New OOTS products from CafePress
New OOTS t-shirts, ornaments, mugs, bags, and more
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 61 to 75 of 75
  1. - Top - End - #61
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Huh, I wonder how that got in my pouch? New Dragonlance is happening!

    Quote Originally Posted by bguy View Post
    Laurana and Dalamar at least. They are two of the most capable characters in the entire story.
    Dalamar is arguable. He makes a bunch of questionable calls and never really gets any payoff for the risks, but he keeps taking them.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  2. - Top - End - #62
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: Huh, I wonder how that got in my pouch? New Dragonlance is happening!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Dalamar is arguable. He makes a bunch of questionable calls and never really gets any payoff for the risks, but he keeps taking them.
    I don't know.

    Spoiler: The Legend Trilogy
    Show
    He went straight from being an apprentice mage to the Master of the entire Order of the Black Robes with his own Tower of High Sorcery as his reward for spying on Raistlin. That's a pretty good payoff for the risks involved.

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Forum Explorer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Huh, I wonder how that got in my pouch? New Dragonlance is happening!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    There are elves in the Dragonlance books who aren't stupid?

    (Also, I suspect the sensitivity issue with gully dwarves is: miscegenation results in children who are universally moronic, cowardly, and filthy.)
    Plenty of them. Most have been named already.

    I don't remember anything about Gully Dwarves resulting from crossbreeding in the main books. Actually I don't remember it ever going into the origin of Gully Dwarves.

    In any case, the Gully Dwarves are considered their own clan for basically all of Dwarven history. And there's other examples of crossbred dwarves who are nothing like Gully Dwarves (for example Sequest), so if you do have a source saying that's where they come from, it is demonstratively wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Dalamar is arguable. He makes a bunch of questionable calls and never really gets any payoff for the risks, but he keeps taking them.
    He gets an entire tower of magic and is one of head mages of magic on the continent.
    Spoiler: I'm a writer!
    Show
    Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"
    Show
    here[/URL]
    ]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

    I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP

    Procrastination: MLP



    Spoiler: Original Fiction
    Show
    The Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.



  4. - Top - End - #64
    Troll in the Playground
     
    JadedDM's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Huh, I wonder how that got in my pouch? New Dragonlance is happening!

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    I don't remember anything about Gully Dwarves resulting from crossbreeding in the main books. Actually I don't remember it ever going into the origin of Gully Dwarves.

    In any case, the Gully Dwarves are considered their own clan for basically all of Dwarven history. And there's other examples of crossbred dwarves who are nothing like Gully Dwarves (for example Sequest), so if you do have a source saying that's where they come from, it is demonstratively wrong.
    Not sure who Sequest is; can't find any reference to that name anywhere.

    That being said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlance Adventures (1E)
    The tale of the Greystone of Gargath tells of how the dwarves and kender came into being. In the years that followed, a few intermarriages between gnomes and dwarves occurred in isolated communities across Ansalon. Surprisingly, the children of such marriages proved to be of an entirely new race, with their own particular characteristics. The members of this new race lacked all the better qualities of their parents. Further intermarriages were banned by dwarven and gnomish societies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tales of the Lance (2E)
    Gully dwarves are fertile crossbreeds of outcast dwarves and outcast humans. They appeared at the time of the Greystone. The hybrid unfortunately lacked the best traits of both parents. Nothing these deficiencies, the humans and dwarves banned further intermarriages.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlance Campaign Setting (3E)
    According to the Iconochronos, gully dwarves are the result of breeding between gnomes and dwarves in the years following the transformation of the gnomes by the Graygem of Gargath. The gnome-dwarf half-breeds appeared to inherit the worst qualities of both races.
    So it varies, sometimes they are from human/dwarf hybrids, other times from dwarf/gnome hybrids. But that's three sources, from the official campaign setting sourcebooks for 1st, 2nd and 3rd edition. (There are no conversions into 4E and 5E.)

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Forum Explorer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Huh, I wonder how that got in my pouch? New Dragonlance is happening!

    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    Not sure who Sequest is; can't find any reference to that name anywhere.

    That being said:







    So it varies, sometimes they are from human/dwarf hybrids, other times from dwarf/gnome hybrids. But that's three sources, from the official campaign setting sourcebooks for 1st, 2nd and 3rd edition. (There are no conversions into 4E and 5E.)
    Sequest is a dwarf who is half hill dwarf and half dark dwarf.




    And none of those are actually any of the novels. It's not something the authors came up with or something you'd be aware of without being a big D&D player.
    Spoiler: I'm a writer!
    Show
    Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"
    Show
    here[/URL]
    ]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

    I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP

    Procrastination: MLP



    Spoiler: Original Fiction
    Show
    The Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.



  6. - Top - End - #66
    Troll in the Playground
     
    JadedDM's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Huh, I wonder how that got in my pouch? New Dragonlance is happening!

    So he's half-dwarf and half...dwarf? That just makes him a dwarf. Which book is he from?

    And sorry to break it to you, but those three books I listed all have Weis' and Hickman's names on them (except the 3E one, which only lists Weis as an author).

  7. - Top - End - #67
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Forum Explorer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Huh, I wonder how that got in my pouch? New Dragonlance is happening!

    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    So he's half-dwarf and half...dwarf? That just makes him a dwarf. Which book is he from?

    And sorry to break it to you, but those three books I listed all have Weis' and Hickman's names on them (except the 3E one, which only lists Weis as an author).
    The Doom Brigade.


    That proves nothing, considering that Dragonlance is written by a team of people, and Weis and Hickman don't have the final say on what goes out to print. They only control what parts they personally write. And considering that it never makes it into any of their other work, and that it keeps changing and that it doesn't really make any sense in the first place, I'm disinclined to believe that it is something they intend to be part of the setting.
    Spoiler: I'm a writer!
    Show
    Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"
    Show
    here[/URL]
    ]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

    I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP

    Procrastination: MLP



    Spoiler: Original Fiction
    Show
    The Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.



  8. - Top - End - #68
    Troll in the Playground
     
    JadedDM's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Huh, I wonder how that got in my pouch? New Dragonlance is happening!

    Ahhh, okay, you're talking about Selquist. Yeah, he's not a half-dwarf, he's just a dwarf. That's like saying someone who's Solamnic on their mother's side and Ergothian on their father's side is half-human.

    And you can believe whatever you want, but your argument makes no sense. Do you really think Weis and Hickman have 100% creative control of the novels but not the sourcebooks? On the 1st Edition version (Dragonlance Adventures), not only is Weis' and Hickman's names on the cover, but the book's dedication is to Hickman's wife, Laura (it reads, "To Laura Curtis Hickman, my wife, for whom worlds were created.")

    You can limit 'canon' to things only specifically spelled out in the original novels, if you want, but that means most of the gods don't exist (Majere, Zivilyn, Hiddukel, to name a few), as well as a number of races (like the phaethons, ursoi, and kyrie, among others), and several nations, as well (not to mention the entire continent of Taladas).
    Last edited by JadedDM; 2021-01-27 at 09:16 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #69
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Huh, I wonder how that got in my pouch? New Dragonlance is happening!

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    He gets an entire tower of magic and is one of head mages of magic on the continent.
    I mean sure, but he also gets some gaping chest wounds that never heal, which is worse than the other heads of the black robed order got, and the tower itself is sort of small consolation given that as head of the black robes, he would have access to similar resources in the other tower.

    Maybe ive just missed some books, but its really unclear what he actually got from studying under Raistlen as opposed to any other black robed archmage.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  10. - Top - End - #70
    Troll in the Playground
     
    JadedDM's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Huh, I wonder how that got in my pouch? New Dragonlance is happening!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I mean sure, but he also gets some gaping chest wounds that never heal....
    I don't know, he seemed pretty proud of those gaping chest wounds. Kept showing them off to everyone he met.

  11. - Top - End - #71
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Forum Explorer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Huh, I wonder how that got in my pouch? New Dragonlance is happening!

    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    Ahhh, okay, you're talking about Selquist. Yeah, he's not a half-dwarf, he's just a dwarf. That's like saying someone who's Solamnic on their mother's side and Ergothian on their father's side is half-human.

    And you can believe whatever you want, but your argument makes no sense. Do you really think Weis and Hickman have 100% creative control of the novels but not the sourcebooks? On the 1st Edition version (Dragonlance Adventures), not only is Weis' and Hickman's names on the cover, but the book's dedication is to Hickman's wife, Laura (it reads, "To Laura Curtis Hickman, my wife, for whom worlds were created.")

    You can limit 'canon' to things only specifically spelled out in the original novels, if you want, but that means most of the gods don't exist (Majere, Zivilyn, Hiddukel, to name a few), as well as a number of races (like the phaethons, ursoi, and kyrie, among others), and several nations, as well (not to mention the entire continent of Taladas).
    Sure sure, but until you went into more detail I didn't even think they had anything on Half-dwarves.


    No, I acknowledge they don't have 100% control over their novels either. This thread started off with people talking about how their editors forced them to take things out. There are even things that are explicitly not their work in those novels. They do however have more control over it, and Weis and Hickman do a really good job of slipping background information into the main story. Even if you've only ever read the main trilogies, you'd know that kender were creating by the Greygem for example.

    Also yes, all of those Gods do get an appearance during the War of Souls and I think you can find references to their constellations in other trilogies as well.

    While Gully Dwarf pasts have been talked about, they've always been talked about as if they were always just dwarves. No character in canon, nor in the author comments I've read, have said that Gully Dwarves are a crossbreed, even when explicitly talking about the past of Gully Dwarves. As far as I'm aware, that's unique to the RPG books and them alone.

    But the biggest thing is that it doesn't even make sense. Half-elves are incredibly rare, so much so they couldn't fill a city with their numbers and most half-elves go through their life never meeting another half-elf. Gully Dwarves are relatively common. There are entire cities of them, they can field military divisions, and their clans can be found all around the world. The idea that they are half-dwarves are ridiculous when you compare them to half-elves, which are formed from much less isolationist species than dwarves.


    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    I mean sure, but he also gets some gaping chest wounds that never heal, which is worse than the other heads of the black robed order got, and the tower itself is sort of small consolation given that as head of the black robes, he would have access to similar resources in the other tower.

    Maybe ive just missed some books, but its really unclear what he actually got from studying under Raistlen as opposed to any other black robed archmage.
    Well Dalamar has been studying for a remarkably short time compared to other wizards. He's pretty young compared to the other black robed archmages we see.
    Spoiler: I'm a writer!
    Show
    Spoiler: Check out my fanfiction[URL="https://www.fanfiction.net/u/7493788/Forum-Explorer"
    Show
    here[/URL]
    ]Fate Stay Nano: Fate Stay Night x Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha

    I Fell in Love with a Storm: MLP

    Procrastination: MLP



    Spoiler: Original Fiction
    Show
    The Lost Dragon: A story about a priest who finds a baby dragon in his church and decides to protect them.



  12. - Top - End - #72
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Huh, I wonder how that got in my pouch? New Dragonlance is happening!

    As far as gully dwarves go, i believe the idea of them being a crossbreed is in-universe speculation, and that the actual origin is unknown. Worth noting is that dwarves will absolutely deny any relation to gully dwarves to non-dwarves, but their internal politics still have a seat for the Aghar clan on the council and in their militaries.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  13. - Top - End - #73
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Huh, I wonder how that got in my pouch? New Dragonlance is happening!

    I always thought the point of Dalimar is he is in love with ambition. He idolizes two of the Majere's because of their consuming ambitions, and betrays them for his own.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  14. - Top - End - #74
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Dec 2019

    Default Re: Huh, I wonder how that got in my pouch? New Dragonlance is happening!

    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    And you can believe whatever you want, but your argument makes no sense. Do you really think Weis and Hickman have 100% creative control of the novels but not the sourcebooks? On the 1st Edition version (Dragonlance Adventures), not only is Weis' and Hickman's names on the cover, but the book's dedication is to Hickman's wife, Laura (it reads, "To Laura Curtis Hickman, my wife, for whom worlds were created.")
    Hickman (and later Weis) were on the Dragonlance team at TSR who collaboratively came up with the Dragonlance modules that the books were based off of. It wasn't 100% their creation and they certainly didn't have 100% control of the novels or RPG material. I actually got to meet Hickman in the early 90's and some of the directions Dragonlance had been taken in even back then didn't sit well with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by JadedDM View Post
    You can limit 'canon' to things only specifically spelled out in the original novels, if you want, but that means most of the gods don't exist (Majere, Zivilyn, Hiddukel, to name a few), as well as a number of races (like the phaethons, ursoi, and kyrie, among others), and several nations, as well (not to mention the entire continent of Taladas).
    Those gods as well as other canon details actually predate the novels. They were part of the source material for the world created by the Dragonlance team. They were first published in, I believe, sourcebook DL5 Dragons of Mystery, which has Hickman & Weis' name on it as well as the other members of the team. Don't recall if DL5 came out before or after Dragons of Autumn Twilight. The races you mention all appear in the original modules as well if I recall.

  15. - Top - End - #75
    Troll in the Playground
     
    JadedDM's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Washington, USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Huh, I wonder how that got in my pouch? New Dragonlance is happening!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire_Flumph View Post
    Don't recall if DL5 came out before or after Dragons of Autumn Twilight. The races you mention all appear in the original modules as well if I recall.
    Technically, DoAT came out first, but not by much. It was released in November of 1984. Dragons of Mystery (DL5) was released a month later, in December of 1984.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •