Iron Will for 3000gp via the Otyugh Hole or the closest setting equivalent. Effective Wizard Level: 4 Effective Archivist Level: 1 Effective Companion Level: 1 Effective Familiar Level: 0
6	Incantatrix	Endurance, Persistent Spell	Focused Study	Spoiler: Notes Show Effective Wizard Level: 5 Effective Archivist Level: 1 Effective Companion Level: 1 Effective Familiar Level: 0
7	Incantatrix	-	Cooperative Metamagic	Spoiler: Notes Show Effective Wizard Level: 6 Effective Archivist Level: 1 Effective Companion Level: 1 Effective Familiar Level: 0
8	Incantatrix	-	Metamagic Effect	Spoiler: Notes Show Effective Wizard Level: 7 Effective Archivist Level: 1 Effective Companion Level: 1 Effective Familiar Level: 0
9	Wildrunner	Natural Bond	Trackless Step, Fast Movement	Spoiler: Notes Show Effective Wizard Level: 7 Effective Archivist Level: 1 Effective Companion Level: 4 Effective Familiar Level: 0
10	Arcane Hierophant	-	Companion Familiar, Ignore ASF	Spoiler: Notes Show Effective Wizard Level: 8 Effective Archivist Level: 2 Effective Companion Level: 5 Effective Familiar Level: 3
11	Arcane Hierophant	-	-	Spoiler: Notes Show Effective Wizard Level: 9 Effective Archivist Level: 3 Effective Companion Level: 6 Effective Familiar Level: 4
12	Arcane Hierophant	Eschew Materials	-	Spoiler: Notes Show Effective Wizard Level:10 Effective Archivist Level: 4 Effective Companion Level: 7 Effective Familiar Level: 5
13	Arcane Hierophant	-	Channel animal 2/day	Spoiler: Notes Show We've delayed access to When Two Become One by two levels, but we entered while losing only two levels of wizard casting instead of four. This means we still get access to 9ths pre-epic. Effective Wizard Level: 11 Effective Archivist Level: 5 Effective Companion Level: 8 Effective Familiar Level: 6
14	Beastmaster	-	Animal companion, wild empathy	Spoiler: Notes Show We use one of our horse's bonus feats to qualify for having the Skill Focus: Handle Animal prerequisite. While not necessary, it seems like a decent trade-off to advance our animal companion, as we still get casting access to 9ths with casting as of a level 17 wizard. Effective Wizard Level: 11 Effective Archivist Level: 5 Effective Companion Level: 12 Effective Familiar Level: 6
15	Arcane Hierophant	Free - Player's Preference	-	Spoiler: Notes Show Effective Wizard Level: 12 Effective Archivist Level: 6 Effective Companion Level: 13 Effective Familiar Level: 7
16	Arcane Hierophant	-	Channel Plant 1/day	Spoiler: Notes Show Effective Wizard Level: 13 Effective Archivist Level: 7 Effective Companion Level: 14 Effective Familiar Level: 8
17	Arcane Hierophant	-	-	Spoiler: Notes Show Effective Wizard Level: 14 Effective Archivist Level: 8 Effective Companion Level: 15 Effective Familiar Level: 9
18	Arcane Hierophant	Free - Player's Preference	Channel Animal 4/day	Spoiler: Notes Show Effective Wizard Level: 15 Effective Archivist Level: 9 Effective Companion Level: 16 Effective Familiar Level: 10
19	Arcane Hierophant	-	-	Spoiler: Notes Show Effective Wizard Level: 16 Effective Archivist Level: 10 Effective Companion Level: 17 Effective Familiar Level: 11
20	Arcane Hierophant	-	Channel Plant 2/day	Spoiler: Notes Show Effective Wizard Level: 17 Effective Archivist Level: 11 Effective Companion Level: 18 Effective Familiar Level: 12

Spoiler: Sample Heavy Horse Stats ECL 1-20

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Master ECL	HD	Feats (cumulative)	Familiar Bonuses (cumulative)	Companion Bonuses (cumulative)
2-8	3	Endurance, Run	-	Bonus Tricks +1, Link, Share Spells
9	5	Endurance, Run	-	Natural Armor +2, Str/Dex +1, Attribute +1, Bonus Tricks +2, Link, Share Spells, Evasion
10	5	Endurance, Run, Bonusx1	Int = 7, Natural Armor +2, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells	Natural Armor +2, Str/Dex +1, Attribute +1, Bonus Tricks +2, Link, Share Spells, Evasion
11	7	Endurance, Run, Bonusx1	Int = 7, Natural Armor +2, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells	Natural Armor +4, Str/Dex +2, Attribute +1, Bonus Tricks +3, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion
12-13	7	Endurance, Run, Bonusx1	Int = 8, Natural Armor +3, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master	Natural Armor +4, Str/Dex +2, Attribute +1, Bonus Tricks +3, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion
14	11	Endurance, Run, Bonusx2	Int = 8, Natural Armor +3, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master	Natural Armor +8, Str/Dex +4, Attribute +2, Bonus Tricks +5, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack
15-16	11	Endurance, Run, Bonusx2	Int = 9, Natural Armor +4, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master, Speak with Animals of Its Kind	Natural Armor +8, Str/Dex +4, Attribute +2, Bonus Tricks +5, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack
17-18	13	Endurance, Run, Bonusx3	Int = 10, Natural Armor +5, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master, Speak with Animals of Its Kind	Natural Armor +10, Str/Dex +5, Attribute +3, Bonus Tricks +6, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack, Improved Evasion
19	13	Endurance, Run, Bonusx3	Int = 11, Natural Armor +6, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master, Speak with Animals of Its Kind, Spell Resistance 16	Natural Armor +10, Str/Dex +5, Attribute +3, Bonus Tricks +6, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack, Improved Evasion
20	15	Endurance, Run, Bonusx4	Int = 11, Natural Armor +6, Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Master, Speak with Animals of Its Kind, Spell Resistance 17	Natural Armor +12, Str/Dex +6, Attribute +3, Bonus Tricks +7, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Devotion, Multiattack, Improved Evasion

It gets stronger if your DM lets you use a Valenar Warhorse

Edit: I should clarify: you use Incantatrix to apply Persistent Spell to When Two Become One on your Familiar Companion.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Probably a Cleric/Ardent/Psychic Theurge, you need Ardent + PrCs 3 plus Practiced Manifester to get 9th level powers at Psychic Theurge 10. You'll get 7 levels of Cleric + PrCs for Cleric 17 casting at 20th. Take the Rebuke Dragons ACF and dip Sacred Exorcist for two turning pools to power DMM: Persist.

[Crake]

7 levels of chameleon and sufficient feat shufflage can get you dual 9s. You'll need a non-chameleon source of CL though to qualify for extra spell and extra slot, I recommend a level of eidetic wizard for an eidetic spellbook. At that point then, you have 12 levels to throw around however you like for the martial side.

[Rebel7284]

What level of cheese are you looking for?

High Cheese:
- Hellbred Savage Bard 1/Ur Priest 3/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 10/ X 5 abusing alternate spell source and Lyconthropy
Do Beholder Mage instead of Sublime Chord for extra fancy high cheese.
- Supernatural Transformation [Psionics] + Ardent

Medium Cheese:
- Psionic Gishes on a Spell to Power Erutide base work really well since you want to manifest the same buffs every combat. Do "regular Psion, but can learn powers from STP Erutide" for high cheese.
- Beguiler/Rainbow Servant with Text over table can gish real well too.
- Druid/Bard/Green Whisperer/Sublime Chord/etc. wildshape gish

Low Cheese:
- Sha'ir

[MaxiDuRaritry]

At high levels, I like using a psion X / PrC Y with a convert-spell-to-power erudite as a minion, who has psychic chirurgery as a power known. Have him teach you all of his powers, arcane-spells-as-powers, and divine-spells-as-arcane-spells-as-powers (such as through Southern Magician, wyrm wizard, or the Child of Eberron draconic archetype).

At lower levels, I like purchasing the "spellcasting services" of such a character to add powers and spells-as-powers to my repertoire.

It takes more resources and hoops than a StP erudite has, build-wise, but you aren't limited by the erudite's unique powers per day.

Note that all of them are technically psionic powers, but you're potentially pulling from psionic, arcane, and divine pools (including psion, psywar, lurk, psyrogue, wizard, sorcerer, bard, cleric, druid, and more). It technically doesn't count for two opposing reasons -- they're all psionic powers (so you don't actually get arcanes or divines), but at the same time, there're 9s from way more than just two different classes.

[Gusmo]

Do you have a sweet spot in mind for when it should come online? If you can somehow fit all the pieces together, wizard5/incantatrix4/mindbender1/ur-priest2/theurge8 could have an absurd amount of persisted spells and buffs, plus mindsight for added utility. Something like druid3/wizard3/theurge4/arcane hierophant10, or druid3/wiz1/theurge6/arcane hierophant 1 if shenanigans are in play. There's a feat called companion spellbound that allows share spells to still work at 30 feet away. Shapechange all by itself can make you absurdly powerful, so sharing it with your juiced up companion familiar allows for some interesting possibilities.

[Jervis]

- Hellbred Savage Bard 1/Ur Priest 3/Sublime Chord 1/Fochlucan Lyrist 10/ X 5 abusing alternate spell source and Lyconthropy
Do Beholder Mage instead of Sublime Chord for extra fancy high cheese.

How do you get druidic? Is it hellbred past life cheese?

[Rebel7284]

How do you get druidic? Is it hellbred past life cheese?

Exactly. Hellbred explicitly know all languages they knew in their past life. Chances are at least some were evil druids.

[Gruftzwerg]

Since double 9 gish already asks for high cheese, why not go full cheese?

- Changeling race
- get Assume Supernatural Ability (Beholder: Antimagic Cone)
- buy a cast of Polymorph any Object (Beholder) spell as service before leveling up to dip the 1st lvl of "Beholder Mage"
- dip the 1st lvl of Ur-Priest
- add 9 lvls of Mystic Theurge
- leaves 9 lvls for other classes to push nonmagical stuff (or invocations if you want to add warlock/DFA)

[Elves]

Do you have a sweet spot in mind for when it should come online? If you can somehow fit all the pieces together, wizard5/incantatrix4/mindbender1/ur-priest2/theurge8 could have an absurd amount of persisted spells and buffs.

Wizard 1/x8/mindbender 1/ur priest 1/theurge 9 is a great build for a game that starts at level 10+. It gives you room to either dip a dead level class or get rebuke from urpriest 2.

Could also slip factotum 8 right into that empty slot. 6/9 casting instead of 9/9 but 5 extra spells in your opening round each combat (with 4x FOI) is a hell of a trick. In the end though the martial-leaning options are weaker. The strongest gish is a fullcaster who buffs up.

Any ideas for cool gish-like tactics that aren't standard buffzilla?

[Gruftzwerg]

Any ideas for cool gish-like tactics that aren't standard buffzilla?

I assume you aren't asking for double nines here. Clawlock and Glaivelock are non-standard gishes. See my signature for optimized builds for each.

[Elves]

Still preferably theurge. Either nonstandard gimmicks for a fullcaster theurge, or theurge builds with CL loss where losing out on 9/9 is plausibly justified by what you get instead (like the factotum example).

[Anthrowhale]

Surge of Fortune + Sense Weakness is not a traditional buff which can be quite something on a gish.

[ezekielraiden]

I'd say my favorite is probably Druid/Wizard with Arcane Heirophant. If you can get some kind of cheesy early entry on the Wizard side, with fractional BAB, you could manage

Druid 3/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 4/Arcane Hierophant 10/MT+2.

Casts as a Druid 19/Wizard 17. Ironically, if you go with the variant Wizard that gets an animal companion, I think you still benefit from Companion Familiar, because you don't need a familiar to get the benefits. So you'd only lose out on two levels' worth of animal companion advancement, both at the very highest level, while being the equivalent of an 11th level Wizard's familiar to boot. The only major downside is that you delay getting Wild Shape until level 8, so this build really only starts working around then (or I guess level 9, when you can pick up Natural Spell).

Plus, though you're still at least partly Int/Wis MAD, there's the Academic Priest feat from Legend of the Twins to make you less MAD, perhaps focusing those Druid spells on non-save things. But really that's pretty much guaranteed unless you do Wizard/Archivist, which...seems a little silly when the Archivist can cast all the Wizard spells eventually anyway.

If Archivist didn't have 1/2 BAB, I'd say Archivist/Knight of the Raven were interesting. Perhaps some other full divine casting PrC first that you can get into quickly and that has full or at least 3/4 BAB? Being Int-based makes the 2 skill points of KotR not hurt nearly as much.

If we're allowed to talk gestalt builds, I have a certain franken-build that requires some light-to-moderate DM buy-in.

[Doctor Despair]

I'd say my favorite is probably Druid/Wizard with Arcane Heirophant. If you can get some kind of cheesy early entry on the Wizard side, with fractional BAB, you could manage

Druid 3/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 4/Arcane Hierophant 10/MT+2.

Casts as a Druid 19/Wizard 17. Ironically, if you go with the variant Wizard that gets an animal companion, I think you still benefit from Companion Familiar, because you don't need a familiar to get the benefits. So you'd only lose out on two levels' worth of animal companion advancement, both at the very highest level, while being the equivalent of an 11th level Wizard's familiar to boot. The only major downside is that you delay getting Wild Shape until level 8, so this build really only starts working around then (or I guess level 9, when you can pick up Natural Spell).

If we're allowed to talk gestalt builds, I have a certain franken-build that requires some light-to-moderate DM buy-in.

That's similar to what I'd built into my Horseman build above; a variant (in the linked thread) up there uses Druid instead of Archivist/Wildrunner, but throws in Wyrm Wizard to get access to When Two Become One. Getting access to your companion's body and feats is stronger, I think, than relying on wildshape, but you have to delay it a few levels past the build you're suggesting (iirc 11th for the Wyrm Wizard route, or 13th for the Archivist route).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

When Two Become One

That's...not a very good spell, especially compared to wild shape. It specifies a horse, and horses suck beyond early levels, even animal companions and paladin mounts.

If you could seriously template it up, or use a nightmare (which at least looks like a horse) or some other much stronger horsey variant, then you might make it work, but losing out in the massive amount of power and utility that wild shape allows still beats that option down. Although I guess if your "horse" was a spellcaster (or, more likely, manifester), that could work, but why wouldn't you just wild shape and ride your manifesting mount and let it use its powers at that point?

[Doctor Despair]

That's...not a very good spell, especially compared to wild shape. It specifies a horse, and horses suck beyond early levels, even animal companions and paladin mounts.

If you could seriously template it up, or use a nightmare (which at least looks like a horse) or some other much stronger horsey variant, then you might make it work, but losing out in the massive amount of power and utility that wild shape allows still beats that option down. Although I guess if your "horse" was a spellcaster (or, more likely, manifester), that could work, but why wouldn't you just wild shape and ride your manifesting mount and let it use its powers at that point?

Well, let's compare Persistent WTBO to Wildshape.

• Wildshape lets you gain the aquatic subtype; WTBO doesn't change your type (advantage wildshape)
• Wildshape causes you to lose your ex special attacks; WTBO does not (advantage WTBO)
• They both grant you the natural weapons/armor/movement/ex special attacks of the form, but Wildshape has greater versatility on these (advantage wildshape)
• They both let you use the physical scores of your new form (tie)
• Wildshape heals you for your hitdie on transformation; WTBO lets you add your HP to your mount's HP (advantage WTBO)
• Wildshape lets you become various sizes; WTBO is limited to the sizes of horse you can ride (advantage wildshape)

Overall, wildshape seems to be better (as there are better forms than horses), but that leaves out the most important benefit: notably, you keep to use the skill ranks and feats of your mount, so it adds a lot of versatility compared to wildshape. Your familiar companion horse gets a lot more more of those due to the bonus HD as a companion and extra intelligence score from being a familiar. You can swap out your horse for another with 24 hours' notice, too.

With regard to using it on other mounts, if you change out one half of the build for Windrider, you can specify any horse as your mount. Arguably Battle Maiden does this better, but that's going to start a RAW-debate. Those would allow you to select templated mounts, allowing for this monstrosity:

Spoiler: Rare Pokemon: Templates for our Horse

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While there is something to be said for being able to swap out our feats each day with a modicum of notice for what sort of effects we might need, we may also wish to benefit from the raw buffs templates can offer. For the purposes of our summoned mounts (animal companions, special mounts, etc), most inherited templates are out of the question. Warbeast is a possibility for any mount that doesn't become a magical beast, so briefly for druids, but the costs to continue training creatures as you swap them out for new feats and skills could become prohibitive.

Some of these options allow you to select a mount from a creature you purchase or find in the wild, however. Windriders can select any creature they find as their mount, and that opens up a world of inherited templates to consider. Some strong options are:

• Magebred (inherited)
• Dungeonbred (inherited, making a large horse medium)
• Horrid (inherited, if the base animal is a Dire Horse)
• Titanic (acquired, making a medium horse gargantuan)
• Warbeast (acquired)

Of course, the ability to find a mount with all (or any, save for Warbeast) of these qualities is heavily subject to DM fiat, but if you think your DM will fail their save against your Suggestion, then you, too, could add the spoilered stats below to your character. Of course, having this creature at your disposal is already going to break the game even without using When Two Become One, but being able to keep the body for yourself has an extra sort of appeal to it.

Spoiler: Warbeast Titanic Dungeonbred Horrid Magebred Dire Horse Statblock

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Gargantuan Animal
Alignment: Neutral Evil
Initiative: +1 (Dex); Senses: low-light vision, scent, Listen +8, and Spot +8

AC: 41 (-4 size, +35 natural); touch 10, flat-footed 41
Hit Dice: 26d8+468 (487 HP)
Fort +34, Ref +14, Will +17

Speed: 80 ft.
Space: 20 ft./20 ft.
Base Attack +19
Attack: Hoof +11 melee
Full Attack: 2 hooves and bite
Damage: Hoof 3d6+22, bite 3d8+11
Special Attacks/Actions:
Acidic Attack (Ex): A horrid animal’s primary attack deals an extra 1d6 points of acid damage per 4 HD of the horrid animal (maximum 5d6).
Increased Damage (Ex): Damage from a special attack other than poison or trample is tripled, if the attack deals hit point damage.
Trample (Ex): As a standard action during its turn each round, a titanic creature can trample Huge or smaller opponents. This attack deals points of damage equal to 3d8 + 1 1/2 times the creature's Strength bonus. A trampled opponent can attempt either an attack of opportunity at a -4 penalty or a Reflex save (DC 22 the titanic creature's Str bonus) for half damage.

Abilities: Str 55, Dex 10, Con 47, Int 2, Wis 17, Cha 11 (Additional +4 to primary physical stat, +2 to other physical stats)
Special Qualities:
Improved Natural Healing (Ex)
-4 to checks to handle this animal
Immunity to Acid (Ex)
Combative Mount (Ex)
Easy Maintenance (Ex)
Racial Bonus: Survival (tracking) +4, Saves (Poison/Disease) +2. Listen +1, Spot +1
Feats: Endurance; Run; Toughness; Improved Natural Attack; Great Fortitude; (Alertness, or Athletic, or Multiattack)
Skills: Listen +8 and Spot +8
Tricks: 8

Climate/Terrain: Any land
Organization: Solitary or herd (6-30)
Treasure/Possessions: None

As you said, the spell also gets stronger if you can find alternative mounts to use, too:

Spoiler: Hold Your Horses: Alternate Mounts

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If you don't want to play as the standard Heavy Horse I described in the build stub above, and your DM doesn't want to greenlight that templated monstrosity, don't fear; there are still plenty of RAW options for a character to consider, both as purchased/discovered steeds and as animal companions. Thanks to Thurbane for compiling a list of many of these downthread!

Light Horse: The light horse is as the heavy horse, but trades 2 strength for 10 more feet of movement. Given you're probably faster than most things anyway, the heavy horse is probably the superior option, but if speed is important to you, this is there.

Pony: Medium size makes this a more compact option for those that can't find Dungeonbred mounts.

Donkey: A slightly weaker, slower version of the donkey. Its bite is significantly more accurate than a pony's, and it has a racial bonus to balance.

Mule: A cross between the donkey and the light horse. It's as a high horse, but with two more points in strength, two more to spot and listen, three more hp, a significantly stronger attack routine, and 30 less movespeed.

Pony, War: As the pony, but with 2 more hp, an improved attack routine, and +2 to str and con.

Warhorse, Heavy: As the heavy horse, but with 11 more hp (+1HD), 1 more natural armor, a significantly improved attack routine, +2 to str and con, +1 to wis, and +1 to listen.

Warhorse, Light: As the light horse, but with 3 more hp, 1 more natural armor, a significantly improved attack routine, +1 to fort and ref saves, +2 to str and con, and +1 to wis.

The following is a list of variants on the base types of horses presented in Champions of Valor; they have slightly modified stats, but are otherwise identical:

Spoiler: Equines

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Equine, Amphail (CoV)
Equine, Calimite (CoV)
Equine, Chionthar (CoV)
Equine, Cormyrean Destrier (CoV)
Equine, Dales Pony (CoV)
Equine, Dambraii (CoV)
Equine, Hammer Pony (CoV)
Equine, Island Pony (CoV)
Equine, Kromlor (CoV)
Equine, Lhesperan (CoV)
Equine, Meth (CoV)
Equine, Nars (CoV)
Equine, Raurin (CoV)
Equine, Semphari (CoV)
Equine, Shaaran Zebra (CoV)
Equine, Shad'iar (CoV)
Equine, Sosser (CoV)
Equine, Steppe (CoV)
Equine, Tharurr (CoV)
Equine, Uglib (CoV)
Equine, Whiteshield (CoV)

Valenar Warhorse: This animal can explicitly be summoned by Tairnadal druids. If your DM will let your character be from that region, or will waive the regional requirement, this horse is strictly better than the heavy horse at all levels except for levels 12, 13, and 14, where it costs us one of our bonus feats by merit of lowering our effective druid level by 3. If your DM allows it, this is a powerful option.

Spoiler: Pros/Cons to Valenar Steeds

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Pros to Using Valenar Horses

• It increases our strength by 2, our dex and con by 3, and the horse's wis/cha by 4
• It gives us access to Combative Mount, granting a small ride bonus
• It grants us low-light vision
• It grants us Scent (very notable, both for foiling the disguises of folks we've seen before and foiling stealth for those without Darkstalker)
• It gives us an extra 40 feet of movement, which is nothing to sneeze at
• It gives us +2 to listen relative to the base heavy horse, +1 to spot, and a whopping +26 to jump!
• It SEEMS to give us what amounts to proficiency with our natural weapons, as a normal heavy horse has a -1 to their hoof attacks (despite their BAB and positive strength modifier), and the Valenar horse has a +6, as of a warhorse.

Cons of Using Valenar Horses

• It lowers our natural armor by 2. This is offset somewhat by the +3 to dex (and commensurate increase to AC). Dex is a more valuable stat than natural armor most of the time, not least of which because it also protects our body on the horse's back.
• It loses us 1 trick. We will be possessing the horse, so this is a nonfactor as far as I know.
• We miss out on improved evasion at later levels, but we gain that by merit of being a familiar, so that's fine.
• Our shared HP pool is lower by 1 HD at all levels (which isn't very crippling, but is still worth mentioning)
• We miss out on a bonus feats at certain levels due to our lower EDL; this can be offset somewhat by just dismissing the Valenar horse for those levels and using a regular horse, and switching back when doing so would not cause us to lose a feat.

Mount: Gets you a light horse or pony for 2 hours/level; helps in a pinch if you can persist it and you can't find a mount some other way.

Phantom Steed: Grabs you another mount, but with a decently high AC, 20 feet of movement per caster level, and buffs that scale with caster level (up to flight). On the plus side, animals refuse to attack you. Lasts for 1 hour/level, but persisted, as with mount, it will help in a pinch.

Horse, Dire (MM2): A powerful horse with a staggering 8HD, 60 movespeed, +6 BAB, 22 str and con, 13 dex, +8 to spot/listen, endurance, run, toughness... If you can find one, this is a decent chassis for a Windrider.

Horse, Valenar Riding (ECS): 3HD, 80 feet of movement, a sub-bar attack routine (2x hoof attacks at -2), low-light vision and scent, 14 str, 15 dex, 15 con... Notably, +24 to jump, and +4 to spot and listen. Does have endurance and run. This is a fast mount, and its jump certainly opens up a lot of mobility.

Legendary Horse (MM2): An absolute behemoth of an animal with an astounding 18HD, 29 str, 14 dex, 27 con, +9 to listen and spot, low-light vision, and spot. It has a great attack routine, too (+21 on its primary!). It is legendary, so don't count on finding one, but if you do, don't let it get away.

Brass Steed (HoB): Is this golem a horse? If it counts, this is a relatively cheap way to get immunity to magic and a number of other effects (19k gp). Its 8HD and 23 str aren't too shabby either, and it gets a long-range ray attack with a 4 round cooldown.

Clockwork Stallion (MMV): 6HD, 50 speed, 20 str, 8 dex, +13 to jump, and the option to upgrade to gain armor proficiency, DR, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Overrun, Improved Trip, or Trample.

Clockwork Pony: As the stallion above, but with 18 str, 10 dex, and +8 to jump.

Some additional options are presented in the Kingdoms of Kalamar book Dangerous Denizens: The Monsters of Tellene:

Horse, Drhokkeran Charger: 5HD, 18 str, 13 dex, 17 con, +7 spot/listen, 40 speed
Horse, Highland Dancer: 3HD, 17 str, 15 dex, 17 con, +6 spot/listen, 60 speed
Horse, Gaketan Mare: 3HD, 15 str, 13 dex, 15 con, +6 spot/listen, 60 speed
Horse, Draft: 3HD, 18 str, 13 dex, 15 con, +6 spot/listen, 50 speed
Horse, Middling: 3HD, 14 str, 13 dex, 15 con, +6 spot/listen, 55 speed
Horse, Middling War: 3HD, 16 str, 13 dex, 17 con, +7 spot/listen, 55 speed
Horse, Miniature: 1/2HD, 3 str, 18 dex, 10 con, 40 speed, tiny size

Blood Horse (Dragon 299): 4HD, 18 str, 18 dex, 17 con, +11 spot, +10 listen, +7 move silently, 40 speed, 80 fly, blindsight, multiattack, detect good at will, pounce, rake, sonic screech, blood drain... They have an explicit pricing to purchase and train them, too. Definitely a powerhouse, but of questionable use-ability, as it is Dragon material. If it is legal, you can use Alter Self on your Companion Familiar to take its shape and copy some of its qualities.

[Gruftzwerg]

That's...not a very good spell, especially compared to wild shape. It specifies a horse, and horses suck beyond early levels, even animal companions and paladin mounts.

If you could seriously template it up, or use a nightmare (which at least looks like a horse) or some other much stronger horsey variant, then you might make it work, but losing out in the massive amount of power and utility that wild shape allows still beats that option down. Although I guess if your "horse" was a spellcaster (or, more likely, manifester), that could work, but why wouldn't you just wild shape and ride your manifesting mount and let it use its powers at that point?

Have a look at the thread before complaining about the horse choices. There are a few good options like Blood horse or a Titanic horse. Further, nothing stops you to combine the spell with Wild Shape for double cheese. Add "horseshoes of flame" for the nightmarish look.

[Bphill561]

Kind of partial to

Bard 1/ Fighter 2/Bard 2/Spellsword 2/ Spelldancer 2/Divine Crusader 1/ Sublime Chord 1/ Fochlucan Lyrist 9

Requires a lot of skill points, best human with 16 Int. Also requires Sanctum spell for early qualification, although you can cheese shuffle it out later. All Charisma casting with Bard, Sorc, and one domain list. BAB of 16. Customize domain or planar domains might extend your spell list.

[Skyrender]

You can't enter spelldancer with only 3 bard levels and the first level of spellsword. You need 3rd level spells, and that only gets you 2nd level spells. See if your DM might allow you to substitute prescient sense from the divine oracle in place of evasion for prereqs, since the description of the ability specifically says it's a type of evasion. If that's allowed, you can then switch to the following instead:

bard 2/crusader 2/bard +1/divine oracle 2/abjurant champion 2/divine crusader 1/sublime chord 1/fochlucan lyrist 9

[Bphill561]

You can't enter spelldancer with only 3 bard levels and the first level of spellsword. You need 3rd level spells, and that only gets you 2nd level spells. See if your DM might allow you to substitute prescient sense from the divine oracle in place of evasion for prereqs, since the description of the ability specifically says it's a type of evasion. If that's allowed, you can then switch to the following instead:

bard 2/crusader 2/bard +1/divine oracle 2/abjurant champion 2/divine crusader 1/sublime chord 1/fochlucan lyrist 9

Also requires Sanctum spell for early qualification, although you can cheese shuffle it out later.

I am not going to rehash or argue mechanics of Sanctum Spell, Illumian Rune Word Naenhoon, Versatile Spellcaster, etc., but a bard with 2nd level spells and the sanctum spell metamagic feat can cast 3rd level spells. If any of those mechanics are barred from your table, then thats your table and you have to play by local rules. There are certainly those that argue and dislike using those mechanics for PrC entry, as much as I dislike using something like a ring of evasion for PrC qualification (although RAW Legal). The same goes for level 1 bard spells and sanctum spell to cast second level spells for Spell Sword Entry. Although a poison ring weapon, with a ring of evasion effect, used as an illthiad weapon graft (Fiend Folio), would allow you to maintain evasion even in a antimagic field as long as they don't cut your hand off (gloves of man to restore full hand function too as needed). But I certainly feel I can post this when "temporary" HD increasing tricks are being posted (Also RAW).

Feat shuffling is also not well excepted at all tables, but you could shuffle out Sanctum Spell later if you need the feat more than the last level of Sublime Chord progress. Using one level of Fochlucan lyrist to advance bard casting to a total of 7 levels of casting to keep qualifications for Spelldancer and Sublime Chord before shuffling.

Still an UR-chord build has more spell slots and spells available, but this gets you a BAB of 16 for 4 attacks without divine power, casts everything off of Cha, and has spelldancer goodness. Also you don't need to be evil.

I much rather go Bard 2/Cleric 1/ Bard 2/ Eldrich Master 2/ Dweomerkeeper 1/ Eldritch Master 2/ Sublime Chord 1/ Dweomerkeeper 9 (advancing sublime chord)

Bard/Cleric/Sorc casting all off of the sublime chord spell slots. More crazy

Bard 1/Cleric 1/Wizard 1/Human paragon 2 beginning with Arcane Manipulation and Preparation. Break a 6th level sublime chord slot into a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd spell slot. Eldritch master kicks in granting spells known, while sublime chord and the eldritch master added spell lists grants what those spell can come from. But I diverge with a single 9 build with 3 spell lists.

[Elves]

The horse idea is pretty inventive. Never knew about that spell. The visual is a little weird.

Thanks for the ideas guys, ultimately I think I'll just play a warlock and not something fancy.