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  1. - Top - End - #31
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    Why has it not occurred to Redcloak or Oona that those wooden doors wouldn't stop the monsters they are fighting in the dungeons? What keeps the monsters from coming out?
    "Magic" may be as far as Oona and her friends need to know; there is a shaman at the village. (Also note here).
    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Yes.
    Oof. You really know how to hurt a guy ..
    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    The MitD is not with Team Evil. {snip}{ Which is another reason to take Xykon down now - he's short a powerful ally.
    Ah, yeah, I keep forgetting about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    If Xykon reforms and finds himself 6' from Redcloak, not in his impenetrable astral plane fortress, Xykon will rightly conclude he has been betrayed by Redcloak, and hijinks will ensue. Including the triggering of the order by Xykon to the MitD to devour Redcloak.
    We may be getting close to The Big Reveal.
    And what the IFCC is up to ...
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    SamuraiGuy

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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    1. Xykon cannot just reform immediately once his body gets destroyed, the process takes some time, so Redcloak will have time to take measures were that to happen.
    2. I don't know where the phylactery is, but it's definitely not 6' away from Redcloak. I'd guess it's either on him or in the village.



    There's the issue that he still isn't around to do so. Also, he may not be smart enough to realize when exactly Redcloak betrays Xykon and we know the spell doesn't trigger if he doesn't know what's going on. Otherwise he would have attacked Redcloak already.
    Now, what I'd find nice would be Xykon turning on Redcloak and the Order saving him from the Bony Bastard, which could serve as a good starting point for renewed discussions.
    A "slain" lich reforms near their phylactery. I think 6' is the radius, but close. In earlier strips, Xykon literally reformed from the phylactery - he grew from the head down.
    Agree that it's not instantaneous, but Redcloak has no way to get the real phylactery into Xykon's Fortress of Meanness, so unless he destroys it (how?), Xykon reforms somewhere and knows he was betrayed.
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  3. - Top - End - #33
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Extra thought.... If the party is setting up a trap for Xykon...

    Are going to get a return for Explosive Runes? Seems like one of their better trap spells.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by GooeyChewie View Post
    Yay, new comic for my birthday! I hope the paladins get help soon!
    Many Happy Returns!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    A "slain" lich reforms near their phylactery. I think 6' is the radius, but close. In earlier strips, Xykon literally reformed from the phylactery - he grew from the head down.
    Agree that it's not instantaneous, but Redcloak has no way to get the real phylactery into Xykon's Fortress of Meanness, so unless he destroys it (how?), Xykon reforms somewhere and knows he was betrayed.
    And then the fun begins.

    I am thinking through a combat scenari: Roy's sword and spell splinter maneuver seem to me to be the key to Roy getting the better of Xykon; Xykon's casting of spells, and the level at which he casts them, is substantial - dwarfing V's magical capability.
    The rest of the party needs to keep Redcloak busy, and prevent him from disabling Roy with something like Dominate or Hold Person. I think Belkar and Bloodfeast (who will make a brilliant return! {somehow}) can handle Oona and Greyview.

    Somehow, I hope that Rich ends up with some kind of octagonal pattern on the ground for the Belkar/Oona battle:
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    Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2021-01-27 at 09:44 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    (paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by greenstone View Post
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    Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct
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    Self-deception tends to have a low target number
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  5. - Top - End - #35
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Ah, an update so soon?! That was fast!!

    "I love it when you talk fighting dirty to me" lol

    Also now we know O-Chul and Lien are OK!!!!!!!

    I'm so excited to possibly see their mystery captors. (We might not see them now, but still!!!)

    Also, I'm supposed to be working. I should get back to that now. So long!
    Last edited by Robots; 2021-01-27 at 09:51 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    I do wonder if the IFCC will use up one of their soul grabs here. If they need Xykon and/or Redcloak alive, they may have no choice, but this ambush opportunity is so good that even that might not be enough to tilt the scales.

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    I think 6' is the radius, but close.
    My mistake.

    Agree that it's not instantaneous, but Redcloak has no way to get the real phylactery into Xykon's Fortress of Meanness, so unless he destroys it (how?), Xykon reforms somewhere and knows he was betrayed.
    Taking it to the Fortress is indeed not an option, but destroying it probably is. Redcloak had an ample amount of time to figure out how to do it and to remove some of the buffs.

  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Dang, Roy, shouldn't have said that. Plans never work when you say them out loud.

    Glad to see Lien and O-Chul are (relatively) okay.

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Redcloak has it.
    Redcloak had it. We have no idea if he still does. It would make sense for him to, but he could easily have stashed it elsewhere since we last saw it.

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by facw View Post
    Redcloak had it. We have no idea if he still does.
    We also have no idea if he is still alive, or still a cleric. But I feel pretty confident in saying "yes, still" to all three unless we are given any actual reason to doubt. This far, we are given no reason to doubt he doesn't still have the phylactery on him.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Doubtful. They're intruders. Doesn't matter how Serini felt about Soon, there should not be intruders.
    They haven't moved against Redcloak and Xykon, though, and they are definitely intruders. Is it that they're accompanying Oona that they're not considered intruders?
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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    So if team evil ends up finding the gate in the tunnel they just went down, the order has no way of knowing. That said, given this whole teleportation set-up, I don't think you can get to the gate by just choosing the right door accidentally.

    I feel like at some point in this book, Xykon's body gets destroyed, and redcloak escapes. Then he's left with a choice, to either negotiate or deal with Xykon realizing he's not reforming in his fortress.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Cool one. I strongly hope panel no. 4 will silence the „you have a rogue, you have the Gate” crew at long last.
    I only started reading the forums this last week... but it seems like strips 1223 and 1224 sort of speak directly to some of the discussions here. Is that typical? Gives the strips some added dimension...

    Also, I see reason to suspect the next one will be an all-paladin strip, maybe with Green and Orange.
    Speaking of which, is there discussion of them anywhere? I recently re-read strip 1189 and I realized some details I missed the first time (about, among other things, the number of arms and legs possessed by the invisible people).

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by subtledoctor View Post
    I only started reading the forums this last week... but it seems like strips 1223 and 1224 sort of speak directly to some of the discussions here. Is that typical? Gives the strips some added dimension...
    .
    The Giant has, multiple times, stated that he does NOT read the comment threads and does NOT modify the comic based on what is in the comment threads.

    I'm not sure I believe that, given how on the nose some of the in comic commentary is toward explaining things that often irrational viewers in the comment threads come up with that don't really need to be explained. But I give him the benefit of the doubt as he gives us wonderful comics.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by subtledoctor View Post
    I only started reading the forums this last week... but it seems like strips 1223 and 1224 sort of speak directly to some of the discussions here. Is that typical? Gives the strips some added dimension...
    I think it happened before, but I wouldn't say it's typical and I definitely wouldn't assume all of it is in response to the forum discussions.

    Speaking of which, is there discussion of them anywhere? I recently re-read strip 1189 and I realized some details I missed the first time (about, among other things, the number of arms and legs possessed by the invisible people).
    We discussed them several times, if that is what you are curious about. Much of this thread is devoted to such a discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    They haven't moved against Redcloak and Xykon, though, and they are definitely intruders. Is it that they're accompanying Oona that they're not considered intruders?
    Or, they aren't working for Serini?
    Last edited by Metastachydium; 2021-01-27 at 10:39 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #46
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Help is on the way Lien, just not for you

    Thanks Giant!
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  17. - Top - End - #47
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by subtledoctor View Post
    I only started reading the forums this last week... but it seems like strips 1223 and 1224 sort of speak directly to some of the discussions here. Is that typical? Gives the strips some added dimension...
    It's typical for people to feel that way, but in the book it will flow and you get the information you need when you need it.

    Rich SETS UP questions like "how does this trap work", the forums frantically speculate for weeks, Rich then answers "how does this trap work" in the next comic and people wonder if he's addressing the forum. The answer is no.

    Now: When he had the long discussion of possible names for the vampire version of Durkon, THAT may have been a response to the forums. It wasn't really needed for the story and the character's casually threw out a dozen suggestions better than most forum suggestions. But in general, when Rich wants to reply to the forums he POSTS in the forums.

  18. - Top - End - #48
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    2. I don't know where the phylactery is, but it's definitely not 6' away from Redcloak. I'd guess it's either on him or in the village.
    Quote Originally Posted by facw View Post
    Redcloak had it. We have no idea if he still does. It would make sense for him to, but he could easily have stashed it elsewhere since we last saw it.
    In the strip when Redcloak claimed the fake phylactery off of the dead elder craftsman he hired to make it, he kept the fake in a fancy carrying case, and promptly dropped the real one into what I would figure is a Bag of Holding, which is probably still on his person for safekeeping (while Xykon snatched the carrying case with the fake phylactery).

    I guess the question for me is, would there be any way to escape or burst out of the demiplane or extraplanar space that constitutes a Bag of Holding? Especially when one doesn't have limbs yet?
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  19. - Top - End - #49
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    I love it when you talk fighting dirty to me.

    me too

    Great work as always, Giant. Thankyou.

  20. - Top - End - #50
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    "Keep something in"? I smell a relative of tMitD coming!

    Quote Originally Posted by Metastachydium View Post
    Cool one. I strongly hope panel no. 4 will silence the „you have a rogue, you have the Gate” crew at long last.
    Also, I see reason to suspect the next one will be an all-paladin strip, maybe with Green and Orange.
    Between the next panel and the Order's decision to stay put, this is definitely a transition.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedScholarGypsy View Post
    Learning for past mistakes? We really have entered the endgame. Love the dialog bouncing from different perspectives. And "Yeah paladins!" is a phrase I never thought I'd say...

    Also, remember the trap is disabled for about twenty seconds, or three rounds I'd guess. With a surprise round, it should be doable to disable the trap, divide team evil onto two different sides of the line, then let it reactivate and finish off whomever you got. Separate RC from X, and you have a very winnable fight.
    Ah good point, I was wondering why Haley wanted to disable the trap rather than simply spring on their back. This makes more sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Coyote0715 View Post
    Was it determined how they get back out? If they walk through the trap now (without disabling), they wind up at the dead end? And if they then walk through the trap again from the dead end, where to they wind up? Back where they are now? So, we (and they) are thinking the only way back out is to temporarily disable the trap again?
    Well, this tunnel is presumably going somewhere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    Why has it not occurred to Redcloak or Oona that those wooden doors wouldn't stop the monsters they are fighting in the dungeons? What keeps the monsters from coming out?
    Well the outside is the arctic so...
    Quote Originally Posted by GooeyChewie View Post
    Yay, new comic for my birthday! I hope the paladins get help soon!
    Merry birthday to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by subtledoctor View Post
    I only started reading the forums this last week... but it seems like strips 1223 and 1224 sort of speak directly to some of the discussions here. Is that typical? Gives the strips some added dimension...



    Speaking of which, is there discussion of them anywhere? I recently re-read strip 1189 and I realized some details I missed the first time (about, among other things, the number of arms and legs possessed by the invisible people).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
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  21. - Top - End - #51
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    "Help" is on the way. A very long way I think.
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    For some reason I find Roy and Belkar being on the same wavelength kinda concerning.
    But at the same time it means this will be fun.
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  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNecrocomicon View Post
    In the strip when Redcloak claimed the fake phylactery off of the dead elder craftsman he hired to make it, he kept the fake in a fancy carrying case, and promptly dropped the real one into what I would figure is a Bag of Holding, which is probably still on his person for safekeeping (while Xykon snatched the carrying case with the fake phylactery).

    I guess the question for me is, would there be any way to escape or burst out of the demiplane or extraplanar space that constitutes a Bag of Holding? Especially when one doesn't have limbs yet?
    That's a very interesting question/idea. I checked the SRD for an answer and came up mostly empty. I did find a useful bit of information, however:
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    If the bag is overloaded, or if sharp objects pierce it (from inside or outside), the bag ruptures and is ruined. All contents are lost forever.
    That would mean all Redcloak needs to get an angry Xykon off his back is a cheap dagger. If the phylactery is in the bag, Xykon is in the phylactery and the bag ruptures, Xykon should get lost forever.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shining Wrath View Post
    And yes, ambushing Xykon from behind as he exits the dungeon is a winning move
    I don't see why. In fact I think it's worse than just ambushing Team Evil from outside the canyon as he is about to exit. If the Order is ambushing them from the inside, then some of Team Evil can try to escape towards the canyon where they may have allies.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNecrocomicon View Post
    In the strip when Redcloak claimed the fake phylactery off of the dead elder craftsman he hired to make it, he kept the fake in a fancy carrying case, and promptly dropped the real one into what I would figure is a Bag of Holding, which is probably still on his person for safekeeping (while Xykon snatched the carrying case with the fake phylactery).

    I guess the question for me is, would there be any way to escape or burst out of the demiplane or extraplanar space that constitutes a Bag of Holding? Especially when one doesn't have limbs yet?
    Redcloak's backup holy symbol is diamond-shaped. Redcloak's current holy symbol is round. And I, for one, find that quite interesting.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Now is Elan going to point out that Haley was probably just hit by dramatic irony, or will he fall for it too to maximize the irony?

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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Redcloak's backup holy symbol is diamond-shaped. Redcloak's current holy symbol is round. And I, for one, find that quite interesting.
    Yeah, that was weird. I saw that the second we saw him in the Bugbear village, but I assumed it was a stylistic mistake. Maybe it’s the real phylactery? Why hasn’t Xykon noticed?
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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    dun dun dun duuuuun!

    nobody expects an update on a wednesday after only five days!
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  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrock Bait View Post
    Yeah, that was weird. I saw that the second we saw him in the Bugbear village, but I assumed it was a stylistic mistake. Maybe it’s the real phylactery? Why hasn’t Xykon noticed?
    Xykon thinks he has the real one. As far as he's concerned, that's just a holy symbol Redcloak dredged up so the backup one stays a backup.

    Maybe. I'm just theorizing here, after all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
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    Default Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread

    Is there a defined idea as to what the fumes/steam in the last panel is, does it look like anything from previous strips?

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