As a GM, a [small] character wants to be a bow maker. Should I rule it differently?

[Dominion]

Title sums up the whole issue.

One of my players wants to play a 3-4 foot tall elf.

Didn't think much of it other than adjusting their size from medium to small. Now they want to make a bow since they picked that as their profession.

Anything I should do differently? It's the first small character PC in my group in general, is there anything else I should be aware of?

I'm rather new to GMing, so pardon if these are simple questions.

[Kardwill]

I don't see any reason why you would prevent the player from having this kind of stuff for their character. Just let them have their fun describing how their character crafts stuff for people taller (stronger?) than them. It's a known trope in many stories, after all (like shoemaking gnomes, or dwarves smithing weapons for giants and gods)

The real question is : Does taking that away from the player add anything to your game?

[Bookshelfstud]

I agree with Kardwill. Seems like a non-issue personally. Making players jump through more hoops for making more creative choices about their characters discourages creative thinking, IMO. If it really seems like the bowmaking should be a challenge for the smaller elf, just ask the player to describe something special they're doing to make the bows different. It's not a mechanical problem, it's a roleplaying opportunity :D

[warty goblin]

There's really no reason being small would limit somebody's ability to make bows. A self bow just requires working down a suitable piece of wood to the desired length and draw weight. Its basically careful woodwork (with a lot of attention to grain and growth rings) where occasionally you put the thing in a stand and see if it flexes evenly. I'm not sure what the tilloring process for cordage backed or composite bows is, but I have a difficult time imagining it somehow requires you to be five feet tall to do.

[Anymage]

Agreeing with everyone else that this should be a nonissue.

Let's break it into two levels. First, is it imbalanced? If there wouldn't be any problems with the medium human making the bow or the small elf just up and spending gold on it, there shouldn't be any problems with the small elf making it.

On the second level, does it make sense using in-universe logic? Like I might have a hard time picturing a giant making sewing needles appropriate for halfling size, just because of scale issues. Still, when talking PCs and bringing up things that wouldn't cause balance issues, I like to turn the issue around and let the player justify things. If real world humans can create art that fits in the eye of a needle, maybe a fantastically good giant can have a similar level of painstaking detail for his hobby. In the case of the small elf making a bow, simply laying it on its side should be all the justification one needs.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by warty goblin
There's really no reason being small would limit somebody's ability to make bows.

Agreed. Halflings make bows all the time.

[KillianHawkeye]

To put it in a different perspective, there's nothing stopping a human from making a bow for a giant.

[Kami2awa]

Humans can make (and use) bows taller than themselves:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumi

[Saint-Just]

Realistically for the work which requires application of strength and not something like glazing or inlaying someone with half or less muscle muss of a man would suffer some reduction in efficiency. If we are talking about D&D (judging by the [small]) it's definitely not RAW and seems to run contrary to the nature of the game as it is usually played (maybe some difficulty making weapons with two size differences, but one - there is just no good way or reason to assign any penalties).

Maybe talk with player about ways they can be limited-but-not-really. Unless they are unusually strong for their size they may have a trouble stringing a [medium]-sized bow, definitely would have trouble with a composite medium. But this is a job which shouldn't even require a proficiency with the said bow, just a very short task which may be accomplished by an appropriate-sized person under guidance of the character. Maybe heat-treating is a little harder but that is taken into account by the custom-made (usual price) tools. That both makes some difference and does not hamper them unless they are parted from their companions and tools. If the player is uncomfortable with that probably just roll with RAW and have their size have no effect at all.

Humans can make (and use) bows taller than themselves:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumi

That is not an appropriate example, difference between maker and the bow would be closer to human making a bow for the three-meter 250-kilogram humanoid. Still doable, though.

[Mr Beer]

This is the kind of request that I just say 'yes' to automatically unless there's a strong in-game reason to say no e.g. the character is inordinately weak and clumsy, or a hoplophobe, or your elves have a cultural hatred for bows.

Even then I'd probably say 'yes but', as in 'That's fine but you'll be known as Decrepit Elf, The Worst Bowmaker in the Kingdom' and if the player wants to run with it, we have a fun theme to use.

[warty goblin]

This is the kind of request that I just say 'yes' to automatically unless there's a strong in-game reason to say no e.g. the character is inordinately weak and clumsy, or a hoplophobe, or your elves have a cultural hatred for bows.

Even then I'd probably say 'yes but', as in 'That's fine but you'll be known as Decrepit Elf, The Worst Bowmaker in the Kingdom' and if the player wants to run with it, we have a fun theme to use.

I really don't see why. Bowmaking is a specialized form of moderately precise woodworking. You need the use of your hands, and enough strength to use knives, chisels, draw knives, small hewing axes, rasps and other similar woodworking tools. I was able to use all these tools comfortably as a ten year old kid; great power or bulk is in no way required. An eye for the details of the wood and excellent manual dexterity are going to be far more important than strength or size for pretty much all the work. About the only part that explicitly requires strength is tillering the bow so it draws evenly to the desired length, but there's absolutely no reason to bend the bow by hand when the windlasses needed to span heavy crossbows are readily available. Checking the draw of a 200lbs tops longbow is no problem for equipment capable of spanning 1000lbs crossbows.

[Dominion]

Thanks for all your replies =)

To clarify, I was never thinking about taking it away, just making it more difficult.

But I can see how the innocent question of "you want to make a bow longer than yourself? Describe to me how." Can lead to them being more engaged.
Also, it shows that I know very little of how bows are made so I am glad I got so much additional information from everyone.

Thanks guys and gals!

[Brother Oni]

That is not an appropriate example, difference between maker and the bow would be closer to human making a bow for the three-meter 250-kilogram humanoid. Still doable, though.

Indeed - for example, a siege crossbow that has a single piece prod:

Spoiler: Siege Crossbow

Show

[Kami2awa]

I don't think it's a good idea to try and limit players in this way, especially as (presumably) making a bow is a pretty normal activity in your world. People manage astounding feats of hand crafting, such as the eye-of-the-needle carvings mentioned above, often through their own ingenuity.

I'd actually applaud a player who wanted to stick with the pseudo-medieval nature of the world and become a bowyer, blacksmith, or similar, rather than the crazy, setting-breaking stuff players have a tendency to want to do in their downtime (such as wanting to start an industrial revolution, or kill the gods). Saying "no" to reasonable requests which don't spoil the game for other players is going to make the game less fun.

[MoiMagnus]

There is two approaches to this kind of "custom PCs".
(1) The player wants to play a small character because he want to "exploit" all the advantages of being small (easier cover, easier to be carried by other peoples, etc). In which case, it makes sense for the character to also suffer the disadvantages of being small (cannot use some weapons, etc).
(2) The player wants to play a small character for aesthetics, but doesn't really care about any of the mechanical effects with it, and specifically do not want some of them (like weapon restrictions). In that case, I'd say "go with it" and if you want a in-universe justification just give to the character some "elvish bow" that are smaller while being as powerful as regular bows because of some sort of special elvish wood.

[denthor]

Have the player take ranks in Boyer FletcherHave the player take ranks in Boyer Fletcher.

That solves the problem they get a profession and you get to go on with your game

[Saint-Just]

Have the player take ranks in Boyer Fletcher.

That solves the problem they get a profession and you get to go on with your game

Ahem.

they want to make a bow since they picked that as their profession.

Seems that player was gifted with sufficient foresight to take Craft (bowmaking) before being told they need it to make the bow.

[dps]

I've known people IRL who built their own houses. All of them were smaller than a house, so I don't see a problem.

[paddyfool]

No problem, very characterful. Just ask them to spend some appropriate skill points (profession and/or craft) and see how they roleplay it.

[Xuc Xac]

I've known people IRL who built their own houses. All of them were smaller than a house, so I don't see a problem.

Right? This seems like a made up problem, like "Halflings are too short to ride horses" even though humans ride elephants and dragons and stuff.

[Leon]

No, Small characters are already generally penalized in D&D, no sense it making it harder to do a trade because the are one step down a scale of size. The size of the character has little bearing on what they do in terms of making a bow. If they make it a bow for themselves it will be scaled to their size, if they make one for a larger character it will be for that size but nothing need or should change based on the PCs size. Now a really big (or small) character might have issues with making something for creatures outside of their own scale because of size of hands to details needed but that's out of the scope of this.