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2021-01-27, 11:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
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2021-01-27, 11:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
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- Londinnium
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2021-01-27, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Birmingham, AL
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Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
Last edited by Peelee; 2021-01-27 at 11:49 AM.
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-01-27, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2013
Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
Spoiler: Avatar & Iron Chef AwardsAwesome Dragonfire Bard Avatar by Oneris. A detailed version is here.
Iron Chef awards:
IC C Swiftblade: Honorable Mention for Pahika Kanikani, the Wardancer
IC CII Blade Dancer: Silver for Hu Tiaowu, the Jungle Guardian
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2021-01-27, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
The Snarl is purple and blue, this is yellow/green and gray.
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-01-27, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
I logged in for the first time in a very long time to point something out. I hope Haley's ambush doesn't involve grappling Xykon. That's one way the plan could backfire.
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2021-01-27, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
If a tree falls in the forest and the PCs aren't around to hear it... what do I roll to see how loud it is?
Is 3.5 a fried-egg, chili-chutney sandwich?
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2021-01-27, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
Note that the Order had no idea there was anything wrong until Roy's attack failed to connect. This means the tunnels are similar enough to have no giveaway that the trap was disabled.
Note also that the entire reason that Xykon and Redcloak are in this tunnel is that they were chasing Durkon.
So, you're chasing a dwarf and are suddenly attacked from behind by that dwarf's known allies. Either this is the result of a trap so subtle and well made that you went through it repeatedly without noticing, or else the dwarf led you into a preplanned ambush. Which is going to seem more likely?
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2021-01-27, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
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- the rules between space
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Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
Nice strip. Ochul's expression is a great counter point to the optimism.
Interesting plan by OotS... putting all their eggs into the surprise basket. When Team Evil beats them, they will have revealed the location of the true entrance. Should be fun!Thanks to all the players who joinedJune 27 ... July 14, 2011July 7 ... July 28, 2012
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2021-01-27, 12:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
How to turn off these annoying .sigs:
- Edit your profile options.
- Scroll down to "Visible Post Elements".
- Uncheck "Show Signatures".
- Save changes.
- Enjoy a much less cluttered and noisy forum.
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2021-01-27, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2018
Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
I find O-Chul's expression hilarious. "God dang it, not this imprisoned crap again."
Might not be what Rich intended, but it made me chuckle.
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2021-01-27, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
It won't because nobody wants to have to make sense of the grappling rules.
Did I make my D&D joke right?
The issues raised on this forum are raised in response to the content of the comic, Rich, knowing what is in the comic, is very well placed to guess ahead of time what issues would pop up in the mind of the readers and answer them.Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-01-27, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
I'd put it differently: you chase a dwarf, the dwarf runs into a tunnel. The dwarf then disappear, and neither your True Seeing, nor your worg can locate 'em. Then suddenly, as you leave the tunnel, the dwarf emerges from it having grown half an army and the floor of the tunnel is visibly discoloured.
Redcloak would definitely conclude that something's fishy.
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2021-01-27, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
Ambushing Team Evil right after they come out, probably weakened, isn't that bad of a plan, but the problem is that if you do the math Xykon is at the level where he should be able to curbstomp them with absolute ease. Even his minimum CR is on the level of a Solar and less restrictive estimates range in the high 20s or even low 30s.
Even ignoring the admittedly imprecise CR system... what are they going to do against him?
- The closest thing to Roy's Spellsplinter Maneuver in the rules is Mage Slayer, which prevents the target from casting defensively and thus actually having to make Concentration checks. Except Xykon is undead and therefore uses his Charisma instead of his Constitution. Roy can hit pretty hard, but he's not ignoring Xykon's DR. So if the SSM remotely works like that then he's going to have trouble disrupting Xykon's spells. And any rounds spent readying an attack are rounds he's not smashing Xykon's skull in.
- Durkon can bypass Xykon's DR effortlessly, but the problem is hitting. He's so behind on levels from the rest of the Order he's practically a cohort. And while clerics can buff their melee prowess to ridiculous amounts, that typically takes a few rounds without Persistent or Quicken Spell, feats Durkon's never shown - and he's certainly not going to have the rounds to cast those in combat, or maybe even the spell slots. Minrah is going to be doing even less against Xykon.
- Haley and Belkar are basically useless because they're going to be doing at most single-digit damage against him. Elan can use bardic music at least, but the rest of his spells don't really work against Xykon.
- Few spells V can cast or possibly will ever cast have much effect on Xykon. Blasting's out aside from Magic Missile, enchantments are out since he's undead, the Hand spells can't do anything due to those new Boots of Freedom of Movement Xykon got in the dungeons and even things like Forcecage both prevent the rest of the Order from attacking him and also can be bypassed by Xykon just teleporting out of them. Not to mention that the IFCC can yoink them out of the fight whenever they want to. They might have learned Sunburst, but there's only so many they can prepare and Xykon's going to make them his primary target if they use it.
And this is just his defensive capabilities, let alone what his allies can do.
Honestly, if this was an actual game and not a story, I'd probably call BS. It's why I'm betting Xykon gets defeated once and for all because Roy bull rushes him into the Rift and the Snarl eats him.Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.
Editor/co-writer of Magicae Est Potestas, a crossover between Artemis Fowl and Undertale. Ao3 FanFiction.net DeviantArt
We also have a TvTropes page!
Currently playing: Red Hand of Doom(campaign journal)Campaign still going on, but journal discontinued until further notice.
Extended sig here.
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2021-01-27, 12:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
I'd say that's a very common trope of tabletop roleplaying
The monsters NEVER go out the dungeon unless they're chasing the PJS, it's a dragon on patrol that may return any minute now, or they're goblins raiding the countryside before the start of the adventure (thus generating rumors for the PJs to follow).
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2021-01-27, 12:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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2021-01-27, 01:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2011
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- Sharangar's Revenge
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Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
Roy's sword is Starmetal, and Xykon doesn't seem to have damage reduction against it (p2). Plus there's that green glow that is "particularly harmful to the undead."
Warhammer 40,000 Campaign Skirmish Game: Warpstrike
My Spelljammer stuff (including an orbit tracker), 2E AD&D spreadsheet, and Vault of the Drow maps are available in my Dropbox. Feel free to use or not use it as you see fit!
Thri-Kreen Ranger/Psionicist by me, based off of Rich's A Monster for Every Season
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2021-01-27, 01:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2018
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- NJ (right next to philly)
Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
i know, right? first time i open firefox when i bring my computer out of sleep (after doing my stuff in icedragon and cyberfox) i check OOTS, IG and reddit! i also open a wikipedia tab in case i wanna RC patrol for vandalism.
i was not expecting another out of nowhere even though i go through the motions of checking several times per day.
i mean i'm probably one of the few here who doesn't play D&D at all yet i'm addicted to this comic XD
also it's nice to see lien and o'chul again :D they've been away since comic 1189!
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2021-01-27, 01:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
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Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2021-01-27, 01:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
I think the most interesting piece of information here is that Green and Orange have facilities for taking prisoners, presumably within walking/flying distance of the Monster Hollow.
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2021-01-27, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2020
Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
I'm putting my quatloos on "no chance at all of it working," mainly for the reasons Elan gave a few strips ago -- too soon, too many players who haven't put their pieces on the board yet to have the big epic confrontation. Plus isn't it practically a bardic law that the heroes must make their final stand from a position of desperation and hopeless odds, not from a position of strength?
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2021-01-27, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
On the other hand the Order knows what kind of spells Xykon has and can pretty effectively defend itself against his two favored attack spells (Energy Drain and Meteor Swarm). Durkon's Mass Energy Drain will neutralize Energy Drain and wide casting of Protection from Energy (Fire) will largely negate Meteor Swarm. (Yes, the Order would still take bludgeoning damage from Xykon's meteors, but the bludgeoning damage (which is only going to be 2d6 X 4) is pretty minor damage for a 9th level spell.) And while Xykon can debuff the Order's protections the round he is doing that is a round where he is not directly attacking the Order which means they are essentially guaranteed at least 2 rounds of attacks on him before he even starts to do any real damage them (three if they get a surprise round.) Roy and Durkon can do a lot of damage to Xykon with two or three rounds of free attacks.
And while its true that Belkar, Haley, and V can't really do much damage to Xykon himself, they can certainly be effective against Redcloak, Oona, and Greyview. (Indeed with Power Word Stun, V has a real good shot at neutralizing Redcloak in the very first round.)
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2021-01-27, 01:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
Furthermore, it is also relatively easy to find comics answering questions that the forum never asked, demonstrating that Rich isn't reading the forum to know what to answer, but instead predicts the kind of questions that might be in any reader's minds (whether they are forum members or not) and tries to address them.
Thinking that Rich adds text to answer the forum, I feel, is egotism of the highest degree. We aren't that crucial to Rich's writing process. We are, in fact, utterly irrelevant to it.
Grey WolfInterested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2021-01-27, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
Not quite. We do pay for it by buying stuff.
*goes to look for interesting stuff at CafePress*
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2021-01-27, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2013
Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
With our outside-universe knowledge as readers, the Order's best strategy is probably to drag Redcloak and optionally also Oona through the booby trap and kill or at least incapacitate them while Xykon is cut off from them. Redcloak has already used a few high-level spell slots. That multi-dimensional stone probably also interferes with Word of Recall so he might not be able to retreat. This puts Team Evil's plan for the gate on hold indefinitely, because they need a high-level divine caster, and leaves the Order much better off and Team Evil much worse off in the next encounter.
With only their in-universe knowledge, they'll probably focus on whichever of Team Evil looks the most damaged and try to finish them off. This is essentially a gamble on how Team Evil's dungeon delve goes. It's assuming Team Evil gets in serious fights to begin with. They just opened their second door with a big red X on it and presumably are finding it occupied by monsters. This should make them very suspicious about their search. They might fight one oddly large rat and regroup. That would be bad for the Order's plan.
So maybe they'll start off with the second thing, notice it's not going well after they're already in combat, and exploit the booby trap as an escape plan?Last edited by cybishop; 2021-01-27 at 01:54 PM.
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2021-01-27, 01:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
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2021-01-27, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2007
Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
That is important to the comic as an enterprise (although I prefer the efficiency of subscribing to his Patreon, my economic teacher always insisted that regular, smaller predictable payments are preferable to larger singular unpredictable ones), but not to the writing process itself. Yes, yes, "one must have a roof above one's head and a belly full to write" and the like, but if Rich were to explain his writing process (and indeed, I think he has), there is no "check the forums to see what questions have arisen needing an answer" step.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2021-01-27 at 01:55 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2021-01-27, 02:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2021-01-27, 02:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
Minor point of order, I know he at least occasionally checks at least the first page of forum notes. There have been times people've pointed out some inconsistency that he's then corrected, but yeah few and far between and not to a significant degree :P
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2021-01-27, 02:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2019
Re: OOTS #1224 - The Discussion Thread
I assume you meant Durkon's Mass Death Ward. Problem is, Xykon can simply use Superb Dispelling and that will be that. And it won't protect them whatsoever from physical damage which Oona and Greyview dish out in bulk. I think the X-factor here is the Monster in the Darkness. He knows they are friends of O-Chul, and O-Chul's friends are effectively his friends. Additionally, the Order have knowledge that could "upset the balance" between Redcloak and Xykon, namely Redcloak's true intentions. This falls back in line with the MitD since Xykon instilled a mental command to eat Redcloak should he ever betray him.
I know if Redcloak dies, that would likely doom any chance of getting the Dark One's aid, but I think there's another deity who could be used instead.Last edited by Drake Halfmoon; 2021-01-27 at 02:28 PM.