Results 31 to 57 of 57
-
2021-02-20, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
1. The actual rule text here is sole the first sentence:
You learn one additional spell at any level up to one lower than the highest level of spell you can currently cast.
2. All other sentences only give examples. And examples don't add rules, they explain/showchase rules.
Extra Spell is generally used ..
3. "lacks access to and would be unable to research" is referring to the fact that the actual rule/benefit this feat gives is ignoring any prohibited schools wizards may have.
Notice the "and" combining those conditions. It's not "or", so both conditions must be fulfilled for this example. There is sole one way to be generally (by the rules, not the DM ;) ) unable to research a certain spell. And that is by specializing in a school and thus giving up entire access to other schools of magic. Thus, this example is referring to that and not to picking spells from other classes list. Because spell research ain't generally prohibited to research spells from other classes spell list.Last edited by Gruftzwerg; 2021-02-20 at 08:52 PM.
Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
-
2021-02-21, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
Nowhere does it restrict you from learning custom spells that are added to the spell list from research.
This feat does not give permission to have access to spells within your prohibited schools. In order to do so you would have to make a custom spell with a school that you have access to.
Notice how the FAQ doesn't say that warmages can't research spells? Despite what the FAQ says, it doesn't prevent a player taking this feat from bypassing research requirements to add a spell to their list. Everything is under the control of what the DM allows. Many DMs don't allow spell research for custom spells, but that doesn't mean that the rules don't allow it.
We can argue nuance all day and neither side is going to win because the wording is too vague to have the right understanding of RAI. RAW allows it to happen and RAW allows the DM to prevent shenanigans. The FAQ is not RAW nor is it RAI. This is not pathfinder.Last edited by Darg; 2021-02-21 at 01:57 PM.
-
2021-02-22, 06:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
Point 3 is a quote form the actual feat description and thus a 100% RAW argument. I don't see how you have disproved it.
lacks access to and would be unable to research.
Sorcerer easily qualify for this requirement due to their limited spell knowledge and the lack of "spell research".
Wizards qualify with spells from forbidden schools. But since it is not spell research (it is sole part of the requirement), it did never gave you the permission to pick spells from other classes spell list.Last edited by Gruftzwerg; 2021-02-22 at 06:06 AM.
Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
-
2021-02-22, 10:28 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
Or perhaps unable to research due to lack of resources such as money or time? Lack of access could simply be that the wizard wouldn't be able to purchase or locate such a spell. Prohibited schools are prohibited schools.
Spells of the prohibited school or schools are not available to the wizardLast edited by Darg; 2021-02-22 at 10:30 AM.
-
2021-02-22, 10:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
If you want to argue that by "RAW" the feat can only be taken if you are to poor to effort to research is, I would give you a point. But I guess we can all agree that it shouldn't be the intention (RAI) of a feat to exclude the rich, with the exception of Vow of Poverty..^^
Even if the feat let the wizard learn the spell, it doesn't remove the "not available" quality unless handwaved by the DM. A wizard has free reign to copy a spell from their prohibited school in their spellbook; doesn't mean they can cast it.
The conditions "lacks access" and "unable to search" only fit for "forbidden school spells from your class list" as prepared caster (.e.g. wizard) or lets spontaneous caster with limited spells known and without access to spell research pick a spell from their class list.
The feat still never did give you the permission to pick from other classes lists (as "spell research" does as reference).Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
-
2021-02-22, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
It says you learn them. It does not say you are allowed to cast them. If you want to houserule it that way, feel free. You don't have to be too poor to research the spell. It could be that your DM doesn't give you the merchants to buy from, let the scroll drop as a reward, or let you research the spell beyond what the class gives for free.
This feat does not exclude the attainment of original/custom spells which is my argument from the start. This means that the feat would indeed have a use for warmage, who under normal circumstances would be unable to research original spells to add to their list thanks to the roleplay aspect of how they obtain their spells.
Never once did I say that it was a blank check to pick whatever spell one wished outside of their own spell list. The only feat that does that is precocious apprentice, and even then only until you gain access to 2nd level spells; at which point you lose access to the spell.
-
2021-02-23, 03:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2013
- Location
- Canada
- Gender
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
Psion (psychic warrior means wisdom, not int)
fighter just for lots of feat fun is fine though, and beguiler, shadowcaster, wizard, etc all work of course. If it's high powered beyond the assumption gestalt implies, then you probably want to get reflex saves & a high skill point per level base for the other class.
Still, from what you were thinking, a psion seems the best for youLast edited by CE DM; 2021-02-23 at 03:20 PM.
-
2021-02-24, 11:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2015
- Location
- Alamogordo
- Gender
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
In a Duskblade Gestalt, if PrCs are allowed, I'd say Wizard or other Int-caster would be the best option. PrC into Enlightened Fist to pick up Hold Ray and now you've got two great spell lists and some great rays and touch spells for shenanigans. That's what would be, in my mind, optimal.
What I would actually play is different though. Probably Wizard on one end but PrC into Swiftblade9 on the Wizard side so you can get Perpetual Options and Full Attack Channeling. It's less efficient and loses you three caster levels, but Perpetual Options is just sooooo good.Characters I've enjoyed playing for more than four sessions:
Falgar the Swiftblade
Revain Sumeth, Whip Fighter Extraordinaire
Malvin Firel, Cleric of Corellon, Destroyer of Undeath
Vongur Dorent, Primeval Champion of Poverty
In defense of the Vow of Poverty
-
2021-02-24, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
- Gender
-
2021-02-24, 01:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
-
2021-02-24, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2013
- Gender
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
The guidelines under creating new spells specifically say to not do what you said, though:
Wizards and sorcerers should not cast healing spells, but they should have the best offensive spells. If the spell is flashy or dramatic, it should probably be a wizard/sorcerer spell.If any idiot ever tells you that life would be meaningless without death, Hyperion recommends killing them!
-
2021-02-24, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2019
-
2021-02-25, 10:15 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2016
- Location
- No Longer The Frostfell
-
2021-02-25, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2017
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
I think a Warmage fits really well. With a dex and int focus, enough cha to cast. Could weapon finesse for melee and still be able to throw spells at range effectively. This setup utilizes the full range of spells and class features of both classes. For feats I'd not try to specialize, just pick up good individual ones like knowledge devotion.
-
2021-02-25, 05:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- NYC
- Gender
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
I want you to PEACH me as hard as you can.
-
2021-02-25, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
- Location
- Vancouver, BC, Canada
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
With good skills and skill points and a spell list covering options not on the Duskblade list, including non combat options, I think Duskblade and beguiller would mesh well.
-
2021-03-02, 02:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Gender
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
Arcane Channeling gets better the more attacks you make so to that end how about Totemist? You could also try and swing Shadow Pounce
-
2021-03-03, 03:47 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- UK
- Gender
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
I don't think that works. Arcane channelling is only good with multiple attacks with the same weapon (once you get the full-round channel ability). Totemists' multiple attacks tend to be with a lot of different weapons (because they are usually natural attacks) which means a maximum of one of them can channel the spell.
-
2021-03-03, 09:31 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Gender
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
At 13th level, you can cast any touch spell you know as part of a full attack action, and the spell affects each target you hit in melee combat that round. Doing so discharges the spell at the end of the round, in the case of a touch spell that would otherwise last longer than 1 round.
-
2021-03-03, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
- Location
- UK
- Gender
-
2021-03-03, 07:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Gender
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
To be fair, by that reading the spell would only affect every target once no matter how many times they got smacked, so maybe getting that many extra attacks isn't actually going to be that useful.
-
2021-03-03, 07:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- NYC
- Gender
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
With some kind of Reach, you might be able to distribute a single spell to a lot of enemies.
But yeah focus-fire is not the point of that feature.
Something like the Arcane Strike feat has better synergy with a lot of natural weapons, and that does support focus-fire.I want you to PEACH me as hard as you can.
-
2021-03-03, 11:18 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2016
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
Extended Signature with Links to all my build showcases in the forum
My latest build showcases:
Gaive'Ur, the last Eldritch Knight of Bane (✝)
PACMAN, the Southern Beholder Mage (accelerated spell progression + double 9s)
Optimus Urbana Hierophantus - a Mobile Suit Gundam / Mech / Transformers build
Orko, He-man & Battlecat (a Dragonfire Mount's Ubermount and its Ubermount)
Giant Dwarf, the Rock Superstar (a War Chanter build)
-
2021-03-05, 07:26 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2010
- Location
- London, EU
- Gender
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
Wizard, Cleric or Druid obviously — but I'd be tempted to go Beguiler.
Well more precisely Rogue 1 / Beguiler 4 / Unseen Seer 10
This gives you more skill points, 5d6 sneak, good Will saves and more spells of a type you are missing.
You can fill the Rogue role and have high level spells - albeit of a limited type.
Beguiler has a lot of utility spells which are generally useful and plenty of slots to burn on Arcane strike.π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
Completely Dysfunctional Handbook
Warped Druid Handbook
Avatar by Caravaggio
-
2021-03-05, 03:37 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2013
- Gender
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
I'm rusty on my RAW, but could you use Arcane Channelling when you use a Maneuver? If so, duskblade//warblade (or "Duskwarblade" for short) could make a really nice gish!
-
2021-03-05, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2010
- Gender
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
basic arcane channeling takes its own standard action, while the 13th level one piggybacks off of a full attack action, which is relevant to some maneuvers (like time stands still)
Even if they couldnt use any strikes though, boosts, counters and stances can still be a good enough benefit to consider. That's how people make ToB archers work
-
2021-03-05, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2018
- Location
- Colorado
- Gender
Re: What is the best choice for the other side of gestalt for a duskblade
Hmm I am vaguely intrigued to try a Dervish build on the other side but Dervish Dance does say "a dervish cannot use skills or abilities that involve concentration or require her to remain still, such as Move Silently, Hide, or Search." so I think that means casting a touch attack spell is out? Granted a duskblade does not require using the concentration skill to cast touch spells in combat so might be able to swing it not sure.
What do people think could you Dervish Dance while Arcane channeling (full attack)? If so I am thinking something along the lines of Fighter 2/ swordsage 2/Warblade 1/Dervish10/Blade Dancer 5 on the other side...